Health Care

Barney Frank and Town Hall-ista Chat About Health Care

August 19, 2009
by Celeste Fremon
48 Comments

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In case you haven’t see it. (I don’t believe there is any comment needed.)

Okay, well, maybe a few comments.

Here’s from NPR.

The LA Times.

The AtlanticWire.

James Wolcott at Vanity Fair.

Atlantic/Marc Ambinder: “Barney Frank And The Inglourious Basterds”

The Wa-Po.

Atlanta Journal Constitution.

NPR, Part 2.

AND….Newsbusters, which has a slightly different take, but a must read.

48 Comments

  • Yeah, the arrogant, elitist Democratic leadership across the nation are really smart insulting their voters or running from them.

    In fairness, you should have posted other questions to Frank and other Democrats – questions of real concern and asked in sincerity by constituents who were insulted or ignored by the Democrats.

    Here’s a better clip: Slobbering Barney Frank Frank’s estrogen was really flowing.

    It’s a good thing that questions have been asked that the Democrats didn’t want to answer. It’s kept a bad bill from becoming an act.

    How about the clip where slobbering Barney blames the war in Iraq on not having health care? That has nothing to do with this debate or the bill.

  • Well scrubbed ingenue, sunglasses artfully placed on her crown, obviously droning out a party line from her puppetmasters from where? Dartmouth, Mass!! Puhhh-leeeze.

  • Thanks for the Fox News clip Wood. I pretty much watch them exclusively. Tonight at 7 the Fox Network is showing a two-hour special “Octomom the incredible unseen footage”. All us lead-free astro turfers will be watching with baited breath.

  • Astroturfers, Gava Joe? Exactly what do you call those paid activists that ACORN, the unions, and the Democrats parade around chanting slogans over issues that they don’t understand? They’re like spread manure on every ball field in this country.

    At least the people protesting this stupid health care bill are grassroots people concerned about their freedom and our nation rather than how much they can loot from the taxpayers.

    But, who really is spending the most money on this issue? What group is real and who are paid hacks?

    <a href=”http://reason.com/blog/show/135530.html…advocates of a bigger government role in health care are outspending opponents by more than 5 to 1. The advocates include not only the Democratic National Committee and left-liberal groups such as MoveOn.org but formerly evil special interests such as the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America and “a coalition of drug companies, doctors, for-profit hospitals and union members” operating under the astroturfy name Americans for Stable Quality Care.

    That doesn’t count all the free publicity given to Obama’s half-cocked plan by the mainstream, but out-of-the-mainstream, media.

    It must drive liberals crazy that conservatives are actually taking a stand…and, that Sarah Palin had the Democrats denying that they were trying to kill grandma.

    I bet that you don’t know this particular tidbit that was passed on to me. While Karl Rove was working in the White House he was still drawing checks from a consulting firm employed by the pharmaceutical lobby. What do you think of that? Well, actually it’s David Axelrod, so turn off the outrage and go back to making fun of protesters. (Where is CNN and the NYT on that?)

    Also, did you know that the Obama as the Joker poster that caused outrage to liberals (unlike a similar poster of
    Bush) and for which they blamed a “hate-centered hysterical right” was actually created by a supporter of Dennis Kucinich. Did TIME or Newsweek tell you that? Did you know that the question of Obama’s birth certificate was started and pushed by a Hillary Clinton supporter?

    If you’re not watching FOX News, then you’re missing a major segment of truthful information that the liberal media refuses to cover and are missing what mainstream Americans really believe — unlike Celeste’s one-sided posts.

    Liberals, who never had brains for practical matters, consider everyone who doesn’t agree with them to be the names that reg uses. Thank goodness there are always conservatives around to fix their backfired schemes.

    And, thank goodness that people like Barney Frank, who inspire Celeste and other liberals, are actually losing the debate.

    Of course, the fight hasn’t been fair. Barney Frank never read the bill before he supported it and still hasn’t. To him, reading the bill must be like reading a dining room table.

  • That woman is crazy, paranoid and out of touch with reality for refering to Obama as a Nazi, she is a crazy conservative republican

    We all know the Nazis are the republicans like Bush and Cheney !!! The republicans who are vile xenophobes are now threating the lives and safety of minorities especially mexican immigrants are the real Nazis.

    The currrent culture of hate and racism that is fueled by white republicans are dividing this country and have made this country more dangerous than Nazi Germany under Hitler.

    I don’t even feel safe in Highalnd Park with so the recent influx of whites moving into East Los Angeles. The whites are gentrifying the area and forcing the mexican immigrants out of Los Angeles, we have no place to go.

  • I’m not supporting that woman, who was a miniscule part of protests across the nation. I do oppose, though, the arrogance of Democrats in demonizing the voters and saying that they will vote against the interests of the people in their districts. (The latter is why Max Cleland was tossed by Georgia voters. He represented the Democratic Party rather than the eight million residents at that time.)

  • Celeste, your update of comments from selected sources show that you have a a very narrow and left-wing biased reading list. I’m surprised that it didn’t include comments from the Topanga Poetry Club.

  • Comments from Woody’s email inbox:

    Let me get this straight.

    Obama’s health care plan will be written by a committee whose head says he doesn’t understand it,
    passed by a Congress that hasn’t read it,
    signed by a president who smokes,
    funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes,
    overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and
    financed by a country that is nearly broke.

    What possibly could go wrong?

  • Damn! You mean I left the Topanga Poetry Club out???

    Woody, I actually knew you would make exactly that comment. (Not about Topanga, but about the sources. I didn’t see conservative sources comment on that, but I looked quickly. They posted the other video, the one you linked.)

    But, hey, now wait a minute! I did included the AJC!

    Okay, I just went back and did a new search and now there are some more sources up. So-o-ooooo I have, right this very minute, also included Newsbusters. Ta-da! Only for you, Woody.

  • The thing that’s amazing about this is that Lyndon Larouche’s supporters are blending in quite comfortably with the rhetoric and hysteria generated by “mainstream” crazies like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. This “liberal fascist” line – complete with a pictue of Hitler as smiley face – originated with a “respected” columnist at National Review, who also for some strange reason appears in the LA Times.

    Palin put the obscene “Death Panel” rhetoric in play and people like Woody actually believe that Obama is a fascist (as was FDR in the revisionist histor of this particular LaLaLand.) The difference between Woody’s perverse politics – or Palin or Michelle Bachman or Glenn Beck – and Lyndon LaRouche’s crazies is one of degree. And it appears slight! This pathology – obsessively clinging to a fixed ideology that conveniently compensates one’s own dysfunctions, locked in by the petty narcissism of closed minds -isn’t terribly uncommon. FOX has created an entire cable network that feeds these types. Limbaugh is the King – he actually praised this LaRouche crazy for showing up with her sign.

    LaRouche is just using this upsurge of hysterical disaffection as an opportunity to do what he always does, which is recruit for his cult. But LaRouche, while insane, has a good sense of smell. Unfortunately, the GOP base is a perfect place to find folks who will actually read his paranoiac tracts and to pick off the kinds of losers and unhinged that join conspiratorial cults. In fact, it’s getting close to simply being one itself.

  • Celeste – the proper response to Woody’s claim that you only have left-wing links is that he’s either deliberatly promoting his own hobby-horse politics by lying about the character of these news outlets or he’s so dim he doesn’t know what “left-wing” means. The only link you had up that could even remotely be construed as “leftwing” is James Wolcott, and he’s not very “left”, just snarky. The rest range from centrist to moderately liberal. Anyone who considers the Washington Post “leftwing” knows absolutely nothing about either Beltway politics or journalism.

    Not a single one of your links is even close to being “left” in any ideological sense or implication of “unfair-unbalanced” as NewsBusters or FOX obviously are in their pure and narrow Rightwing content. Had you linked even to Media Matters, he might have had some small point. Woody fantasizes that the perspective of FOX is “what ordinary Americans believe.” This is simply false – which isn’t my opinion but a fact – and to feed his fantasy world isn’t helping anybody. Not even him.

  • reg the Stalinist: Woody fantasizes that the perspective of FOX is “what ordinary Americans believe.” This is simply false – which isn’t my opinion but a fact….

    Fact about the news mainstream Americans prefer:

    NIELSEN MEDIA RESEARCH: BASIC CABLE NETWORK RANKINGS FOR WEEK OF: 08/10/2009-08/16/2009

    Last week we reported on Fox News Channel’s primetime programs putting up huge numbers — three nights in a row beating CNN, MSNBC, CNBC and HLN combined in both Total Viewers and the A25-54 demo.

    Well now the cable news rankings are out and Fox News was the second most-watched basic cable channel in primetime last week, only behind USA. FNC was 5th overall in Total Day viewership.

    MSNBC was 24th in primetime and 32nd in Total Day. CNN ranked 26th in prime and 23rd in Total Day.

    Meanwhile, “The Glenn Beck Program”, which airs out of primetime at 5pmET, had its highest rated week ever among Households (1,907,000) and Total Viewers (2,409,000), and second best week in the A25-54 demo (682,000).

    Beck was #2 in his time period in both Total Viewers and the demo in all of cable last week, behind NICK, and beating his cable news competition combined in Total Viewers and the demo.

    The Democrats were the ones watching NICK.

    reg is nuts…”which isn’t my opinion but a fact.”

  • Here’s reg the Stalinist’s “centrist” media….

    MSNBC: Protester of Obamacare has automatic weapon; therefore, everyone at protest is a racist.

    Unseen: Video footage of protester edited by MSNBC to hide that protester is black.

    More accurate news:

    “Both parties understand that the current system is broken,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters Monday. “But what we can’t seem to agree upon is how to best keep it broken, while still ensuring that no elected official takes any political risk whatsoever. It’s a very complicated issue.”

  • That Woody comes out screaming “Stalinist” repeatedly is further evidence that he’s as crazy as the LaRouche cult. And the notion that TV ratings prove that “most Americans’ agree with FOX News’ politics is bizarre. (Like there was this election…)

  • We can argue about bias until the cows come home, but it’s much harder to argue that Fox News does a good job of informing it’s viewers. According to PEW, people who get their news from Fox are worse informed than any other population except those who get their news from network morning shows. That doesn’t mean watching conservative programming indicates lack of basic knowledge – O’Reilly and Limbaugh do very well – only that Fox News specifically does a very poor job of informing it’s viewers.

    http://people-press.org/report/319/public-knowledge-of-current-affairs-little-changed-by-news-and-information-revolutions

  • “We can argue about bias until the cows come home” but it’s not an argument worth having when FOX puts the words “Conservative Bloggers” on-screen as it’s source for some or another assertion of “fact.” It really happened this week. And it’s part of a pattern of almost ridiculous bias among FOX “news”-casters (although not all – Shepard Smith is pretty decent.) I guess we can argue whether the moon is made of green cheese too, if the rightwing bias of FOX is considered to be in question.

  • reg, do you like Barney Frank because he’s a left-wing socialist or because he’s gay?

    The election was over almost ten months ago, and people are now seeing with their own eyes what some of us, not the liberal MSM, were warning them about during the campaign — Obama is on the far left and is not qualified to be President. It’s because of this understanding that people have learned which news source you can really trust. There’s a new election occuring in the minds of citizens, and they are now voting with their Nielsen’s and advertising dollars and trusting FOX.

    The fact that you embrace a totalitarian central government and use Stalinist tactics to attack people who consider you and the Left to be Stalinist disciples is evidence that you are such.

    – – –

    Further reading:

    Karl Marx Is ‘Back in Vogue,’ NYT Book Reviewer Enthuses

    New York Times book critic Dwight Garner on Wednesday enthused over a new biography of Friedrich Engels, cooing that Marxism is “back in vogue” and adding that the founding communist comes across as a “jovial man of outsize appetites” in Tristram Hunt’s new biography “Marx’s General.”

    Garner opened the review by insisting that decrying capitalism is now hip again: “Thanks to globalism’s discontents and the financial crisis that has spread across the planet, Karl Marx and his analysis of capitalism’s dark, wormy side are back in vogue.”

    Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler : The Age of Social Catastrophe by Robert Gellately

    Arguing that the tragedies endured by Europe were inextricably linked through the dictatorships of Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler, Gellately explains how the pursuit of their “utopian” ideals turned into dystopian nightmares.

    Obama’s Socialist Revolution: Old Wine in Ancient Casks

    In his book The New World Order, published in 1940, Fabian socialist H.G. Wells explained in clear terms the Fabian’s plan to implement the New World Order through psychological warfare techniques against the peoples of the world.

    …So, according to Wells, world socialism is unavoidable, but it has to be implemented through a revolution, or, by what he calls the “revolution conspiracy” in which a number of people set about organizing the forces of discomfort and resentment and loosening the grip of the government’s forces, in order to bring about a fundamental change of the system

    To Wells, those who deny “the urgent desirability of world collectivization,” are not sane. This is just a step from creating the concept of “globophobia”…. Like in Stalin’s times, globophobe kooks, that is, mentally deranged people who oppose socialism and globalization, should be committed to mental institutions for treatment and re-education.

    As many American have suspected, and by this time may have confirmed, Obama is an uneducated, incompetent, …arrogant fool.

    …Now, I don’t think most Americans have any doubt whatsoever that we are experiencing the incremental implementation of a socialist revolution in this country. But, what type of socialist revolution is this? Is Obama’s revolution fascist or communist?

    The answer is not an easy one. Both fascism and communism are extreme forms of socialism favored by the Left.

    …Therefore, calling communo-fascist the system the CFR conspirators are trying to implement through their puppet Obama is closer to the truth than calling it just fascist or communist. Actually, there is an old name for this new type of political system: it is called the New World Order.

    Is the country getting “crazier” or is reg stuck in a false utopia?

  • That last comment pretty much stands on it’s own as an example of extremist nonsense and total psycho-political dysfunction. There’s noting quite like Woody speaking for himself to prove he’s scraping the bottom of the barrel, intellectually and politically. The fact that he’s a snarling little bigot just adds to any sane person’s sense of disgust.

    Rave on, TrollBoy !!!

  • Is it more unacceptable and offensive to serially brand someone like me a “Stalinist” who “embraces totalitarian” government (forget the “gay” slurs for a minute) or to call someone who makes outrageous charges like that a “fucking moron” or a “piece of shit?”

    Honest question. I’d like to hear what people think…

  • Incidentally, it’s just been reconfirmed by SurveyUSA, following on a WallSt.Journal poll in June, that three-quarters of Americans support a public option choice in health care reform. So Woody’s notion that FOX News represents the views of “mainstream America” is patently ridiculous.

    (Incidentally, I think FOX grabs a lot of viewers because they have established an entertainment quotient, irrespective of the crap they’re peddling as “news.” A lot of people watch it for the same reason they love those early tryouts on American Idol, WWF or for that matter The View. I think this is supported by the fact that the top “non-Fox” cable news show is Olberman, which I happen to think is a terrible news show but can be fun to watch if you’re in the mood for narcissistic huffing, puffing and finger-pointing, a la Bill O’Reilly but with a less toxic worldview. Watching Glenn Beck is akin to a paranoid’s version of PeeWee’s Playhouse, the guy is so obviously screwball and unable to transcend his clownish roots in stand-up comedy and the kind of weak character prone to his former drug addiction and cultish religious conversion.)

  • Personal insults are all you have, reg? Of course. Personal destruction is out of the Stalinist playbook.

    – – –

    reg: Incidentally, it’s just been reconfirmed by SurveyUSA, following on a WallSt.Journal poll in June, that three-quarters of Americans support a public option choice in health care reform.

    What a joke of a “reconfirmation” poll of June, while the rest of the surveys are showing growing dissatisfaction with Obama’s plan.

    People are abandoning Obama’s forced control as they discover what’s in the bill that the Democrats didn’t disclose. If Americans really want a “government option” (killing private options) so much, why did Obama drop that as a condition for signing a bill?

    Americans who want a government plan, want it out of misguided compassion for those without coverage — not for themselves. But, only 13% of the poeple in YOUR poll didn’t have a plan! The rest want to be left alone. Nice try.

    Here’s a better one.

    Rasumussen Poll: 08/11/2009

    Public support for the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats has fallen to a new low as just 42% of U.S. voters now favor the plan. That’s down five points from two weeks ago and down eight points from six weeks ago.

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that opposition to the plan has increased to 53%, up nine points since late June.

    More significantly, 44% of voters strongly oppose the health care reform effort versus 26% who strongly favor it. Intensity has been stronger among opponents of the plan since the debate began.

    …The latest polls shows that 26% of voters believe that passage of the Congressional health care plan will lead to a better quality of health care. But most voters (51%) disagree and say the quality will get worse. Seventeen percent (17%) expect it to stay the same.

    …Fifty-one percent (51%) of all voters say the cost of health care will go up if the reform proposal passes. Nineteen percent (19%) say costs will go down, and 21% say they will stay the same.

    When it comes to health care decisions, 51% of voters fear the federal government more than private insurance companies. But 41% fear the insurance companies more.

    Yet only 25% agree with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that health insurance companies are “villains.”

    While Congress has debated reforms to the U.S. health care system, Americans have begun to show greater confidence in it. Forty-eight percent (48%) of adults now say the health care system is good or excellent, and only 19% say it’s poor.

    …Thirty-two percent (32%) favor a single-payer health care system where the federal government provides coverage for everyone, but 57% are opposed to a single-payer plan.

    It’s been nice debating with you reg. You never win.

  • i loved obama’s false info on health care saying doctors are making 30,000 to 50,000 dollars for cutting of someones foot when they are lucky to get 3,000 dollars for that surgery.

  • This is sad. I know he’s talking to a conservative audience here, but can’t he just say that there are problems with people coming here illegally but I don’t believe in letting them die untreated if they should get ill?

    OBAMA: I’d be happy to. First of all, you mentioned illegal immigrants. This has been an example of just pure misinformation out there. None of the bills that have been voted on in Congress, and none of the proposals coming out of the White House propose giving coverage to illegal immigrants — none of them. That has never been on the table; nobody has discussed it. So everybody who is listening out there, when you start hearing that somehow this is all designed to provide health insurance to illegal immigrants, that is simply not true and has never been the case.

    SMERCONISH: What is their fate, if I might ask? Because there’s a 1986 law on the book that says if you show up at an ER, you’ve got to be treated.

    OBAMA: Well, that will continue because we don’t want a situation in which some child, even if they’re an illegal immigrant, shows up in an emergency room with tuberculosis and nobody is giving them treatment, and then they’re going back to the playground and playing next to our kids.

  • I’m an idiot. The next sentence is:

    So I think there is a basic standard of decency where if somebody is in a death situation or a severe illness, that we’re going to provide them emergency care.

  • The truth is – and this has been well-reported – that when people are actually given the content of the health care plan land asked about specific proposals, the support for it grows dramatically. The fact that three-quarters of Americans want a public option choice, in competition with the private insurers, is proof of this. Woody relies on ignorance – as does a third-rate polling outfit like Rasmussen, which has about the worst record of any polling group out there and, of course, is run by Republicans.

    But keep “winnng” these discussioins in the dark recesses of your delusions. Frankly, when you pull out that putrid “Stalinist” shit you prove that you’re as crazy as Lyndon LaRouche.

  • Incidentally, the lowest polling numbers on health care right now are “confidence in the Republicans” regarding health care reform. It’s below 30%, so while these clowns have been able to blow smoke, generate hysteria, lie and obfuscate in this debate, they haven’t convinced anyone other than wingnuts to take them seriously on any policy issues. We’re going to win this and Woody will be looked back on like Ronald Reagan bloviating against Medicare back in the ’60s as government tyranny. Prepare to have your ass kicked, Woody. You’re not worth debating, but we WILL kick your sorry ass politically. Get ready !

  • Sorry, reg. We’ve already moved on.

    You can’t even get a health care bill passed with a Democratic President and a filibuster proof Democratic Congress. You Leftists just can’t accept responsibility and you blame others for your problems.

    On the polls, how do you expect the American public to give intelligent answers on a bill that the Democrats haven’t read themselves and that contains much vague wording? The best answer is to say that the bill is confusing and has a lot of problems, so nothing should be done until its settled or scuttled.

  • Please define “decent.” Surely, it’s everything that Obama promised. No?

    Too late. Obama’s already conceded. Now, the radical liberals are ganging up on him.

    Obama blames a “vast right-wing conspiracy.” Where have we heard that before?

    Where’s he going to get the money for his plan? An independent analysis figures that the cost will be even twice what even the Presidential intimidated CBO said.

    A plan “decent” to you isn’t even affordable.

  • I’m waiting for Limbaugh to introduce his plan for “prescription drugs”:

    “Don’t you have a maid who can go cut a deal in a parking lot ?”

  • I have nasty suspicion that if Woody watched the Daily Show episode with Betsy McCaughy’s “interview” by Jon Stewart last night he would not only come away firm in the belief that McCaughy knew what she was talking about but that she had “won” the argument.

    I’d actually put money on that. as evidence of how disconnected from reality he is.

  • It appears, incidentally, that McCaughey – who has set some of the biggest lies in motion against health care reform, including “Death Panels” – was asked today to resign from the medical technology company she works for because she looked like a total fool and totally discredited herself and her arguments.

  • she looked like a total fool and totally discredited herself and her arguments.

    thats how i feel after reading your comments, no offense but i have not witnessed you beating woody in one argument.i am sure there is one out there but not that i have seen lately.

  • “james” –

    First of all, I’m not the childish narcissist bleating about “winning arguments” – but if his screaming “Stalinst” really impressed you – or his absurd trash comment #22 strikes you as choherent, you’re as daft as he is. Frankly I don’t know what “argument” has been proposed in this thread by Woody that doesn’t call into questioin whether he’s is even remotely sane.

    Here are some of his “arguments”
    1) I’m a “Stalinst”
    2) Obama is the puppet of “communo-fascists”
    3) The Washington Post is “leftwing”
    4) FOX News represents the views of most “mainstream Americans”
    5) Barney Frank doesn’t know what’s in the health care bill
    6) People “abandon” Obama’s reforms when they find out more about them (this has been totally disproven in comparative polling- unless “finding out more” means what’s printed on Palin’s facebook page or Betsey McCaughey’s ravings ).

    Further, It’s not very important, but my point about the Rasmussen poll he loves to link to is a simple matter of fact – it’s GOP-biased and almost always the least accurate poll, discounted by folks who create “poll-of-polls” averaging.

    But you are more than welcome to buy into Woody’s litany of lunacy and join him in the rubber room…

  • reg relies on polls about polls to discount a poll. Brilliant.

    Rasmussen asks questions correctly and has unbiased methodology.

    Comparing Approval Ratings From Different Polling Firms

    Some firms poll all adults while others, including Rasmussen Reports, base their results on likely voters.

    ACORN’s voters aren’t real people, and graveyards don’t have telephones, so Rasmussen misses them.

    An objective analysis: Why are ABC/Post & Rasmussen So Different?

    reg: People “abandon” Obama’s reforms when they find out more about them (this has been totally disproven in comparative polling

    What a laugh. Support for Obamacare dropped like an anchor when people started understanding it. The Democrats either didn’t read the bill or were trying to slip one by the public, particularly grandmas.

    The proposed bills are all fatally flawed. If support was there, a bill would have been passed by now.

  • More evidence of your persistent idiocy and ignorance there than I care to bother with.

    What’s important is that you’re losing and will go to your grave a raving, foul-mouthed old bigot…

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