My first question is…..why is the New York Times doing a far more sophisticated take on the issue of gang violence—including LA gang violence— than anything we’re seeing in the various LA papers?
The story is about a murder in North Carolina caused by a fight that broke out at a party between two groups of gang members. Guns were pulled. Shots were fired. An innocent bystander—a thirteen year old girl—was killed.
The death of the teenager has North Carolina lawmakers nearly trampling each other in their rush to pass a brand new set of laws that crack down on gangs—laws just like we have in California. Yet the article points out that even as other states seek to emulate LA’s traditional “get tough” strategy, many of the smartest people on LA’s law enforcement scene, are seeking to move away from the War on Gangs mentality. Why? Because it hasn’t worked.
At least 36 states have passed hard-line laws similar to those pioneered in the 1990s by Los Angeles, and enacted statewide in California. The laws prohibit public gatherings of two or more people suspected of being gang members; establish databases to track gang members; deploy broad sweeps of suspects; and lengthen prison sentences for gang-related crimes.
But even as lawmakers in Raleigh have worked to create a similar gang law, doubts have been raised across the country about the value of the approach.A growing number of law enforcement officials, including some in Los Angeles, suggest that such aggressive suppression tactics may worsen some gang problems by alienating whole groups of people from the police and stocking prisons with thousands of young people, many of whom are transformed into hardened gang members while incarcerated.
Then the article goes on to quote people like civil rights lawyer, Connie Rice and LAPD Assistant Chief Earl Paysinger about how the crack down policy is wrong headed.
Over the last decade, the authorities throughout Los Angeles County have arrested more than 450,000 juveniles, Ms. Rice said, while gang membership doubled……
….Chief Paysinger said the department had not been discriminating enough in dealing with people suspected of being gang members who pose a lesser threat. He said a new mindset was beginning to take hold among the department’s leadership…..
“During my career I’ve probably arrested tens of thousands of gang members,” he said. “That doesn’t work. And now we’re doing what we can to, as my son says, flip the script.”
I know Paysinger well, and his out-of-the-box thinking on gangs is one of the things that will place him on the short list of contenders for the job of LAPD chief when the day comes that Bill Bratton leaves.
On Monday I was at a meeting with Connie and another enlightened cop, Deputy Chief Charlie Beck the head of LAPD’s South Bureau, which covers South LA’s most crime ridden areas and, together with some other criminal justice types, we talked about exactly the same issues.
(The meeting was part of a series of meetings organized by my smart friend Joe Domanick at the USC Annenberg Institute for Justice and Journalism, where we are both senior fellows.)
“We’ve had 25 years of a war on gangs,” said Connie, “and a mass incarceration strategy….and we have six times as many gangs. You can’t call that anything but a catastrophic failure.”
On a more hopeful note, Deputy Chief Charlie Beck said that, after just a single year of trying to police “smarter” not “harder”—which has included. among other strategies, insisting that his divisions work regularly with gang intervention groups—gang-related crime in South Bureau has gone down by a significant percentage.
But although the best cops are ahead of the curve with their thinking, California lawmakers still lag far behind. So the state’s public policy still favors a lock-’em-up policy only, and so we have the third largest prison system in the world with the recidivism rate holding steady at 71 percent, and 120,000 LA kids still afraid to walk to school. Add this to LAUSD’s 44 percent district-wide graduation rate and, as Connie said the other night, “you’ve got a situation that defines Stuck on Stupid.”
It’s late and I’m sleepless....so I’ll leave off with that. But, I’ll assuredly be reporting a lot more on these issues in the days, weeks and months to come.
NOTE: A chapeau tip to commenter/Locke teacher, Bruce Williams, for flagging the story.
You could also point out, as the stories I’ve seen tell us, that the murder rate in Raleigh, even after this incident, is declining, and among the lowest in the state for cities of that size.
Very good point, RLC. Thanks!
See, rlc. Raleigh isn’t one of those blue state decaying urban areas.
I see the street gang problem as requiring many changes in our society in order to solve this growing problem which has many causes and contributing factors. You just can’t point to one issue and say that is the main cause of gangs. Most of us already have our own ideas and opinions of what reasons street gangs exist and why membership has increased among young kids. And all of these reasons are probably a contributing factor.
I’m not a “paid expert” in the area of gangs, but just trying to help out a few teens and growing up around plenty of cholos I have seen and heard plenty of stories.
I’ll start with education, we need to teach every kid other subjects besides reading, writing and arithmetic. We need to teach the kids honesty, morals, ethics, compassion, pride, respect, and etc. There are just too many kids who are not receiving “life lessons†at home. These are subjects which are also taught in our churches (Sorry Chemerinsky; most Christian aren’t my greatest threat).
And another issue is where does the young parent initially receive these lessons in order to pass them down to his own kids? We also need parenting classes in all our schools, teach the young kids what a great responsibility bringing a child into the world really is. Not every young man has a minister, pastor, rabbi or Dr. Phil as his father. There are life lessons, I’ve learned watching Oprah, ok- don’t laugh too hard.
Bring back vocational training to all our schools not every kid is going to receive a degree in quantum physics or bio-medical engineering. We still need electricians, technicians, plumbers, carpenters and etc.
I would like to see more youth sport leagues, Boys Clubs, YMCA, teen centers etc. We need to provide easy access to after school activities for young kids. Every kid we invest in now will be the next taxpayer we collect from in the future.
All good points, LA Res. The good news is that LA’s cops are seeing the complexity too—and acting on it, at least to the degree that they can from a command staff level. But it ain’t their job to solve it.
Law enforcement can, however, drive the conversation because they’re in the best position to put pressure on lawmakers due to the fact that, when it comes to these issues, our often clueless politicians seem mostly to base all their actions around their dread of being labeled soft on crime.
Celeste, a propos why New York is more “sophisticated” on a presumably local issue: I was struck by the excelling reporting Judith Miller did for New York’s City Journal (summer issue, should still be online) which I was alerted to by the Huffington Post link. There was an excerpt of that in the LAT Sunday Opinion a couple mos. ago.
She pointed out that Bratton’s work on anti-terrorism with a fraction of the funds and cops he had in New York — making him focus more on cooperation between depts., like the FBI — is a model for the country. Baca also got high marks, and Councilman Weiss for heading the Council’s Public Safety Committee and trying to get the Council/ Mayor’s ofc./ Supes to understand the implications for this work on a national and international level.
But our local reporting tends to overlook their efforts, so there was little consternation when L A got a fraction of the fed anti-terror funds that an already mega-funded NYC gets. Instead, we have provincial members of the Council, like former cops Zine, Smith and Bernie, and libs like Hahn, dissing the push by Bratton and Weiss to get funding and approval to put the 44 cops it would take to staff our new but unused (for lack of trained cops) state of the art command center for anti-terror monitoring and dispatching. These people are fighting more cops in their districts and naively suggest cops can suddenly be reassigned to terror units when the call “strikes.”
Of course, every CM has to push for security in his/her own district as a top priority — Weiss and his office have been active in this, too — but as a city, Los Angeles is still so polarized by provincial, territorial views and battles, that we lack the “sophistication” of NY in coming up with city-wide solutions. In many areas.
Maggie, yep, yep, yep. Dead right. Drives me crazy.
Now, a more specific comment on the gang issue: Connie Rice is an ultra-liberal, civil rights attorney person who is all in favor of big-government and big-spending, even when it’s not practical. Her desire for a comprehensive childhoold- to- adult gang prevention and treatment program would cost ONE BILLION DOLLARS by her own earlier estimate — way out of line and absurdly expensive.
While I agree with much of what L A Res said on this, a lot of the groups he mentions are already in existence and rely largely in private fundraising and support — they’re not all city-sponsored and taxpayer-paid for, as Connie wanted.
Even Laura Chick felt Rice’s ideas were wildly impractical to fund and execute, so Hahn is coming up with her proposal to ask for a bond measure to be put on the ballot. (Which I’m opposed to — we already pay too much in taxes that are wasted and, again in agreement with Chick, I say let’s find out exactly where our current taxes have gone and how depts. from the LAPD to the “Gang Csar” Carr — where has he been hiding lately, anyway –are using their funds.)
Rice also makes assertions like, although L A has had a tough on crime stance for over a decade, the gang and prison populations have actually doubled. Well, that in no way proves a connection between those two things: it just means we have more gang members and hence grown-up criminals. And by now means are all these people “learning” their criminal modus operendi from the jails — as Poplock notes, there are many gangbangers who have come up from Central America and Mexico in the last decade who have a much fiercer attitude and lack the “code of honor” homegrown gangs have had, of not going after neutral parties and family members. The guy who they just caught in Santa Clarita, the illegal who’s been twice deported before committing these would-be rapes and assaults and burglaries, is only one sad case in point.
And in the black hoods, social conditions are conducive to kids getting into gangs for protection, with poor single moms often too poor and worn down to move away. (Although “away” is no longer always safe, either, as places like Lancaster and even “safest city” Santa Clarita getting the exodus.)
I’m all for more involvement of youths in gang prevention programs, in coordination with private org’s. And I think the teachers at Locke who are behind this Green Dot conversion sound amazing, including their plans to pro- actively work with and counsel their students at risk.
But we can’t make the PC assumptions or financial demands that Rice makes. Plus, as per my earlier post, we need more inter-agency and citywide strategies and leadership. Which we can’t get from our “Americas Ten Worst” list C/A Rocky D.
1. – California population is growing that equals more crime, more gang members, more dropouts, and more individuals in State Prison (more freaking traffic!)
Sorry to tell you, but we need more State Prisons.
2. The war on gangs did not start 25 years ago. It started more like in the early 1990s. Not until crack cocaine and the big bucks start to hit the streets, did LAPD or LASD start to address the issue of gang violence. By then, they were already on the losing side of the war.
Why do you think they are so pro-interventionist programs. They want to spread the blame.
3. Paysinger saying that he personally arrested “tens of thousands” of gang members is straight bullshit.
4. C. Rice is a person who is looking at gangs from the outside in – not from the inside out. Why do you give her so much credit? She sucks~!
When she decides to get off her political high horse and unproductive meetings, tell her to take time and interview a couple of thounsands of low-income and middle class families affeccted by gang violence. Tell her to go into the homes of these families and see what factors were decisive on a juvenile or young adult joining a gang. I dont see her credibility and disagree with her research.
5. I totally agree with Maggie that we should not pay or play daddy and mommy for other people’s mistakes and life failures to be good parents or role models.
Read ric and pokeys commnets
http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/bill-antonio-do-dc/#more-346
When I said “they want to spread the blame”, I know I was talking out of my ass. I apologize.
But, you have to understand, I’m not happy with a couple of these interventionist groups.
Here is one for you….Ms Fremon.
A true story.
This is one of the interventionist groups that you are always defending and saying good things about.
The mentor working for the interventionist groups takes a gangster into an enemies’ neighborhood to pick up another gang member for so-called “interventionist counseling.”
When the gang member arrives at the apartment building, the enemies recognize him and kick the crap out of him – in front of the so called vet. gang mentor. The mentor does nothing, says nothing – allows it to continue. The mentor picks up the beaten downed kid and takes him home to his mother. Did the mentor called the cops? NO. Did the mentor attempt to stop the fight? No. Did the mentor talk to the mother to explain or apologize? No. Did the mentor take the kid to the hospital? No.
This story was confirmed to me by more than one person. Actually, it was confirmed by the relatives of the guys that did the actually beating, the mother of the gangster that got beat, and the beaten down gangster himself.
This is bullshit.
I am not paying my tax money for this kind of so called intervention.
The above is just one story of many that I can tell you.
Poplock says ……
I totally agree with Maggie that we should not pay or play daddy and mommy for other people’s mistakes and life failures to be good parents or role models.
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We probably all agree with that statement, but “other people’s mistakes” are still costing me bilions for prisons, public defenders, police, courts, and etc. And add to that the cost to quality of life, safety, schools.
They only ones who seem to always profit are the cops on overtime, prison guards’ union, and everybody else chasing down “other people’s mistake” Maybe even Mr. Poplocking is making some money from other people’s mistake.
Poplock, the list of gang intervention groups that I think are any good is really, really short. There are a lot of fools out there taking money and claiming they have a “license to operate” practically and morally speaking, because they were once gangsters themselves. While some are genuinely well meaning, yet organizationally…challenged, others are poseurs who still have one foot in the ‘hood. I don’t and won’t defend any of those folks.
There are, as we both know, however, some good people out there too. I found it refreshing that Charlie Beck appears to know the difference. If you don’t know him, I suspect you’d like him.
As for Connie, she’s not on the street, I agree. She’s a theorist. But, for my money, her perspective is very smart, and very valuable. Plus, she spends time with those who are spending time on the street. BTW, all the factors that you’ve named over these past weeks and months that lead a kid to join a gang, are very close to what Connie would name.
About that statement by Paysinger, yeah, that is pretty preposterous. Didn’t catch that last night when I was operating on six hours of sleep out of 48. Let’s just hope he was misquoted.