Torture

What Will We Do About the Matter of Torture?

torture-memo

As the once-taciturn Dick Cheney gallops from cable news show to cable news show
yammering about how many American lives would have been lost if the Bush Administration hadn’t ditched its morals and its regard for international law in order to enhancedly interrogate, the discussion about what if anything will be done about said interrogating continues to heat up.

NOTE: I really, really, really hope the White House releases
all the paperwork that Cheney says he wants released.

UPDATE: It looks like at least some of that material is indeed going to be released in the not terribly distance future.


THE POLITICAL RISKS OF TORTURE HEARINGS

Sunday’s San Francisco Chronicle has a story that looks at the risks of having hearings on the Bush Administration’s interrogations policy—and the risks of not having them.

Of interest are the Chron’s couple of sidebars, one that details possible solutions to this political push-pull, and another that shows what California Dem politicians favor which torture probe solution.

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THE CRUELTY OF DENYING SLEEP

A front page article in Sunday’s LA Times talks extensively about how and why sleep deprivation, as an interrogation technique, is WAY creepier than we might have originally thought.

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LAWYERS WHO AUTHORIZED TORTURE DISGRACED THEIR PROFESSION

Over the weekend Ted Sorensen, former special counsel to US President John F. Kennedy, gave a commencement address at the University of Nebraska in which he said that the lawyers who authorized the use of enhanced interrogation techniques had “disgraced not only their country but their profession.”

And then the 81-year-old Sorenson really got irritated. Here’s just one small clip from the body of the speech:

One apologist for those mindless Justice Department opinions authorizing and justifying torture said by way of excuse: “Remember it was a time of high danger.”

High danger? Almost 47 years ago, the President of the United States
learned that the Soviet Union had suddenly, secretly rushed nuclear intermediate-range missiles onto the island of Cuba, 90 miles from our shores, with the apparent intent of using them for either nuclear obliteration or nuclear blackmail; and we entered a period that historians have subsequently called the most dangerous 13 days in the history of mankind. President Kennedy did not seek or claim extraordinary emergency legal authority. He did not order the imprisonment, much less the torture, of all Communists or Cubans in our country, nor have their telephones tapped without a warrant. Mindful of international law, he took America’s case to the United Nations and the Organization of American States, and he redesigned a proposed blockade of Cuba into quarantine against offensive weapons, carefully balancing deterrence and defense with dialogue and diplomacy, thereby avoiding both nuclear war and a diminution of our security or our adherence to international law.

There’s more here in Jurist.

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Earlier in the week, Jurist reported on Judiciary Committee chair, Patrick Lehey’s renewed call for a bi-partisan “Truth Commission.”

“I know some people say let’s turn the page,” said Lehey. “Frankly, I’d like to read the page before we turn it.”

Yep. A lot of us feel that way. In fact we deem it essential for the health of the country.

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PS: I hope that all of you who are mothers, have mothers, or know mothers had a delight-filled day yesterday. I had a wonderful day with my brilliant and handsome son, (plus his terrific girlfriend and a couple of happily beach-going dogs).

Torture was not discussed at all.

33 Comments

  • Just to make it short for those others who really, really want to get in the first words…comparing Russian missile bases in Cuba to Islamic terrorist threats is as about as stupid as a writer can get.

  • If Congress is really interested in torture, they should actually pass and Anti-Torture Law criminalizing anyone (including congressman or senates) who participates in authorizes or sanctions the use of ANY ENHANCED INTEROGATION techniques and Extreme Renditions.

    Anything else is just puffery. Let the Democrats put their votes where their mouths are flapping.

  • A few that should be debated:
    – Healthcare Reform
    – Jobs and Economy
    – Energy Independence
    – Education (Science and Math)
    – Infrastructure (Sewers, Water, Roads, …)
    – Water Supply (Desalination)

  • “comparing Russian missile bases in Cuba to Islamic terrorist threats is as about as stupid as a writer can get”

    Yeah, cuz those missles could have actually wiped us out and apparently Castro and Che didn’t give a shit about retaliation. The other guys can’t even come close…

  • Unfortunately for folks who think Islamic terrorists are a bigger threat than the Soviet nuclear arsenal was, I can’t suggest any place where Depends are on sale right now.

  • I’m supportive of Pokey’s suggestion, that we criminalize authorization of any type of torture. Of course we’ll need some very good authors to make certain to list everything that counts as torture so that nobody can later say, oh, whattya mean we were waterboarding? We used coke. That’s not waterboarding. It’s cokeboarding. And that’s legal. We have it approved by lawyers as an “improved truth-making device.”

  • More seriously, I really don’t get how anybody can claim keeping some one shackled and awake for 11 days isn’t torture. I mean imagine that for a moment. 11 days is an incredibly long time.

  • reg, I throw you in with the stupid people, too. Very stupid. Your knee was jerking a mile-a-minute when you jumped to attack me without thinking.

    Playing political gamesmanship with a foreign government on the other side of the globe that has borders and diplomatic relations and direct communications with us, has a uniformed army, and leaders who were scared to death of retaliation by our nuclear might is VERY DIFFERENT than the strategies and risks of dealing with unseen and unknown Islamic terrorists bent on the destruction of all Westerners, who have no uniformed army or borders, who walk unknown and plot in our midst, have no fear of retaliation, and consider suicide murders as an honor, etc., etc.

    I’d rather fight a conventional war than one against terrorists. We could not destroy North Vietnamese guerrilla fighters, and the Soviet Union couldn’t defeat Afghan tribes themselves. As evidence of a greater threat, the Soviet Union never attacked our homeland and never killed thousands of our innocent citizens in NYC and other places, as did the terrorists.

    We knew what the Russians were doing. Now, thanks to guys like you, we can’t find out what the terrorists are planning.

    People like you and Obama, who don’t take terrorism seriously enough and enjoy jokes about 9-11, are more of a danger to our nation than Russia.

    You truly are pathetic and stupid.

  • “a uniformed army” – do you mean like Klaus Fuchs ?

    You’re dimwittery is showing…nothing new.

  • reg, you’re an idiot. No, I mean a uniformed army like Al-Qaeda.

    Spies, like Fuchs and the Rosenbergs, should be executed rather than coddled, as you would like for Islamic terrorists. (Your side defended the Rosenbergs for decades, too, and were proven – yes, proven – wrong.)

    But, we know that the left celebrated Fuchs just as much as they celebrate denigrating our nation at every chance. You apparently don’t have a problem with attacks on our soil. Why don’t you go enjoy your 9-11 jokes along with Obama?

    You’re such a loser.

  • The point, since you’re too fucking stupid to get it, is that there were Soviet agents who arguably were involved in plots that did more potential harm to the ability of the US to maintain military superiority and defenses against much bigger threats, i.e. the Soviet nuclear arsenal. Why wouldn’t it have made as much sense to torture them to find out what we could about accomplices and spy rings ?

    The reality is that you’re showing your ass – you’ll argue any side of a question in order to maintain your hack “I lived in George Bush’s Ass” approach to politics.

  • Also too fucking bad you didn’t alert Reagan to the fact that the Soviets in Afghanistan were less of a danger than the Islamic fanatics that he armed and assisted…

    Your deep thinking on this question is impressive.

  • Here’s something not that unlikely to be in the news soon…

    Several groups of terrorists, launching from Pakistan, cause mass civilian casualties in India – Mumbai but with more explosives.

    India’s government, already under strong pressure as a result of Mumbai, starts moving its forces into an aggressive posture, as the population demands revenge.

    Pakistan moves its nuclear weapons from storage to hidden locations. One of the nuclear weapons convoys is ambushed by Taliban and Al Qaeda (with the help of sympathizers in the Pak army). A weapon is stolen.

    Al Qaeda claims it is going to detonate it in the US soon, but doesn’t say where.

    We capture a high ranking Al Qaeda guy in Pakistan.

    let your imagination run…

    And before you say this is fantasy, check out Stratfor’s analysis.

  • reg projecting – The reality is that you’re showing your ass – you’ll argue any side of a question in order to maintain your hack “I lived in George Bush’s Barack Hussein Obama’s Ass” approach to politics.

    reg, you are a total idiot in regards to our secruity policies under Reagan. Perhaps you have some problem with FDR accepting Stalin as an ally that you could share with us…or, probably not.

    It’s amazing that waterboarding has been credited for obtaining information to halt attacks against the U.S. and waterboarding has been successful in obtaining information for centuries and throughout the world…but, reg and Sam Stein don’t believe it, so we’re expected to throw away historical facty and accept what they say. Psycho.

    Now, shut-up reg, and go look for spies.

    reg goes undercover

  • Hopefully, in such an event, that high ranking Al Qaeda guy won’t be interrogated by people as stupid as you are.

  • That last comment was for Moore.

    Woody – the view from Dick Cheney’s ass isn’t something that interests me. You sound more like a moronic, hysterical little punk with each post.

  • reg,if you know so much more than Dick Cheney, then why are you living in substandard housing in Oakland rather than holding high office in Washington? Your view of yourself is greatly exaggerated above reality. Our view of your pathetic existence and bloated ego is on target. Get lost.

  • reg, I know your type. You couldn’t achieve, so you blame everyone else and society rather than take personal responsibility. You’re a pathetic loser.

    Now, here is what I wrote that sent you into a hissy fit:

    …comparing Russian missile bases in Cuba to Islamic terrorist threats is as about as stupid as a writer can get.

    The two are DIFFERENT. That comment didn’t say which was worse, but you went all over creation in a feeble attempt to “win” an argument. You failed miserably, just as you have your entire life.

  • Punk? And, you’re telling me to grow up?

    Such a silly slap from an effeminate guy unable to meet his own needs and who blames everyone else for his problems.

    reg, the best way to describe your serial tirades and temper tantrums is with the term that I used — hissy fit.

    If the shoe fits, where it.

    You jumped in here itching for a fight over nothing about what Celeste wrote, and you couldn’t stand up to the challenge. Why don’t you spend the day shopping with the girls and cool down?

  • Damn, it’s a LUV connection … you two crack me up. I expect to find out one day that you’re actually the same person with two accounts …

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