People outside the city may not understand why the MacArthur Park police incident is a big, big deal.
The focus on this situation is not about police bashing. When all is said and done, although we want to hold them accountable, we don’t want to bash our police. And, in general, the city likes Chief Bill Bratton.
Certainly, in some of the poorer areas of town, there is still much mistrust of the law enforcement. The bad old years aren’t going to be overcome in a minute. But there’s been much progress, and most in the city feel it.
So what happened on the evening of May 1 in MacArthur Park?
We are troubled because the incident points beyond itself to something dark that still exists in the department, despite all the training and reorganization. The mayor is wisely flying home early from his Central American trip because he senses the growing upset. The chief grows more vocal about his concern daily.
“Here you have a tent clearly [for the] news media,” Bratton said Thursday, talking about Telemundo anchor Pedro Sevcec, who was knocked to the ground. ” The anchor “wears a suit and tie and there is clearly cameras … and the knocking over of cameras in the tent — that behavior is not under any circumstances justified.”
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Here are a few other updates, with more to come.
*The LA Times reports that Bratton has asked the FBI to step in. This is a very, very smart move.
*He is also calling for a top down investigation to find out who gave the order for force to be used on the demonstrators.
*Fox 11 camera woman, Patti Ballaz, is holding a press conference this morning to announce that she’s suing the LAPD and city of Los Angeles. Ballaz was knocked to the ground, then had her wrist broken, plus other injuries
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The most serious concern that I have about MacArthur Park is trying to figure out why someone left the cake out in the rain and what happened to the recipe. [SONG LINK]
If, however, you’re talking about the attack on the police rather than the song, here’s a more rational take, which, whether you agree with it or not, is helpful to understand how some view this through rational lenses. [STORY LINK]
…As this conflagration spreads, you can be certain that:
1) Democratic presidential candidates will exploit the moment; ignore the history, context, and current reality in gang-infested MacArthur Park; and ingratiate themselves with the open-borders demagogues;
2) GOP presidential candidates will join the pandering or cower in a corner; and
3) Mainstream media sensationalists will produce anti-police pabulum like this in a bid to relive the glory days of the Rodney King riots: ….
Admit it. This isn’t about justice. It’s about injustice to the police for political gain.
Well, I fouled up. The rest of the comment, except for the very last line, should have been part of the quotations in the boxes.
Okay, Woody. I’m confused. Which comment, where, what boxes?
Celeste, I did a most un-lady-like display with a mouthful of coffee when I read item #1 in your previous post. Good grief. Those kinds of observations need to carry a choke warning.
I guess I can understand the possibility of a cop’s cognitive processes being overwhelmed by a sheer flood of adrenalin. Crowds of people can inflame into unruly mobs awfully quickly. And, small groups can morph into a large mass equally quickly. If you know that, or have experienced that, it makes sense to me that the fight-or-flight physiological response would kick in faster than you could recognize it. You’d literally drown in your own hormones. And, if flight isn’t an option…
Still. As you say, whacking reporters with microphones and camcorders among their colleagues as witnesses doesn’t play well on the news. And, the public forms an opinion off those images that makes it difficult for them to accept that the police weren’t using an unnecessary level of force – or had not failed to deploy force appropriately.
As you note, I’m among those who have been following Zimbardo’s thesis for awhile. I’m not sure there isn’t a difference between how that tendency emerges in an institutional setting – evolving over time – and a “flash point” situation as in MacArthur Park. Certainly, a mind set that evolves in relation to power, the potential for violence, and the sanctioned use of force (lethal, or just short of that) is an artifact of a seduction. And, I’m not sure what kind of person or personality is immune. I suppose Zimbardo makes the point there isn’t one. And, if there isn’t, then the question is how to provide for the public safety, balanced against the public’s right to organize, in a public venue?
I despair the efficacy of training methods that attempt to inoculate public safety officers against overreaction, because I’m not sure that in the space of time a person has to judge their choice, it can be effectively determined what action is an overreaction. Failing to act, could prove (and, has proved) to be as deadly as overreacting. Toss in the fight or flight physiological response on top, with people whose amygdala’s have been pre-conditioned, and we get what we get.
We can have all of the commissions, investigations, inquires, or whatever we want, and they could deliver findings that range from aardvarks to zebras, but I’m not sure it will prevent a ‘next time.’ I figure crowd control is a form of high art. I’m not sure you could find that many artists among the rank and file. And, if they’re not in the rank and file, I’m not sure a single artist in command can effectively orchestrate individual responses into an artistic display. Since you have to provide for the police participant with the lowest level of skill, I suspect it will require something other than officers on foot with batons and bullets.
Well this will not hurt Bratton’s chances of a second term, if he still wants it. I don’t see past LAPD Chiefs acting this way. But I think it would be interesting to see what the rank and file think because they are used to the brass defending them at all times.
Heck, Celeste purged my comment, which linked a video of the song MacArthur’s Park and quotes from Michelle Malkin. Nothing lost.
Now my first comment is suddenly back. Go figure.
Woody, it got sent to me to “moderate” and I didn’t notice it until I read your note about the disappearing comment. My program chooses odd things to “moderate.” It even snatched one of mine, once. But I suspect it just didn’t like Michelle Malkin on general principals. Ann Coulter might short the thing out altogether. 😉
Listener, I try and give real creedence to the possiblity that police, in course of doing their jobs, run into some nasty characters and need to be prepared for such things. As a result, they sometimes overeact or act prematurely, and while we look to rectify those tragedies, we don’t want to crucify decent, if errant, cops. But what I think happened in this situation has very little to do with frightened police and a lot more to do with the power trip involved when you’re dressed head to toe in riot gear and armed with a series of “non-lethal” weapons. Most officers behaved admirably, but those couple of bad actors should be severly punished. Not only did they actually hurt innocent people, but they sent the ongoing message that just because you came out to peaceably assemble doesn’t mean that you won’t get clubbed.
If your moderator has qualms about Michelle Malkin it shows exquisite taste.
Mavis, to a certain extent, I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here. In my personal experience, many cops come off as simply brutish, thuggish, and dangerously dumb. People keep telling me that the ones I’ve encountered aren’t representative, but I have to take that on faith. That’s not been my experience. My bias aside…
Thought #1. Consider five cops located apart from one another on the edges of an excited/boisterous crowd. Four out of five are able to move their piece of the crowd without incident. The fifth, however, is involved in an ‘incident.’ Now, we surmise, because of the video that this MacArthur Park incident was either unprovoked, or the level of force was unwarranted. But there are lots of incidents in which there isn’t a camcorder handy. Imagine no video, for now. Four cops succeed, one fails. What do we know? Not much. We can have an array of eye witnesses – all of who may report something slightly different, depending on their role/alliances in/with the crowd, and their vantage point. There is no good way to discern whether the one that failed was a bad apple, or if his/her corner of the crowd was truly different.
Thought #2. Peaceable assemblies can turn ugly. And, it seems to happen in the space of very few minutes. Otherwise good folks who could never imagine themselves foaming at the mouth crazy can get that way in a mob. I’ve watched enough student riots to know that otherwise responsible young people can get just nuts in a large crowd when they think their rights for assembly are thwarted. And, no, they weren’t all just likkered up, or flyin’. Distinguishing that instant when it is too soon to deploy rubber bullets, your baton, or tear gas, from the instant when it was too late to avert an out and out riot seems like a mighty small time lapse, to me.
Thought #3. There will always be bad apples. Always. If found brutish in this incident, deploying an unnecessary amount of force, and causing unwarranted injury, the offending cops can be fired, sued to the heavens, and/or jailed. And, they should be. It will serve as an object lesson if they are, but likely only to those who probably didn’t need the lesson in the first place. The ones that do, will exempt themselves. Screening procedures in hiring can help identify some of those folks, but those screening procedures aren’t foolproof. Bad apples will always creep into the bushel, and the longer they’re there, the more apples are infected with the rot. So it pays to identify them quickly, and weed them out. But you have to have ’cause’ for doing that. And, sometimes a cause, that you can make stick, won’t be available until an incident like the one at MacArthur Park.
Now, you’re welcome to pick this all apart. That’d be easy enough to do. But (as you put it) I think every participant, acting peacefully, in a peaceable assembly needs to be ready for the possibility that they could get clubbed. It’s not okay. It would never be okay. But given the nature of the event, and the participants on all sides, the probability is not zero, as demonstrated in this case. There was simply a video to show that it happens.
Thought Police
There is no reason to HATE Michelle Malkin, just because she is a bright, beautiful Asian Woman who writes with a sword/pen or making prejudicial statements, calling police “brutish, thuggish, and dangerously dumb†just that happen to rough up a few journalists.
I won’t pick your hypotheticals apart. I’ll let the various investigating authorities do their work and we’ll see. If you’re advocating an even-keeled approach to allogations of police misconduct, I’m on board. Take it seriously, investigate, and take action to prevent future problems.
Based on my 30 years of representing peace officers in internal investigations of alleged misconduct, this is one of the most reasoned discussions I have ever seen. I’m concerned, though, that this level of analysis and thought is absent from the public discussion. Why? When we are talking about things as important as First Amendment rights and the behavior of people who are granted the right to restrict freedom and use deadly force, why is the majority of comment of a soundbite nature? Ranting, raving, finger pointing and posturing does nothing to move the debate.
I cannot add anything to listener_on_the_sidelines (an excellently thought out and well written analysis) other than to say that most cops aren’t brutish, thuggish, or dangerously dumb. They are, though, more likely than most people to assume a personna at work that they view as self-preserving. A command voice and command presence are necessary tools of the trade that are to be used to keep situations from escalating to the point where physical force is necessary.
Thanks for the great comments.
When I complain about the majority of “comment” I’m talking about that reported on TV and in the press, not the comments here. My mistake.
I know that Celeste had a more recent post up this morning and now it’s pulled. Maybe some cop stormed her house and deleted it from her computer with his nightstick.
Yeah, I noticed the same thing at about the same time you posted … Was reading her comments from today when the BACK key resulted in a message saying what I was searching for didn’t exist. I figure I probably jinxed her site by trying to decide how to respond to Charles.