I’m still in my Vermont literary bubble (and Alan is still MIA but will turn up soon, he promises, likely tomorrow), nevertheless this needs to be said:
Both the Washington Post and the New York Times have had stories on immigration in the last few days.
The WaPo’s article indicated that citizens of Montgomery County are worried about an immigrant crime wave.
The NY Times story talked about a rise in federal prosecutions of immigrants. (And then there was the NYT’s excellent Monday editorial about the Bush administration’s painful and appalling “assemblyline prosecutions” of immigrants.)
Articles like any of these inevitably bring out the anti-immigrant troops who wave the tired and destructive trope about undocumented immigrants committing a disproportionate amount of crimes in the U.S.
But as the blog Immigration Impact rightly points out,, study after study indicates that—other than immigration violations specifically–immigrants commit much fewer crimes than do those of us who are born here.
One of the last big pieces of research to have addressed the issue was a 2007 study by University of California, Irvine, sociologist Rubén G. Rumbaut showed that immigrants were five times less likely to be in prison than native-born.
Here’s a smattering of what has turned up in Rumbaut’s and in other studies by folks who have bothered to actually look at the facts and do the math:
Rumbaut, found that for every ethnic group, without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are the least educated. This holds true especially for the Mexicans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans who make up the bulk of the undocumented population.The 3.5 percent incarceration rate for native-born men age 18-39 was five times higher than the 0.7 percent rate for immigrant men in 2000.
• Among male high-school dropouts, 9.8 percent of the native-born were behind bars in 2000, compared to only 1.3 percent of immigrants.
In 2000, 0.7 percent of foreign-born Mexican men and 0.5 percent of foreign-born Salvadoran and Guatemalan men were in prison.
• Among male high-school dropouts, 0.7 percent of foreign-born Mexicans and 0.6 percent of foreign-born Salvadorans and Guatemalans were behind bars in 2000.
***An analysis of data from the New Jersey Department of Corrections and U.S. Census Bureau by New Jersey’s Star-Ledger found that “U.S. citizens are twice as likely to land in New Jersey’s prisons as legal and illegal immigrants.” According to the Star-Ledger’s analysis, released in April 2008, “non-U.S. citizens make up 10 percent of the state’s overall population, but just 5 percent of the 22,623 inmates in prison as of July 2007.”
A June 2008 report from the Public Policy Institute of California found that foreign-born adults in California have lower incarceration rates than their native-born counterparts. Based on data from 2005, the report found that “the incarceration rate for foreign-born adults is 297 per 100,000 in the population, compared to 813 per 100,000 for U.S.-born adults. The foreign-born, who make up roughly 35% of California’s adult population, constitute 17% of the state prison population, a proportion that has remained fairly constant since 1990.”
The main figure used to back up the claim of immigrant criminality is a 2005 report from the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) which concludes that 27 percent of all inmates in federal prisons are “criminal aliens.”8 However, the use of this figure as “evidence” that undocumented immigrants are prone to criminality is not only highly misleading—it is simply wrong.
All immigration violations fall under the federal system. Even in cases where an immigrant has not committed a criminal offense, or has committed an offense that is relatively minor, immigration violations are automatically prosecuted under the federal system. As a result, undocumented immigrants in federal prisons may have committed a criminal offense, or they may simply be imprisoned in the federal system because of their lack of immigration status.
The federal prison population is a small share of the total prison population. One cannot make generalizations about the incarceration rates of immigrants based on the immigrant share of the federal inmate population since, according to a 2007 report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, only about 8 percent of the U.S. prison population was in federal prisons as of June 30, 2006.
Again, at a state and local level, where most prisoners are held, immigrants are the least likely to commit crimes and go to prison.
Since I find the erroneous Immigrants-Are-Criminals POV so often in the comments section here, I thought it was time to clear things up.
Thank you Celeste, this issue is one of the most tired and worn out, right wing, xenophobe, zeitgeist tomes the USA public has been subjected to. The hysterics and propaganda of the anti immigrant, nativist, haters, fell flat on it’s face in the last election and it’s obvious that these anti democratic forces attempts to instill fear into the American public’s psyche, with phony corrupted statistics about an immigrant crime wave has also failed in it’s ugly mission, it’s all about the economy, and the economy is all about us, native and immigrant together.
Thanks Celeste for helping spread the word and busting the huge myth that immigrants commit crime. Even though the research is there, it is very difficult to change people minds about this issue. I have taken criminology classes where students argue with professors that immigrants cause crime.
PS-Rumbaut is awesome professor!
Since when is the U.S. economy about jobs for the mojados?
What pendejo thinks it’s the responsibility of U.S. taxpayers to pay for the burden of illegal immigrants. If I have to pay for schools, welfare, hospitals or prison for any illegal alien it’s a waste of my tax dollars.
Somebody better tell Sheriff Baca that there really isn’t a 20%-25% illegal alien populaton in his county jails, and county jails aren’t filled with federal immigration criminals, comprendes mendez?
How much money does Don Menso send to the starving Africans, I wonder who many “mayates” Don Menso would want to support his his barrio?
Some indisputable stats: According to the FBI, abut half of all gang members in the US sare likely illegal immigrants from south of the border; 75% on L A’s most wanted list are typically illegal immigrants, as are about 25% of all inmates in California detention centers (perhaps as much as 1/3 in L A County, according to a Sheriff’s Dept. estimate last year).
No one, certainly not me, claims that all illegals are criminals; but it’s indisputable that they are among the most vicious criminals and comprise the fast-growing segment of the violent gangbanger population.
One source, the widely respected, non-partisan City Journal out of New York, in an article by Heather MacDonald, Winter 2004: She starts with, “Some of the most violent criminals at large today are illegal aliens… In Los Angeles, for example, dozens of members have sneaked back into town after being deported for crimes such as murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and drug trafficking…”
(Note that these are “at large” criminals, not those we’re counting amount the prison population. Another huge problem is that it’s much harder to catch criminals here illegally because they don’t have legal licenses or social security numbers, have many aliases and so on. That holds for hit-and-runs as well.)
She goes on: “In Los Angeles, 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1.500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17.000) are for illegal aliens.
Some other figures: “The California Department of Justice reported that in 1995, 60% of the 18th-St. Gang is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia… the gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.”
“The leadership of the Columbian Lil’ Cycos Gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L A’s McArthur Park, was about 60% illegal in 2002, says former assistant U. S. Attorney Luis Li…”
Has the problem gotten better since then? Hardly. Curiously, now that he’s about to leave office, Rocky Delgadillo seems bolder about laying out the problem. In his LA Times Op Ed of August 2008, “Going Global to Fight Gangs: LA’s Biggest Gangs Have Gone International; our Law Enforcement Must Do the Same,” he focuses on Ms-13 and 18th- Street to argue that simply deporting illegal alien gangmembers and criminals (as the naive Jamiel’s Law advocates) is NOT the answer:
“In the 1990’s, the US strategy centered on deportation: Undocumented gang members convicted of crimes wee sent back to their countries of origin… But… they grew into transnational ‘supergangs’…the FBI now acknowledges that MS-13 and 18th-Street gangs have become America’s new organized crime…” Delgadillo details how much more dangerous and transnational these gangs have become, what greater menaces south of the border and here, in just the last 5 years.
(According to an NBC — I think, it may have been one of the other network news reports — Evening News report last night, this problem is now so national that Atlanta is the center for the Latino drug syndicate’s distribution efforts on the whole east coast, which is HUGE. Woody, what are you doing about that?)
For this reason, and because the profiling inherent in Jamiel’s Law would be a bonanza for ACLU-type lawyers — OR it would lead to widespread diminishing of all our civil rights, if we were all to be stopped without caused by the cops — I disagree with some of MacDonald’s conclusions about how the LAPD and County law enforcement should handle this problem. However, she’s right when she says:
“Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis,” MacDonald says, going on to detail her perception of the PC prohibition against this, and the consequences to their careers of cops and pols who violate this unspoken taboo. She is right, however, in arguing that since many of the illegal immigrants who commit “minor” crimes like tagging and petty theft go on to commit bigger crimes, it’s the human equivalent of the “broken window” theory, and nabbing them in the bud would make a lot more sense. She acknowledges however that this is a federal problem and there is blame to go around to the highest levels —
People like Celeste will continue to try to brand anyone who points out the facts as fear-mongering, implied racists and to “set them straight.” But facts is facts, and while I give Bratton and LAPD high marks for actually reducing the rate of homicide and violent crime since the 1995- 2002 stats I quote above, despite being stretched way too thin, it does a huge disservice to the public to try to whitewash the problem as you do here and try to tar the messenger with the brush of xenophobic fear-mongering as you do here, Celeste — I note you never distinguish legal from illegal “immigrants” which is part of the strategy of branding anyone who does so, as xenophobic. (Although you do this all in your polite, patient way, as one would talk down to a member of the flat earth society.) This must be tackled with the collective will we devote to international terrorism.
(Having said this, unlike many critics of the current administration, I actually think that the Chief, FBI and other officials ARE dealing with the problem in very tangible ways, without actually being able to state the stats that distinguish “legal vs. illegal”. It seems to be sort of an incremental, sideways approach that they’re required to implement very cautiously — look at the latest claim by the ACLU that LAPD engages in profiling even now.)
Ay Cabron …. Espera un minuto somebody forgot to tell these criminals that illegal aliens never commit crimes.
***************
Deputies and officers from the county Probation Department, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, County Department
This must be another mistake, mexicans never commit crimes in the U.S.
*********************
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_11452778
Arraignment postponed for suspects in Covina Hills slaying
Posted: 01/14/2009 12:53:12 PM PST
POMONA – The arraignment for four teenagers suspected in the shooting death of a Covina Hills woman last March was postponed until February 18.
Christopher Santana, 19, of Covina, Christopher Stratis, 17, of Azusa, Christine Alegre, 16, and Megali Fernandez, 17, of West Covina, have been charged with shooting Hsiao Hing Hsu, 45, of Covina Hills, officials said.
Hsu was on the phone with a 911 dispatcher when she was shot.
Victor Maurtua, 19, of West Covina, was also charged but remained at large until recently. Authorities this week announced he was arrested near Tijuana and returned to the U.S. to face charges.
The article is unfortunate because it fails to discriminate between illegal and legal immigrants, and ignores the first generation children of illegals.
Also,
is silly. Illegal immigrants are often deported rather than incarcerated. It’s cheaper and easier.
Also important is the sad situation where hard working well behaved illegal immigrant parents produce a second generation that is highly prone to violence – primarily through gangs. This effect is obvious in the Southwest.
I live in Phoenix. For many years I monitored the police scanner as a hobby. As the number of firearms crimes calls rose dramatically, they were highly concentrated in poorer hispanic communities.
The illegal immigration issue is a major problem with no simple answers. But denying the facts through poor analysis doesn’t help.
On the one hand, we cannot possibly accept all the people who want to come here. On the other, we have to deal with the reality of those who are already here, and the human tragedies involved in the whole thing.
Currently on the LAPD’s “Most Wanted” List (using the Daily News’ Searchable Database, which allows you to search by race, there are: 6 Asians, 12 Blacks, 19 Whites, and 166 Hispanics.
This appears to confirm that Hispanics are much more likely to be “at large” that other races because of their far greater numbers of illegal status, which makes it harder to track them down and easier to flee south of the border.
Naturally, no breakdown on legal status but if we extrapolate from the general population, and especially if we factor in those born to illegal immigrants, a large percentage.
Looking more closely at the Most Wanted Dababase, the figures noted above (#7) become even more concerning.
Of the 166 people of Hispanic descent, 98 are wanted for murder, 20 for Hit & Runs (these cases usually involved fatalities or serious injury), the rest for Grand Theft, Burglary, a few for “sex crimes” or fraud;
Only 1 person of another races is wanted for Hit & Runs.
Of the 6 Asians, only 1 (a woman) is wanted for Murder; 3 for attempted murder, the other two for violent crime.
Of the 12 Blacks, only 1 is wanted for Murder; the rest for Attempted Murder, Grand Theft, sex crimes/ misc. violent crime, 1 ID Theft.
Of the 19 Whites, 3 are wanted for Murder; the rest for Grand Theft, a couple for sex crimes, the rest for Forgery, Insurance Fraud, 1 kidnapping, 1 (with Middle Eastern name) for Hit & Run. None are wanted for Attempted Murder. (Seems whites kill fairly rarely, but with greater accuracy when they do — wonder if that’s born out by stats over time. Wonder if these are more likely to be premeditated crimes of revenge/passion, like Sylmar and the other notorious cases we hear about, than those done for “business” during the course of gang activity.)
There’s no doubt that the stats involving Hispanics, with the huge number wanted for murder vs. all other races (98 of 166 are wanted for murder, only 1 by a woman, vs. only 5 wanted for Murder from all other races) bears out that Hispanics with likely gang associations have become by far the most violent segment AND the most likely to be “at large.” (There may well be a much larger number of other races arrested for murder, but they’re more easily caught.)
Wow! The xenophobia, racism, and anti immigrant sentiment is certainly thick in here! cough, cough, choke, holding my nose, cough, cough.
The nativist, opinionated, anti Latino statistic twisters, present their bouquet of ugly generalizations and stereotypes in stark, naked, hate filled blue ray vision.
” Also important is the sad situation where hard working well behaved illegal immigrant parents produce a second generation that is highly prone to violence – primarily through gangs. This effect is obvious in the Southwest.”
I really get a kick out of comments like the above, “scientific” racism, reminiscent of the Jim Crow South which in those days would have sounded something like this,
“The uh Nigra, is a basically docile and hard working cotton chopper, they love singing those field chants and gospel songs on Sundays. The uh Nigra has simple tastes, and is easily satisfied by the small pleasures that were supplied by the Plantation owners, ample food, a roof over they heads, hard work in the fields and stables, and a secure and stable existence provided by the Massa up in the Big House.
Now these freed Nigras are an abomination and a scourge on the country. Evaa since they got freed the animalistic African tendencies they have deep in they black hearts has come to da surface. They all just natural criminals and murderers by nature show nuff.”
The new face of racism as manifest destiny is reversed.
Don Quixote is an expert on xenophobia and racism just ask Don Quixote about the lazy condescending mayates.
Or ask him about the sneaky gavachos who are invading his beloved EastSide. I heard Mary Cummins is moving into the EastSide, run Don Culo run. jejeje
http://laeastside.com/2009/01/viva-la-revolucion/
Celeste, there are ENORMOUS flaws in the statistical study that you relate. Please go back to using emotions rather than incorrectly trying to use logic and analysis.
don quixote Says:
Yeah, if it vaguely sounds like something a racist once said, obviously it is racist. And Don Quixote is an idiot.
Rather than throwing around the R word as if you knew what it meant, why not try to refute my assertions, eh? Too much heavy mental lifting for you>
John Moore, Your “scientific” racist statements in which you claim that second generation children of “well behaved” immigrants are prone to violence and gangs speaks volumes in itself.
Challenging the statistical evidence (that immigrants commit less crime than native born citizens), that Celeste has produced here for us, based on your pathetic “hobby” of listening to the Police scanner to determine your “empirical” evidence vis a vis immigrants also speaks volumes, but in this case of your own xenophobia and reactionary mind
Excuse me, that would be “highly prone” to violence and gangs as quoted by Mr Police Scanner.
don quixote
That’s a pretty nice trick. YOU call it “scientific” racism, and then put the scare quotes in as if I used the term.
And, of course, you MISS the main challenge I gave to Celeste’s statistics, which is they conflate legal and illegal immigration. Where did you learn to read… little Marxist propaganda school?
As for throwing around the pejorative “racist” – do you even know what the word means? It would appear otherwise from your usage.
As for police scanner listening, it is anecdotal and was offered as such, and you damn well know it. There are plenty of studies documenting second generation gang behavior. Oh, and by the way, those gang members who are criminals are NOT immigrants – they are native born Americans.
So I’m callin you down… prove my statements are “racist” or STFU!
Mr. Police Scanner, when you make statements as asinine and absurd as the ones you make here concerning the supposed “highly prone to violence” nature of the children of immigrants, studied by you in Phoenix on your police scanner, and then put this crap forward as your scientific analysis and conclusion then you force your audience here to view you with the dunce cap of racist sitting in the corner.
And by the way you challenged nothing the Celeste posted.Her information and post stands unchallenged by xenophobes like yourself.
Don Quixote,
You all me names. You refuse to debate my points.
You obviously cannot make a logical case for your position.
You refuse my challenge to prove your slander of me as racist on this issue.
You are a dishonorable idiot.
BTW…
Would you deign to define the words
“racist” and “xenophobe”?
Or did you just pick them up them from chants at demonstrations?
john moore don’t waste your time with this guy don quixote he is a racist and a liar he has countless posts calling blacks horrible things and calls other peope racist.its only racism to him if its against mexicans.
Roy, yeah, I sorta figured that
It’s pretty easy to spot a toad when it opens its mouth.
Of course, the elephant in THIS room that no one is talking about is the comment that illegal immigrants commit less crime than the rest of us. Well, of course they do. There are fewer illegal immigrants.
Then there is this:
PUHLEZE!!! a little clarity here… immigrants or ILLEGAL immigrants. And yes, the term “undocumented” is leftish hogwash. I live by the border, I live in an area that is probably 90% Hispanic and they are by a significant majority ANTI-ILLEGAL Immigrant unless of course the Hispanic in question is a politician, in which case they are anti-border controlling fences, anti check-points and pro La Raza!!
On the other hand, I note that it is typically the left who are quick to use pejoratives in discourse (Are you reading this don quixote?)
Oh, and I really wish you wouldn’t “steal” the hero of Cervantes’ work as your nom-de-pixel. After all, Don Quioxte was an honorable man.
Nom-de-pixel. I like that!
Sure you love it. You’re a racist troll.
Ah, will MAV convince Dennis Zine to return your donation, racist? Might as well face it. You’re baggage.
Speaking of trolls..
I like your website ,and like to communicate with everyone on this issue!