This is how it always happens. There is a high profile killing of a kid whose death breaks our hearts and we put pressure on lawmakers to Do Something to ease our collective pain and rage. In reaction to this pressure, bad laws are passed and loathsome state initiatives are voted into being.
The death of Polly Klass produced California’s Three Strikes law The cocaine-triggered death of University of Maryland basketball star Len Bias produced the mandatory mimimums and the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986, and resulted in the filling of our prisons.
And now we have the searing heartbreak of the death of high school football star Jamiel Shaw–which has stimulated as a brand new push to make his death feel less horrible, less pointless, less painful……by taking a giant, irrational chunk out of Special Order 40.
It seems that the gang member who allegedly killed Jamiel was a 19-year undocumented Central American who had been brought to the US as a toddler, joined the 18th Street gang as an adolescent, then got himself locked up a weapons charge. When the time came fror his release, the LA Country jail officials, rather than turning him over to the Feds for deportation as Federal law demands, they simply let him let him out—no immigration checks, no nothing.
Now Jamiel’s family, wants the City Council to pass as a “modification” of Special Order 40 that would allow police to question anyone who is a gang member and then to turn them over to INS.
Today, council member Dennis Zine, who usually is a bit more sensible than most, will introduce this badly thought out motion to the city council.
So lets see….how exactly would this work? If the cops run into a 15 year old wanabee who has committed no crime but whom an officer or two thinks might be a gang member do they get to turn them over to INS? Will they turn over their mothers, dads, and younger sisters too, or just the 15 year old?
And who gets to decide who is a gang member? Will we use Cal Gang as our arbiter—nevermind that the gang database that is known for its howling inaccuracies?
We have a federal law on the books that, had it been enforced, would have resulted in the deportation of the screwed up young man who took Jamiel Shaw’s life away. We don’t need poorly conceived amendments that will usher in a host of unintended consequences (as poorly conceived out laws and the like always do).
But, hey, why be logical?
Of course, what we really need is comprehensive gang prevention and intervention programs. (Not to harp on this issue.)
Maybe if we tried harder with prevention and intervention we could have saved both Jamiel Shaw and his killer.
No one gets detained for deportion proceedings until two things happens.
1- They are adults
2- They have to commit a felony and get convicted for it.
Once you meet the above criteria then being a documented gang member and getting deportated is considered Sugar Frosting on the cake.
This is what has been in happening in Los Angeles. There are too many gang murders of kids every year, now this high profile killing of Jamiel Shaw, whose death breaks our hearts, has motivated the courageous Shaw family to put pressure on lawmakers to do something to ease our collective pain and rage. In reaction to this pressure, hopefully laws are passed and voted into being. After the killing of 14-year-old daughter Cheryl Green her death was swept under the rug with the rest of the bodies, one of Cheryl’s killers was also an illegal immigrant gangster who also stabbed a witness over 80 times and slit his throat ear to ear.
The death of Polly Klass produced California’s Three Strikes law. You can be certain that the criminals tried and convicted for three felonies did not get caught and tried for each of his crimes. This law has put many career criminals who were continually being arrested and released only to continue their chosen life of crime.
And now we have the searing heartbreak of the death of high school football star Jamiel Shaw–which has stimulated as a brand new push to make his death feel less horrible, less pointless, less painful……by taking a giant, irrational chunk out of Special Order 40.
The gang member who allegedly killed Jamiel was a 19-year illegal immigrant Central American who had been brought to the US as a kid, joined the 18th Street gang as an adolescent, and then got himself locked up on a weapons charge. When the time came for his release, the LA Country jail officials, rather than turning him over to the Feds for deportation as Federal law demands, they simply let him let him outâ€â€no immigration checks, no nothing. But even if he were deported he would be right back because we don’t enforce immigration laws or secure our borders.
Now Jamiel’s family, wants the City Council to pass a “modification†of Special Order 40 that would allow police to question anyone who is a gang member and then to turn them over to INS. This will reduce gangs faster than any anti-gang program run by our incompetent Mayor.
Today, council member Dennis Zine, who usually is usually more sensible than most, will introduce this motion to the city council. Of course the Mayor, Reyes, Huizar, Alarcon and Cardenas will oppose this measure as they prefer to defend the right of illegal immigrants than worry about all the daily senseless gang violence plaguing the city of Los Angeles. This reduction of gang members will also help improve our failing LAUD schools, which are also plagued by gangs.
So let’s see….how exactly would this work? If the cops run into a know gang member who has not yet been caught, tried and convicted for the crimes he must commit to prove his loyalty to the gang and prove he is a good and loyal soldado (soldier), he will be turned over to INS/Ice agents.
Of course our local politicians will play the race card, but hey, why be logical?
Of course, we also need a comprehensive gang prevention and intervention program but the reality is we also need to take other steps to reduce the gangs in our communities and schools. The history of previous gang prevention and intervention programs has shown us not to expect any noticeable results.
You guys amaze me. You just can’t stand the thought of illegals (not undocumented) not being deported. Then, you attack the state for doing a job that the Feds aren’t doing. State and local governments can’t always wait for Washington, and they shouldn’t be attacked for trying to solve their own problems in a way that they see best for them.
I messed up. Take out the second “not” in the second sentence above. You know what I meant.
Exactly my point, Poplock. That’s the existing law. So why do we need this modification of Special Order 40?
(Although, in fairness, even the modification may include only adults. In fact, now that you mention it, I’m going to find out.)
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Dear editor,
I hope you also corrected my typos. Late last night I certainly needed a good copy editor.
I was wondering when you would mention this. I heard they were trying to do this and was disappointed, but not surprised. Reactionary, as opposed to pro-active, legislation like this is par for the course. Perhaps the worst part, and I hope this doesn’t sound insensitive or presumptuous, is that the Shaw family probably had nothing to do with this and is being taken advantage of by the anti-immigration vultures that would have never given a thought to the Shaw family otherwise.
Maybe this is too cynical….maybe the Shaws came up with this idea on their own…maybe it doesn’t matter either way.
Hi, by the way! It’s Zach, your former student from UCI. I love your work here.
What is Zach saying” The blacks folks ain’t smart enouf to knows that a illegal alieen gang purson, from 18th street be killing there son?
I can’t gauge how smart or savvy the Shaws are just from watching the snippets of interviews I’ve seen–their race has nothing to do with it–but I can speak to the voraciousness of the border control nuts who want to build a wall around the country and patrol the deserts. Because I don’t underestimate them MORE than I know anything about the Shaws, I have a hunch about who approached who. Either way, their son is still dead and the danger here is that more rhetoric and focus will be hurled at immigration policy (a federal, arduous, and ridiculously complex issue) than at the acute crisis of local gang violence. Everyone loses.
What about the voraciousness of the illegal immigrant pandering nuts of Villaraigosa, Huizar, Reyes and Alarcon who want to build a free flowing immigration freeway between Mexico and California. What the is “magic” number of immigrants which California can afford? Approx 25% of L.A. county jail inmates are illegal immigants , Baca has asked for more ICE/ICE agents to process inmates as well as more federal money for years. How many more poor students do we need to add to the already miserable failure that is the LAUSD? How many more free patients can the county hospitals serve?
What percentage of gang membership is made up of illegal immigrants? How many MS-13, 18th st and Florencia-13 gang members are illegal immigrants, how many deported gang members have returned across that wall around our country?
As Poplock said there are no immigrant kids, being held for deporation if if they have been to CYA many times, such as Pedro Espinoza.
myfoxla.com/blogs/John_Schwada/
“The failure to spot Espinoza was particularly troubling because of his extensive history of criminal activity. In May 2004 he was arrested for burglary and given a three-year term in a CYA facility. While in CYA, Espinoza was convicted twice of attacking CYA staff and a third time of assaulting a fellow inmate at the Eastlake Juvenile Center. Authorities also heard testimony late last year, in the Kronenthal Park matter, that Espinoza had been an 18th Street gangmember since he was 12.”
Lord save us from bleeding heart liberals! The conclusion of the editorial is, typically, that if we’d only spent more money on prevention and intervention, “we could have saved both Jamiel Shaw and his killer.” Espinoza was smuggled into the country as a toddler, was a gangmember since he was 12, had a long, long rap sheet (including attacking a couple of adults in juvie hall) and he’s exactly the kind we need to deport pronto.
We DON’T need to spend more billions on these people who are, along with their parents, nationals of another country. The “anchor babies” of illegals, like that Maria “Chata” Leon of Drew St./Glassell Park, who produced 13 of them to follow in her illustrious footsteps, produces enough “American citizen gangbangers” for us to deal with. With some 1/4 to 1/3 of our jails and prisons being filled with illegals cost us so much, that if they were sent back home, we’d have the money to treat the legal resident gangbangers and common criminals more humanely — since about 1/2 of them are either mentally ill or have substance abuse problems and need treatment. Schwarzeneggar wants anothe $7 billion to deal with the prison healthcare problem, and sending those like Espinoza back where they belong would help get a handle on our problem.
Of course, this would still leave us with the masterminds of LaEme, who are mostly “legal citizens,” and it’s undisputed that they control the hits on the street from their prison cells. They apparently gave Espinoza his marching orders to kill a black youth, as part of a war between 18th street and a black gang they mistook Jamiel for being part of by virtue of where he lived. So don’t worry, dear Bleeding Hearts, by deporting Espiniza and his ilk we’ll have plenty of gangbangers left to spent our money on. But putting the blame on US for not “fixing” him in the first place, is way off base — and contrary to the wishes of over 90% of the legal residents of this city, if you read all the blogs. (Okay, bring the tomatoes, the predictable group who comment on this blog except for Woody — who cares.)
(Sigh.) We have existing laws that allow us to deport Espinoza. They weren’t followed. How many times must this be stated.
Either you agree with Special Order 40 or you don’t. (And plenty don’t.) Why Special Order 40 is in place and is FAVORED by Bill Bratton and the LAPD has been documented ad nauseum elsewhere.
But if you DO happen to think Special Order 40 is more functional than it is destructive, than it behooves you to be against Zine’s motion, which while providing a nice emotional hit about “deporting all those gangbangers” is going to be a practical nightmare open to misuse and abuse.
Also, DZS, I recommend you stop reading articles that quote Tony Rafael wholesale. That way you’ll avoid seeing the EME behind every sad and screwed up action on the street.
To clarify, the war is between the 18th St. and black K Stones gang. Sorry, I’m not buying your denying that it’s a fiction to state the facts behind who’s controlling the hits in cases like this: Baca’s sheriffs have been more forthcoming about admitting the facts than the LAPD.
And, Celeste, fact is — as the pro-Villaraigosa L A Times even addressed in its article a few days ago — many L A cops didn’t know that they were even ALLOWED to ask for legal status when questioning a suspect for something else; this was considered “too politically volatile.” So it’s kind of hard to enforce the laws when not only were beat cops unaware of what they’re “allowed” to do, but were actively discouraged form doing so. Also, if you read today’s Daily News article on Zine’s motion, it quotes Sergio Diaz who oversees East L A, whose take on the issue is far different from Commander Moore of the West Valley division, where they’ve ID’d some 100 illegals for deportation. Sure, they all spout the official Bratton/ Mayor/ Mexican advocates line on the issue, but so what.
Ed Reyes and Bratton were made to look ridiculous on Lou Dobbs tonight a couple of nights ago (and the Mayor the following night), hanging themselves with their own words, that they couldn’t supporta repeal of SP40 because it would be “too politically divisive” and since there are so many illgals in L A, “our economy isn’t ready for this.” Dobbs looked about to barf, and did blanche — commented something along the lines of, “I can’t believe that man, that City Councilman from Los Angeles — Reyes — can stand there and say with a straight face, to a family grieving over a murder that should have been, could have been, prevented, that ‘our economy isn’t ready’ to do anything about it.” He expressed his loss of respect for Bratton, who’s losing the street cred he acquired in NYC over 9/11, and many feel this way. He blasesd everyone involved in L A’s governing process, as “being less than we’d like any of our elected officials to be.”
The following night, after interviewing the Mayor, Dobbs added that “this is the worst kind of political pandering to a special interest ethnic group” he’d ever seen. Between interviews like this, where these pols hang themselves by their own words, and even the L A Times article verifying that the cops are discouraged from KNOWING what they can do under SP40, let alone being encouraged to follow it (Zine just wants to make it CLEAR, he’s not changing anything), it’s impossible to argue that even the limited powers available to law enforcement under SP40 have been deliberately discouraged.
WHATEVER you think of Lou Dobbs — yeah, I know what that is on this blog — he speaks for the vast majority of Americans and Angelenos, across all socio-economic and ethnic lines.
From L A Times, “Ask and deport, family urges,” by Andrew Blankstein and Richard Winton (4/9):
“Special Order 40 has also been highly controversial and often misinterpreted. Many people, including some LAPD officers, believed the order completely prohibited asking about a person’s immigration status, which became an issue several years ago when the public began seeing an influx of Central American gang members who had previously been deported…”
So clearly, there’s been an attempt to mislead the cops into not enforcing immigration laws pertaining to suspects, and there’s also a total failure at the border to keep illegal criminals from coming back as soon as they’re deported.
Especially disturbing, “Sheriff’s Dept. spokesman Steve Whitman said that at the time of his previous arrest, Espinoza told the Culver City police and Sheriff’s officials that he was born in Los Angeles.” And that was it, they just believed him!
“Virginia Kice, a spokeswoman for ICE, said…Espinoza came to teh U. S. with his family at age 4…(but) determining the immigation status of suspects is difficult because there is no comprehensive database…” Clearly there needs to be pro-active sharing of info across all law enforcement depts in the nation, from local cops and Sheriffs to Border agents with known gangbangers like Espinoza — who were already in L A’s database of known gang members — being fingerprinted, photographed and otherwise ID’d so they can’t just claim there were born in the U.S.A. and befuddle ICE so easily!
The Culver City police should have had access to LA’s database at the time they jailed him, so they wouldn’t have been ignorant about his status along with ICE, and released him onto our streets to kill next day.
“Sterling ‘Ernie’ Norris, an attorney for Judicial Watch, one of the plaintiffs, said the Shaws’ proposal to identify illegal immigrant gang members at the point of their arrest doesn’t go far enough.
“Police aren’t taking the next step, which is when they pull somebody over to immediately check whether they are illegal through a thorough background check, and through their investigation at the scene,” Norris said in an interview.
“Special Order 40 essentially told them to shut up and not talk about illegal immigrants.”
This background check should include as a beginning, whether the driver has a legal driver’s license and insurance; if not, that is grounds for reporting them to ICE, as far as most Americans are concerned. The vast number of hit and runs and outstanding warrants for such, are by illegals, driving up our insurance exponentially. This makes them essentially operators of mega-ton killing machines which in any other context, would be considered the outrage it is. Americans and other foreigners are required to buy Mexican insurance at the border or else face jail and other penalties if they can’t pay for damages on the spot — even if they have a valid U. S. license and insurance. Same with hospitalization and other major expenditures.
Yes, I know the pro-illegal lobby is spinning furiously, and Tim Rutten has an editorial today supporting the don’t-ask- don’t-tell standard interpretation of SP40, and there was an unsigned editorial to that effect in the Times recently too, lobbying against Zine’s motion. But they’re not convincing anyone.
For a start, when Darryl Gates implemented SP40 in 1979, almost 30 years ago, there were very few illegals in the country from Mexico and Central America, and it was a majority white city where they felt intimidated. Even in 86 at the time of the last “last until we have border enforcement” amnesty, there were only a few million known illegals in the country. Now, there are more than that in L A County alone, some 20-30 million in the country. L A County is about half Hispanic, the children of immigrants make up 2/3 the youth population, 2/3 of LAUSD population, 2/3 of live births (mostly on Medi-Cal or uninsured), and 1/4-1/3 of the prison population. Etc. Etc… We’re in a radically different time and mindset now, where their Mexican leaders are very outspoken on their behalf, and have arguably created a political climate in this city where the tables are turned, and anyone who advocates to deport even the criminal element among illegals, is branded a racist.
That’s what’s happening to the Shaws, and it’s disgraceful. As was the performance of Councilman Richard Alarcon in City Council when they and their supporters appealed for Jamiel’s Law: before the Shaws had a chance to speak, clearly hoping to cut them off at the pass, Alarcon jumped up to declare the Shaws “misled” by divisive elements, and “certain radio talk show hosts,” like Kevin James/KRLA who was there, too.
Mr. Shaw clearly was responding to this when he insisted he wasn’t seeking racial division, but justice for his son, and eloquently explained why the laws weren’t working as they should. Anita Shaw was even feistier — too bad she had to return to Iraq, leaving Jamiel Shaw, Sr., on his own through this difficult time. Not only have their lost their son to a preventable murder, but they have to endure being called divisive, misled by racists, polarizing, and even racists themselves. Zine’s motion is a small measure in the right direction.
By the way: there’s talk that if the Council doesn’t support this, the Neighborhood Councils might use their newly acquired rights to put forth motions to do so themselves: it only takes two to agree, and there’s almost unanimous support for this all across the city.
Check out John Shwada’s story on Fox 11 News last night, 4/11, video of which features Baca himself warning black youth of racially motivated gang violence, and talking about jailed “shot callers” who are said to have put out the hit on a black member of the P Stone gang — where Shaw’s house was located.
As for Tony Rafael, he was one of the (very few) featured speakers at L A’s “International Summit on Gang Violence” last year (Feb. 07), listed as a “gang expert,” along with Chief Bratton, a rep for the Sheriff’s Dept. and a former gang member; he’s also referenced in a number of cops’ blogs, so I wouldn’t discount him so easily. And do you also dispute that “13” after a gang’s name, which occurs a lot, means loyalty to LaEME, as the “native” Mexican mafia and as such, all these immigrant gangs like MS13, Florencia13 (and 18th St.) must earn their confidence and trust? Apparently LaEME has felt a need to reinforce this chain of command recently, across town. (Diane Feinstein’s 2003 report on gangs notes that some 80% of these gangs are illegals, and per the Times piece quoted, Central Americans in recent years have tended to return soon as they’re deported, so stats are probably the same.)
Even to those of us far from East L A, gangs aren’t just “someone else’s problem:” gang graffiti has been appearing near Mulholland, on isolated and formerly pristine streets.
The fact is many Latinos born and raised in this city are tired of the illegals who have come to LA and made a mess of it. Downtown LA looks like a 3rd world country and the illegal vendors are making tax free CASH while hard working business owners who have permits, pay taxes and fees are losing their businesses because of the illegal vendors. Go into any emergency hospital room still open and all you see are illegals getting free medical care. Seniors who have medical insurance can’t even get in til weeks later, go figure. Our schools are over crowded with illegal parents kids. The mothers keeps getting pregnant to get free services. Now the gang issue has people finally opening their eyes to the illegals in this city. As long as you have idiots like the Mayor and council and senators who keep saying “its ok to break the law” this city will continue to go down the toliet
The death of Polly Klass produced California’s Three Strikes law
I always found the estrangement between Marc Klaas and his over their differences on this subject to be fascinating and rather sad.
Janet?
I have not meet those “Latinos” you are talking about.
What is “your” definition of a “Latino”?
Where can I find them and who do I call?
Dennis Zine Spokesman
You are a racist.
Your also one of the biggest cry baby bitches I’ve seen on a blog.
I wonder why the real victims have a differnt opinion than Celeste?
“Reign of Terror Cuts Down Life of College Student, Father mourns the loss of son and best friend”
http://www.lasentinel.net – Reign-of-Terror
“Terrorism in Los Angeles”
http://www.lasentinel.net/Terrorism-in-Los-Angeles.html
“Janet” is right: there happens to be a story in today’s LAT Cal section featuring exactly what she said, that shopkeepers who pay their taxes and go through the hoops to open a restaurant in East L A, showing Cesar Chavez Blvd., are angry about the food truck and illegal vendors undercutting their business.
It’s also true that many seniors on MediCal can’t get in to see a doctor without a long wait if at all, because many have stopped taking MediCare patients — their fees are capped, and the doctors and facilities often have too many unreimbursed patients already. All 11 County clinics are seriously in the red and on the verge of closing, as have many trauma centers. And when Hispanic immigrants, many illegal, make up 2/3 the school population and births, you can deny the stats all you want, but there they are. The school situation is probably worst for people forced to live in borderline areas like Janet claims to, but everyone in the city is fed up. Steve Lopez’ current article even admits the “enormous costs and challenges of illegal immigration” as pertains to the schools, and quotes Takofsky about how the middle and upper middle classes are up in arms that they’re getting less of their fair share for schools, because they’re expected to reach into their pockets to make up for being shorted on funding. So they’re hit twice, with a disproportionate share of taxes for all schools, and again with being forced to pay for any school upgrades or programs or teaching assistants themselves. As Lopez says about the illegals, “they’re here,” so what can you do, it’s a federal problem, yada-yada. But no one denies the “challenges.”
Calling everyone “racist” who points out facts as they see it on the street and statistical figures, just doesn’t cut it anymore. People are just too fed up to be intimidated.
As far as the put-upon middle class goes, the Mayor said in his speech tonight that “Los Angeles has the smallest middle class of any city in America.” And with the biggest illegal population of the city. So, we are essentially a third-world city of extremes, with the very wealthy who send their kids to expensive private schools (and some not so wealthy too), have a safety net for insurance and other financial concerns, and have money left over for $800 Manolos and $3000 bags. They’re generally liberal and shell out more tax money for fewer social services than they would in other cities, but they do it, but are pretty oblivious to the city around them until the problem starts to hit their neighborhoods — as it does now. The “rich” NC’s are angry, too.
About the only middle class left are those who have owned their homes for years and don’t want to be pushed out, and in the West Valley, where people come closest to getting back in city services what they’ve put in. And have just about the only decent schools left — albeit they’ve had to privately fund-raise for years. This attrition of middle class is continuing, even among those like two-income lawyer neighbors of mine who felt it was dumb to pay upwards of $40,000 for mediocre private school for two kids. The Mayor keeps saying he’s concerned about this, yet the city does nothing to stem the tide of illegal immigrants who aren’t able to make up for the declining tax base. These unfortunate realities are far from “racist.” What’s “racist” is whites or AA’s, or long-time legal Hispanic residents, being called racist for not being blindly PC as our city and state continues to hemorrhage, now that the real estate boom no longer puts a band-aid on the problem. Jamiel’s Law would at least put some resources back where they belong, and shame on those who tried to silence the Shaws.
From having excellent taste buds, I cruise around Boyle Heights and the Maravilla areas knowing which resturants and roach coaches are the best.
Just because your resturant sucks and the food taste like dog crap, doesn’t give you the right to go cry and bitch at pitbull Molina to close down those that make the big profits.
Whatever happened to Capitalism?
Again, sounds like you guys are starting to love dictorships.
The last time I looked, the majority that are benefiting from the Medical program (nation wide) are whites.
The last time I looked, the majority that use or abuse Medical are those that decided that saving money was equivalent to pissing in a pothole, those that failed to work, or those that decided that being poor cool and was a way to go in America.
The last time I looked, the majority that use or abuse Medical are those that decided that saving money was equivalent to pissing in a pothole, those that failed to work, or those that decided that being poor WAS cool and was a way to go in America.
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The West Valley?
The nasty sticky sweaty hot West Valley?
The nasty West Valley that hits Red on the air quality scale?
The nasty sticky sweaty smelly West Valley that houses apartments buildings like sardines?
The West Valley that is full of biker gangs and white racist peckerwoods.
The jealous white trash West Valley that hates the Jewish community for having more than two average shoe shine box lawyer?
The Nasty West Valley – home of porn and tweak?