Charlie Beck Jim McDonnell Los Angeles Mayor

2015 Crime Spikes

TOO SOON TO TELL WHAT’S BEHIND HIGHER CRIME RATES AND WHETHER WE HAVE REACHED THE END OF THE DOWNWARD CRIME TREND

Homicide and crime rates appear to be on the rise across the country, but there is much debate over what’s behind the shift, both at the local and national levels.

In LA last month, there were 39 homicides, an August number that has not been matched since 2007. And the murder rate from January until now is 7% higher than it was last year. South L.A.’s 77th Division has been hit the hardest, with 43 homicides so far this year. And violent crime jumped 20% during the first six months of 2015 in LA in comparison to the the first half of 2014.

The LA Times’ Kate Mather and Nicole Santa Cruz have more on the numbers. Here’s a clip:

Until now, Los Angeles had avoided the rise in killings reported by other large cities around the country this year. Homicides in Washington, D.C., have already reached the level experienced during all of 2014. Killings are up 20% in Chicago and 7% in New York compared with the same periods last year.

Richard Rosenfeld, a criminologist at the University of Missouri-St. Louis, said it’s difficult to know what is driving the increases. He noted that some argue that police behavior has become less aggressive in a large number of cities in the face of increased public scrutiny over how officers use force. Another theory, he said, is that the rise in crime is tied to expanding heroin markets.

“It’s going to take some time to figure this out,” he said.

Despite the uptick, the homicide rates in Los Angeles and other cities are far lower than in decades past. The number of killings in L.A. peaked in 1992, when the city saw 1,092 homicides. Last year, the figure was 260.

LAPD Chief Charlie Beck noted earlier this week that homicides in the city had been down this year until August, which he described as a “horrible month.”

“You can’t draw huge conclusions over one month,” Beck told the Police Commission on Tuesday. “But the month of August hopefully does not portend what will occur during the following months of the year.”

LA County Sheriff Jim McDonnell and others have blamed the county’s higher crime rates (although McDonnell did not mention homicides) on the passage and implementation of Prop 47—which reclassified certain low-level felonies as misdemeanors.

And during LA Mayor Eric Garcetti’s State of the City address in April, he announced a new elite metro unit would patrol crime hotspots in response to a rise in violent crime rates during the first part of 2015 in Los Angeles.

The NY Times’ Monica Davey and Mitch Smith take a look at the national homicide trends and what law enforcement and crime experts are pointing to as contributing factors, including “a growing willingness among disenchanted young men in poor neighborhoods to use violence to settle ordinary disputes.” Here’s a clip:

Rivalries among organized street gangs, often over drug turf, and the availability of guns are cited as major factors in some cities, including Chicago. But more commonly, many top police officials say they are seeing a growing willingness among disenchanted young men in poor neighborhoods to use violence to settle ordinary disputes.

“Maintaining one’s status and credibility and honor, if you will, within that peer community is literally a matter of life and death,” Milwaukee’s police chief, Edward A. Flynn, said. “And that’s coupled with a very harsh reality, which is the mental calculation of those who live in that strata that it is more dangerous to get caught without their gun than to get caught with their gun.”

The results have often been devastating. Tamiko Holmes, a mother of five, has lost two of her nearly grown children in apparently unrelated shootings in the last eight months. In January, a daughter, 20, was shot to death during a robbery at a birthday party at a Days Inn. Six months later, the authorities called again: Her only son, 19, had been shot in the head in a car — a killing for which the police are still searching for a motive and a suspect.

Ms. Holmes said she recently persuaded her remaining teenage daughters to move away from Milwaukee with her, but not before one of them, 17, was wounded in a shooting while riding in a car.

“The violence was nothing like this before,” said Ms. Holmes, 38, who grew up in Milwaukee. “What’s changed is the streets and the laws and the parents. It’s become a mess and a struggle.”

Urban bloodshed — as well as the overall violent crime rate — remains far below the peaks of the late 1980s and early ’90s, and criminologists say it is too early to draw broad conclusions from the recent numbers.

[SNIP]

In New Orleans, Michael S. Harrison, the police superintendent, said the city’s rise in homicides did not appear to reflect any increase in gang violence or robberies of strangers, but rather involved killings inside homes and cars by people who know their victims — particularly difficult crimes to predict or prevent.

“That is not a situation that can be solved by policing,” Superintendent Harrison said. “It speaks to a culture of violence deeply ingrained into a community — a segment of the population where people are resolving their problems in a violent way.”

In New York, there have been a larger number of gang-related killings, Stephen Davis, the department’s top spokesman, said. But he also said many homicides remained unexplained, the result of disputes with murky origins. “There are a lot of murders that happen in the spur of the moment,” Mr. Davis said.

In eight years as police chief in Milwaukee, Chief Flynn seemed to have brought the pace of murders under control. After a high of 165 in 1991, killings had dipped significantly.

“We thought we were having an impact,” Chief Flynn said. But as murders have multiplied in recent months — a death in a suspected drug house, a roommate beaten to death, a teenager shot at a kitchen table — Chief Flynn sounds far less certain. “I don’t even want to hazard what pace we’re on right now.”

(The Atlantic’s Ta-Nehisi Coates slams the NY Times story for their vague and problematic inclusion of the “Ferguson effect” as a possible contributor.)

The Brennan Center for Justice’s Matthew Friedman suggests that despite the recent rise in crime rates, the US is still in the midst of a larger downward crime trend.

In an op-ed for CNN, UC Irvine criminology, law, and society professor, George Tita, says that while it is too early to tell whether the short-term numbers in LA and other cities are indicative of a long-term uptick in homicide and violent crime rates, we have come a long way from the incredible gun violence of the 80’s and 90’s.

Tita goes on to say that there’s a good chance that the surge in LA, which LAPD Chief Charlie Beck has attributed to a gang feud, will be a “one-time blip.” Here’s a clip:

For those cities not already doing so, then it is time they got ahead of the recent trends in violence and revisit the kind of interventions that proved so effective in the past. Doing so would also not just help with the immediate issue of rising crime levels and gun violence, but would also offer an opportunity in the “post-Ferguson” world to bring together the community and police to help repair what appears to be growing distrust between both parties.

More specifically, the collection and utilization of data has generally resulted in more effective policing, and can be used to help stem the current rises in violent crime.

Larger police departments routinely use data-driven “predictive policing” analytics to allocate resources to emerging crime “hot spots.” Similarly, social network analysis is being employed to better understand relationships among individuals or between rival gang factions, while police are increasingly able to quickly find out about “minor” incidents between individuals from human intelligence sources and monitor or even intervene in a situation before it explodes into lethal violence.

It is because of such data that Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck, for example, can determine that the very recent surge in violence is concentrated in a particular part of town and that it involves a long-standing feud between particular gangs, and react accordingly.

So long as the community continues to be invited to the table in South Los Angeles, the latest surge in violence should just be a one-time blip.

A final reason for optimism is that from the limited data available, a key element that would be cause for particular concern seems to be missing — there doesn’t seem to be what social scientists term an “agent of contagion” to the recent spate of violence.

During the previous epidemic of violence, open-air crack cocaine markets proliferated; cities that had little or no history with urban street gangs now found themselves dealing with young people identifying themselves as “Crips” or “Bloods;” and every kid, it seemed, had access to a firearm.

So while 25 years ago we were dealing with a youth-gun homicide epidemic, this time it’s not clear that young people are the most susceptible population. In fact, a quick look at the homicide report maintained by the Los Angeles Times for the months of July and August shows that while African-American and Latino males remain overrepresented among victims, the average age of the victims is 37.

52 Comments

  • I submit an additional reason for the spike in crime: This is what society has sowed. Society as a whole has made it abundantly clear that they do not want a law enforcement force that actively pursues or prevents crime at the lowest level before it grows into a substantial problem. Society has morphed into a court of public opinion is based on youtube videos and constantly justifies unlawful behavior. They would rather see cops jump roping, dancing or hugging kittens. While the current leadership climate that sides with and makes excuses for this lawlessness, one has to ask why any officer or deputy would subject themselves to a society who uses facebook as barometer as to what is justified or not. Perhaps U.S. law enforcement is starting to reach that tipping point where they just don’t care. Just take the paper and clean up the mess afterwards….

  • Take AB109, Prop 47, keep police forces artificially low, reduce the number of prison and jail beds, while at the same time have the private sector pursue a global economy at the expense of our workforce. What else to expect but a rise in crime, which will continue upwards until we reach a new equilibrium.

  • #2….. So you see that Pink Elephant in the room that every so called leader refuses to address? Thank God, I thought I was the only one!!!

  • “A growing willingness among disenchanted young men in poor neighborhoods to use violence to settle ordinary disputes” that’s what law enforcement and crime experts have come up with? They just discovered this? I mean wasn’t this the theme of “West Side Story”? Of course these knuckleheads are not to be out done by the always popular “it’s not a problem that can be solved by policing” systemic culture blah blah blah , in other words , nothing can be done about it by anyone ever. Why doesn’t anyone talk about the stuff that was done just prior to the big crime collapse that until very recently we were all enjoying. You know like three strikes and broken windows policing? No no these experts tell us, that couldn’t have had anything to do with it. Narrative triumphs again.

  • Nicobar,
    It always does, until it doesn’t anymore.
    NYC was a cesspool in the 70’s and early 80’s. Until even the progressives admitted something had to be done. They decided they wouldn’t stand in the way of aggressive policing. Enter Broken Windows policing and a crackdown on criminals. But the progressives just can’t stand prosperity, so it’s already rapidly going back to the shithole it was under the current mayor’s leadership.
    The gang banging, drive-bys and drug dealing was out of control in LA in the late 70’s thru the mid 80’s. Until even the progressives admitted something had to be done. They decided they wouldn’t ‘t stand in the way of aggressive policing. Enter “Operation Hammer” and a crackdown on criminals. Once again, the progressives can’t stand prosperity and they get Prop 47 passed. Then they wring their hands over the crime rate spiking.
    Was there ever any doubt that they wouldn’t be ready to own the reality that their do-gooder bullshit idea is turning out to be a disaster? That they were wrong? No my friend. They won’t ever own it. They’ll wait until the shit is out of control again, and then scream that the cops need to do something about the out of control crime.
    The cycle continues. Always has. Always will.

  • Although now happily retired, I’ve been through this cycle a few times. The liberal Progressive political movement of California and other states have liberald their way into the judiciary and judicial system at the detriment of the foolish public. Their progressive ideology and fantasy world have come full circle AND they now own it. As stated above, the bullshit propositions and political will call for more failed “programs” and early releases coupled with smaller jails. Hypercritical bullshit progressive movements such as Hands up, don’t shoot and Black lives matter, etc have forced a “fuck them all” attitude by those assigned to patrol and other front line units. Hook and book, shake and bake, rip and strip…….. Those days are gone. Roll to the 245 JO call, take the report and go home. Fuck ’em, they got what the want. Just take care of the good folks, they deserve nothing less. I feel so sorry for you guys in patrol but it’s not your fault. Political punks inside LASD and in government, they will throw you under the bus just like Baltimore. And this comes from a guy who worked hard, very hard. One who made rank and maintained high standards and was proud to be a part of LASD. And now I’m ashamed of what I have read on this blog as referred to as the Baca/Tanaka Crime Family. Now I say, the progressive movement has what they wanted and again, they own it. You guys just stay safe, take care of the good folks out there and go home at night. Screw the rest.

  • Oh well, I tend to agree with most of your positions, but you took one too far. “Once again, the progressives can’t stand prosperity and they get Prop 47 passed.” I have no doubt that the sentiment behind Prop 47’s passing was due to the political inclinations of the California electorate. I’m not sure where you get the idea that “progressives,” whatever straw-man that may be for you, do not like prosperity. Do you have evidence of this?

    The groundwork for the passage of Prop 47, AB109, and all recent developments in the criminal justice system were carefully laid out back in the 70’s and 80’s, when politicians of all stripes were tripping over each other to see who could appear to be tougher on crime. Lock ’em up and throw away the key was the motto, which worked great for a while. Reality set in, prison overcrowding, deteriorating conditions, skyrocketing costs, consent decrees, and an electorate no longer willing to pick up the tab for the whole thing.

    If we do the math, I’m pretty sure conservative voters everywhere jumped on the “tough on crime” bandwagon, but it turns out they never bothered to look at the cost. Until now, of course. Do you want to pay more taxes to maintain a higher state prison count? The same political philosophy cops everywhere firmly believe in, while ridiculing liberalism, progressivism, Democrats, leftists, statists, is the same political philosophy that supports pension reform and killing YOUR defined benefit plans. Conservatism believes in right to work, hates unions, and loves 401K’s and anything Wall Street can get their paws on. So unionized progressive bashers, pick your poison carefully.

    Decry progressives as you wish, but realize the bigger picture is far more complex. You are ultimately supporting that which will work arduously against your own self-interest. There are elements of both conservatism and liberalism that are needed to make everything work, the key is balance.

  • LATBG,
    “Can’t stand prosperity” is simply a euphemism I use when somebody messes with a good thing.
    You know, like when a politician says: “America is the greatest country in the history of the world”.
    Then begins the tasks of fundamentally transforming it.

    Now to address your “progressives”, whatever straw-man that may be for you” comment.
    Do you think many conservatives voted for passage of Prop. 47? Would you estimate that the bulk of the votes in favor of 47 were from self-admitted progressives who are proud to proclaim themselves as such? Is CA recognized as and proud to proclaim itself as a progressive state? You claim I’m using a “straw-man” to make my point? Really?
    The electorate of CA decided they didn’t want dopers put in jail. Now the electorate will be the victims of those crimes they committ (when they otherwise would have been incarcerated) to support their drug use. Herein is where the euphemism “can’t stand prosperity” comes in. It’s simply a reference to wrong-headed decisions that the electorate will have voter’s remorse about.
    I thought it was a given, common knowledge, that 99.9 % of the humans on the planet wish to prosper. I didn’t realize imy statement would be taken literally.
    Think of it like this. The Dodgers are in first place. Then the manager decides to mess around with the line-up a little too much and they blow their lead in the standings. If somebody asked me my opinion on that I would say: “Mattingly just couldn’t stand prosperity “. Of course I realize he wasn’t trying to cause the Dodgers to lose games.
    I hope I’ve explained it sufficiently.

    The other stuff, the pensions etc. etc. is a discussion for another day. The topic was the spiking crime rate.

  • Way to go LATBG. I’m sure that a reply/response will be nil from “Oh Well”

    Blaming progressives and the left for all America’s ills is akin to those who use and abuse the race card.

    The proof and validity of facts are oft miles behind their skewed opinion. When called out on it……they do a huhbubada, huhbubada, huhbubada.

  • Watching the lap dogs of Celeste always gives me a good chuckle. I love the “race card” comment from Second That Says but isn’t it amazing how these prog lightweights can throw up these simplistic comebacks but never accompany them with facts. Easy enough when you look at spiking crime rates, especially murder rates, in major cities around the nation to see what’s taking place but do the progs really want a fact based conversation as to who the culprits are….I don’t think so.

  • Sure Fire, I laid out some facts, and have a lot more if you want to compare notes. I believe everyone shares in the blame, to borrow your language, “progs” and “cons,” and the issue of rising crime rates is pretty complex to say the least.

    You have the floor, and the undivided attention of lowly lap dogs everywhere…

  • Funny how California is more talk than walk when it comes to crime and punishment along with politics & public assistance.

    Why wouldn’t opportunistic people (with positive & negative intentions) flock to this state, considering the state that it’s in. All this even before Prop 47●AB109.

    The blame game is more dominant than any action.

  • Following this blog a long time. Trust me in that, the never changing rants of Surefire does not want to throw non-facts to LATBG. Period.

  • @16. I and many others are looking forward to #15.”Surefire’s” editorial.

    It should be stellar story time. Anxiously waiting…… Yawn

  • Rising crime rates are simple lap dog and for Chicago Fire he’ll love it, it’s the same as it’s been for years for the same reasons add a wrinkle or two. First, here’s the murder rates in some big cities this year all are increases…Milwaukee 76%, St. Louis 60%, Baltimore 56%, Washington 44% and D.C. 22%. Now I won’t even mention what’s happening here as we know the numbers but anyone thinking AB109 and Prop 47 aren’t culprits need only talk to some street cops and some AB109 team members to find out from those who know. Maybe Celeste with all her connections should ride with a compliance team and see what these “low level” offenders are up to. The controlling offenses some of these guys are let out on are simply not to be believed. Part of the reason for Why the rise now is so high is because we’ve had no support, not one bit from this administration or DOJ, in fact the exact opposite and it goes not only to what you’re seeing on the streets but at the border as well. Those murder spikes, what community you think they’re hitting the most, that’s right the Black community in the inner city and how often have you heard Obama talk on that, or did you hear Holder talk on it as compared to the problem with cops? Now add to the unfortunate traditional problem of the lack of Black male role models in that same area and boom, ripe for what’s going on now and it won’t go better for some time, sad. But as a White guy, I’m supposed to pretend it’s something else ain’t that right Chicago Fire? Now I know it’s all about the big boggeyman in the room according to LATBG, prison overcrowding, as to why we’re in part of this mess but the releases were short sighted and never should have happened, not ever. It was because of us conservatives wanting people to go to jail for longer stretches than you libs wanted them to stay there and that cost money. I would pay whatever it cost to keep real bad guys in jail as I believe the first duty of government is to keep the populace safe, guess some of you don’t. I also feel they should be given the bare minimum while there to sustain themselves, save lots of money that way, though I like the idea of further education and job training. See, I’m not a total heathen. But I know I’m talking to a bunch of people who don’t talk to the same people I do every day who have been curtailed in their jobs by this administration and I’m talking to people here who probably post about that clerk refusing to give wedding licences out but are ok with city officials breaking Federal Law by ordering their law enforcement officials under their Sanctuary City policies to not turn over criminal illegals to the legal authorities and people get butchered. So there you go, have at it.

  • @ 20. Other than the mini-stats provided by google, I’m reminded of the song by Morris Albert……”Feelings”

  • And another murdered cop is what I wake up to this morning with another Black suspect. Sorry folks but no getting away from the new reality that many young Blacks are out to kill cops and sites like this will never write about it.

  • To Surefire: Ironic that you pop up with info on selected deaths of LEO’s who are killed by black suspects and not other suspects who kill cops. Did you forget the following? . … Charles Gliniewicz on 9-1- 15./ Louisiana State Trooper Steven Vincent 8-24-15 or Deputy Carl Howell (Carson City Nevada) 8-15-15.
    By calling out black suspects instead of all suspects, you are no better than the racist radicals who hate Cops.

    Fortunately most Cops don’t think like you. Any death of any Cop is bad, regardless of the race of the suspect. I have no love for any Cop killer nor do I have love for Racist Cops. All Cop killers go into the same trash bag.

  • Second That,
    Re: your comment in #13
    I know right? The conservatives who got Prop 47 passed are to blame for the spiking crime rate in CA, right? Everybody knows how conservatives in CA. carry so much weight, right? The blame needs to be equally spread around, because CA is not controlled by progressives, right?
    Your comment is a PERFECT example of how progressives refuse to own their bullshit. Lol.
    You can blame the problems in Texas on conservatives, but you can’t blame the problems in CA on liberals, right?
    Thanks for making my point for me.

  • @ Another Cop.
    Surefire sounds like a misfire who slipped through the cracks. Fortunately he doesn’t represent the majority of good cops who protect America’s cities.

  • You’re missing the point in an attempt to label me a racist or purposely burying your head in the sand because the facts don’t support you. You’re just another, like the social do gooders, leftists and such that don’t want anyone to point out that Blacks are murdering cops at a tremendously higher rate than anyone might imagine when you look at their percentage of the population. How dare a White guy point that out and wonder why over the last decade it’s been at about 40-45% and now it’s sitting around 70%. That cops were thrown under the bus by Obama and Holder more than once and certainly after Ferguson plays into it according to cops of all colors that I know but they aren’t shills like you. I hate all bad guys and you have no standing at all dude calling me a racist, nobody here does and it won’t stop me.

  • That you close your eyes to what’s going on speaks to your own lack of awareness, hope it doesn’t cost if you really are a cop. As for most cops not thinking like me, you’re either monumentally stupid or a liar. They don’t come here and speak up, but my brothers and sisters are aware of what’s going on out there and trust me they’re aware of all types of threats, not blind to any.

  • @Surefire: Deputy Dwight Maness of McHenry County S.O. died this evening from earlier shooting by a white man Scott B.Peters. You won’t mention that as it shows your ignorance.

    To every other cop the only thing that matters is that fellow brother in arms died today by a cop killer. He could have been a green martian. It does not matter. I hope you learned something today.

  • Surefire: The Washington Post published an article regarding police officers killed in the line of duty dated 01/09/15. The information was collected from FBI statistics. Between 1980-2013 2,269 officers were killed in “felonious incidents”. 52% of the suspects were white. 41% were black. African Americans represent approx. 13% of the population. Enough said!

  • Another cop: Yes, it is sad whenever a police officer is killed regardless of the race of the suspect. Yet, African Americans disproportionately injure and kill police officers relative to their population. Any thoughts regarding this phenomenon or are you just going to continue labeling people racist who voice a different opinion then yours?

  • Be a good little lemming but the stats don’t lie and hiding them is what the weak do. Speaking the truth never makes one a racist and you’re a fool if you think so.

  • No stats will come from you shills, nope. Check out the thug who murdered Trooper Ponder because that’s what this administration has spawned and plenty more like him have tried but thankfully failed. I’m out.

  • @22, you are absolutely correct, and we all can thank nobama for that. He is destroying this great Country.

  • Sure fire, I understand what you previously meant. I actually heard nobama say that the cops are bad for pulling over people of color, and he went on to say poor young black men getting pulled over by police for no reason. He said these things at the church where all those innocent people got shot because they were black by the young white guy, Roff. He made comments like that more than once, I heard him on one of the news channels. Nobama purposely knows what he was doing when he made those comments and look at the results. A lot of cops getting killed by blacks and other races.

  • At 36) This is “Oh Well’s” life. KIA. ( Know It All ) Remember him in the Academy…….always first to raise his hand. LOL.

  • Wow, I left for a while and came back to this article to see all kinds of rants going all over the place. In honor of the notion that facts speak louder than unsubstantiated rants, try these for size:

    According to US DOJ statistics, which remain fairly consistent year to year, blacks account for 51% of all violent crime in America, yet account for only 12.5% of the population. There is no hiding that elephant in the room, it’s really, really, really bad on so many levels. If we adjust for gender, the disparity is even worse.

    An offshoot of the Black Lives Matter crowd, calling themselves #FYF9/11, for fuck your flag, is now trying to incite blacks to lynch whites, kill cops, and burn flags, not necessarily in that order. More bad news, hopefully more attention-seeking than action.

    Surefire, we don’t live in an alternate universe where we can ignore facts on the ground. Incapacitating bad guys by locking them up forever works only to the point the entire population is willing to pay the tab. Just because you may want to pay doesn’t mean your fellow conservative who is not a cop will. He may say you get paid too much, pension liabilities, you know the drill.

    Now this is where law enforcement leaders everywhere blew it: they failed to sound the alarm and move against Prop 47 when there was time. Part of the reason it passed was because of a false narrative that succeeded in convincing voters that our prisons were stuffed with nonviolent offenders serving time for drugs or property crimes.

    We, and I mean all of us, failed to educate the voters that all of our felony laws for narcotics and theft are mere tools to keep the really bad guys off the streets and out of the public’s way. The press ran with the nonviolent offender lie because it aligned with their liberal philosophy, notwithstanding the fact that it had absolutely nothing to do with reality. Our sentencing guidelines and county jail overcrowding prior to AB109 and Prop 47 had already weeded out the lightweights we don’t believe are threats.

    Intheknow, to honor your namesake, when you claim our duly elected president is destroying our country, you need to lay out why you believe so. I can point out that Obama didn’t crater the economy, causing the Great Recession, and he didn’t invade the wrong country either, further destabilizing a bad situation. He did put his foot in his mouth in the Trayvon Martin case and the Boston PD case that led to the beer summit. After that, it appears he learned his lesson, and really didn’t comment on other cases, but the damage was done in the eyes of an unforgiving conservative echo chamber.

    The false narrative from the Ferguson case has done a lot of damage, creating mistrust where it shouldn’t exist. Now everything we do is second-guessed. As long as the media and the BLM crowd ignore the elephant in the room, that 51% stat, they will never understand why so many young black men are on the receiving end of the criminal justice system.

  • 40, nobama has gone to other countries putting down America. No other president has done that. He sides with our enimies, he’s a muslim. He sides with Iran, our enimies Should I go on? He has repeatedly put down law enforcement for doing their job claiming racial profiling. I must have hurt your feelings for speaking the truth on your brother.

  • I love your facts in addition to the few “ranting rednecks” who love to hate you. It is what it is. Good, Bad, Indifference.

  • Intheknow, did you hit all the Glenn Beck talking points? You forgot he’s a socialist and was born in Kenya in some twisted, subversive plot to take over the country and hand it to Al Qaeda. I can’t help you with your grasp on reality.

    Obama, like all presidents, has done his share of good and bad things. My guess is his net sum will be in the positive, in spite of Mitch McConnell’s best efforts.

    This may be slightly off topic, but our problems in the Mideast date back to the Eisenhower administration, when we decided to depose Iran’s democratically elected leader and install a puppet leader. That was not our finer moment, and it continues to haunt us to this day.

    Intheknow, these things are called facts, which carry more weight in a debate than wild unsubstantiated accusations. In response to your question of whether or not you should go, on the answer lies in how much more you are willing to embarrass yourself.

  • Wow, talk about moronic and head up ass…Bandwagon you take the cake. I wrote of this year the figure being at 70% where it had been between 40-45% the last decade, look at post #27 and you think you caught me in a lie? Try reading everything I posted before you put your foot in that big mouth of yours, geez.

  • Bandwagon is a old-ass geezer who still uses his hard copy collection of “Britannica Encyclopedia” for his outdated version of statistics. Give the old fart a break. LMAO

  • Surefire: WTF are you talking about? My post substantiates that blacks disproportionately attack and kill police relative to their population. I think that was your original post. Also, my post to another cop was in response to him labeling you a racist for voicing your opinion. If I need to explain this any further, give Celeste your phone number and I will call you. Talk about head up ass!

  • Laughing: Do your parents know you and Sure Fire are in the basement on their computer? Try reading your parents version of “Britannica Encyclopedia” you might learn something!

  • So much talk of police being attacked, I wonder whats the compairison of the number of cops that died this year compared to the number of death by officers by the lapd… then comparing the number of OIS with the OIG reports, seems like the MCJ should build a floor for officers that shoot and beat innocent people and stomp on their rights.

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