Hi everyone. I just arrived in Boston, where I will be for a few days at a journalism conference.
I may (or may not) do a bit of posting, but for the next few days, the illustrious Alan Mittelstaedt will be your host.
Remember, this coming Monday, August 17, is the last bail hearing for Alex Sanchez at which Time the FBI wiretap tapes are supposed to (operative words “supposed to“) be played for Judge Real, who declined to continue with the hearing until they were played for him in court.
So will the Feds fork them over? Or have the governments lawyers been spending the last month trying to find legal ways to weasel out of playing the tapes that seem to be at the center of the case against Sanchez?
I will assuredly be in court to find out.
Now, over to Alan.
To reg and those who support Obama’s rationed-care, kill the elderly, free but expensive, socialized medicine, here is a public service announcement, which seems appropriate for you.
Unconventional Methods To Prevent Influenza
You’re a sick little man, swimming in your own shit. No time for perverts.
OT (though there isn’t really a T unless we want to take positions for and against Alan), but we get a lot of law-and-order types in these parts who seem to believe that the only really way to reduce crime is to lock more people up. What I hear is that people have a personal responsibility not to commit crimes and that any one who says there are good public policy ways (other than long prison sentences) to reduce crime is a squishy liberal.
Here’s the thing. We have way more violent crime than other advanced democracies. (http://tiny.cc/IfZxw ) And we lock up more people per capita than any other nation in the world. (http://tiny.cc/oMOoS) Since we are such an outlier, doesn’t that indicate there are ways to reduce violent crime other than increasing prison sentences? If the rest of the Western World has managed to have less violent crime (the real goal here) and lock up fewer people (a great ancillary benefit), doesn’t that mean it’s possible?
I’m looking for real responses – not just cracks about France or something.
Unconventional Methods To Prevent Influenza
“Avoiding masturbation…”
With your forehead caved-in and going deaf…Ahh, I’m going to take a big fat guess and say your a little late to heed that call, Woody.
Another thread that proves Alan used excellent judgment in closing comments on the post above.
Evidence of what cynical vampires the “Death Panel” promoters happen to be, and the sad folks they’re preying on:
http://www.beautifulhorizons.net/weblog/2009/08/the-used.html
(So as not to waste anyone’s time, overflow from Woody’s septic tank will be deleted at BH.)
Mavis – do you follow Mark Kleiman of UCLA. He’s a pretty interesting guy on effective punishment – which involves shorter sentences applied with greater consistency as well as better parole supervision, as well as general approaches to crime reduction.
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/cat_crime_control.html
That link is his archive of crime posts. I don’t find him to be vending liberal nostrums nor conservtive cliches. Not sure I always agree with him, but he’s one of the most serious analysts of crime and sentencing – and the Drug Was – out there.
He’s been doing good stuff on the anti-health reform crazies as well. Good guy very much worth reading regularly. And he recently did an amusing take-down of a fact-challenged Joe Klein column that was anti-Drug War but pushing a lot of silly myths about the economic and tax potential of the “cannibis industry” that make the rounds. Not a friend of bullshit, whatever the source.
Reg, thanks for the link. I don’t really read Kleiman though I have heard of him.
The point of my earlier post was to see if there are even some basic premises that we can all agree on before we start squabbling over specific policies. The basic question is this: are there policies other than increased incarceration that can reduce crime? I think the answer is clearly yes, but I’m curious what some of the other commenters have to say.
A more honest presentation of Obama’s socialized medicine than what reg offers: One Single Payer System
Mark Kleiman’s great. (Just got up from nap after taking redeye from LA.)
Good comment, Mavis. Are we really that much more inherently criminogenic as a nation than those in other countries? Or is our corrections system—especially in California—perhaps in need of a top to bottom overhall? All of it: sentencing, incarceration, parole, reentry.
Obviously, I would check answer B.
“to see if there are even some basic premises that we can all agree on before we start squabbling over specific policies”
Mavis, I think that you have to assume some level of good faith, a mind reasonably open to considering alternatives, a reasonable degree of honesty in assessing evidence, a williingness to go beyond the anecdotal or deep and often bitter personal bias, and at least a modicum of shared goals and values. I dare say there are some strident voices in these threads to which most of those requisites simply aren’t applicable. Frankly, although Celeste writes great, thoughtful pieces, I don’t think you’re going to get an extended rational discussion of alternatives in the comments here.
I also have to say that while I recognize failure – especially Epic Fail like the “Drug War – and bullshit demonization and dehumanization of entire neighborhoods, I wouldn’t pretend to be expert on this and pretty much defer to the notion of modest, incremental reforms – such as are being suggested by Jim Webb and, perhaps more systematically, Kleiman. I don’t defer to the cops and prison guards mentality, because I know its coming from a very narrow and self-serving vantage point and reeks of cynicism and crippled psyches, but I don’t think we can just overturn their worlds either, unless someone else much better equipped is willing to step into their shoes. I don’t see that on the horizon – I think we’re going to continue to get the kind of “public servants” and social policies we probably deserve, given that most folks just want these problems to disappear from their front lawns, and that’s about it. Ironically, it’s the tax burden that may actually drive some rough reform of incarceration policies. But I’m not really looking forward to the results. I think it’s pretty predictable which end of town will end up short, one way or another.
There is a very simple method for lowering the crime rate in California and freeing up prison and jail cells. We just need to enforce the immigration laws, approximately 25% of the inmates in L.A. county jails are illegal aliens.
The taxes we use to pay for jails, police, county hospitals and schools for illegal aliens is in the billions. This money could be used for many programs to educate U.S. kids and give them a bright future.
Instead we waste $ billions $ on illegal alien criminals such as this double murderer, recently caught in Mexico, this story is all too common.
http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime/2009/08/pasadena-gets-cold-case-suspec.html
I don’t really want to get in a debate about illegal immigration so lets just note that according to the Urban Institute California spends $368 million incarcerating illegals. That’s real money, but it’s a small fraction of the overall prison budget and incarcerated illegals are a modest fraction of prisoners. So while you’re right that if we didn’t have illegal immigrants we’d save some money, we’d have a lot of the same basic problems.
So we’re left with the same question: is there a way to reduce crime without increasing sentences?
(As a side note, the send ’em to Mexico prescription is really an extension of the lock ’em up philosophy: the only thing to do is wait for people to commit crimes and send them away)
Reg, sometimes I think the key to these kinds of things is getting people to think for themselves. If you discuss something the right and left wing idea infrastructure hasn’t debated to death, maybe people will use their brains and make an independent judgement. That said, some folks are very resistant to thinking.
This is nice. Kind of like the inmates are running the asylum, but oh pshaw, without the drugs or even the war on them. Can we americans pretend to have fun without drugs and war? Maybe but I’m not betting on it.
Incarceration the whole custodial system is the end product of a value-less society, or better said a society whose values are deeply flawed. Does anyone know the recidivism of that old archaic Louisiana prison that still uses a sort of agrarian structure, chain gangs, etc. – Angola? The reason I even ask that is because the impression of CA’s institutions is that convicts are left to “fester” until they mysteriously morph into more adept or at least more mean spirited criminals. Why not put them in the dirt? No not under it, Woody, but at work growing food, soaking up the Sun, and cultivating some worhtwhile endeavor? I know there’s some who’ll raise the Cool Hand Luke stereotype, but was that really all that bad? I don’t know, really don’t and got a little taste of it back when it was a place where a wrong-doer had a chance to make a change. I pity these poor fuckers nowadays. the gangs, the pressures, the political maneuvering, the density of the population. It’s a bomb waiting to detonate.
Off the incarceration topic, but if Woody links to “Investors Business Daily” to “prove” one of his notions or display his “expertise”, as he often does (I think it’s his favorite along with Neil Boortz) it might be useful to remember this bit of crackpottery as representative of their “journalism”:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019457.php
I have to say, Guava, that it’s always kind of amazed me that mandatory work isn’t a routine part of sentencing. Maybe it’s too hard to maintain necessary discipline – I don’t know – but its difficult to imagine a better way for inmates to spend 8-10 hours of their day than engaged in productive labor – or alternatively, education. This just seems elementary.
Mavis writes:
Which happens to be utterly false. We have more murders than others, but other violent crimes are now higher in most of Europe. You have twice the chance of being victimized by violent street crime in England than in the US, for example.
As for the murder rate, out demographics may be a big part of it. 50% of all murders in the US are committed by African Americans, almost all against African Americans.
Oh, yeah, reg. I’m sure that Stephen Hawkings has received exactly the same care from the U.K.’s National Health Service that every other internationally reknowned physics scientist has received there. Why, Great Britain’s socialized medical program apparently hasn’t even discovered semi-annual dental cleanings.
Take the “k” out.
I know that it’s asking too much and even bringing it up makes me part of a radical mob, but would the Democrats who want to urgently push through the government takeover of health care ACTUALLY READ THE LOUSY BILL?
– – –
I learned the following from Neal Boortz today. I bet that your uppidity left-wing publications didn’t report it.
Shocking! What a surprise…these mobs organized by the Democrats, you know.
If the NYT, LAT, CNN, CBS, and TIME are “representative of of your ‘journalism,'” then you’re missing a lot of important and honest facts upon which to base your sorry opinions.
Here’s your source of news:
NYT: ‘Almost Entirely White and Irritable Crowd’ of ‘Angry’ Obama-Care Protesters
zzzzzzzz
Too bad you’re sleeping, reg (or, most likely, simply won’t admit that you can’t overcome my points). You’ll miss the Perseid meteor shower tonight. For the rest:
Plan for Perseid meteor shower 2009: Prime spots and camp-outs in California
Nuts. Here’s the corrected link:
http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/index.php/plan-for-perseid-met-4966/
Moore – you’re full of shit. You can’t simply subtract murder from “violent crime.” That’s like subtracting “cancer” from causes of death to prove…something. God knows what. Also the reporting of the “violent crime” category is different in different countries, although its likely that some categories of serious crime have decreased in the US compared to some, but not all, European countries. Robberies are significantly lower in several European countries. And your “demographics” comment makes no sense, other than as sheer racism. You’re sawing things off for convenience, which is the signal of a dishonest, propagandistic argument. Lazy bullshit…
Woody, would you please deny that health care is rationed in the US on the basis of ability to pay. Please put the Big LIe that is the only argument that could make any sens of your bullshit in black and white so everyone can see what a sorry piece of crap you are. Also Little Miss Malkin has been totally debunked. You’re welcome to go find the numerous stories on her penchant for attacking Democrats children that appeared today. Nobody cares when you post links to people that ridiculous. ( I caught her in a complete fabrication on This Week about unemployment insurance – posted Aug.2 at BH – and actually got recognized for my efforts with a linkNYTs on Krugman’s blog, among others. I’ll take that over anything you’ve ever come up with. Your “sources” and their assertions are a joke. Bush wouldn’t even let anyone into his town halls who wasn’t vetted as a true believer during the SS privatization fiasco. This is well known – did Boortz or Malkin call that “the culture of corruption or did they have their tongues in his ass, cheering that crap on ? You folks are entirely too transparent. But it’s sort of fun watching the black guy in the White House driving you crazy.)
Woody – “can’t overcome my points’ – you’ve NEVER made an honest argument here. Your shrieking about gays and pedophile is proof of just how desperate you’ve become in your inability to make any sense. The only question is why I bother with you. Nobody in their right mind takes you seriously. It must be very lonely back there, what with all of your armwaving and childish demands for attention. You’ll literally do or say anything to get someone to notice. Very sad…
Please use the term “uppity” more often Woody. It helps clarify your thought processes…
Mavis – do you see my point about these threads degenerating into garbage dumps for cretins ?
Woody – re Hawking, you can whine and weasel about the exposure of IBD’s article as asinine, but your favorite “Business Daily” wrote this:
“People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless,”
Only a moron could write that sentence. It shows the level of analytical competence at IBD. They – and you – are idiots spewing mindless propaganda, no matter how factually challenged. If you want to defend that statement by trying an end run of false insinuations, fine. Intellectual dishonesty is your comfort zone.
John, your comment about black people is both inflammatory (as you intended) and totally irrelevant to my question. Also, the only source I can find for your info about violent crimes (which would be at least relevant) is newsmax which doesn’t link to the data it cites and in my experience cherry picks data like crazy. Without the actual study or a more reliable news source, I’m not buying. Here’s some data I found that says different: http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf
Additionally, as reg says, murder happens to matter. A lot. And from what I can tell, you still aren’t answering my main question: Are there ways other than increased incarceration to reduce violent crime?
reg, Woody is just a liar with nothing resembling beliefs or principles and if I could shut him up, I would. Not my call. So I ignore when I can and respond when I’m bored or off my meds. I have no interest in his opinion on anything. Ever.
I know. I’m an idiot to engage his childish taunts…
Maybe Mavis or any who believe like her could tell me the last time someone in jail actually killed someone on a street anyone could just walk up and down? The lowest figure I came up with regarding murder parolees who murder people once out, not just commit other violent crimes is 10%. How many families have to be destroyed until it makes a dent on some of you? That figure is on the low end by by the way so explain to me what possible reward is worth the risk?
Stats can be manipulated by anyone with half a brain when it comes to many subjects, but knowing someone is a parolee when they kill someone isn’t one you can. That’s not taking into consideration other parolees or probationers where the numbers go way up.
So my contention in regards to the question posed by Mavis..”If the rest of the Western World has managed to have less violent crime (the real goal here) and lock up fewer people (a great ancillary benefit), doesn’t that mean it’s possible?”, is that we can’t and expect to maintain a level of safety that citizens in this country expect and demand. You can’t compare this nation to others, we’re different in many aspects and any comparison would have holes in it.
If what you believe should be was true Mavis, when 3 Strikes went into effect crime rates would not have lowered to any noticeable degree, it has because we lock up offenders who not only commit violent crimes but have continued to show a history of committing multiple crimes. Do you have any idea the human cost to victims of non-violent crimes like identity theft, burglary, fraud, grand theft and the list goes on? That’s not important?
The answer isn’t to release more people involved in criminal activity. If anything we need to really work on the concept of promoting good, lawful and moral behavior in our young in our schools because some of these youngsters have no prayer when they go home to a house full of thugs. I’ve said this before criminal behavior in many families is generational and at some point that has to be addressed at length.
Releasing more criminals into a society where we already have whole neighborhoods where kids can’t even go out to play just doesn’t make sense to me.
Lordy. Will any of you answer the damn question!?! Is there way to reduce violent crime other than increased incarceration?
reg, EVERYTHING OF SUBSTANCE that you post (which is very little) can be debunked with more information than you care to share and analyses. You are a waste of time.
Nobody believes that Woody – not even you.
Regarding health care, bureaucracies, rationing, and timeliness, a few months ago I injured by hand, saw the doctor, and had it x-rayed — all in one afternoon. Try that in Cansda, Great Britain, France, and other countries that abandoned the free world.
(Are you going to report me for spreading “fishy rumors?”)
– – –
Re. Chino prison riot: “About 95 percent of the prisoners are parole violators.”
What are we supposed to do? Let them out on parole?
– – –
This explains one prison problem.
“Ex-Clinton aide Betsey Wright charged with smuggling box cutter, pocket knife, tweezers, tattoo needles onto Arkansas death row…”
– – –
Those pathetic, stupid, lazy, Obama supporters.
reg, I sincerely believe that the few things of substance that you raise can be proved wrong with adequate information and analysis. You come from such an ideological bankrupt philosophy, that you have to twist and misrepresent everything to make communist or socialist systems look good.
“You come from such an ideological bankrupt philosophy, that you have to twist and misrepresent everything to make communist or socialist systems look good.”
Proof that what I said about Woody not even believing his own bullshit has got to be true. Nobody is stupid enough to make such an insane, patently false charge against me, not even him. His desperation is palpable.
No Mavis, absent taking kids from criminal parents or out of enviornments that breed crime lengthy incarceration for repeat offenders has been shown as the only effective tool to reduce violent crime.
All your screaming doesn’t change those facts.
Since California has the highest recidivism rate among states despite Three Strikes, SureFires’ assertions make absolutely no sense.
Also re: “The lowest figure I came up with regarding murder parolees who murder people once out… is 10%.”
This is a made-up statistic. There is no data supporting the assertion that 10% of convicted murderers murder again once out. The highest figure I’ve seen is 4% – which is arguably still way too high – but I just don’t believe SureFire knows what the hell he’s talking about, despite all of his “screaming.” I guess we can now argue about whether I’m a sappy liberal who thinks a 4% murder recidivism rate is a wonderful thing, but I’m not going to play that bogus weasel’s game. The point is we’re being treated to assertions based on bogus “facts” – which invalidates the source IMHO and puts the burden of proving you’re not a wack job on back on them. I don’t want to discuss shit with people who are slippery and unreliable with their “facts” but think they still deserve to be taken seriously. The highest recidivism rates, incidentally, are for drug offenders – which speaks to the irrationality of incarceration as a “solution” to drug addiction.
Give it up Woody – you just look dumber the longer you play….
http://bernielatham.com/2009/07/03/emergency-room-response-canada-versus-us/
More on some of these issues when I get back—particularly as the state assembly starts discussing the matter.
But to say that we can arrest and incarcerate our way out of all of our crime problems is completely preposterous and counter to research. But don’t take my word for it: Bill Bratton, Lee Baca—and each of the people who have been repeatedly mentioned as being on the probably short list to succeed Bratton as chief—have each, at some point, said as much as well.
You all are treating me like I’m trying to trick you or something. I’m not asking you to give up your beliefs that longer incarceration works or that illegal immigrants are a drain on the system or that black people are murderous, galling as I may find them. I just thought that if you were willing to acknowledge that there are ways of reducing crime other than increasing sentences, well, that might be a basis for some common approach.
There’s a lot of different stuff policy makers do to try and decrease crime that has nothing to do with incarceration rates. There are varying policing strategies (the famous “broken windows” policy for example), parole policies (see the Hope program), anti-gang programs (including Celeste’s favorite Homeboy Industries), and I’m sure countless other programs and policies. I have a very hard time believing that every single one of those people coming up with all those different strategies is just wasting time. And truth be told, I don’t think you guys do either. I think you just have some weird reflexive urge to avoid thinking about other possibilities – or at least possibilities suggested by a liberal.
You keep avoiding my response Mavis, there are ways, society is just too cowardly to accept the challenge because it might mean finding places for kids who live in homes that are broken already but someone soft in the head hasn’t said it yet, they know it but won’t do anything about it. How many parents have to kill their kids until someone wakes up to that fact?
This concept that a child’s place is best with their family is stupid beyond belief, seen enough terrible families to know better. By the way, I don’t make up anything, I saw the 10 %figure and people who want to investigate it will find it as well, not doing anyone’s legwork. Someone should have the night nurse take a look.
Celeste is someone who posted she’s been to zillions of dead gangster car washes, where her sympathy lies is obvious. Saying we can’t arrest ourself out of crime problems is the cry of people who have agendas of their own, isn’t your agenda all over this blog Celeste? As for Bratton and Baca, like most chiefs I’ve met they are simply big time office managers. Sherman Block once told a reporter who questioned why a deputy had shot a guy with a sword that “We’re not paid to tie”. I think some of you look at crime that way, play for the tie, and it’s silly.
Our recividism rate is high because we have a major amount of bad guys in this state and when they get out they go back to their learned and desired type of life and I do mean desired. I’ve gotten more than one parolee a job in my time and not one has stayed out of jail even when gainfully employed. What dream world are you people living in? Do any of you gang loving liberals ever really consider the victim? I haven’t seen it here yet when it wasn’t accompanied by a soft approach on crime.
You think we can throw up a Homeboy Bakery on every corner and that’ll fix everything? Let’s see we have rampant unemployent, an economy still in the crapper, people begging for jobs and those jobs should go to…gangsters? Spare me please, I think others deserve them more.
Reggie’s a p.o.s. and nothing he says ever matters, not ever.
Tell me Celeste than you’re smarter than to actually believe that some chief candidate is going to express his real deep down feelings about crime rather than what he thinks his potential employers want him to say. They want the job, that’s the bottom line.
Just to show I’m not as big a neanderthal as you think, I worked community based policing for about two years and can see where it can work but it doesn’t work without first putting the idiots in jail that are victimizing said community. As you rid neighborhoods of criminals, even sending those back for minor dope violations because nobody with a third grade education could seriously argue their not involved in other crimes, you bring in recreational and educational resources to change things. Other resources as well including community beautification projects but the first two for sure.
If you don’t keep on top of these areas that improve it only takes one idiot or two coming out of the joint to tear down what’s been built. I’ve seen it happen and that’s why longer stretches for miscreants that will never behave has to be part of any solution.
reg, you idiot. I love your anecodotal “proof.”
My hurt hand was NOT an emergency. No blood, no outward evidence of anything broken. It just hurt from being hit. a small bang. Try explaining that in the emergency room of a socialist country rationing care and get immediate treatment. Here, they took care of me right away without a death or hand squad to decide.
Now, would you like to hear the story about a guy who went to a Canadian emergency room with chest pains, was turned away because he didn’t have his government card with him, returned home to get it, and died of a heart attack there? It’s true.
“Reggie’s a p.o.s. and nothing he says ever matters, not ever.”
Whatever, “MisFire” but I’m going to say a few more things that “don’t matter, ever” to you – mainly because you’ve got a chip on your shoulder and the kind of “insights” typical of burn outs.
You pose as an “expert” yet you feed us information that can’t be substantiated anywhere by anyone. So you do the fucking leg work if you’re going to try to sell shit that doesn’t hold up as fact, because there is no such recidivism statistic for homicide that’s verifiable. Your best shot here is just dumbass insults, so maybe you need a fucking night nurse to help you out, because you’re not making it on your own with this bullshit. It’s pretty plain that if you’re not a wannabe who plays a cop on the internet, you are a burn out with a fucking attitude. Unfortunately, those guys are a dime a dozen.
I’ve heard everything I hear from you from the drunk at the end of the bar. Platitudinous crap – as shallow as anything you accuse “gang loving liberals” of peddling. But you’re the one standing on “I saw it somewhere.” Anyone in law enforcement would know that the rate of homicide recidivism is probably the lowest there is. It’s not too hard to figure out why – and the reasoning could even support some of your argument if you had the presence of mind to actually think before you type. But you play us for stupid and reek with the pettiest, lamest contempt. I’m sorry, fella, but I’m not impressed.
And how’s that yoga working out ?
Woody – don’t come at me with anecdotal bullshit and then complain about anecdotes. You’re dumber than dirt. Too stupid to shut up…
Incidentally Wood – the worst thing you could possibly do for your crazy position on health care in the US vs. Canada, France, etc. is to sling anecdotes. Start that and you lose. It’s that simple.
There is NO empirical to support the “superiority” of the US health care “system” over France or Canada. None. And the anecdotal stuff on the US is like opening Pandora’s box. You might as well argue Creationism or that FDR and Obama are fascists. It’s that stupid. No go away. You’re fucking boring. GO have a beer with MisFire…
that’s “empirical evidence”
reg, how dumb can you get? I used an example simply because you used one and to actually poke fun at you.
reg, I don’t have to prove or care about U.S. health care superiority. I just have to concern myself about whether or not I’m happy with MY health care. I am happy, and I want no part of a government run system, like Obama’s post office example.
Other people in this country would be happy with their health care if they took some personal initiative and responsibility. The people who haven’t done that and whom you defend are the truly stupid people, along with yourself.
Woody – your happiness is the last thing on any list of what I could possibly care about. And I didn’t “use an example” of anything. IBD used an example – an absurd example – and proved that it is “journalism” written by idiots. You offered up your little finger as “proof” of something that can’t be proven – because it’s false. At least I’m glad you’re admitting that you don’t really care about the health care reform issues as social policy or in terms of comparative effectiveness of systems. It’s just about you. I happen to be very happy with my health insurance as well. But I’m not a selfish, ignorant bastard – a veritable slime machine of racism and bigotry – posing as a “Christian” – so the effectiveness and breadth of coverage that we get for an exorbitant cost structure that dwarfs most other countries with better systems concerns me. But thanks for jerking yourself off in front of Celeste’s readers…again.
Woody: reg, I don’t have to prove or care about U.S. health care superiority. I just have to concern myself about whether or not I’m happy with MY health care.
reg: Woody – your happiness is the last thing on any list of what I could possibly care about.
–
Right! And, that’s how it should be, you heartless person. You care about your own needs and I care about my own. Then we make our choices that are best for us individually and everyone is happy! Just don’t tell me what I HAVE to do or how MY money needs to be spent.
I care about other people and help them, but I don’t want to express my care by being forced to give to YOUR causes, and you’re crazy to judge me based upon what YOU think should be done versus how I want to give.
How many people have YOU led to Christ lately? How many people with no money have you given your cars to? How many people have you encouraged to become independent rather than slaves to the Democratic masters? If none, then maybe it’s you who is a “selfish, ignorant b**s***d.” (There you go with your name calling again.)
This is stupid to continue to comment on this here when the discussion has moved further up. I’ll post this comment above for that purpose.
More Woody-level slime from the Queen of the Crazy Train:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/palin-keeps-up-the-death-panel-attack.php
The GOP is an insane asylum.
Reg wins. This was a total waste of time. Disagreeing with me and being self righteous is more important than thinking about the issues at hand.
Reg wins at nothing except being miserable and avoiding the stats same as you Mavis. I will revise my 10% to 6% after doing some more investigation. Anyone can find a survey or article to agree with their point of view, even an idiot like Reg.
One of the things I found out when checking stats in different locales about paroled murderers was that when they kill again that percentage cited usually includes only paroled murderers, not lesser crimes that resulted in death like manslaughter or negligent homicide that many murders are plead down to, it’s a way liberals hide the truth.
If Reg could remove his head from his ass long enough he might want to visit the State Parole Site that shows not only the types and numbers of crimes parolee’s commit but what crimes new offenders people are being sent to prison for these days.
It breaks down stats by race, gender, location and crime. I was surprised by some of the numbers and noticed weed and hash are pretty absent unless the arrests are for sales. Even then the numbers are very low, so much for all the screaming the slackers do.
Don’t believe me or anyone else who posts, especially a donkey like Reg, believe the actual statistics.
By the way old man, I found rates as high as 11% and low as .5% in different parts of the country, again only counting murderers donk. Now it’s probably time for your afternoon pill.
Passing answer to Surefire. Of course we need arrests and incarceration. We’ve got laws, we need to enforce ’em. The surer and swifter the enforcement, the better. I’m grateful to all the officers who do that job well.
But it ain’t the whole of it, that’s all.
As for the statements of the chiefs and the like, some I’ve had long personal, off the record conversations with with—so I know what they say when they’re not being politically correct or whatever. Some I’ve not—it’s only been on the record. But there are several of these guys in particular who have risen high up in the command staff hierarchy are really sophisticated, nuanced thinkers—as well as being good cops. And none think we can—alone—arrest our way out of….etc. etc.
I realize I’m not being specific about who, but we’re going to be handicapping the race for chief soon so…. I don’t want to pick favorites. .
Honestly, Sure fire, I’m about done with you for good. I’ve done nothing but try and have a real conversation and all I get in return is snide comments about how I don’t care about victims of crimes (you’re reading my mind poorly) and complaints that I won’t deal with your statistics. Last I check you have barely posted any statistics and never link to a source for them. This is my last effort. If you can’t respond to me in kind, well, reg likes the bare knuckle stuff. Have fun.
My understanding of your 10% or 6% stat (which, since you didn’t provide a link, requires me to take your word or spend my time checking your homework) is that it means 6% of paroled persons convicted of murder commit another murder. The first thing I’d want to understand is if there is a better way to identify that 6% in advance. If so, perhaps we can target those persons. Also, I’d note that 94% of those people aren’t out committing murders and that’s good news (though I’m sure a fair proportion of them are not exactly on the straight and narrow). Whatever policy we devise should keep both the 6% and 94% in mind.
What I hear from you over and over again is that sentences always need to be longer for all crimes. That is totally uncompelling to me. If you want to convince me and people like me, you’re going to need to say crime x comes with y years and y years is too short because reason z. And if you want me, and others like me, to take you seriously, when we propose some policy that isn’t increased incarceration, if you don’t like it then say why it won’t work, don’t just accuse liberals of trying to “hug a thug.”
I’ll go into this deep with you when I’m not tired Mavis but I’ll just say two things in response to you.
I can’t link you to all the sites I went into, there’s too many and I jump all over the place when I look at a subject.
Secondly you’re twisting my words, I’ve never said everyone in a custodial setting needs more time behind bars I said the ones that have a history of acting in the same manner do.
From post#34
If what you believe should be was true Mavis, when 3 Strikes went into effect crime rates would not have lowered to any noticeable degree, it has because we lock up offenders who not only commit violent crimes but have continued to show a history of committing multiple crimes.
MisFire – great response because it pins you even farther in your wack little corner. You’re wrong, you know you’re wrong, but you’re too fucking small to deal with it. Typical of guys who strap on their dick.
More yoga…
You couldn’t pin me anywhere miss with a boat load of pins, you’re too stupid, just a miserable old half-demented loser.
You’re a joke Reg, how many times the cops kick your ass in your “dealing with the narcs days”? Leave a wound that’s festered for years to make you the nasty bitch you are now?
Life’s tough old man, have an enema and make it an early day. You know like most other days miss.
This is your best ? Man, you’re a lame little punk. Pretty pathetic stuff even for a cop burn out.
MisFire, your the burnt out, divorced, boozer ex-cop who just talks big. Go to a 12 step for anger. I know some decent cops, but your the scum from the 80’s.
Been married once Lynn 31 years, you Reg’s bag whore? I’m still sworn, not a burn out but finally figured out Reggie. You were a snitch Reg, it’s written all over you. Upset about what you did and your friends probably abandoned you, or was it a family member you gave up? I mean who would hang out with a loser light weight like you know.
Enjoy the sponge bath later, you and your toothless girlfriend Lynn can watch Sicko and make a night of it. Two more weeks to next months ssi you washed up old man, be happy. LOL, what a p.o.s. and a girl just like you with all the charm that a boy like you needs.
What a fraud.
You’re on continual asshole mode huh Reg? God I hope you were never allowed to breed. Course seeing the brilliance of some of the females here maybe one of them would throw a geriatric like you a conjugal from time to time.
i don’t get why reg is constantly allowed to insult people call them names and not back up anything he says with logic. sure fire don’t waste your time most of these people are the same person with multiple personalities.
Talk about mean spirited and pure venom, not to mention the oft used vitriol! George Kennedy’s Blue Knight has morphed into Aliester Crowley in a few short posts. This total immersion into a lifetime of law enforcement may have a tendency to taint, no? Not to be so derogatory as to have you link me with some dubious migratory female SF, I’d request that you conduct this little moralistic foodfight with more decorum. After all this is only a forum for opinion, not the Roman Colliseum. But just in case: “To those about to lie I salute you”…….
Well put, Roy….jejeje
Hey Surefire…pop another verbal pus-bag for us. You’re on a roll.
Mavis – here’s a link to Mark Kleiman’s forthcoming book, which addresses your question directly:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691142084
I think it’s obvious you’re not going to hear anything other than cliches and “drunk-at-the-end-of-the-bar” nostrums from our “expert” on law enforcement here. I’m sure he’s earned his bitterness, but it’s obviously a dead-end and has driven him pretty crazy, given the bizarre accusations and vile assertions.
Reg gives but he can’t take and gripes like a baby when he gets something back. Talk about a absolute fraud and poser, go have a good cry Reg.