SUPREMES AGREE TO HEAR CASE AGAINST (EXTREMELY VILE) FUNERAL PROTESTERS
On top of his grief over his Marine officer son’s death, Albert Snyder had to endure protesters Westboro Baptist Church disrupting the funeral with signs that bore messages like: “Semper Fi Fags,” “Thank God for Dead Soldiers.” Distraught and furious, Snyder sued the Westboro demonstrators in civil court and won, but the decision was reversed on appeal.
Now the case has made it all the way to the Supreme Court, which will hear the issue this fall.
[Albert] Snyder and his late son, Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, killed in Iraq, have become the public faces of more than 200 families that have seen funerals of loved ones picketed by members of a tiny church who say the deaths of U.S. soldiers are God’s retribution for the nation’s tolerance of homosexuality.
The collision of privacy rights and the Constitution’s protection of free speech will be heard by the Supreme Court in the fall. Snyder’s lawyer, Sean Summers, recently filed his brief to the court, and the fortuitous deadline for others to support Snyder is the day after Memorial Day.
Many First Amendment scholars are wondering why the Supremes took the case, arguing that, as hideous and cruel as the protest was, it is also protected speech.
(I wondered the same thing.)
In any event, it will be a significant case to watch.
And in the meantime, our hearts go out to Albert Snyder, and all the parents of service men and women who have had to grieve for their kids this past weekend.
CALIFORNIA BATTLES FOR THE SOUL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?
At least so says Connie Bruck’s in her long and interesting article about the primary battle between Tom Campbell and Carly Fiorina, in the June 7 issue of the New Yorker.
The full story requires a subscription, but here’s a clip to give you the tone:
Ronald Reagan was still in the White House the last time a Republican was elected to the Senate from California, in 1988. This year, Republicans believe, will be different. The candidate who wins the primary may have a good chance of defeating Barbara Boxer, who faces an anti-incumbent mood and discontent over the state’s foundering economy. The national Republican Party has seized upon the race as a bellwether. Tom Campbell, a five-term Republican congressman who describes himself as a fiscal conservative and social moderate—he is pro-choice and supports gay marriage—believes this is his year. Recent polls show, however, that his opponent, Carly Fiorina, has overtaken his lead, and Campbell’s greatest assets—policy experience and a powerful intellect—now seem to be handicaps. Fiorina, the polished former C.E.O. of Hewlett-Packard, said at a debate on May 6th: “I am not a career politician.” Campbell’s other opponent, Chuck DeVore, casts himself as anti-government. The resolution of this contest will determine a great deal about the future of the Republican Party….
For some reason, however, the Republican gubernatorial primary fight between Steve Poizner and Meg Whitman is just a run the of the mill primary battle (albeit a very expensive one), not a mythic struggle for any party’s soul.
THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT CRIME WAVE!!!! (THAT DOESN’T APPEAR TO EXIST)
The June edition of Social Science Quarterly contains an article that draws correlations between the large crime drop that has occurred across the nation, and immigration patterns.
Newsweek’s Christopher Dickey cites the report and wonders why some of those screaming loudest about immigration issues do so using “facts” about immigrant crime that are entirely and provably false.
Governor Brewer told Fox News and anyone else who’d listen, “We’ve been inundated with criminal activity. It’s just—it’s been outrageous.” Arizona’s Sen. John McCain said last month that the failure to secure the border with Mexico “has led to violence—the worst I have ever seen.” The president of the Arizona Association of Sheriffs, Paul Babeu of Pinal County, claims, “Crime is off the chart in this state.”
What the FBI chart actually shows is that the incidence of violent crime in Arizona declined dramatically in the last two years.
Crime is also down in most cities that have the largest influx of immigrants.
But don’t believe me: just take your own walk through the stats at the FBI’s recently released Uniform crime Report.
GEORGIA ASKS HOW TO TURN LAWBREAKERS INTO TAXPAYERS (NOTE: WHY ISN’T CALIFORNIA BOTHERING TO ASK THE SAME QUESTION?)
In a two part feature, the Atlanta Journal Constitution explores the issue. Here’s how Part I begins:
As states across the nation recognize that prison costs are busting tight budgets and doing little to reform offenders, many governors and legislators are thinking outside the cell.
Mississippi lawmakers decided in 2008 to cut prison costs by allowing all nonviolent offenders to be considered for parole after serving 25 percent of a sentence instead of 85 percent.
In Texas, a bipartisan effort in 2007 avoided $2 billion in costs to build and operate new prisons by spending $241 million on alternatives: stepped-up probation and parole programs, new halfway houses and specialty courts devoted to offenders with drug issues and mental health problems.
North Carolina announced in April a bipartisan initiative to develop a new research-driven approach to public safety that is expected to reduce prison costs by investing in alternatives that are more effective.
South Carolina’s Legislature last week approved a landmark sentencing reform package designed to save the state $400 million over the next five years by reducing incarceration of nonviolent offenders and more closely supervising released inmates to reduce recidivism.
Then the AJC asks: What about Georgia?
In Part 2, the AJC gives some ideas “that could help Georgia reduce its need for prison beds. ”
Interestingly, California—the state with the largest prison population in the nation—is not on the AJC’s list of states instituting cost saving and prisoner rehabilitating reform.
A FATHER CONTEMPLATES MEMORIAL DAY
In an LA Times Op Ed a father whose son was killed three years ago in Iraq reflects on Memorial Day.
Here’s a clip:
For us, personal loss has rendered the last Monday in May into the day of remembrance that it was originally intended to be. Yet loss has also invested Memorial Day with political significance, posing uncomfortable questions.
The fallen gave their lives so we might enjoy freedom: However comforting, this commonplace assertion qualifies at best as a half-truth. Who can doubt that the soldier killed in battle at Gettysburg or on Omaha Beach died while advancing the cause of liberty? Whether one can say the same about the Americans who lost their lives assaulting Mexico City in 1847, suppressing Filipino demands for independence after 1898 or chasing rebels in 1920s Nicaragua is less clear, however.
In recent decades especially, the connection between American military intervention and American freedom has become ever more tenuous….
I think it’s futile for you to be posting evidence-based analysis of the illegal immigration issue – particularly in relation to the sub-set factor of the impact on crime – when these are discussions that lend themselves best to gut-checks, knee-jerks, anecdotes, emotion and – ultimately – truthiness.
It IS somewhat satisfying to watch John McCain “finish his danged descent”…into one of the creepiest, least credible men in American politics. Beltway journalists who have hyped this guy for several decades as “courageous” or “straight-talking” owe the American people an apology. The unbending through-line of McCain’s career has been his narcissism. Also, he’s obviously none too bright. It’s fitting to the increasingly tawdry McCain narrative that on Memorial Day, our “hero” was in the headlines advising a whole segment of Americans who seek to serve, “Get off my lawn” or he’d stir up a filibuster. Asshole.
Where, if anywhere, does the FBI report list the immigration status of known criminal offenders, those that have been booked for crimes during the past two years? I couldn’t find it but did note a reduction of only 10 murders between 2008-2009 in the Arizona cities with populations over 100,000. Any reduction is fine but that’s not huge by any means.
Typical liberal b.s.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/cops_furious_at_don_kill_bill_SkSRn51FKIeHqY85ZHJSYI
That Westbro Baptist Church is remarkable for its ability to become a nuisance in so many places seemingly at once: they were in LA last year, picketing not only high-profile targets like West Hollywood city, but even Fairfax High for its encouraging equal rights to gay students. Appalling enough, that they upset kids, but to picket a funeral with such hateful rhetoric means they’re not even entitled to call themselves Christians, having disgraced the name of “Christ.”
As for McCain, he does seem to have emerged as the “real him” since the election – for proof that “he’s not so bright,” just look at how he’s forced Sarah Palin onto the national scene. (And in the process, eclipsed himself, both during the campaign and beyond.)
“I couldn’t find it but did note a reduction of only 10 murders between 2008-2009 in the Arizona cities with populations over 100,000.”
I just took a quick look at the numbers, thought those looked wrong and did my own math. There was actually a reduction of 71 reported murders in cities with populations of 100k or greater. The entire reduction came from Phoenix and Tucson.
As an aside, I agree with surefire and Joe Biden that the “shoot to maim” law looks like a really stupid idea.
My mistake was loking at forcible rapes.
So much for getting an accurate number of illegals booked for crimes.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/29/border-states-dealing-illegal-immigrant-crime-data-suggests/
However if you look at the LAPD’s “Most Wanted” Searchable Database, listed by crime/sex/race, of the 206 people now on it the vast majority (some 90-95%) are Hispanic, almost all males. The vast majority of them are wanted for murder. Of the 15 Hit and Runs, all but one are Hispanic. People who are driving without insurance – or in that case usually without a driver’s license – are naturally going to want to flee the consequences of their accidents more than someone else.
These figures speak for themselves when it comes to who’s at loose for the most violent crimes in this city. And this is “Most Wanted,” not all crimes committed, so it would stand to reason that these people are still wanted because they slipped through the southern borders and went “home.” (There are no stats for how many were illegal.)
The stats may be very different for another CA city, say a small, affluent town in the north, like in San Marino. By the same token, stats for AZ as a whole may not reflect what the people are experiencing in the border towns, so their real-life experience is in no way negated by them.
I hate to point this out since it sort of dovetails into Sure Fire’s point of view, but this is a matter of facts, not ideology. Clearly people driving deadly vehicles without a license or insurance to cover their victims puts us all at risk, for example. For this reason, I favor some sort of driver ID for illegals but not an identical CA ID, because that would render our own driver licenses less useful. Now, there’s an assumption of citizenship or legal residency. (If I’m wrong, I’ll surely hear about it.) As for the huge percentage of Hispanic murderers on the list, it suggests an uptick in violent, probably gang-related crime. This doesn’t conflict with the fact that overall, nationwide, crime committed by Hispanics may be down or of no statistical difference. And again, because this is just the Most Wanted list, I don’t know what percentage of murder and attempted murder was committed by blacks, whites, Asians – who are just much more likely to be caught.
Oops, when I said you’d get different stats up north, I meant Marin Cty not San Marino – the local, affluent, heavily Asian city near Pasadena. (But it may be true for them as well.)
FOX News: “Border States Deal With More Illegal Immigrant Crime Than Most, Data Suggest”
It took a real genius to report that. I wonder how they figured that out and how long it took.
The most relevant facts are, of course, that crime is down and illegal immigration is down even more, for reasons having nothing to do with this law. But the folks defending a law designed to increase crank civil suits against police departments and politicize rather than professionalize department priorities make statements that are, not to put too fine a point on it, simply false – albeit “feel good” in defense of legislation by morons intent on winning elections.
I’m not sure who is the biggest fraud – Jan Brewer or John McCain. At least J.D.Hayworth is certifiably crazy enough to actually believe the ridiculous shit that comes out of his mouth.
This Atlanta Journal Constitution column by Cynthia Tucker has several quotes and links worth following using conservative sources, but it really doesn’t matter because I don’t believe the people who support this law give a shit about reality or evidence. It’s hysterics and ingrained resentments. There’s really no “debate” except outside the circle of true believers.
http://blogs.ajc.com/cynthia-tucker/2010/05/26/crime-is-down-even-in-arizona-without-harsh-laws-toward-illegal-immigrants/?cxntfid=blogs_cynthia_tucker
Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church are a festering boil on the ass of Kansas.
“The most relevant facts are, of course, that crime is down and illegal immigration is down even more, for reasons having nothing to do with this law”.
So less illegal immigrants equals less crime, I agree. Arizona is taking the next step, a step the feds already have on the books, to further reduce crime and people scream about it.
Pretty comical.
“So less illegal immigrants equals less crime”
I don’t want to get into pissing contests with this character, but suffice to say that a course in basic logic is in order. We don’t “agree” because an inference is being drawn that isn’t driven by any data, unless you already believe it as a matter of faith. No knowledgable person would assume causality from these two trends. Certainly no “law enforcement professional” with any credibility or even pretensions to seriousness would argue the recent reduction in illegal immigration due to the economic collapse – particularly in the local AZ housing construction sector – with “probable cause” of a much longer term trend in declining crime rates. I’m not an expert – not even close – but I know that this assertion is as close to ridiculous as it gets. I could say more, given the braggadocio we’ve been subjected to about a great “wealth” of experience, but I’ll stop here. As I said, there is nothing but crude ideology and resentments driving these arguments.
Pretty comical indeed.
HE Celeste–
Tell the family of that Arizona rancher murdered a couple months ago by an illegal alien that these crime stats show they have nothing to fear….I’m sure they’ll appreciate the heads up.
Really, your contempt for innocent victims of crime (as you champion the criminals who victimize them) has gone way past bad form and self parody and is now entering a realm I can’t adequately describe under your new comment policy.
“So less illegal immigrants equals less crime”
Which fails to explain New York City’s declining crime rate. There are an estimated 500,000 illegal immigrants in New York. Mexicans (those “darker-skinned, Spanish speak[ers]”) you referred to in an earlier thread) are the fastest growing ethnic group in NYC. Many of them have settled in my neighborhood, Jackson Heights and even more in nearby Corona.
Take a look at this pdf file of the Compstat report. Pay special attention to the historical perspective: every crime stat listed is down except for grand larceny, down by more double digits, I might add.
Some other precincts with some more “darker skinned Spanish speak[ers]” you might want to check out are the 34th, 72nd and 115th (my precinct).
Really, your contempt for innocent victims of crime (as you champion the criminals who victimize them) has gone way past bad form and self parody and is now entering a realm I can’t adequately describe under your new comment policy.
Somehow I don’t think the new comment policy has stopped you. If you came into my living room and talked me like that the next thing you would see would be the door.
” your contempt for innocent victims of crime”
Go soak your head Winny. You’re foaming at the mouth.
Winny, Randy beat me to it.
Your “contempt for victims” mantra, is astonishingly hostile, logic-free and not on the same planet as true.
I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt. That clearly isn’t working.
This is your first and last warning. I’d be happy to have you around if you can give and receive respect as you comment. If not, please go somewhere else.
This is a social justice news website. That is it’s expressed purpose. If that doesn’t work for you, there are plenty of other places to go.
Your contention that I have contempt for crime victims is deeply offensive to me. You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
(Apologies to readers who have heard what I am about to say before, but it seems I need to repeat it from time to time.)
I’ve been to more than 30 funerals for young men and women I knew well and cared about who were the victims of gang violence. I’ve sat way too many times with their mothers, sisters, brothers, kids as they tried to bear the unbearable. I have my own internal scars from the sorrow of those deaths, some of which will never go away. Not ever.
Moreover there is no one at any news outlet or blog in LA—save the Los Angeles Times—who wrote more about the death of Lily Burk. I did so because it was the best way I knew to cope with my own sense of grief for her parents.
Contempt for victims? Really, how fucking dare you.
Your attitude solves nothing, saves nobody. It merely gives you permission to demonize.
As for the horrible murder of Cochise County rancher Rob Krentz, whose family has ranched the area for over a century, he is believed to have been killed by a drug smuggler—AKA a criminal. Whoever it was who took his life was a murderer—not a representative for illegal immigrants.
I’ve spent time talking to people who live in the drug corridor around Douglass and I understand they are living through a truly awful situation. However, using Rob Krentz’s family’s tragedy as a weapon against illegal immigrants generally does nothing to honor his death or to prevent the deaths of others,
Winny, whether you stay a commenter here or not is now up to you. But staying will require a change.
I like when Reg runs from his own words, it shows what he’s truly made of. Gee, less illegal immigrants coming here and crime rates are going down, but there’s no proven connection so no agreement from the guy who put it out there in the first place, right? You are right about not being an expert though Reg.
Considering that in many states, the one in the story far below is an example, the percentage of illegal’s in jail is usually higher than their percentage of the population, someone using logic could see where crime rates would fall as illegal immigration is reduced. The only reason Reg needs data is because it was my post; he knows what the fucking facts are unless he’s been living under a rock, it’s just more posturing from the king of b.s.
The truth is that a percentage of the illegal population has created havoc here when it comes to criminal behavior. Thousands of U.S. citizens, not hundreds but fucking thousands, have been killed by illegal’s over the past decade but to at least to one person here it’s more egregious that someone might have to carry their passport in certain locales than allow states to address a problem the feds have left fester for way too long. Correct me if I’m wrong about that Randy.
I would think these thousands of victims were due a little social justice of their own. Or don’t they fit the criteria needed? I’m being serious now Celeste because I truly don’t see how you decide who to go to bat for and who gets no real attention at all.
By the way Randy it’s kind of fucking weak to comment on what I said in another thread out of context. I described what both Mexicans and Canadians looked like in that thread and as someone with both Persians and Hispanics in my extended family, blood relatives by the way; your weak ass backhanded attempt to throw the race card at me is fucking b.s. Of course I pretty much expect that type of low brow response from the extreme liberal left so I’m not surprised, but its total stupidity.
Hey Celeste, Reg never shows a measure of respect to me or anyone else on the right, not fucking ever, and yet he gets warning after warning. My own opinion is that he’s 100% fucking bitch, which is what he constantly alludes about me with his postings, but I never put it out. Can I at least this once without getting spanked? (Hey Reg buddy, that’s coming from a Medal of Valor winner and a cop submitted for a nation wide Top Cop award in 1996, among many other commendations and awards. That will go real well with your thoughts about my “braggadocio” that you’ve been subjected to bitch). Come on now Celeste give me this one moment to converse with the board reprobate and I promise to get back to being nice and respectful next post.
I could have posted this whole little rant of mine in a much softer way but since I saw how you went off figured I could have a moment.
Would have linked this but couldn’t, it’s from a cop website.
Good night.
Illegal Immigrants Crime Spree in WA.
Photo: killer Luna
WATCHVIDEO
One woman is dead and two others were raped recently and police say each crime was committed by a different illegal immigrant. One of the sexual assaults happened just hours before the Seattle city council passed an ordinance boycotting Arizona over its new immigration law.
Gregorio Luna Luna had a history of beating up his live-in girlfriend Griselda Ocampo Meza. He was also in the U.S. illegally. On May 1, Luna Luna was deported to Mexico. Three weeks later Meza was murdered in her apartment in a violent knife attack.
Franklin County prosecutors say Luna Luna slipped past the border again and killed Meza in front of their five year old son. He’s in the county jail awaiting trial.
A suspected rapist in Edmonds, Washington has been deported at least 4 times according to Snohomish County prosecutors. Jose Lopez Madrigal has been charged with raping a woman next to a dumpster behind a Safeway store. A witness to the attack alerted police and Madrigal was taken into custody.
An illegal immigrant just convicted of his possible 3rd strike in Whatcom county- a rape of a homeless woman- has been deported to Mexico five times.
Washington State ranks 11th in the nation in the number of illegal immigrants with an estimated 150,000. They make up 2% of the state’s population, but account for 4.5% of those in Washington prisons. In Franklin County, 14% of the jail bookings are illegal immigrants.
Currently, over half of the individuals on the Washington State Patrol’s Most Wanted List are suspected illegal immigrants. 18 of the 26 on the list are Hispanic with no place of birth identified. Most are wanted for vehicular homicide and they have languished on the Most Wanted list for several years.
There are about 50,000 felony warrants currently issued in Washington State and according to a source in the U.S. Marshall’s office between 30-40 percent are believed to be illegal immigrants.
We asked the State Patrol about the immigration status of the most wanted suspects and they told us they didn’t know. Officials say that information is not important in trying to locate the individuals.
The U.S. Marshall’s Service disagrees. Leaders of the region’s fugitive task force say knowing immigration status can be very important to an investigation. In fact, the Marshall’s have an office in Mexico to help with cross-border cases.
Last week, the city of Tacoma joined Seattle in admonishing Arizona for its immigration law. While the council did not go so far as passing a boycott, the ordinance does criticize Arizona for its stand against illegal immigration.
I suppose, everybody needs to vent from time to time.
We can both start fresh tomorrow.
Another contribution from Mr. Bluster. Sorry fella – you’ve been taken down twice talking nonsense. First claiming your “experience” gives you first-hand knowledge of what it’s like to police when the cops put illegal immigration status front and center. Second making an absolutely false assertion of causality. Sorry that you keep coming up short in the logic department. It’s not my fault. Anecdotes aren’t causality and presumptions aren’t experience,both of which you’ve claimed. And in fact, anyone who is even half-informed knows what that the causality claimed regarding national lower crime rates and the recent fall in illegal immigration isn’t even close to reality. Now get back up to your speed – blow hard and call me a bitch. Don’t ask for respect and act like a fool with a hard-on for yourself.
A guy who writes for the New York Post (FOX News in print) has used this fake “crime is soaring along with illegal immigration” line that I criticized (and get called “bitch” for pointing out that it is totally false.) Here’s a take-down of the right-wing hack aka Post columnist Ralph Peters – it’s relevant to the discussion here, to my criticism of McCain, Brewer and various other hysterics who are in serious need of a carton of Depends:
http://mediamatters.org/research/201004290029
Note that the lowering of crime rates is over a ten year period, while the recent rather large drops in illegal immigration I noted earlier have been directly linked to the period of the past two years, when the economy in the US tanked and unemployment climbed. In particular the collapse of the Arizona housing market killed a lot of the regional jobs held by illegals. In fact, the trend of crime rates going down illegal immigration started when illegal immigration was actually increasing. I don’t want to cause anyone pain or loss of self-esteem by bringing facts or real-world co-relations into play, but those are the breaks. I’m a real bitch when it comes to backing up shit one is spouting with something other than anecdotes and unhinged assertions.
I think I’ll let Sherlock Holmes have the last word here, because he gets pretty foul and my inclination is not to suffer fools, but just tell them to get fucked. That would be wrong.
There’s a reduntant “illegal immigration” in one sentence…probably pretty obvious.
I had my fun yesterday Celeste and Reg couldn’t take me down if he had the entire Raiders D-Line with him. The last thing his worn out old useless ass should ever talk about is the language of others, what an arrogant piece of work this guy is.
Keep dreaming old man.
By the way Randy it’s kind of fucking weak to comment on what I said in another thread out of context. I described what both Mexicans and Canadians looked like in that thread and as someone with both Persians and Hispanics in my extended family, blood relatives by the way; your weak ass backhanded attempt to throw the race card at me is fucking b.s. Of course I pretty much expect that type of low brow response from the extreme liberal left so I’m not surprised, but its total stupidity.
That’s risible coming from someone who essentially said that my wife has to be treated like a second class citizen in a country that she, unlike us, had to swear allegiance to in order to gain citizenship simply to perpetuate this law in Arizona simply because of her accent and her physical features. You have no moral authority calling anyone’s comments weak.
I note that you completely ignored the facts that I posted above regarding the lower crime rates in communities here in NYC with large illegal immigrant populations.
You’re my enemy Reg, I don’t want respect from a bitter twisted old man.
Gee Randy, did you miss my Washington post? Get real man, I don’t comment on every piece of everyone’s post and neither do you. My opinion is you’re way over the top on thinking your wife’s going to be treated like a second class citizen, it’s liberal nonsense but think what you want, I don’t care.
You played the race card though, not me.
My opinion is you’re way over the top on thinking your wife’s going to be treated like a second class citizen, it’s liberal nonsense but think what you want, I don’t care.
I’m sure you know the old saying about opinions.
As for playing the race card, spare me: you were the one who referred to darker-skinned Spanish speaking people.
My opinion is you’re way over the top on thinking your wife’s going to be treated like a second class citizen, it’s liberal nonsense but think what you want, I don’t care.
And the fact that actual American citizens have been deported or came close to deportation is nonsense? Spare me your condescension.
The truth is that a percentage of the illegal population has created havoc here when it comes to criminal behavior. Thousands of U.S. citizens, not hundreds but fucking thousands, have been killed by illegal’s over the past decade but to at least to one person here it’s more egregious that someone might have to carry their passport in certain locales than allow states to address a problem the feds have left fester for way too long. Correct me if I’m wrong about that Randy.
That’s a strawman argument. I have no problem with everyone having to carry their passport. I do have a problem with any group being singled out because of their ethnic background. You might want to acquaint yourself with the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.
Finally, you made the comment that “less illegal immigrants equal less crime” and I provided substantial statistical – not anecdotal – evidence of New York City’s reduced crime in police precincts with significant illegsl immigrant populations. So without rancor, let me ask you this: what is New York doing right?
“You’re my enemy, Reg.”
You flatter yourself.
Randy – if the statistics showed otherwise than they do – i.e. even if they only showed a correlation, if not provable causality, of “increased illegal immigration=increased crime”, they would be claimed, justifiably, as certain evidence for the arguments we’re hearing about rising crime rates and rising illegal immigration. Since they don’t, they’re ignored – and rather aggressively ignored. Or bent against both facts and logic, in order to keep fake “facts” and false “causation” on life support.
I made the point in my first comment here that some people literally don’t care about evidence-based analysis – they want to believe what they want to believe. Arguing using actual evidence only brings out more hostility – not even a glimmer of a second thought or openness to anything other than closely held “true beliefs”, supported solely by anecdotes and heightened anger. This is a futile game and, frankly, there’s no way to indulge it without getting soiled by cranks and mudslingers. Just saying…and “without rancor.”
Incidentally, when I made that first comment I was “half-joking.” I think, in the further context that’s unfolded, there’s not even a hint of a joke left in that observation.
It’s the Colbertian view of the world.
You guys keep kissing each other’s asses, it’s not like you don’t have a history of it. You have no business talking about who played the race card Randy or you would have posted my entire comment on race and the Arizona law. I talked about whites as well didn’t I?
Here’s the whole comment which shows you’re shallow, a liar and can’t be trusted to be anything but a typical liberal phony.
————–
I’m sure you’ve heard that Obama has ok’d sending something like 1200 troops to the Arizona/Mexico border due to the problems there. How many troops were sent to our northern border with Canada? You know and I know its zero because there is no need. The problem is to the south.
The country to our south is a Spanish speaking one and the people are for the most part darker skinned than many here. In Canada that doesn’t apply. Switch their locations with the same problems as now and light skinned people speaking English have the problem with an Arizona type law.
Another goofy liberal spreading hate and lies.
Congresswoman: White supremacists behind Arizona immigration law
WHITTIER – Rep. Linda Sanchez told a local Democratic Club Tuesday that she believes the white supremacist groups were behind the Arizona law on immigration.
“The Arizona laws are not a mistake,” said Sanchez, D-Lakewood, referring to Arizona’s S.B. 1070, that requires police enforcing another law to question a person about his or her immigration status if there is “reasonable suspicion” that the person is in the United States illegally and makes it a state crime to be in the country illegally.
“They’re not accidental or one person’s crazy idea.”. “There’s a concerted effort behind promoting these kinds of laws on a state-by-state basis by people who have ties to white supremacy groups,” Sanchez said.
“It’s been documented. It’s not mainstream politics. (Legislators) are being approached by folks, who are front organizations who are white supremacist hate groups. They propose the language of these bills and get people to carry these bills in the state legislatures,” she said…
So wanting to be a Rule of Law city is bad because you want to maintain a certain quality of life for your residents? This sanctuary city thing, in other words allowing illegals to do pretty much exactly what they want to do without fear of any actions from a city government, is the good thing to do.
I’ll bet I can show where that’s not the case in many areas, we can start with San Francisco.
SACRAMENTO – For much of the past year, the Costa Mesa City Council has been focused on its dual goals of blocking development at the Orange County Fairgrounds and obstructing illegal immigration.
Its recent efforts on illegal immigration, however, may now have endangered the future of the fairgrounds.
This month, Costa Mesa officials announced they had selected a private firm that they hope will ultimately join the city in buying the fairgrounds from the state.
Such a transaction would require approval from the state Legislature, but some Latino lawmakers are now threatening to block it after the City Council last week declared Costa Mesa a “Rule of Law City” where people who are in this country illegally are not welcome.
“The city government of Costa Mesa should not think that they can act with immunity as it relates to these matters,” said State Sen. Gilbert Cedillo, D-Los Angeles , chairman of the California Latino Legislative Caucus. “We don’t support that. We don’t sanction that.”
Cedillo said the 25-member Latino caucus has had informal discussions about blocking any fairground legislation in direct response to Costa Mesa’s resolution.
Costa Mesa officials are now scrambling to move forward on the deal. They say they’re disappointed by the possible block, saying that the Sacramento lawmakers are playing politics that will ultimately end up penalizing the public.
“It will be unfortunate if this is the reason why the city of Costa Mesa can’t buy the fairgrounds,” said Councilwoman Katrina Foley, who has helped lead the way on the fairgrounds deal. “It’s all politics. That’s all this is.”
If the Legislature doesn’t approve the deal, the state’s only other option may very well be selling the fairgrounds to a private developer, and with the state facing a $19.1 billion deficit, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger appears insistent on selling the property.
MAYOR STANDS BY RESOLUTION
The resolution came at the behest of Costa Mesa Mayor Allan Mansoor – a long-time opponent of illegal immigration who is currently running for State Assembly.
“So let me get this straight? They want to hold kids hostage and take away their ice cream and their fairgrounds for their own political gain against me? That is exactly what is wrong with Sacramento,” Mansoor said. “If they kill the fairground sale for the city, that’s exactly what they’re doing.”
The council voted 4-0 in favor of the resolution. Foley did not vote because she was absent.
“I just think that it’s politics taking precedent over people and that’s exactly…that’s no different from what Mansoor is doing,” Foley said.
She said the federal government – not cities – should tackle immigration issues.
She called the resolution “political grandstanding” on Mansoor’s part.
“Is the timing good? Apparently not,” she said. “But it wasn’t my proposal. I didn’t bring it forward.”
Latino caucus members account for roughly 20 percent of both the State Assembly and State Senate, but Cedillo, the Latino caucus chair, noted that other lawmakers, like Senate Leader Darrell Steinberg, have come out in strong opposition to Arizona’s new anti-illegal immigration law and likely would support the caucus’ opposition to Costa Mesa.
“We’re concerned about Arizona and we can’t be concerned about Arizona and look to Arizona and say we’re not going to stand by idly as you violate people’s constitutional rights and then turn a blind eye to Costa Mesa,” Cedillo said. “And so we’re very concerned. Violations of people’s human rights and civil rights should be a concern for all people.”
Three lawmakers who represent parts of Orange County are members of the Latino caucus: State Sen. Lou Correa , D-Santa Ana, and assemblymen Jose Solorio , D-Santa Ana, and Tony Mendoza, D-Artesia, who is the vice chairman of the Latino caucus. All three lawmakers said they had some concerns about Costa Mesa’s recent resolution.
“I remain supportive of Costa Mesa’s efforts to buy the Orange County Fairgrounds,” Solorio said in an email.
Earlier this year, he introduced a bill to stop the sale of the fairgrounds when it looked like the state might auction it to a private developer.
“In addition to my own concerns, I’ve heard from numerous legislators and residents throughout California that they are disappointed with Costa Mesa’s past and current anti-immigrant resolutions,” Solorio said. “At this point, it’s up to the Governor’s office to decide if they want to move forward with Costa Mesa’s offer. If and when the Governor’s office wants to partner with the Legislature on a bill to help sell the Orange County Fairgrounds, I have a bill ready to help.”
Costa Mesa officials last met with representatives from the governor’s office a week ago where they discussed how they had selected the firm Facilities Management West to contract with the city to operate the Orange County Fairgrounds.
The city is looking to purchase the 150-acre site from the state for $96 million and have an operator take on the debt services to protect taxpayers from the transaction. Facilities Management West would enter into exclusive negotiations for the operation of the fairgrounds.
DAMAGE CONTROL
Foley is in the process of playing damage control, contacting some of the Latino lawmakers, urging them to stay on course with the fairgrounds deal.
“If they are committed to the public process and public ownership model why would they derail it, especially when Mansoor is going to be gone soon,” she said of his bid for Assembly.
At a Los Amigos meeting – made up of Latino leaders – Wednesday, group member Zeke Hernandez announced that he was in the process of also drafting a plan that would put pressure on Costa Mesa to reverse their course on illegal immigration. This included speaking with Latino legislators in Sacramento about the fairgrounds deal. Last week, Hernandez, president of the Santa Ana League of United Latin American Citizens Council, called for Costa Mesa residents to evacuate the city in response to the Rule of Law resolution.
Sen. Correa, for his part, said he’ll be reviewing any proposed deal carefully. He acknowledged that “as an individual that feels some emotion” about immigration issues, Costa Mesa’s declaration as a Rule of Law City will play a role in his analysis. But he added, “There are other factors that I’ll be looking at as well.”
“I have some questions (about) the new Costa Mesa deal and I’m going to be looking at the totality of the circumstances surrounding Costa Mesa, what the objectives are now of this new proposed plan,” he said. “…Some of the council members told me that the reason they wanted to preserve it as a fairground (was so that it could be) open to all, that this was going to be a marketplace of products where all of my constituents would come and shop, all my taxpayers would come and shop. We’ll see if that is in fact the case.”
Meanwhile, Mendoza, the vice chairman of the Latino caucus, who represents a small piece of Orange County, said he’s prepared to vote against any Costa Mesa deal. He said Costa Mesa’s recent resolution was political posturing and he’s not going to put up with it.
“If they’re playing political games in the middle of a political negotiation,” he said, “they’re playing with fire.”
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/36249_Video-_The_White_Supremacist_Roots_of_Arizonas_Immigration_Law
I’m sorry you’re having a bad day, Sherlock…
I wrote So without rancor, let me ask you this: what is New York doing right?
and instead I got more bile spewed in my direction.
I have plenty of blonde, blue-eyed Latino friends, from Brazil, from Argentina, from Guatemala and Costa Rica. You’re the one who brought up the subject of darker skin, not me. I could truly care less in what context you brought it up. I found it offensive.
I find it interesting that after multiple mentions of New York’s statistically and not anecdotally low crime rate notwithstanding the number of illegal immigrants living in the city, you still have yet to have an explanation for it.
I find it offensive that someone who thinks someone simply mentioning a skin color would be so put out about it they’d cry like a baby over it after posting it in the out of context manner you did to attempt to label me as racist.
You give people like em a reason to laugh at liberals, thanks. I don’t have to explain one cities stats to anyone, what weak b.s. you post, have your pal Reg do it.
Ha ha, Reg has lost his mind, I might as well use Glen Beck for all my info, too funny.
You’re down 3, Sherlock.
Maddow is like a female Randy. Guilt by association is what Reg is the game Reg is playing but when the same type comments have been thrown at Obama he has an all to familiar Reg melt down.
More total b.s from the king of it.
Since Kris Kobach – the lawyer who boasts of writing the bill and who is currently being paid $300 an hour by Cowboy Joe Arapiao to help him enforce it – accused a guy he was running against for Congress of supporting “homosexual pedophilia” because he had backing from the Human Rights Campaign, I can’t really do a boo-fucking-hoo for FAIR’s little Kris getting stained by the group’s racist associations. As far as the law’s sponsor Russell Pearce goes, he’s apparently sorry…that he got caught sending out an overtly white supremacist email. If you want to whine about this, go ahead. You linked to a Kobach op-ed a while back, as though it were some objective view of the law, and I had to clarify who he was.
You’re the king of b.s. here. You’ve made a series of assertions and charges you can’t back up because they defy both facts and logic. And I have no idea what “Maddow is like a female Randy” means. Maddow is the best opinion journalist on television, bar none. She’s tough but fair and – unlike most of these clowns – does her homework. A great antidote to the filth spewed by FOX. Watching her melt down Rand Paul because he was embarrassed to man up to his beliefs was a real pleasure. She gave him 20 minutes to sell his ideology and he came out of it looking like a total loser.
I’m going to quit posting here for a while because you are too easy to debunk, but perpetually dealing with your whining and weak responses creeps me out and sooner or later I’ll just call you out for what you are and get banned. This silly dance is a waste of my time.
Sure Fire,
You have nothing but name calling in response to my facts. That should tell me and any objective observer all they really need to know.
Regards,
RP
One last bit of info on this – to lay out Kobach’s “guilt by association” with the group he serves as legal counsel for – from another source, the Anti-Defamation League:
History of extremist ties
Controversy over FAIR’s extremist ties dates back to its founder, John Tanton, a pioneer of the anti-immigrant movement. In 1997, he told the Detroit Free Press that if the borders are not secured, America will be overrun by people “defecating and creating garbage and looking for jobs.”
Tanton founded several other organizations, including U.S. English, a group that seeks to make English the official language of the United States. He also publishes The Social Contract, an anti-immigration journal whose Website links to a number of extremist sites, including VDare, a Website that publishes racist, anti-Semitic, and anti-immigrant articles. In fact, the Spring 2008 issue of The Social Contract is devoted entirely to reprinting material that originally appeared on VDare. An article in the Spring 2007 issue of the journal lauds Sam Francis, a deceased white supremacist, as a “formidable and articulate champion.”
The Social Contract also links to American Border Patrol, the virulently anti-Hispanic border vigilante group whose leader, Glenn Spencer, claimed that the Mexican government is “sponsoring the invasion of the United States with hostile intent,” and the Minutemen, a loose network of local chapters around the country, whose primary goal is to keep undocumented immigrants from Mexico out of the United States. The more extreme Minutemen chapters advocate patrols of the Mexican-American border by armed volunteers.
Despite these extremist ties, Tanton remains on the FAIR Board of Directors. Furthermore, FAIR reportedly accepted over $1 million in the 1980s and 1990s from The Pioneer Fund, a foundation that promotes the study of eugenics. Racist scholar J. Philippe Rushton, The Pioneer Fund’s current president, spoke at a 2006 conference organized by American Renaissance, a white supremacist publication and Website.
Maddow is like a female Randy
Given that she has a doctoral degree from Oxford, was a Rhodes scholar and is skilled at research and getting at the facts on issues, you’re complimenting me far more than you’re insulting her, so thanks for the kind words.
Okay – one more that proves whether or not Kobach’s associations make him guilty of anything, he’s a total fucking idiot.
From the Topeka Capitol-Journal in APRIL 2009:
About 65 people gathered on the Statehouse grounds late Saturday morning for a “tea party” rally held to protest the recently approved federal stimulus package and a lack of action by the Legislature regarding illegal aliens in the state.
Skies were gray, and a brisk easterly wind whipped across the grounds as rally-goers gathered near the south steps, listening to speakers while holding American flags and signs expressing support for conservative political values.
“It’s time we take our country back,” Billy Gilchrist told those on hand.
Gilchrist is Topeka chapter leader for the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a group focused on securing U.S. borders and coastal boundaries against unlawful entry.
Residents from Wichita and the Kansas City area were among those attending the rally, which organizers said was one of many “tea party” events being held across the nation.
Former Kansas Republican Party chairman Kris Kobach told rally-goers the gathering was different from the others in that participants recognized the relationship between policies put in place by President Barack Obama’s administration and the influx of illegal aliens into this country. (End clip. My note -That was less than 3 months after Obama came into office and during a large drop in the illegal immigration numbers, due to a tanking economy.)
Okay – enough about fools.
You’re welcome Randy.
Reg is playing 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon with this. I could do that with many of Obama’s associates.
Sure Fire,
You have nothing but name calling in response to my facts. That should tell me and any objective observer all they really need to know.
Regards,
RP
After you flat out called me a racist with a purposeful lie. Run from that all you want Randy but it speaks to your lack of character, not mine.
SF
Celeste–
I’ve only now caught up with your angry reply (#19) to my post (#15).
I’m sorry if I hit a nerve when I wrote of “your contempt for innocent victims of crime.” But that is the distinct impression I have formed after a longtime and careful reading of your blog. And while it might be a bracing charge, it was policy-based, not personal, and framed in temperate language.
By contrast, your reply contains the following:
–“You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.”
–“Really, how fucking dare you.”
–And my favorite (in light of your words above): “I’d be happy to have you around if you can give and receive respect as you comment.”
Wow….I guess there are two standards of “respectful” comments: One that applies to you, one that applies to others.
Hey, your blog, your rules.
But you can’t rewrite the rules of common sense. Common sense says that Lily Burk would be alive today if her killer had been put away under the Three Strikes law–a law that our D.A. and you have such contempt for. So you can brag about having written about Lily Burks’s death more than any other outlet but the LATimes (“I did so because it was the best way I knew to cope with my own sense of grief for her parents”), but your readers need to be reminded of the connection between soft policy and tragic result–a connection that you are only too happy to gloss over. Time and time again.
Have the decency and intellectual honesty to post this….to give me my say. I will pay you back by taking my future thoughts to blogs where the rough and tumble of spirited debate is more valued.
Cheers!
Winny – I’m going to make one more comment here, having read yours. Celeste has her rules, I have mine. In my not-particularly-humble-opinion, if you actually read this blog and have the fucking nerve to tell the host she has “contempt for victims of crime” it’s far less polite than if you told her to go fuck herself or kiss your ass because you think she wrote something you consider stupid or wrong. It’s a perverse charge that strikes at the heart of her integrity. I can’t imagine anyone saying anything more scum-encrusted. You’re a fucking piece of work. Get off your high horse and go to hell. If you want to make an argument that a particular policy is wrong-headed and has “unintended consequences” that’s one thing. Claiming someone with Celeste’s record of writing on criminal justice issues has “contempt for victims of crime” is just sick fucking shit. “decency and intellectual honesty” ? For you to write those words is laughable. You don’t know what they mean. And I’m not being hyperbolic. I’m respondiing directly to a bald accusation you made that, put simply, stinks. I can’t imagine a more calculated insult or more foul language.
Oh, and Surefire – if Kevin Bacon sent out a white supremacist email it’s “no degrees of separation.” If he works for an organization that’s funded and founded by white supremacists it’s arguably “one degree.” You’re now officially down 4. You have the floor. I get too pissed off at some of this rancid shit to comment further for the time being without being able to call fucking morons “fucking morons.”
I have to add I love Winny’s characterization of that insult as a “bracing charge” that is “policy-based” and “not personal.” What world does this person come from ?
Reg–
1.
The policies that Celeste supports will result in more crime victims, not fewer.
2.
Go back and read, say, any thirty days of her blog posts, chosen at random. You will find many, many posts where she complains that people with violent criminal records (gang members, inmates, etc.) are being treated unfairly. You will find precious few posts where she writes about crime and punishment from the POV of innocent victims.
I’m sorry if that offends her, and you. But that’s how I see it.
You say my charge strikes at the heart of her integrity. I don’t view it that way. I’m sure she is a moral person, but as with the ACLU and other advocacy groups on penal issues, I think that Celeste’s abundance of compassion for transgressors has resulted in a see-saw deficit of concern for those they transgress upon.
That’s the last time I ever comment here or read these pages. Thanks to Celeste for the opportunity, and to you for the spirited debate.
Only a flat out coward talks like you do on the internet Reg. I’m guessing this is the one outlet you have to pretend to be a man, pretty sad. Your little play with your “fucking morons” remark shows you to be the simple minded arrogant jerk that you are. Be a man and just say it Reg, oh wait you did but in such a low ball way. Of course you sit in silence as your pal Randy posts out of context words of mind to paint me as a racist, that makes you even more of a fraud, nicely done Reg. You’re opinions are a joke old man.
I agree with Winny’s last post. I’ve asked, just recently, what the criteria are for being a victim here and I got no answer. That’s kind of telling to me. It’s Celeste’s board and she can decide how she determines that but how about an answer?
From the POS whose favorite word for…wait for it…other men he has fantasies about controlling into submission to get “respect” is “bitch.”
You’re so deep in your own shit, it’s sad, really. You’re weak.
“The policies that Celeste supports will result in more crime victims, not fewer.”
Your opinion – express it. But don’t impugn someone’s integrity – someone who has obviously displayed compassion across the board, which is IMHO simply “Christian” whether she knows it or not – and characterize it as “contempt for victims of crimes.” Stand by who you are, if that’s what you want to sling around as “policy disgreement.” It’s cheap – and says way more about your character, intellect and integrity than Celeste’s. As for the other one shooting his mouth off here, it’s just weird, consistently half-baked horseshit steeped in resentments and, frankly, laughable. Okay. I’d probably be better off banned, because this really is maddening dealing with this nonsense.
You’ve got no standing to comment on anyone Reg, you’re the guy who wanted to gun down a guy who scared you to death and had a make believe cop relative, says lots about you don’t it? You buried yourself and any credibility you had as a “man”, long ago.
You talking about “character” is pretty funny.
Guys, this thread is old and although it’s dropped into name calling, you seem to be keeping it down to a dull roar, which I appreciate. But on new threads, remove the personal barbs, please.
SF, you asked about rules (at least I think you did): Winny didn’t attack my POV—which would be fine—she/he repeatedly turned a disagreement into a personal attack. Not fine.
I’m not sure why that distinction isn’t clear.
In any case, I cut her/him slack, hoping it would stop. It didn’t, so I acted accordingly.
Here’s the deal: Disagree virulently with my statements, opinions, POVs, not a problem. Attack me personally— my character, my motives, et al—and you’ll likely get tossed from the blog.
I don’t need that. Nobody does.
If you look, even when I blew up at Winny, I simply shouted about her/his attacks on me. I did not attack Winny personally.
I don’t know if that explanation helps.
Not rules Celeste, criteria to be a victim that merits some typ of mention on this blog. I thought Winny called it right, your victims are many times what I’ve always called suspects where the type of victims I’ve dealt with are hardly mentioned here.
In my world someone victimized by some idiot that gets out of the joint deserves more sympathy than the kid doing life who killed his parents when he was 15 or so. I’ve seen nothing here that makes me believe you see things the same way. That’s not meant to attack your character but to comment on how you seem to prioritize one group over another.
Okay, now I understand what you were asking, SF.
This isn’t a crime blog or a conventional news blog, but a social justice news site/blog, which means its purpose is a bit different.
We all have sympathy for and grieve for victims of crime. No one needs my help for that. It’s the natural human response. And those conventional crimes are, for the most part, covered adequately elsewhere.
I take on the criminal justice (and related) issues that are less likely to be covered and try to put a human face on them when I can.
Having empathy for a lovely, promising young girl who is murdered by some hideous creep or by a gangster’s stray bullet isn’t hard. (Painful, yes, but not difficult.) Having empathy for a 15-year-old who’s gone down a wrong path and shot someone is a lot harder. Ditto the 35-year old who is paroled after ten years in prison.
But it is my contention both situations need to be seen from a clear-eyed, yet empathetic human perspective in order to have more effective public policy and healthier communities.
We live in a big, complicated world that is loaded with problems. We can’t each of us take on all of them. But if we each choose an area to work on and give time and care to it, progress can I hope be made. For better or for worse, this is my chosen area.
SureFire #60 – you’re probably just too stupid to make any sense of what you’ve read here – and God knows it’s not my job to explain anything to you – but you’re making shit up in your need to vent your resentments, which are considerable and obviously a major psychological burden. A fucking moron or a fucking liar. In your need to discredit me, you discredit yourself. If I gave even a little bit of a shit about you, I could go back, find what I’ve written and prove it. But I’d feel like a “bitch”, forced to waste my time cleaning up your shit. You need to find someone else who you can intimidate. You’re a puffed up punk with serious anger issues. You’re so far down on defending any of the alleged “substance” that set this shit off, it’s ridiculous. All you’ve got left is your own bullshit and spin. It’s pathetic.
I’m the moron that’s got you foaming at the mouth first thing this morning Reg, I own you. You should feel like a bitch, it’s what you truly are. You put yourself in the tough spots and then scream when I remind you. Not my fault someone made you their bitch before me and your answer was to execute them on the spot, not kick their ass like any “man” would have wanted to do, that was your call punk.
Now grab that fucking needle Reg, you’ll be back shooting off your mouth like the arrogant gutless fuck you are and you know it.
Geez Celeste I can play the filth game just like Reg but as you saw above where my responses were meant to needle his lame ass he’s the one that goes constantly off the deep end. How can I behave when that’s first thing I see this morning?
Delete this if you want, I’m sure my “bitch” will see it before you do.
Posting at 0445 huh Reg? Bed pan full old man?
Randy replies in #29 to SF, “I have no problem with everyone having to carry their passport,” just to profiling. Well, for the record, I sure DO: that’s the kind of thing that as Janice Hahn said to much ridicule, “has echoes of Nazi Germany.” She could have said ANY communist or fascist regime to the present day and not gotten John Phillips off on that rightwing rant (on his KABC show recently) where he kept demanding how many people had been killed in Arizona – the REAL “straw argument.”
The fact that this law WOULD require ALL of us to carry passports and present them on demand to any authority on demand, with the potential for capricious misuse, in order to avoid charges of profiling only certain racial groups, is an egregious violation of the personal freedom we have now to walk the streets in liberty. To be able to take a walk or go to the grocery store or anywhere without having to grab a passport, making sure it’s in order, or even a driver license. Conservative groups as well as libertarians are generally joined in safeguarding such liberties, especially those who have lived under such communist or fascist regimes and truly appreciate that in America, so far, we have NOT had to subject ourselves to that. Ask anyone who escaped Vietnam, Russia especially before the 90’s, or Cuba, Iran, North Korea, or China etc. etc. today. For that matter, the Arizona law is more like what exists in Mexico vis-a-vis non-Mexican citizens, such as Guatemalans fleeing their violence, than anything in the west.
(In the EU and Japan, many carry their national health cards, not out of requirement but in case of accident – but one of the whole reasons countries JOINED the EU was so that they could cross borders without having to carry passports ANYWHERE – I remember how liberating tha felt, right after the Union. I’m VERY opposed to our going in the opposite direction.)
Just to be clear, now that everybody’s gotten their ya-yas out here, the “fucking moron, fucking liar” and “bitch” routines (reg, and Sure Fire), cannot come to any new threads.
I’d appreciate if you’d both dial them back to a grown-up level here and now.
Thank you.
SBL, I admire your restraint in the midst of the guys shooting at each other.
SBL,
My response was largely rhetorical as there are many Americans who don’t even have passports. Moreover, I was responding to the larger concept of my wife and other legal naturalized citizens having to carry their passports. That would only be legal if all had to carry their passports.
After you flat out called me a racist with a purposeful lie.
I found your comment and the idea that my wife should be treated differently because of her accent and Latina appearance offensive, period. I can assure you of this, however: if we were ever in the position in which a group of US citizens was singled out to carry their passports or other such identifying material to demonstrate their legal status, their wouldbe enough lawsuits generated to cause whatever cost savings moot.
If your intent was not, then so be it: I apologize.
However, let’s be honest here: I pointed out that not all Latinos have darker skin and some are blonde and blue-eyed. Moreover, I started out one post with the following words: “so without rancor” and you attacked me without addressing the issues. I honestly don’t believe that you have an answer as to why New York neighborhoods with large illegal immigrant populations have reduced crime rates.
Randy, I appreciate your restraint too.
Thanks, Celeste. Just for the record, if the supporters of the law living in Arizona don’t want to be perceived as racist, they might want to express a little outrage at nonsense like this.
They don’t care if liberals perceive them that way Randy. People in Arizona are the ones that have real standing on the issue, not you or me, and they support it.
Why would a largely Hispanic area have a reduced crime rate in N.Y.C.? Maybe the same reason that minoroty areas in SoCal realized reduced crime rates. I worked this type of enforcement effort where we brought in a no tolerance rule to the most petty of crimes in some of are most crime ridden neighborhoods along with parole and probation officers, parks and recreation people to set up programs and other types of city services to elevate the quality of life in those areas and lo and behold the crime rate was reduced.
Maybe you should check what factored into that crime rate in N.Y.C. and see if that took place. In the meanwhile we have stories like what’s taken place in Washington State that liberals by and large ignore because it shows the darker side of the “illegal immigration” issue.
Liberals love to spin it everything into race and class, that’s how they attack conservatives they describe as “anti-immigrant” when they are in fact “anti-illegal immigration”, it’s a lie told time and again by the left that holds no water.
http://www.parkerliveonline.com/2010/05/14/tourism-related-questions-about-sb-1070/
I’ll take stats over anecdotes.
As I live in NYC, I can tell you that it’s not an issue of zero tolerance, but an issue of outreach and diversity. The police force in my neighborhood is ethnically diverse: South Asians, Latinos, you name it, pretty much every group is represented here.
Moreover, the subways are filled with immigrants going off to work, even in hard times.
You have stated – with precious little evidence other than anecdotal evidence – that illegal immigration equals high crime and reduced illegal immigration equals reduced crime.
In New York, however, at a time when immigration was increasing, the crime rate was dropping. Facts are troublesome things.
SureFire – the fact that you’re a sociopath is fully on display…you’re pathetic little loser. You don’t “own” anything but your impotent resentments.
I own you even when you’re not in the conversation old man, you make all liberals look like shit, I’m sure they appreciate it you demented light weight fuck.
No liquids late or you’ll be up early again bitch.
Randy, you think the crime rates in SoCal went down with no effort from law enforcement? Anectdotal my ass, look what happened in the high crime areas here than maybe you could comment with some authority on the subject. You run across the country to pick out what happened in one area of N.Y.C. and now you’re an expert? You show one stat there and I show what’s going on in Washington State and your stats are somehow carrying more weight?
Like a true liberal who pretends to care about crime, you really could give a shit. Thousands of dead citizens at the hands of thousands of illegals that shouldn’t be here in the first place. That’s something you or my bitch Reg never comment on and could give afuck about.
What’s even worse is that song and dance about your wife and all the problems she would have in going to Arizona. Problems only some far left loon would bitch about, especially when they live on the other side of the country, what a load.
You can call people “bitch” here? Wow. I was actually told to be on my best behavior here because Celeste had started some strict new policy, or something like that? Maybe it hasn’t gone into effect yet.
Spike, for a variety of reasons, it all went totally off the rails on this thread. But since the thread was old by that time, I let it go.
In retrospect, a mistake.
However, the house rules are in full force on future threads.
No way Reg will abide by those standards Celeste. I mean just look at the last word in his first post, no need for it but the fact is Reg can’t be civil for more than a few sentences.
Well, reg, I challenge you to prove Sure Fire wrong.
Reg called John McCain an asshole. McCain is a public figure.
Sure Fire called Reg a bitch. Reg is a commenter here on this blog.
Off the rail, you say, Celeste? I think Sure Fire obviously views this blog as his own soap box, and has no respect for commenters who disagree with him. This blog is, and will remain, “off the rail” as long as he’s allowed to comment here.
When I first came on this blog I never used obscene language. I only responded in that manner after numerous attacks by Reg with that type of language. You have no idea what you’re talking about Spike/Rob. Still ticked about your banishment I guess.
Celeste announced a new set of rules a few weeks back, Sure Fire, and Reg hasn’t been calling you names since then. Nobody has. Obviously everyone gets the rules except for you. You seem to have a real problem with rules and obeying them. Hopefully you’re better behaved in society.
Try reading #65 and #76 Hot Dog Boy Robbie. I understand your not all that bright boy wonder but I’d think you’d at least read his posts before showing everyone you can’t be taken seriously.
Is he on probation now or what Celeste? Hey Robbie, all your gangster and prison pals you swoon over behave?