Courts Criminal Justice

9th Circuit’s Warrantless Search Ruling: Welcome to the Fishbowl

27-search-warrant


Judge Alex Kozinski, the chief judge for the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals,
is mighty pissed off at the 9th circuit’s refusal to hear a 4th Amendment warrant case.

As the San Diego City Beat writes:

The other judges decided not to consider an second appeal by a San Diego man whose house was searched, without a warrant, by police who had arrested him outside his home. That, Judge Alex Kozinski says, erodes the protections against unlawful search and seizure that Americans hold dear. And he goes so far as to suggest police lied to the court.

Here’s a snippet from Kozinki’s dissent. Actully the whole thing is worth reading. Plus I’m impressed wtih Kozkinski’s use of “bupkis” in a Federal Court ruling.


This is an extraordinary case: Our court approves,
without blinking, a police sweep of a person’s home without a warrant, without probable cause, without reasonable suspicion and without exigency—in other words, with nothing at all to support the entry except the curiosity police always have about what they might find if they go rummaging around asuspect’s home. Once inside, the police managed to turn up a gun “in plain view”—stuck between two cushions of the living room couch—and we reward them by upholding the search.

Did I mention that this was an entry into somebody’s home,
the place where the protections of the Fourth Amendment are supposedly at their zenith? The place where the “government bears a heavy burden of demonstrating that exceptional circumstancesjustif[y departure from the warrant requirement.” … The place where warrantless searches are deemed “presumptively unreasonable.”

Government encroachment into the home, which I lamented three years ago in United States v. Black, dissenting from the denial of rehearing en banc), has continued, abetted by the creative collaborators of the courts. This is another example:
The panel goes to considerable lengths to approve a fishing expedition by four police officers inside Lemus’s home after he was arrested just outside it. The opinion misapplies Supreme Court precedent, conflicts with our own case law and is contrary to the great weight of authority in the other circuits. It is also the only case I know of, in any jurisdiction covered by the Fourth Amendment, where invasion of the home has been approved based on no showing whatsoever. Nada. Gar nichts. Rien du tout. Bupkes.

Whatever may have been left of the Fourth Amendment after Black is now gone. The evisceration of this crucial constitutional protector of the sanctity and privacy of what Americans consider their castles is pretty much complete.

Welcome to the fish bowl.

No kidding.

Read the rest of Kozinski’s opinion. It’s scathing.

The original majority decision may be found here.

Based on what Kozinski says, one is left to wonder how our city’s law enforcement agencies can be expected to train their young officers to respect the Constitutional rights of those with whom they deal—when the court appears to be saying that such nicities aren’t all that important.

65 Comments

  • I know this is going to make surefire blow a gasket, but it reads like a rule-bending report to me. I don’t know if that’s something a high-level appeals court is supposed to deal with, however. My understanding is that if cops lie it’s pretty much up to the defense to convince the jury and judges prefer to stay out of it. It’s not exactly a ringing defense of rule of law, but then, with Jay Bybee writing the opinion, we’re already in muddy waters.

  • I’ve always felt Libertarians were nothing more than Republicans with medical pot cards, but with issues like this I’m starting to see where they’re coming from. I really do believe privatizing law enforcement might be the only solution to defuse the police state we’re heading toward. I know of all the cons to privatizing police. And it won’t be pretty. But the overwhelming positive of it is that each community would be able to fire their police if they became too powerful, and replace them with a new agency. Considering the growing legion of termites that police have become to the pillars of our civil rights, I feel that that one positive outweighs all of the negatives of private policing. The police as we know them have become an experiment gone bad. They’re our Frankenstein.

  • Can you prove it Robbie? Prove that last two sentences? Show somw statistical fact, sopmething beyond your own built up biases that include claiming the entired LAPD are Nazis, to back your retarded thoughts.

    It won’t happen Robbie, because like any othet internet coward all you have is your big mouth and mountains of hate to spur your assinine rap.

    That must have been one nasty ass kicking some cop gave you in the past. Those wounds will never heal huh?

    Now I’ll read what took place regarding the search before I comment on the actual subject of the thread.

  • Why would I blow a gasket Mavis? The court was right in their conclusion. I read both Kozinski’s dissent along with the majority opinion. They got it right and Kozinski got it wrong.

    Sounds like Kozinski was getting help from Robbie when he formulated his thoughts. Accusing the officers of fabricating what took place, which is what Kozinski does, is no different than what Robbie constantly does here regarding law enforcement.

    I’ll side with the opinion of the majority and not with Kozinski whose questionable judgement is well documented in the attached link.
    http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/12/local/me-kozinski12

    What I didn’t see argued at all was that this convicted felon had a hand gun, must be ok with certain people who look at this as going down an imagined “slippery slope”. If he retreated to that point where he could access the gun what do you think might have been the outcome? Maybe a dead cop or two? If that would have happened, in the case of Robbie it would have been cause for a party and with Celeste you wouldn’t have seen it here just like her “missing” the 4 assassinated officers in Washington.

    So no Mavis, I’m not upset with this at all. I expect nothing more from certain people than what they post here which just makes me chuckle at their obvious narrow minded vision of real life.

    I could post numerous problems with Kozinski’s stupidity, and things about this incident he leaves out but why bother, it wouldn’t change the mindset of people anyway.

  • Add police boasting of “ass kickings” that law abiding citizens may have received at the hands of fellow police as yet another reason to privatize law enforcement.

  • R.T. believing drug cartels are better suited to run the country republicans and would also be more compassionate is yet another reason that R.T. is indeed retarded.

  • What would make me believe someone like you is law abiding? If some cop did kick your ass in the past I’m 100% sure it was warranted.

  • “…the officers of fabricating what took place…” is standard operating procedure and SureFire knows it. If he doesn’t, he never was a real cop. This case seems borderline to me, in that the officers arresting a guy walking half-way into his living room should probably have what ever rights to search they would have if he had succeeded in fully entering. But no more. I’m not a lawyer so I can’t really judge this on the finer points. But I’m also not stupid, and know for a fact that cops always write their reports not based on what actually happened but to conform to what they need to go to court. Don’t play us on this one, Surefire, or don’t claim you’re a real cop. I know this not only from talking to cops, but from personal experience. Of course, Surefire will claim, in the same vein as his celebration of official “ass-kicking” that if I know it from personal experience his assumption is that I deserved whatever I got and was probably guilty anyway – and he would thus prove my point about cops SOP. Maybe he’ll take a pass, since I’ve pre-empted him on that one. For anyone who takes a relatively liberal – aka bitches and snitches – POV, Surefire’s presence here offering his gems of wisdom is the gift that keeps on giving.

  • See, here’s the problem.

    I think this 9th circuit decision is interesting (which is why I posted it)—and there are arguable points to be made for both sides.

    I took Kozinski’s side, because I’d have liked the court to hear the case. Perhaps if I looked at everything presented I’d have agreed with the majority.

    But whatever. That isn’t the point.

    Various commenters here have opinions that fall to one side or the other of the question. GREAT! The 9th’s decision not to hear the case is representative of an important issue having to do with the fact that police have a difficult job to do and we must give them the proper tools and protections to do it—AND we must at the same time protect the Constitutional rights of Americans.

    Reasonable people in good faith can disagree about where this decision and Kozinski’s dissenting opinion fall in that continuum.

    But instead of discussing this complex and intriguing legitimately, a number of you here went straight for impugning of character—which is what frequently happens in these threads.

    That approach leaves little room for response except an angry one.

    AND what that does is to drive away from the table many who are interested in a legitimate discussion.

    (A few of you are level-headed people and you stick around, and for that I am grateful.)

    It’s wearying. Any of you is capable of stopping it. Simply comment without the personal attack. The fact that someone has thrown mud at you in the past is immaterial.

    Everyone on this thread is a valued commenter. But the level of discourse here leaves much to be desired.

    Please grow up.

  • Read both opinions. I think the majority was partially right. The police having the ability to do a “protective sweep” of areas “immediately adjoining” the area of arrest was ligitimate to me. This particular case may have been different in that the area of arrest was outside while the area “immediately adjoining” was insid. Fair enough. But there was still the opportunity for danger from that living room and the police should have been allowed to sweep for other ppl.

    Where I think the majority went awry is the application of the “plain view” doctrine. The officers saw “something” sticking out from under the cushion. SOMETHING. Not a gun but “something.” Thats how the majority opinion characterized it. The nature of that evidence was NOT immediately apparent because they didn’t even know what it was until they lifted the cushion. That’s where the search went wrong IMO. If you can lift and look under things for evidence, why even have a plain view doctrine?

  • I don’t believe my comment “impugned” anyone’s character. It was a totally fact-based comment that only referenced things that the person in question has paraded as the quality and substance of their opinions. It was implied, among other things, that if a bunch of cops were killed, you as the host would “accidentally-on-purpose” fail to note any such incidents. It’s hard to respond honestly to certain kinds of commentary without it sounding like you’re being uncivil. I’m not into faking civility with people who do nothing to earn it. I guess I’ll just have to ignore certain commenters, no matter how noxious. I found much of what Rob said wacky and over-the-top, but I am much more disturbed by a “law enforcement professional” who celebrates “ass-kicking” and parades pretty foul misogyny as his default “put-down” than I am by a random commenter. It’s kind of like the difference between some crank at a Tea Party carrying a gun and Senator Scott Brown “connecting the dots” between the “frustration” he “senses” that got him elected and the madman who flew a plane into the IRS building in Austin (Brown, appallingly, really did make that psycho connection when asked about the tragedy – what would suggest that connection is beyond me but probably obvious to people who feed their hate watching Glenn Beck.) But people – be they cops or Senators – who have achieved a level of public trust have a responsibility not to sound like fringe lunatics, awash in their anger and/or pandering to dangerous wingnuts.

  • Reg should never be taken seriously or ever believed. I won’t go on a obscenity filled rant about Reg, I’ll just use his own crazy dialogue to prove my point. Anyone with half a brain could see the cop hate that stands out in his words same as it does from Robbie. That’s where they come from when they post, simple as that.

    According to Reg’s own words 100% of cops lie, 100%. He’s including family I take it when he says.. “cops always write their reports not based on what actually happened but to conform to what they need to go to court”. Anyone who believes that is an idiot and it’s absolutely a lie. Wonder if that’s how his brother-in-law operates because I never did and as a supervisor if I ever found out any officer was acting in that manner his ass would have been mine.

    It’s easy for guys like Reggie and Robbie to fly off and make comments based on their own built up biases without presenting any facts to back up their mindless words, they do it all the time. Thinking people however demand facts. Reggie bases his opinion on exactly what… “I know this not only from talking to cops, but from personal experience”. How many cops Reggie, how many personal experiences? Go ahead and bring it out, are you a life long criminal with lots of experiences to tell us about or just that one you’ve cried about before? Remember now Reggie, you’ve claimed all police are corrupt, try making the case, or will it just be more filth from you?

    I’ll back up my own posts. I do enjoy it when an asshole gets his ass kicked, you don’t Reggie? “Law abiding citizens” like Robbie claimed, never said that did I? Who wanted to cap a guy with no trial or rights for the bad guy, wasn’t that you? When I mentioned the officer safety issue here and what Celeste missed was I lying? Didn’t she miss the Washington assassinations, the biggest story in the nation for days, and not commment until I posted about it? This is her site, she can do what she wants but I find it pretty sad she misses so much that’s so big.

    Does Reggie’s cop brother-in-law buy this bit of nonsense Reggie claimed as fact?

    “the officers of fabricating what took place…” is standard operating procedure and SureFire knows it. If he doesn’t, he never was a real cop.” Again, opinion based on cop hate and nothing more, anyone can say anything on the net but they don’t always run into someone who can throw it back at them asking hard questions. Cop hate sites, and I’ve posted on some, never have answers for guys like me. They can only toss out assumptions and innuendo they take to the farthest extreme they can. Reggie and Robbie are no different in how they post here.

    I upset cop haters like Reggie and Robbie, and others like them, because they have no concrete answers for what they hear from me. It’s all over this site and it makes them lose any composure they have which leads to the personal attacks. It’s all they have.

    Reggies right about one thing though, he’s no lawyer and neither is Celeste who put out this nonsense which in reading the opinion simply isn’t true..”The other judges decided not to consider an second appeal by a San Diego man whose house was searched, without a warrant, by police who had arrested him outside his home”. He broke the threshold, he’s considered inside in my opinion and some judges I guess.

    Bruin Girl, not hard to tell a gun sticking out from a couple of cushions but I’d have to read the opinion again to be sure of what they said they saw.

    Woddy has Reggie pegged exactly right. He’s simply an habitual liar.

  • Swampy Squat says it all in a short sentence. Maybe a good approach to the highly unneccesary comment feature would be to limit it to a single sentence? Personally I’ve been reading the blog long enough to know whose comments I even want to struggle through, and have to go away often resenting the fact that they’re even granted a forum to raise more hackles. Our host’s timely posts are the feature here. The smarmy attacks are better met in a seemier environment, somewhere classy folk don’t congregate.

  • The smarmy attacks are better met in a seemier environment, somewhere classy folk don’t congregate.

    *******************

    That why bar-fights are in bars and not on church.

  • Sure Fire, what problem would you have with the privatization of law enforcement? Why do you hate the idea of working in an industry where you can be replaced for poor performance or misconduct, as most Americans do? If you’re a good cop who practices good ethics, you’ve got nothing to worry about. You’d be in demand. But then again, if you’re one of those lazy guys who just signed on for the salary and benefits, or if you’ve always wanted to know what having power feels like and just like abusing people, you’d be sent off to pasture. Your outrage at the mere discussion of police privatization leads me to believe you’re likely part of the latter.

  • Swami, that’s true. An innocent man fears no one. Now are you going to tell me that when you read Sure Fire’s unbridled rage at the prospect of police privatization, you don’t see fear?

  • My post wasn’t in response to police privatization. Maybe you should read it again. If you’re just going to throw out an idea at least back up your statements with some type of facts attached and not hyperbole. In my opinion though privatization would accomplish nothing except some possible cost savings to the public.

    Police are held accountable now and can be replaced for poor performance or misconduct. Probationary terms are usually 18 months and some are weeded out in that time period with no right to appeal. I know of agencies now that do “weekly” stats on officers, which I fought against because it’s micro-management, and tells the staff nothing. It’s just not a long enough period of time to determine what an officer is doing. Do you see that happen in the private sector?

    The reasoning behind this trend is to keep a tighter grip on officers and give the agency a greater amount of a “paper trail” to get rid of officers. All it takes though is one staff member with a hard on for some officer to do their best to get rid of them.

    You can’t be serious if you think police would be under a greater degree of scrutiny working in the private sector, no way. What I think upsets people like you are the safe guards enjoyed by officers as provided by the Police Officers Bill of Rights.

    If police hadn’t been subject to working conditions, in past years, that treated them like second class citizens the bill would not have been needed. Go on line some time and read PORAC and you can see where officers have been fired for ridiculous reasons and reinstated due to the misguided actions of police supervisors. By the way, that rarely takes place with supervisors.

    The private sector has these same type problems and privatizing law enforcement would not only change nothing but probably make matters worse. With privatization stock holders, or others, would have to be kept happy in terms of profit which would mean cuts most likely in areas of training and equipment.

    No thanks.

  • Just reading through last part of the thread about the privatization of a police force, in addition to all that Surefire has said, with which I generally agree, imagine having your city police force run by, say, Blackwater.

  • You probsbly know along with your readers that Blackwater’s name has been changed to the obscure “Xe” It’s still the mercenary , gunzels-for-hire outfit formerly known as Blackwater USA but with a flashy new logo. I liked the artist formerly known as Prince’s transition much more, but his changes were ego-driven rather than monetary and political, harmless if you will. It seems Blackwater/Xe was exposed and charged with huge billing indiscretions, along with getting booted out of Iraq by the fledgling Iraqi government. Their new CEO Gary Jackson told employees at his induction “Xe will be a one-stop shopping source for world class services in the fields of security, stability, aviation, training and logistics.” Sounds like they’re still bathing in dark waters.
    My comment has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter, but it’s not malicious. The LAPD seems to have maybe reached a point where they could use a name change and some serious PR work. Any suggestions? Anyone? Anyone?

  • Why would LAPD need a name change Joe? I was not a big Bratton fan, the guys got an ego as big as any Hollywood star, but the Pd did make giant strides in their reputation in certain communities during his tenure. Robbie is in the minority when he claims the department is nothing but a bunch of Nazis.

    PR work, you have to be kidding. They are much better received in many of the neighborhoods that use to fear their presence. That being said any police agency that isn’t feared by gangsters, scum and the criminal element isn’t doing their job.

    As Swami Squad said, an innocent man fears no one.

  • I’m not interested in having my city policed by Blackwater/Xe, but if I was traveling in a hazardous part of the world, I’d be happy to have their hired guns along.

    What most haters of Blackwater don’t realize is that organizations like that are made up of ex-servicemen – and not ones who were thrown out for bad behavior. Many of their operators are former special operators – SF, SEALs, etc. They take on a lot of jobs that our military would otherwise be required to do – especially in Iraq during the troubles.

  • WTF, LA Eastside has an open comments section, last I checked. Feel free to respond to any of the points I’ve made over there, over there! Be warned, though, it looks like their mods are doing some spring cleaning. So you might want to keep it respectful. Maybe have an adult in your family leave the comment for you.

  • Sure Fire, let’s just say that with police privatization, police can be replaced for misconduct at a MUCH FASTER rate than what they are now.

  • It’s cute the way you guys keep bringing up blackwater as an example as to how police privatization wouldn’t work, when blackwater is hardly an example of democratic privatization. Nobody voted for blackwater. Bush just put them in their via some loophole in the patriot act. The idea I brought up was privatization through a democratic process. No appointments. The very agency that polices a community is voted in or out by the people.

  • Moore, if blackwater is so reliable abroad, why wouldn’t you want them policing the streets here? Whoever is the most capable of policing a neighborhood should be deputized to do so, right? Or are you a labor protectionist? Or, to be more specific, a labor protectionist only when it comes to police? Either you have something personally or financially invested in the police officers’ union, or you’re a leftist on labor. Has to be one of the two. Which is it?

  • WTF I’m not going to reward your stalkish behavior by bringing a fight you’re picking with me at another blog over to this blog. If you have anything to say in response to anything I’ve said at any other blog, say it there. Celeste’s rules. That’s why I stopped calling out Gava Joe on things he said at InTheHat.

  • Note to “SureFire” – I don’t hate cops. I hate assholes. You’re an asshole bigtime and everyone who reads the tired, scummy shit you post here knows it. That said, a puny little whiner such as yourself – burned out and driven by resentment – isn’t worth my time.

  • Incidentally, to set the record straight, my brother-in-law isn’t a cop. I said he “works for a police department” and he does – he’s in charge of the 911 responders and does an amazing job, is highly regarded by the entire department and does a lot of community representation for the department. My mother’s cousin was a cop – one of the first K9 guys who trained with dogs in London. Tragically, he committed suicide. Not uncommon. The suicide rate among cops is twice that of the general population and twice as many cops kill themselves as are killed in the line of duty. SureFire’s evident craziness, anger and resentment-driven ranting is a little peak into this too-often extremely dysfunctional world.

  • Oh…and here’s a clip from an ’09 Wall Street Journal article (that famously “cop-hating” Commie newspaper):

    “It is an open secret long shared by prosecutors, defense lawyers and judges that perjury is widespread among law enforcement officers,” though it’s difficult to detect in specific cases, said Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals-court judge, in the 1990s. That’s because the exclusionary rule “sets up a great incentive for…police to lie.”

    Police officers don’t necessarily agree, says Eugene O’Donnell, a former police officer and prosecutor who teaches law and police studies in New York. “Perjury is endemic in the court system, but officers lie less than defendants do because generally they aren’t heavily invested in the outcome of the cases,” he says.

    Testilying may have taken off after a 1961 Supreme Court decision boosted the exclusionary rule by requiring state courts to exclude — or throw out — some evidence seized in illegal searches, such as when police frisk people without probable cause or search a residence without a warrant.

    Immediately after the decision, Mapp v. Ohio, studies showed that the number of annual drug arrests in the U.S. — most cases are prosecuted in state court — didn’t change much but there was a sharp increase in officers claiming that suspects dropped drugs on the ground. “Either drug users were suddenly dropping bags all over the place or the cops were still frisking but saying the guy dropped the drugs,” says John Kleinig, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

  • surefire, reg shouldn’t have said “always.” That’s obviously untrue. Will you grant that cops “sometimes” falsify reports?

  • Yeah, Mavis – “always” was absolutely a wrong choice of words. I should have termed this “widespread”, as did the Wall Street Journal. “Sometimes”, I would submit, is too slippery. What I will assert and stand by is that “all” cops know this practice is widespread, and if they deny it’s widespread, they’re lying.

    Okay. That is, in fact, my last on this. Let the crazy rip…

  • RT, thanks for not getting into it. I didn’t realize that WTF was bringing in arguments from other threads.

    WTF, I’ve deleted your comments. Please stop putting me in this position. It is a waste of both of our time.

  • Yeah you couldn’t of said he wasn’t a cop long ago Reg, this isn’t the first time I’ve mentioned it. Sure you hate cops, I speak like most of them feel when it comes to law enforcement, and I don’t care if you believe that or not you don’t have any standing on the issue because you’ve never been a cop.

    You’ve put more filth into posts here than anyone but cry foul when you get it back so I’m an asshole. Well Reggie my career speaks for itself; you don’t and if I’m not worth responding to why do you keep doing it? All you show with your posts are you can’t come up with anything but extreme comments based on what others think and not on any real amount of your own life experience. You’re nothing but a fraud.

    Mavis, I wouldn’t agree with Reg on just about anything and the quote by Kozinski shows he hasn’t been fond of the police for a long time, though as my link showed Kozinski has issues of his own to deal with.

    His assertion …”perjury is widespread among law enforcement officers” is an absolute lie. Do officers “sometimes” lie, yes? Those officers should be fired, it’s a firing offense during the course of an I.A. and there’s no room for officers who lie in law enforcement.

    Reg will take someone else’s words and since he likes them make them his own without one ounce of proof. Case in point, more drop cases equals officers lying. Total b.s. or maybe Reg could explain what dopers or dealers would do with their dope when being chased by cops, hold onto it? Anyone who believes that is a moron, I had many drop cases, and it was part of the whole scenario when street dealers were so common in the 80 and 90.

    It’s unreal that a guy with no police experience can make claims like…”What I will assert and stand by is that “all” cops know this practice is widespread, and if they deny it’s widespread, they’re lying”. This shows Reg has no clue about police work, or maybe he would answer the questions I posed to him before about his contacts with law enforcement or his own talks with all these cops he knows.

    Bottom line is he’s a brain dead liar and if there’s a group that depends on the “lie” day in and day out in the system outside of the suspect themselves, it’s defense attorneys. I’ve seen it so many times, the wild claims they make based on not providing their clients with the best defense possible as is their duty but to get them off no matter what, it’s silly. I was once accused of having a guy I arrested commit a burglary so I could get the stat when I hooked him up, so I know first hand lawyers will say anything. Many lawyers I’ve dealt with have no ethics and they later become judges just like Kozinski.

    Anyone who believes a word Reggie says about law enforcement is an idiot, he’s a cop hater through and through no matter what he claims.

  • US Department of Justice Report, “Police Attitudes Toward Abuse of Authority”: The code of silence remains a troubling issue for American police, with approximately one-quarter of police officers surveyed stating that whistle blowing is not worth it, two-thirds reporting that police officers who report misconduct are likely to receive a “cold shoulder” from fellow officers, and more than one-half reporting that it is not unusual for police officers to turn a “blind eye” to improper conduct by other officers. These findings suggest that the culture of silence that has continually plagued the reform of American policing continues.

  • This is actually from the D.O.J.’s own analysis of this 10 or 12 year old report, depending on the date you go by, done by the National Institute of Justice which is the research arm of the D.O.J. but not the D.O.J. as Reg claimed. Call me picky but since I know Reg has a problem with the truth or has a habit of omitting certain things I’ll always investigate his comments.

    Here’s what the D.O.J. says about this and another report.

    ENSURING FAIRNESS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT

    Although serious cases of abuse of police authority have raised questions and been debated in recent years, little is known about how police officers themselves view these critical issues. According to two studies released by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) and the Office of Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) in June 2000, a majority of law enforcement officers in the United States find incidents of excessive force unacceptable and believe that police should be held accountable and punished for inappropriate behavior.

    Police Attitudes Toward Abuse of Authority: Findings from a National Survey questioned more than 900 U.S. police officers regarding their attitudes about police abuse of authority. To assess these attitudes, researchers polled 925 randomly selected police officers from 121 departments. The officers were asked what types of abuse and attitudes toward abuse police observe in their departments and what strategies or tactics are effective in preventing officers from abusing authority.

    The majority responded that:

    It is unacceptable to use more force than legally allowable to control someone who physically assaults an officer;
    Extreme cases of police abuse of authority occur infrequently, although fellow officers occasionally use more force than necessary when making an arrest; and
    The police “code of silence” affects an officer’s willingness to report improper police behavior.
    The second study, The Measurement of Police Integrity, surveyed officers in 30 police agencies nationwide to explore organizational influences on police behavior. In this study, the researchers drew the following conclusions about the perception of police integrity:

    Police officers were more likely to report and endorse severe discipline for more serious misconduct;
    The majority of police officers felt that their department’s disciplinary policies for misconduct are fair; and
    A majority of police officers said that they would not report a fellow officer who had been engaged in what they regarded as less serious conduct, but would report conduct such as stealing from a burglary scene or accepting a kickback.
    ——-

    The reports make Reg’s statement..”What I will assert and stand by is that “all” cops know this practice is widespread, and if they deny it’s widespread, they’re lying”
    as assinine as anything anyone could post here.

    Searching out more ways to show police in a negative light is just more cop hate from a cop hater.

  • To even rely on a report from 2000 to make idiotic claims about what’s taking place in law enforcement in 2010 is grasping at straws to back up the cop hate some people feel as in the case of Reg.

    Because as we all know nothing has changed in law enforcement or any other section of society in the last 10 years.

    Maybe someone should wake up Rip Van Reggie and have him join us in the present.

  • Rob Thomas babbles:
    <blockquote.Moore, if blackwater is so reliable abroad, why wouldn’t you want them policing the streets here?
    Because I like having sworn peace officers as police, and the local governments do a decent job of it. Blackwater is especially good at combat operations, which aren’t too often needed here. But, you know, I wouldn’t object strenuously to private police – I’m just more comfortable with what I’ve grown used to.

    Whoever is the most capable of policing a neighborhood should be deputized to do so, right?

    Are your hallucinations frequent? I never said that or anything like it.

    Either you have something personally or financially invested in the police officers’ union, or you’re a leftist on labor. Has to be one of the two. Which is it?

    Wow, I’m caught on the horns of a phony dilemma. Amazing.

    Rob, surprisingly enough, it is possible to have more than a single dimension of criteria when making a decision.

  • Yeah, SureFuhrer, everything changed after the Knapp Commission in the ’70s, so there was no need in NYC for the Moll Commission in the ’90s. And since Giuliani did such an awsome job of reforming the police department after the non-existent Mollen Commission that…Bernie Kerik isn’t even in jail.

    2000 was eons ago..

    Grow the fuck up – you’re a whining little asshole who can’t handle the truth.

  • That’s “Mollen” not “Moll”

    By the way, what’s with those “Brady Lists” that prosecutors must, by law, keep in their records ?

  • SureFuhrer, something I posted is Nazi like? That’s the best you can do Reggie? I certainly can push your buttons anytime can’t I? What a joke you are old man.

    You truly are Rip Van Reggie, now you’re transporting yourself and your convuluted thought process to the 70’s in what, an attempt to show a connection with law enforcement then and now? I’m betting you watch Dragnet and Adam 12 to keep up on current police trends as well.

    You’re attempt to compare policing in N.Y. no matter the decade, to out here or anyone else, is laughable as is your constant attempts to sound like you’re some kind of bad ass with your inability to control your posts.

    The cowards and frauds I’ve dealt with in real life always sound just like you Reggie. Now before you explode get up and turn on the tv, have some warm milk and watch a new episode of Bonanza, because as far as you know the Cartwright clan are all still alive and working their spread.

    What a dolt.

  • Incidentally, you’ve done nothing but “rage” – nothing substantive in your responsese contradicting the factual stuff I’ve posted from various sources…at all. And nothing logical or coherent to counter the argument that these perennial problems with major police corruption are still with us. Just whining and lashing out with the usual crapola.

    You’re a despicable, sad little man.

  • “I certainly can push your buttons anytime can’t I?”

    Actually, uh…no. You’re a joke. And I seem to push your buttons since you spout off like a crazed little creep on your beloved playground every time I bring some reality to bear on your ridiculous little world.

  • Reg spews:

    Actually, uh…no. You’re a joke. And I seem to push your buttons since you spout off like a crazed little creep on your beloved playground every time I bring some reality to bear on your ridiculous little world.

    * Note, the last 3 rants are from Reg. JeJeJeJe.

  • “JeJeJeJe.”

    You people are like children. When is this blog comment section going to grow up? It’s like an elementary school playground, with kids rooting on others to fight (“nice job pushing buttons”), snickering in a circle, and taking little shots like scavenging hyenas. Not to mention the folks with 18 pseudonyms, just adding to the peanut-gallery chaos. Oh, and of course the links to obsessive websites that others make about other commenters.

    It would be nice if the comments could reflect the intelligent and mature postings of the blogger.

  • Moore and “nocturnal” – check out the amount of rage inflicted on this thread vs. my commenst, which mostly consisted of substance. You’re a couple of morons – and in Moore’s case a fat crypto-nazi creep. SureFire has shown once again that he can’t handle shit, except to explode. What a bunch of babies you guys are.

  • By the way, the DOJ report SureFire quotes above support my statements as much as anything I’ve posted from it.
    Aside from utterly predictable response to an interviewer regarding “acceptable” levels of force, there’s this –
    “The police “code of silence” affects an officer’s willingness to report improper police behavior”

    The fact that this was, among a lot of “right” answers to interview questions, a key finding is damning to say the least.

  • See how easy it is to push Reg’s buttons. He’s sort of like a video slot machine – you push Reg’s buttons, there’s lots of confusion, and then insults line up randomly.

    This time I got the “fat crypto-nazi creep” set. No payout for that though, because this slot machine is a pure loser.

  • Two points.

    First, re: Blackwater. No doubt it does some things well. But my friend the Marine warrant officer who has done four tours of Iraq and is preparing to visit Afghanistan, states unequivocally that they time and time again have disrupted his and other efforts to gain the trust of local Iraqi leaders and people in general. According to him, the Blackwater guys are confrontational and disrespectful, what we elders might think of as “ugly Americans.” They are making the transfer of authority harder not easier. In his view, they are not “crack troops,” they are counter-productive cowboys.

    Second, re Alex Kozinski. There is no question that he is more colorful than a judge ought really to be. He is far from stupid…he is extremely bright. He is intimidating in oral argument, and is far more conservative than liberal. I do believe he considers himself a libertarian, and it is clear that he takes the right to privacy very seriously. His concern about living in the fishbowl should be taken seriously. The world is changing in a way that is tending to remove the privacy protection arising from eons of distance from others. Plane travel and communications technology have eliminated the protection that nature provided. It is worth considering whether our species can survive and thrive without some measure of privacy. If there is a question, it makes sense that the law should evolve to provide cover that nature no longer can. I think that is what Kozinski is thinking about, and he may be right.

  • I don’t understand what you’re talking about Scott. Wasn’t it you, or was it Brian that kept insisting on me showing links? As it is maybe you should comment on the subject and quit acting like a hall monitor.

    I posted on the subject matter, Reg doesn’t agree and so he goes off the deep end, it’s his s.o.p. My firing back at him is pretty much mine, welcome to our world. Reg calling me a Nazi shows he’s not reading what I post, just seeing my name on it and reacting in his usual manner. Oh wait, I see Moore’s a Nazi as well and I’m the one full of rage after handing Reg another ass kicking? Please…

    I pretty much agree with what Michael wrote but there should never be a way a convicted felon should be able to secrete a gun in a couch cushion and scream about a violation of his privacy that when looking at all the facts, didn’t exist.

    Only my opinion and the majority of judges as well.

    By the way Scott, I started this thread responding to the remarks of Rob Thomas. When Reg threw up his first comment, #11, it was full of lies and assumptions he claimed were facts that he could not defend. He spends the rest of the thread calling names and attempting to back up his supposed “facts” and just can’t do it. Bottom line and to make it real simple, he’s a liar and a poor looser with a filthy mouth.

    End of story.

  • John Moore – you’ve advocated hanging US journalists and accused Walter Cronkite of being a traitor. Now go crawl back into your crypt-Nazi hole. You are what you are. You’re button has been officially pushed.

    SureFire – the only thing not factual about my comment #11 was saying “always” (implying every time) as opposed to “commonly” (noting it is ‘standard operating procedure’ among many officers and everyone knows it.) I presented more evidence to back that up than you’ve ever presented for anything you’ve ever asserted here. Even your attempt to find some other piece of one report I quoted that wasn’t as damning, in fact substantiated the key point. I didn’t “spend the rest of the thread calliing names” – that “cop-hater” garbage is your specialty. You insist I’m a cop-hater for referencing sources that substantiate what I was referring to. You can’t handle the truth. You also go nuts and simply start raging when, in crazy John Moore’s words, your buttons are pushed. You must have been quite a piece of work attempting to act as a “law enforcement professional.” With your hate, invective and inability to argue from anything other than resentments and rage that has been on display here, you’re a disgrace to the badge.

  • So weak, a story about a crooked N.O. cop, like most of law enforcement operates in that manner.

    Way to make a point Reggie.

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