The LA Times Robert Faturechi has a follow-up to his story about another LASD clique, specifically a clique that is part of the gang enforcement unit, Operation Safe Streets or OSS. The reported clique is called “The Jump Out Boys.”
In the original story, Faturechi reported that concern about the group surfaced when a supervisor came across a printed pamphlet that outlined a sort of mission statement for the clique and that reportedly seemed to portray officer involved shootings “in a positive light.”
This new story has a drawing of the tattoo that two sources confirmed to the Times was indeed the ink sported by the Jump Out Boys. It features a bandana-headed skull with demon eyes, its skeletal hand holding a large revolver. Two playing cards, the ace and eight of clubs, are fanned out behind the skull, representing the infamous “dead man’s hand,” that Wild Bill Hickok was said to be holding when he was shot and killed. (Actually, Hickok was supposed to have held two aces and two eights, plus a fifth card, still face down, the identity of which is in dispute. But nevermind. The ace and eight still is universally considered to represent that death-haunted hand.)
Moreover, Faturechi reports that “investigators suspect that smoke is tattooed over the gun’s barrel after a member is involved in a shooting.”
Yeah. About that smoke thingy.
Unfortunately, the suspicion regarding the added smoke may have a troubling precedent in the department.
WitnessLA has acquired a document indicating that when, a few years ago, some Sheriff’s department higher-ups became concerned about the gangster-like behavior of some of the Regulators clique based at Century station, they reported hearing reports that, if a member had been involved in “a fatal deputy involved shooting,” then smoke was similarly added to be “emitting from the barrels” of the revolvers featured in the clique’s signatory tattoo. (In the case of the Regulators, the clique tattoo reportedly depicted a trench-coated skeleton wearing a cowboy hat and holding not one, but two nice big guns.)
Okay, look: Yes, we know that many Los Angeles Sheriff’s stations have colorful mascots and that, in an era when the nice young guy ringing up your groceries at Trader Joe’s has a sleeve full of intricate tattoos, it does not necessarily indicate any kind of wrong doing if a few deputies have the mascot discreetly inked on, say, their ankles. And we understand that it’s good to build camaraderie among deputies, and that a little bit of harmless college fraternity-like behavior might help to do so.
However….when only certain people are invited to join the said inked group, a less than healthy “in” group and and “out” group cultural atmosphere is created at the station. Then, if the tattoo for the “in” group depicts some kind of gun-brandishing death-dealer, at that point one has taken a very large step out onto a decidedly slippery slope. And it is a slope that leads directly away from constitutional policing, and directly toward an us-versus-them, work-in-the-gray, shave-the-legal-dice and do-what-you-gotta-do mentality..
The insignia above, circa late 1990’s for the LAPD’s Rampart CRASH unit, is a signal example.
It all goes back to who we hire. Nothing wrong with tattoos. However, when you get one to be part of a group that just seems juvenile.
It’s all about mass hiring and quotas. Enough said
Tattoos are an excellent indicator of lack of formal education. Although there are always exceptions to the rule, the higher the educational level, the lower the tattoos. You will find a very low percentage of doctors, lawyers scientists and other professionals with tattoos. You will find a high percentage of the GED and below crowd with tattoos. Unfortunately, this crowd currently consists of both cops and crooks. Sometimes they are the same person. A mandatory 4 year degree prior to being hired as a cop would cut the tattoo problem in half overnight.
Tanaka leans back in his oversized office chair, takes a long drag on his cigar, feet up on the desk and he says, “That’s my boys.” The crowd of boot lickers surrounding him all applaud, slapping him on the back telling Too Tall Paul, “Boss, you’re the best. No one can touch us. Not even the Commission.”
Failing to articulate a thought without repeatedly stating the same thing is an excellent indicator of the lack of a formal education. There are exceptions.
I challenge anyone to go back and find one of Public’s posts where he/she doesn’t allude to the minimum educational requirement of LASD being a GED.
He/she is obviously obsessed with the GED thing due to needing to appear superior… which any first year psychology student knows stems from a deep seeded feeling of inferiority.
Sounds to me like Public received a top notch education in a film school or something like that.
Just saying.
Some of the most dedicated and professional street cops I’ve had the honor to work with, were GED types. Some of the most inept, arrogant and incompetent folks I’ve worked around were degree holding fools. Hey, doesn’t Baca have a PhD? I’ve made my point.
“3000 Boys”? “Jump out Boys”? Get the picture? It Sounds like It’s the same group of custody “Boys” just on the outside now. If you look just a little further, you can see how far “The Boys” go up the ladder. Heck they may even be getting promoted to special units because they are with “The Boys” cliques.
The Public says: I agree with your assessment, but I might add that tattoos are an even greater indicator of susceptibility to peer group pressure. The person with the tattoo doesn’t really have a mind of his own; instead, he’s got the mind-set of the peer group represented by the tattoo, so to divine the thought processes of the tattooed individual you’ve really got to divine the thought processes of the peer group represented by the tattoo.
With an organization like the USMC, no problem; with what the Marines have done for this country nobody can hold a bad thought about the Marines, and an individual with a Marine tattoo is seen as an exemplar of what is good in society.
But a tattoo denoting the Waffen SS….
Answer – Please don’t attack the poster, instead challenge the content of the post:
Are you saying you won’t find a very low percentage of doctors, lawyers, scientists and other professionals with tattoos?
Are you saying you won’t find a much higher percentage of tattoos among the GED and below group?
Just look at the military and compare the lower educated enlisted personnel’s percentage of tattoos compared to the higher educated officer corps.
All major law enforcement agency chiefs have strived to increase the educational level of cops for years. Are they all wrong?
Please challenge the facts of my post and not me.
Picture if you will – If you are saying that based on your experience you would prefer cops to have GEDs rather than PHDs, I would have to disagree with you. You will also find disagreement from the chiefs of all major law enforcement agencies in the US.
To “The Public”
I wholeheartedly challenge your “connect the dots” mentality between higher education and the ability to be a good police officer. While I understand your off the hip opinion that education level somehow has something to do with the want of tattoos, despite your glaring lack statistical or emipirical evidence on your part, education level only plays a part. You provide the opinion of a simpleton stating what you belive to be fact, without looking at the big picture. Some of the factors that play even a larger role is maturity and life experience. I have had plenty of highly educated, good people fail patrol training. Why? Because of their inability to formulate an opinion, provide and answer, or solve a problem based series of varying factors. The common trait throughout all of the highly educated trainees? Their need to have an answer easily available, either out of a book or written down somewhere for every conceivable situation. A habit groomed by years of schooling. It is impossible in this era of modern policework to cover or train for every possible situation that my be encountered. A good cop must make a good decision based on his/her knowledge of law/legal issues/policy/experience/personal knowlege and do it in a timely manner all this while maintain a mature command presence and demeanor. Is this an idictment of higher education? Absolutely not. I’m simply addressing you because your higher education argument is an overly simplified, tired argument I keep seeing pop up on this board. As for my experience, I have over 10 years of training and I’m willing to bet you’ll receive the same explanation from training officers no matter what department. Oh yeah, and I have a degree.
What percentage of gang members have college degress?
What percentage of gang members have tattoos?
The Public, I agree with HutHut. “Police work” is actually a very much an art form and a science. A science of knowing people, dealing with people and understanding people. Not from a clinical setting or theoretical perspective, but from an actual understanding of human nature, knowing the abilities and capabilities of evil. Understanding logic and reasoning in a dimension you would not understand. As HutHut said, I have worked with, trained, evaluated, supervised and managed folks over the years that didn’t have enough common sense to pour piss out of a boot even if the directions were on the heal, yet they were considered well “educated.” Some did very well, some were flat out incompetent in every sense of the word.
In police work, particularly with the experiences that a patrol officer is subjected to, really requires a high degree of common sense, exception logic and reasoning skills, unique recall and analysis abilities and “street smarts.” Police work is not the antiseptic portrayal one sees on television and in the movies, it is gutter ugly.
I have noticed you have made a number of judgmental statements in the past challenging the intellect of GED or High School graduate police officers. You are simply wrong. Their strength may not be in fiscal analysis, but I will tell you their strength IS in analytical interviewing. And I fall back to an earlier statement I made, all executives within LASD and most other organizations, started out in a patrol assignment. Many of them were worthless, inept and incapable of that assignment or that of a detective. Baca was assigned to ELA Station for years, and he was just as incompetent as a patrol deputy as he is now as the Sheriff. He was so worthless he spent an overwhelming majority of his time as a Community Relations Deputy and in alike assignments. There was nothing else management could do with him. He just could not function in the streets. And now under Tanaka, competence is irrelevant as illustrated by a majority of the promotions he has made. Cigar smoking and political donating is what will pave the way for assignments and promotions in LASD today.
So sir, no one is attacking you, just you much misinformed statements and belief that somehow education makes a better cop. It is not true in most cases.
And I too, have a degree. An advance degree at that.
“General Hut” – Here is your statistical tattoo evidence.
2009 study
Education versus tattoos in the US:
Did not complete high school 40% have tattoos
Completed high school 29% have tattoos
Completed Bachelors’ degree 26% have tattoos
Completed Graduate school 14% have tattoos
Raising the level of education = lowering the level of tattoos.
“Picture if you will” Please cite me one police chief that would not prefer all entry officers to have a 4 year degree. Some Orange County cities demand that. What do you know that they don’t. Also, I find it offensive that you consider officers working in Community Relations “worthless”. That attitude is why the public currently has such a low opinion of cops.
Look at the Deputies that have recently been arrested. Some had degrees, high school diplomas and GED’s. Look at Baca and Tanaka. They both have more then a B.A. degrees. At the end of the day it comes down to the character of the person we hire. The problem is once a person is found to be a problem, we spend time trying to clean up the investment. Sometimes it better to claim a loss.
It’s the symbology of the jump out boys tat that I find most disturbing. The various symbols linked by death as the common thread tells me this group sees itself as some sort of death squad. If they want to be the LA branch of the Totenkopf-SS, then let’s treat them as such. Classify the group (and all other deputy gangs) as a criminal organization, fire the members and strip them of their benefits as penalty for having been part of a criminal group.
These sort of groups are a cancer inside the LASD. The lack of decisive action against them is just another reason why the Baca regime needs to go. Baca’s feelings, compassion or thoughts don’t matter when he’s shown an unwillingness to back it up with action that restores credibility to the department.
Mr. Public. Let me tell you about “Community Relations.” For the most part, the personnel assigned to those positions are absolutely worthless, police impostors. They have a great schedule and they go to various functions on behalf of a unit commander and blow smoke up the ass of those who attend. Most of the folks in these assignments were non=producers in the field. Could not make an arrest if you pointed a bad guy out to them. Place them into a dynamic tactical situation and they would shit their pants and then rub it all over them because they did not know what to do. Baca and his command “uses” the Community Relations deputies to suck up to local business folks for monetary donations for LASD events, put out brush fires of local incidents and just keep people happy. Meanwhile the hard working deputies in the filed assigned to shift work take all of the danger and answer all of the radio calls that the Community Relations deputies would not have a clue on how to handle. So if you are one of the folks that get sucked dry for donations or “support” when things go a little haywire, you are being played like a fiddle.
So with all due respect, if you find what I just told you “offensive,” then deal with it. I know exactly what I am talking about. Personnel assigned to patrol stations also know what I am talking about. If you are getting sucked off for donations and the like, thank Sheriff Baca, not me. He uses “community” individuals like toilet paper. Offers you sweet nothings in terms of hollow words, and then moves on to his next “community” meeting. It is mostly “politics,” nothing more.
There is nothing wrong with education, I did it the hard way. I did not “purchase” my degree like most folks did at LASD University. Another Baca production, starring “Smoke and Mirrors.” Coming soon to a theater or drive-in near you.
I too am very disturbed, hell, pissed off, at yet another tattoo, another symbol of immature wannabe gang types who decided it was too cool to have ink. These folks are an embarrassment and are not representative of hard working folks. They are in the Tanaka Cigar Club and want to tell Too Tall Paul how he is so bitchen and they wanna be just like him and his Viking ink. So they come up with their own tattoo. Insecure individuals do very insecure things.
Police chief magazine carried an article by Garr Nielsen, a Captain in the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office in Portland, Oregon. http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&article_id=963&issue_id=82006
It’s an interesting read. I have to say that generations play a part. I came to the department with a GED 22 years ago. I had to work for it by going to night school. Today, you can buy a book and test for a GED in a day. I also went on to complete a college degree. With the cost of education, we will see less degrees in the years to come. At the end of the day it comes down to the leadership of Baca. Much like the supervisors that allowed him to pass probation as an incompetent deputy, he has put some people like that in leadership roles. Henry Marin get caught sleeping in the first five minute of the academy on a national t.v. show. He was separated from the academy because he’s clearly not law enforcement material, and we had hours of video showing this. Someone gave the okay to let him back in another class. Now he’s on his way to jail. Degree vs. Non Degree is not the issue. Tattoo vs. Non Tattoo is not the issue. The department’s problems are in leadership and who we extend employment to. Leroy needs to clean out the bad apples from the barrel in both the sworn and civilian positions and stop getting run over.
Public : The writer of that link I provided, he had a college degree in a department that stressed higher education. Go ahead and search the internet and see how his degree helped him. Like I said it’s an interesting article.
Let’s say we require all police officers in the state of CA to have a four year degree. Are you willing to have their salaries go up commensurate to their educational qualifications? Or would you then STILL be complaining about their even greater compensation contracts and retirement benefits?
I may be wrong, but what I’m discerning from your posts is that you think cops are nothing more than highly overpaid common laborers in an occupation that most anyone could perform well in.
Not only do you constantly mention the minimum GED requirement, but your posts continually have the undertone of antagonism. In short, it’s obvious you are not appreciative of the job they do. You are not a fan. That’s your prerogative.
If, the solutions you suggest to fix the LASD’s problems were to come to pass, such as as CA cops needing a four year degree, would you then become appreciative of cops? Not likely.
What’s really ironic is the well thought out, well articulated analysis that these, in your mind, uneducated cops have responded with regarding your posts (complaints).
It seems these people that you seem to think should be on an assembly line somewhere putting round pegs in round holes are quite a bit more intelligent and astute than you give them credit for. They have obviously picked up on your disdain for the law enforcement profession, as have I.
So in regards to your post 9, do you really think you are going to be able to continue to poke sticks and belittle (constant GED references) a group of people before some of it comes back at you?
Sorry, That’s not how things work.
If you want to have an intellectual debate on the subject, I’m ready. I’ll partake in that fashion as soon as you drop the sarcastic and belittling attitude that you approach the subject with.
I appreciate the cops. I believe they have a very tough job that it takes a committed, dedicated and in most cases professional to do.
There are bad apples in every profession. You seem quite anxious to paint with a broad brush when it comes to the law enforcement profession.
I couldn’t disagree more with you.
^^^^^for Public^^^^^
“The Public” (the person who posts under that nom de plume here on this blog and not the public as in people in society) is clueless and has his or her so-called mind already made up. Guys, no use trying to reason with someone who blindly uses numbers/statistics to prove an erroneous position or ASSumption.
Public says,
“That attitude is why the public currently has such a low opinion of cops”.
lol. I thought it was due to their being so ignorant, just having a GED and being compensated so well. Hmmm. I guess not. I guess Mr. Public has switched gears on us and it’s a new beef now.
He could save himself a lot of time and words and just say
“Not a fan” and leave it at that.
Make up your mind Public.
These guys should transfer to aero bureau. At least THEY would show up to deputy involved shootings.
Speaking of Aero Bureau and Louie Duran, what is going on with the BOS audit and the additional information in another story that was to surface? And while we are on the subject anything new with the Tanaka Pay for Play allegations and follow-up story? And speaking of Tanaka, what is the latest with him?
Inquiring minds would like to know. Just the facts, please.
I’ve been with the department for over 15 years now. I was a single mother with a high school education at the time of my hiring. . I’m grateful the department gave me a chance. Today, I have a masters degree. There is good and bad in everything. Everybody is also entitled to their opinion. I’m sadden by the decline of this department over the years. How did get we get Henry Marin, the 2000 boys, the 3000 boys, and now the jump out boys?
Read the report.http://www.laoir.com/reports/LASDBackground.pdf
It’s all about Baca’s plan to build the biggest Department in the world at any cost. We still to this day are making questionable hires. We have 27,000 applicants and will hire 1,200 over the next couple years. Until leadership changes and if it changes, we will have the same problems for years to come. Not only do I also wonder about Duran, what about Abrams?
Reading the attached OIR report regarding hiring and backgrounds.. its makes me sick how low the dept I served for 30 years has become…I am so glad I retired before that clown Baca became Sheriff… I never could have worked for such a incompentent leader….
4 year degree is the key? Ted Bundy had a 4 year degree. I guess he’d make a great cop. The problem isn’t a lowering of hiring standards. We have always had scandals crop up from era to era. arco/narco, credit card thefts, etc. it’s just harder now to cover them up. The technology to share / spread information is exponentially greater that it was in the past. The problem lies in the failure of management / supervisors to monitor the workplace and stay in touch with what is happening on the floors, on the streets, in the air and in the back rooms. It’s not fair to condemn the whole department over the actions of a select few.
Sure a 4 year degree would be a desirable requirement. It’s easily acheived when you’re a epartment that hires 5-10 officers every 5 years or so. It’s naive to suggest that you an have this requirement when you try to hire 1200 in a year. It is what it is.
Background investigators are repeatedly bombarded with emails and phone calls from “friends” of the applicant. The list of “friends” can include other deputies, supervisors, judges, district attorneys…whoever is willing to put a “word” in for you. I can only guess this puts the investigator in a tough spot. Investigators should be required to attach all unsolicited phone calls and emails from people trying to push their friends through. OIR can lay blame on the investigators but their hands are probably tied. It would be interesting to see how many applicants who should have been disqualified…made it through the process because of an “important” phone call.
A recurring theme by those of us in the know appears to be that many of the department’s current problems stem from substandard hiring, apparently motivated by an attitude that reaching a certain number was more important than ensuring quality hires. Start with inferior materials and you will end up with a crap product, no matter how much you try to shine those babies up. It’s interesting that the required video we have to watch of Felix right now, has an insight into the hiring process, when they talk about his juvenile arrest at 17 for theft. I was amazed when I saw that. A candy bar in second grade may be one thing, but a thief at 17 is most likely going to be a thief in adulthood. And lo and behold, he sold out his partners for a couple grand a month. Could the department honestly say it was surprised by that? What other hiring standards have we loosened up? Someone in backgrounds reading this post care to enlighten us?
The department’s watered down hiring standards will haunt us for many years to come. Just the tip of the iceberg so far, I’m afraid.
This is what we can look forward to with higher educational hiring standards:
“College-educated deputies generally exhibit the following qualities:
Greater knowledge of procedures, functions, and principles relevant to their present and future police assignments.
Better appreciation of their professional role and its importance to the criminal justice system and in a democratic society.
A more desirable psychological makeup: alertness, empathy, flexibility, initiative, and intelligence.
Greater range of interpersonal skills centered on their ability to communicate, to be responsive to others, and to exercise benevolent leadership.
Greater ability to analyze situations, to exercise independent judgment, and to make judicious decisions.
Evidence suggests that college-educated law enforcement deputies are less authoritarian, more liberal, and more flexible. They are less inclined to develop the rigid attitudes fostered by police experiences. They are generally more willing to experiment with creative problem solving, assume leadership roles, and accept challenges. They are also more sensitive and better able to deal with differences.
There is also a correlation between higher education and the following outcomes:
Fewer injuries
Fewer injuries by assault
Fewer disciplinary problems
Fewer preventable accidents
Fewer sick days
Fewer allegations of excessive physical force”
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&article_id=963&issue_id=82006
Or we can go with the status quo in Los Angeles and expect more of this:
Division Chiefs drinking on the job with subordinates and watching her drive off and get arrested.
Six figure salary promotions sold for $100 campaign contributions.
Helicopters not responding to officer shootings while pilots take a break.
Personal motorcycles fixed up at taxpayer expense.
Community Relations officers ridiculed while other officers get prison looking tattoos.
Like number 30 states you get inquiries from all types of people about their candidate. Some were pushed for hire because of their connections with people inside the department. Another group pushed for hire are those already in the department in non sworn position such as CA, SA, or SO. So you would have dept. personnel calling to lobby for their favorite employee. Some of these were like Mr. Marin or Mr. Felix. We had and clear evidence that some are not a good candidate for hire and made it known. Reguardless, they were stamped okay for hires anyway and sent to the captain for a final interview and admitted to the academy. It was and I sure still is frustrating to a number of us.
Folks, the topic is the new clique of Jump Out Boys, not getting sucked into Mr. Public’s misguided opinion of GED police. Just saying……
Good grief, Public, you’ve just shot holes in your own argument (post 32). The people at the very heart of all of those incidents (with the exception of poking sticks at CR) have advanced college degrees. Tanaka’s a CPA, Baca’s a PHD, Waters has degrees. Did you take your logic courses while at LAUSD? Is our wonderful education system shining though again?
Meanwhile, on to the real issues:
What is happening with the Aero Bureau audit? The BOS should audit Transit Services Bureau while they are at it. It’s another case of lofty promises made, and then shady practices following. Contracted items were not being filled, and the result was a massive increase in CARP time when patrol minutes had to be made up in that bureau. This takes personnel away from their assigned job so it suffers as well.
Any word on Abram, Duran, or Cruz? These (finely college educated, I might add) managers were all placed by Tanaka, and all are looking at pretty severe consequences. Hopefully, the FBI and maybe the State AG will conduct a decent investigation of the shenanigans going on and help clean house.
#32- Sorry but that argument is out dated. Today, it is almost as easy to earn a B.A. as it is to graduate high school. With the thousands of online degree programs available I don’t think the value of a B.A. is what it used to be. I see some validity in the argument. A student who actually goes to a school and has to be up on time, at school, do homework, and adapt to the schedule of an actual school….not their own schedule….probably operates at a higher level and has a better grasp of critical thinking. Today, background investigators are getting flooded with applicants with “B.A.” degrees from odd schools all over the country who are accredited by….? Who knows. They wonder why the county doesn’t accept their degree because they earned a 4 year B.A. in 3 semesters from their couch. I don’t put a lot of faith in these degrees yet that is what the department is getting right now.
I know some deputies with a high school diploma that far exceed the street patrol skills of college graduates. Education will only get you so far in police work. Instincts and an innate ability to communicate with people and read their responses are far more important than a piece of paper which is so easily given away these days.
Public says:
“Evidence suggests that college-educated law enforcement deputies are less authoritarian, more liberal, and more flexible.”
Uh, excuse me. I want the cops policing my community to be authoritarian figures.
More liberal? More flexible? The law is black and white isn’t it? How much have we heard about the problems “working in the gray” causes? I don’t want the cops policing my community to “be more liberal and flexible” and decide what laws they are and aren’t going to enforce. That is a very slippery slope.
“They are less inclined to develop the rigid attitudes fostered by police experiences.”
I call b.s. on this one. Most human beings develop their attitudes based on their experiences, not what they’ve been told (education).
“They are generally more willing to experiment with creative problem solving, assume leadership roles, and accept challenges”
I don’t want them experimenting/creating and doing things their own way. I want them to follow the law and their departmental policies and procedures. Assuming leadership roles? Hmmmm. A highly educated individual on the LASD has the second highest position on the dept….and he has been telling his troops to “work in the gray”….look how that’s worked out for the LASD lol. Accept challenges? Ok. I can agree with this one. He’s certainly being challenged right now.
Sounds to me like that Police Chief magazine article you sighted is a bunch of politically correct bunk that is nothing more than a feel good article.
The LASD is run by a guy with a Ph.D. They have problems. The Captains and above that are being discussed on this blog all have advanced degrees. Not a great indicator of more education equaling more character.
CHARACTER. INTEGRITY.
That is what I want the cops who police my community to possess. You can’t get that from a piece of paper.
Opinions differ. Just my .02
I disagree with the requirement to only hire deputies with a college degree. I found the deputies I trained and supervised needed to first have common sense. Otherwise those overly developed brains would get someone else or them selves killed. I have had numerous deputies who worked for me that only had a GED. I have found that deputies who enter the department with a GED to a 2 year degree usually will go back to college on nights or part time. They have a much better understanding and appreciation of their earned education. That is if its not a Baca degree from the numerous degrees offered on the department just to have a degree. I have found that a high precentage of those we hire who have degrees will leave the department for greener pastures before they get very far along in the department. The department can not be a baby sitter to those who take up a valuable seat just to see if they like the job.
It’s time to do some debunking on this whole college thing. There are many good cops with only a high school education, and there are many fools with advanced degrees (they seem to have found a home with LASD). Conversely, however, there are many good cops with college degrees and many bad ones with GED’s. Take your pick.
Regarding Tanaka, he has a bachelor’s degree in accounting. Given the position he occupies, he is undereducated to be the #2 person in charge. Baca has a doctorate, but it appears to be one of those “executive” ones that USC used to hand out back in the day. The paper he wrote was about decriminalizing incest and treating it as a medical problem….WTF? True story, look it up under USC dissertations. Word on the yard is that a lieutenant of his helped him write it as well.
The whole LASDU things was a sham to give paper credit to people who were long on connections but short on qualifications. They punched their ticket, paid for the diploma, and hung it on their office wall, probably right next to trophy case with the cigar coin in it.
Education is a good thing if you obtain it to expand your knowledge base and broaden your perspective. Smart people who want to increase their contribution to society do that kind of thing. But it is not a substitute for street smarts and common sense. It’s good to have both, they are needed in the long run.
Wouldn’t people skills be the most important thing to possess as a street cop? The ability to communicate effectively with others? The ability to “read” people? The ability to remain calm in he face of danger? The ability to make snap decisions based on street sense?
I don’t think any of those things can come from any amount of education. I’m not aware of any college course that offers those studies. I believe that is learned by experience, and experience only.
My guess is that most street cops would rather work with a high school graduate who’s been out there on the streets for a couple of years than a first-dayer with a Ph.D.
The college issue thing is a red herring. I work a patrol in a ghetto area and consider myself a go getter. If I don’t go 15 at least once a shift I consider the shift a failure. And I have a bachelors degree and masters degree from an east coast university. On the other hand, some of the best deputies I know have no college education. My college years have made me a better report writer than them for sure; their street experience when I was in classrooms has made them better at spotting criminals, handling them, etc. I’m good at it but playing catch up to them. So, I agree education isn’t the real issue; it’s character, and pursuit of knowledge and intellectual caliber is just part of that. Having said that, there are absolutely benefits from a college education that patrol deputies shouldn’t discount–especially with respect to writing, communication, multi-tasking, interview skills, being able to follow and develop a narrative, and developing an overall more informed world view, which does (in my experience) somewhat affect your decisions on patrol. Still, at the end of the day, just because I understand the historical reasons for someone’s socioeconomic situation, it doesn’t mean they aren’t going to jail for whatever they did. Again, it’s about character.
” just because I understand the historical reasons for someone’s socioeconomic situation, it doesn’t mean they aren’t going to jail for whatever they did.”
EXACTLY. It’s not the cops job to figure out WHY somebody is doing what they’re doing. It’s not the cops job to give them a pass because they belong to a “historically oppressed group”..yada yada yada. It’s cops job to enforce the law and arrest those that break the law. Period. End of story.
So, I would say that part of your education that allows you to “understand the historical reasons for someone’s socioeconomic situation” is pretty much useless to you as a patrol cop.
The English classes that taught you to write clear concise grammatically correct reports? Definitely a huge plus.
All the other stuff… fluff and duff (for the patrol cop).
Now if you want to climb the ladder and become upper level management, that’s probably another story.
A four year education would be ideal for every policeman to have, however not it is not required to be ethical and honest. You are honest and ethical or you’re not. How many educated people in all walks of life break the law; Politicians, teachers, reporters, doctors, firemen, lawyers, priests etc. Hard working deputies go out and do the right thing everyday for the right reasons. Some drive over 50 miles each way, and pass other stations because they choose to work at a faster paced station, because they will be exposed to more, and as a results, make them better policemen. At the end of the day, after a hard day’s work chasing the bad man, in substandard patrol cars, in the heat or cold, with little sleep sometimes, they will go home to rest and spend time with their loved ones. They will hear all the negative media backlash, and you know what, they will make the long drive day after day, because they love their job!!! The department is getting raked over the coals, rightfully so, but remember that the grunts working the front line at every Sheriff Station go out and try and make a positive impact. Here is a very interesting link I came across recently; http://youtu.be/bB9-NcunsKc
Public. After reading your posts, I have just decided to drink “draino.” I can garuntee that if you had the balls to be a cop, you would never have the balls to take a gangster to jail. I’ll tat that on my lower back.
A better idea would be to make the minimum age for Deputy 25. they can be a C/A CSO prior to that for experience. Lack of maturity and life experience is a bigger problem than a lack of education among the new deputies.
Build it,
That’s not just a better idea, it’s a GREAT idea.
Here’s a big hint for LASD. Stop the crap hiring based on minority, gender and whatever else they dream up. Everytime I go to personnel, all I see is these idiot applicants, texting, mad dogging people when they walk in, but hey, if you meet the hiring quota and federal mandate you’re in.
I think the Department should do a demograghics study of the last 3 years of candidates, their backgrounds, and see where all the current issues lie. Kinda like the MCJ asses throwing gang signs. Just like the varrio they live in.
And don’t say these comments are racial. It’s reality, but the cowards throw the race card when they have nothing else to hang their tan and green on.
And if you don’t believe that, look at the recruiting JDIC that went out asking all of us to find that perfect applicant to meet our growing demographic changes in our county. Really? So a hispanic can’t work walnut, a caucasian can’t work south la, but instead, lets hire the mediocre that fit their race and place them in the appropriate jurisdiction.
This sickens me and only more sworn personnel will be relieved or fired because we didn’t do the right thing, but instead humped the leg of tradition of service.
Further to Follow stated: “And don’t say these comments are racial”. It’s hard to take your statement any other way as people like you only seem to concern yourself with hiring standards when it comes to women and minorities as if all white male personnel are always qualified. Sorry pal, but I’ve been around long enough to know better than that. I don’t think that we, members of the LASD, need to contend with this sort of divisive language at this moment in our Department’s history. We need to stick together in a common cause to overcome the damage that has been done to our reputation and to rectify the unwarranted damage done to the innocent.
Justin,
Did the JDIC that Further to Follow refers to go out? Was the content of it what he said it was? Did he say anything that is factually incorrect? If he stated the truth why are you killing the messenger? Maybe because it’s not PC to say what he said. I thought cops were above the foolishness of PC’ness. I guess I was wrong.
I think the Lakers and Dodgers rosters should reflect the ethnicity of the city they represent.
lol
Answer to the question:
Talk about missing the point. I said nothing about the factual content of FTF’s statement. Neither did I exalt, condemn or even mention the JDIC message that was reference. I was specifically addressing the hiring standards he alluded to in comment #47. It’s just pure bias and blind to single-out a particular group for the problems plaguing LASD. So as you accuse me of being PC, I suggest you understand what you read before you comment.
Justin,
Fair enough.
Kinda seems a littlew like sour grapes though that you would scold FTF with this statement:
“It’s just pure bias and blind to single-out a particular group for the problems plaguing LASD”
while making this statement yourself:
“you only seem to concern yourself with hiring standards when it comes to women and minorities as if all white male personnel are always qualified”
If that doesn’t smack of Political Correctness, I don’t know what does. Defending women and minorities while pointing out that some white males are unqualified too. lol, no shit? White males can be assholes too?
You feel you have to remind us of that as if we were unaware of that?
In my opinion, your statement is as PC as it gets.
Justin, you are missing the point. Anytime you require a quota with a timeline, you are doing the department and the demographic you are striving to build up a huge disservice. The timeline forces the background people to slide lesser qualified candidates through no matter what race, color, or creed. It happens with male whites too, so I don’t see your problem with FTF’s comment. Hiring timelines and quotas destroy the very fabric of any organization simply because those doing the hiring are forced to hire less qualified candidates instead of taking the time to hire the best from every demographic. We all realize EVERY demographic has great people who would make great cops, but quotas and timelines prevent us from finding and hiring them.
No racial entity or gender has a monopoly on the problems plaguing LASD. The people causing the problems are as diverse as you can get, just like the dept. itself.
See. I can be PC too. I just think that cops already assume that based on their level of intelligence and common sense. I don’t feel the need to “remind” people of this the minute that somebody alludes to a possible problem with a particular demographic on the LASD.
In other words, I don’t feel the need to be PC. It only stands in the way of intelligent conversation due to it’s tendency to turn the discussion from the problem to a discussion of race or gender topics. Now everybody is trying to prove they aren’t a racist or sexist; while the real problem and any discussion of it takes a backseat to Political Correctness.
Much like what is happening right now between me and you.
BTW Justin
“We need to stick together in a common cause to overcome the damage that has been done to our reputation and to rectify the unwarranted damage done to the innocent.”
Here here. Amen. I couldn’t agree more.
The JDIC was correct and accurate. The one’s who have access to JDIC no exactly the one that went out. I’m for the most qualified applicant. Not a puppy mill to meet the jaded and rediculous visions of management. Unfortunately, if the Department did it right the first time, there would be no consent decree, etc. Anyone disagree with that? If so, you’re one them that got a free ride.
And Justin, sticking together sounds like a comment from the jumpout boys or a bunch of rogue cops getting ready to run a spanking by the watch commander. Stand up for youself and for what’s right.
This job requires courage. Do you have that?
Here’s a link to the latest O.I.R. Report. The 3000 boys are on page 75.
http://www.laoir.com/reports/Oversight-Report-for-WEB-(April%202012).pdf
I agree with FTF Justin. I tell my young deputies to make wise decisions. To be a leader and not to follow, because if you make a bad choice at the end of the day you stand alone.
Sure thing Further to Follow, lets go back to the lilly white Sherman Block days. Those were great times. Blacks and hispanics couldn’t get hired or promoted. If they did get hired they were stuck in Youth Athletic League and other community relations positions. There were no executives of color or women executives.
Women couldn’t get hired or promoted. They were thought of as too weak to work patrol. They were put in desk jobs and told they would get killed working a patrol assignment. Women were refused promotions. A federal judge had to take over hiring because Block and his handpicked white department wouldn’t give women promotions.
However, even with all these handpicked white guys running the department, corruption was rampant. The biggest arrest of department personnel in the history of the department took place during the arco narco corruption operations. Deputies were stealing, calling in false calls to stations and shooting pregnant women. The use of force was out of control. People were getting beat on a daily basis. You want to talk about jail force. Booking front at IRC was called beating front back then. No reports were even filled out for use of force.
The good old days were not good for the department or the community at large.
Well balance we know your agenda. Bet you have earned your position uuuhuuhhhh ill bet u go to santa anita and hollywood park so u can bet the race card. Another pissed off employee wanting something for nothing
And your post reminds me of a poor victim who is disgruntled cuz of his or background or race. Get over it you whiner. Your shallow comments are the reason the department is the mess we see now. Go play hoops with the neighbor kids at compton and nadeau. Nothing wrong with that. Kids love cops. Dont underestimate the yal
And irc was beating front. WondeR where u were with all his knowledge? Bet u didnt report that. So much for ur remark about the white brass huh? You seem to know all this info. Typical oportunist with an agenda. You make me and the other good cops sick to my stomach
And imbalance. Are u aware a person of color as u state is also a white person? Maybe your education, upbringing or prejudicial attitute prevents u from acknowledging that. Again, typical
FTF…..didn’t someone once before tell you to STFU. Well please take their advice. You should be ashamed of some of the crap you write.
oh ok newsflash. Seems my counterparts were defending my comments. Now go back and do your title 15 checks while I enjoy my Saturday. Infidel.
HEY BALANCE, HAVE YOU SEEN THE LATEST SERGENT PROMOTIONS? I REST MY CASE…. AGAIN
I see the Departments core values have brought us together once again.
Really Celeste, you protect the mindless rants of FURTHER TO FOLLOW? All I said was he blogs like he’s drunk and won’t obtain the rank of sergeant because he can’t spell it. Take a long hard look at the language and digs he makes towards others. It seems your editing is as objective as your articles.
Dear ?:
1. You have no idea what other comments I spike routinely.
2. I allow up a lot of rants—from all sides of the fence. (Until it starts getting out of hand, then my delete finger goes into irrational overdrive.)
3. What you just now said you wrote in your comment is not, in fact, what you actually wrote in the deleted comment.
4. Re-read 10 Rules for Commenting—Rule 4 and Rule 9, in particular.
What’s so different? And it’s cool to attack other bloggers as long it’s on your side of the fence? Re-read my posts compared to his and explain what’s so over the top.
Sorry question (?) mark. I have already acheived the rank of sergeant (sorry if I typed too fast in the past to mispell), and who knows, I might have promoted higher and retired.
Unfortunately, I am stating facts regarding JDICS, promotions and if you think I am full of crap, look at your e-mail and read the county JDIC. Maybe then, you will see my point
BTW Celeste, this guy has chased me from one article to the next and hates my candid points. As far as being a drunk, that will bite him in the ass later. If at anytime you feel I’m out of line, call me out and I’ll re-direct my issues. I don’t quite understand ? agenda, but maybe he should call personnel and ask what 2708 means in the payroll coding for pay. Just a thought