The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department is unable to fulfill its policing contract with Lancaster, the largest of the 42 “contract” cities in LA County, which the nation’s largest sheriff’s department has long been hired to police.
That’s what then Lancaster City Manager, Mark Bozigian, told residents at a recent Lancaster city council meeting.
The LASD was “shorting” its contract with the city by about 24 deputies a month, Lancaster Mayor R. Rex Parris explained to concerned residents, at the same meeting.
“We’re down eight patrol units per shift,” he said. “That’s eight patrol units that are not out on Lancaster’s streets every day.”
Lancaster City Council, December 11, 2018
The reason behind this shorting in Lancaster, and reportedly other contract cities, is a large and well-known shortage of deputies department-wide. As of April of last year, the department had approximately 1000 deputy vacancies, resulting in $142 million in overtime.
“Everything with these contracts is tracked to the minute,” said a department source of the Lancaster situation. “And you can’t keep mandating overtime to pick up the slack.” The result is “exhausted deputies,” he said.
And exhausted deputies are what Lancaster is dealing with, according to Mayor Parris.
The department is “understaffed, and those are the facts,” the mayor said. Deputies have been working double shifts “which is dangerous for them, and it can only lead to mistakes.”
As a consequence, Lancaster officials have decided it is time to make changes. Until the LASD can work out its deputy vacancy problem, the mayor said, the city was instituting its own solution, namely a hybrid law enforcement model, in which the city will form a second police force to fill in the policing gap, and to “make sure that the people of Lancaster are safe.”
Contract policing
The contract service model that the LASD began in the mid-1950s, now offers policing to such incorporated LA County cities as Lakewood, La Mirada, Malibu, West Hollywood, Lynwood, Palmdale plus 34 others, including Lancaster.
The model includes a wide range of services, and allows each city to choose the level of service they want, buffet style, thus choosing the number of deputies and supervisors, et al, that best meets its needs.
These contract law enforcement programs provide combined annual revenue for the LASD of approximately $600 million.
Part of the attraction of the contract arrangement is that costs and resources are shared, with cities paying only their proportionate “user costs,” and not paying, if say, some of La Mirada’s deputies have to rush to Pico Rivera when there is an emergency. Thus, contract cities can draw upon the full resources of the largest sheriff’s department in the world, when needed, while on most days, only paying for the time and personnel that various cities require, which theoretically means far better policing for less money than a separate city police force could provide.
Right now, however, according to Lancaster’s mayor and other officials, the LASD’s contract model is being compromised by the LASD’s vacancy problem. And the problem isn’t new, they say.
“It’s been going on for the past four years,” said Lancaster’s Vice Mayor Marvin Crist. “And it’s gotten progressively worse.
Actually, Mayor Paris said, interrupting, “It’s been going on for nearly as long as I’ve been here,” in other words, “ten years.”
Hybrid law enforcement
As a first step toward the new model, in December, the Lancaster city council appointed Public Safety Director Lee D’Errico as the city’s new police chief, and directed him to hire a consultant firm to help develop this new hybrid law enforcement model, which would then work in partnership with the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station.
The idea, explained then-City Manager Mark Bozigian, is that this hybrid set up would “allow the sheriff’s department to focus on what they do best,” while Lancaster’s own soon-to-form police force would focus on “quality-of-life issues, which take a lot of time,” according to Bozigian.
“If we continue to do what we’re doing, we’re going to continue to get those same results,” Bozigian said. “If we look at how we use our best resources—what we do best, and what everyone else and the sheriff’s department can do best—we’re going to make this community safer.”
The consultant’s report, detailing how the hybrid plan should work, is due back in March.
Lancaster’s new mini-police force will reportedly be made up of retired LA County sheriff’s deputies, thus making it easier for the city’s force to work with the LASD’s contract officers.
“Right now we have what can charitably be called an emergent situation,” said Mayor Parris, of the need for the new hybrid concept.
Having deputies “working double shifts, working without breaks, without days off, which has been the current state of affairs” is not sustainable, Mayor Parris said. And clearly, the sheriff’s department will not be solving the problem in the near future, he added.
Whereas their new force can be up and running quickly, officials hope. “We hope it can be a model for other contract cities,” said Parris.
In the meantime, department sources say that Lancaster should be getting a refund.
When we contacted the LASD about the Lancaster issue, spokesperson Nicole Nishida sent us the following department-issued statement.
“The City has been in discussion with the Department on this proposed hybrid policing model,” the LASD statement read. “It is in the very early stages of discussion. You will have to reach out to the City for further information on their proposed model.”
New sheriff Alex Villanueva made recruiting and hiring more deputies a campaign promise, contending that Sheriff Jim McDonnell had failed to do what was necessary to get the department’s numbers up, leading to the present shortage of sworn officers.
Lancaster by James Stansek, Lancaster Station Facebook
Im struggling to find a reason why anyone would want to join a corrupt agency where they are finding semen of male deputies is being found in the female inmates house in female facilities, females deputy trainees are given the option of doing sexual favors for being signed of of training assignments, where executives offer “pay for play” to suboordinates, where deputies are being found in forbidden situations with children explorers. Why would anyone want to br apart of a department that is under federal investigation and monitoring?
Lancaster just needs to he patient! Sheriff AV campaign promise was to increase hiring and he just recently brought back one previously terminated deputy so that’s a start. So any day now hiring will increase and more fired deputies will return to work…
They think they have a problem now?!?!? Watch what happens in 2-3 years. Those that know the history dating back to 1987 through 1992 and then what happened til about 1998 know exactly what will happen.
The department has kicked that can down the road for 3 decades and will soon bite them in the ass. Do the math, the LASD is truly fucked in 2-3 years. No hiring craze will be even close to fixing it.
And the BOS has a TON of OWNERSHIP in what’s coming down the pipe.
Are you really attempting to herald the reinstatement of Caren Carl Mandoyan with alleged stalking & domestic abuse charges that were upheld by a County Appeals Board? Definitely not a good look for the new administration.
Many deputies have been terminated for lesser minor alleged charges so with that being said, I agree that the shortage within LASD should be filled shortly.
The shortage of deputies in Lancaster/Antelope Valley comes with mixed sentiments of those who are aware and were a part of United States v. County Los Angeles (Antelope Valley) (C.D. CAL.)
Ninety nine problems in Antelope Valley and running short of deputies is NOT the only one.
It’s the culture.
Many leave custody and go to patrol thinking that they have paid their dues only to be treated like garbage by their training officers and other deps. 16-20 hour days during training, sometimes not being allowed to eat, constantly being “broke off” on a regular basis, the constant humiliation. That treatment doesn’t fly with today’s patrol trainee. It is no wonder custody has been a hiring pool for other departments.
It’s time to knock the rediculous games off, and go back to training and mentoring these young deps. It is no wonder that the department is so short staffed.
It’s our hope that the department returns to the department everyone wants to be a part if, hopefully the new Sheriff will correct this. I have heard good things, Some things are already improving morale. That being said, he can’t become complacent.
Any good recruiter looking to fill the ranks of his/department need only wait at the end of shift change to speak with exiting deps about how great his department training is. I can assure you they will not leave without any commitments.
Sheriff Villanueva, are you listening?
Hey “X,” if you are going to comment, please ensure that you proofread your commentary’s. Secondly, the statements you are making reference to are being perpetrated by rogue individuals. Eventually, these individuals will be caught (as some have), and will be dealt with accordingly.
Hey “X,” if you are going to make comments, please ensure that you proofread your commentary’s. Further, the examples you are stating, were perpetrated by rogue individuals within the department. Furthermore, these individuals will be caught (as some have) and be dealt with accordingly. Every organization has its “bad apples” some more rotten than others. Nonetheless, I would surmise that you are one of those individuals who complains about everything and anything and offers no solutions to the problem(s). Just in case you may have “blinders” on, there are many, many loyal, ethical, industrious, proud Deputies in this organization which are part of the norm, not the exception. Have a nice day!
Really? You work custody and think you have paid your dues? Sounds like you weren’t prepared for patrol my friend. Like many deputies in my era on training….you kept ur mouth shut and stood clear in the hallways of the station. I lost 20 lbs on training and devoted many hours of my own time prior to FSLA. I also paid for my off training party. After I completed training I felt I had accomplished something. I would not trade any of it….you sound like a millennial who wants everything handed to him…I’m going to guess you got time outs when you were bad instead of the rod……
“My Take on This”….you are correct. The culture within the department has become caustic and inexcusable. Further, when you have individuals which belong to cliques (i.e., Bandidos, Regulators etc.), the caustic environment will continue to flourish, while also creating a pugnacious rivalry between patrol stations (i.e., East L.A. vs. Century, Carson, So. L.A. etc.). It is great to have a station identifier, which stimulates morale and camaraderie, however not to the extent of creating division. Furthermore, the front line supervisors (Sgt.’s) and middle managers (Lt.’s), need to become more involved and proactive in addressing and challenging these individuals and if necessary begin disciplining them.
Let’s face it, a “career” in law enforcement is a tough sell to today’s youngens. And with the trials and tribulations that the LASD has gone through in the last 20 years, the Department is an even harder sell. I have read over and over LASD members saying that they would not want their family and friends hiring on in LE and particularly the LASD. LASD members have always been the core recruiters for the Department and if that attitude does not change and change fast, there is no hope of turning the corner in the recruitment battle.
Perhaps Sheriff Alex can change that feeling, but some his moves will not helped his cause. I speak of some of his promotions – no use saying which ones – and the rehire of Deputy Mandoyan. Yes, Alex that stuff will blow over with the public, but Department members are watching and don’t like the odor of cronyism one bit. They have smelled that odor for far too long and are wanting a leader who actually walks what he talks. For a guy who spent his career complaining about being treated unfairly, many of your moves have offended many people’s sense of fairness – start with the reserved seating for ELA Deps at your swearing in. As I say, your troops are watching and their attitude goes far beyond whether they “like” you or not. It is paramount in helping you in getting the Department up to strength.
And I agree with the comments of @ My Take On This, regarding the treatment of trainees. Personally, I have always thought it is bullshit to treat a fellow Deputy like crap, Trainee or not. Believe it or not, the LASD has not always done so. Not back in my day. Trainees were “new” guys (this was before they had ladies in patrol), who were basically told to shut-up, listen and learn. They were treated like……………well, new people who needed to learn the ropes. There were no restrictions on going in the coffee room or being able to eat during the shift – although in those days we always ate on the hood of our radio cars so we could hear the radio, not INSIDE some restaurant (later complaining when someone would approach and asked a question – I’ve read whining comments about that, SMH!). They were treated like a lateral from another agency who needed to learn how to do the job the LASD way. No, they were not invited to join in to the briefing jokes and chatter. They were FNG’s, there to learn. I think that atmosphere would serve the Department best, in many ways. They are, after all, just like you were when you came out of the jail, wearing tan and green and wanting to learn how to do the Lord’s work. Not play a lot of juvenile games.
He just brought back a deputy fired for domestic violence and staling. That is not improving recruitment, but will drive good men away.
Amen!!
Yes, I agreee that much is to be desired for uniform and updated patrol training in the Sheriff’s Department.
The old antiquated cowboy mentality doesn’t cut it anymore to train those who truly want to make a difference.
In my days (1963-93) I remember our press relations to be excellent, and our Sheriff (Ptitches and Block) to be excellent and were for their deputies. Recruiting was done largely by teams that visited the active Army and Marine installations nation wide and recruited with the services cooperation. Individual deputies caried a prepared packet of cards for recruiting people they felt they would like to work with. It worked! In a military leadership course I once took, we did what was called the “nine dot” game, teaching how to think “outside the box.” It might work with the LASD!
Creepy Carl should not have been reinstated.
Hit the nail on the head. The new crowd thinks training should be a college course and everything should be done for them so they get an award. Truth is, your very life may depend on the training you received.
We shall see how the new boy changes the system and hires what’s needed. The next several month will be busy for Lacera as March madness approaches.
And we can all thank Lee Baca, W Stonich, L Waldie, Paul Tanaka, J McDonnell for this mess! Why would anyone want to be a cop/ deputy these days! DOJ should do an additional criminal investigation into the crimes by these crooks.
@Frankie Flowers
Yoire the type of of person who would never say it his face. You don’t even know the guy. That’s the problem with cowards like yourself.
AV, a lot of good hard working Deputies are sitting at home. Sitting eagerly waiting to return to work and support their families. I hope those files are on your desk.
Some of those same individuals would help in such shortages on the department.
Witness la just posted a story on the plan to open a women’s jail in the high desert. Witness la was appalled that the families of criminals from the urban areas of Los Angeles would be inconvenienced with a commute to the high desert area in order to visit their family member behind bars. As for the people from the high desert having to deal with commutes to greater Los Angeles area, witness la is of course silent.
Witness la’s attitude towards the communities of the high desert isn’t unique. As is the case in most of the country now, large urban areas attitude toward exurbs and rural areas runs from apathetic to down right hostile. (E.g.witness la’s guest story on small counties cooperating with the hated ice agency) Lancaster and Palmdale are stuck with a Los Angeles county bureaucracy that is always going to see them as second class. You have to give the city of Lancaster credit for at least trying.
Go back to your TV show Adam 12. Closest you’ll ever get to Police work. Are you Ted Abaldufus
Los Angeles County Taxpayer:
Responding to your post on Deputy Mandoyan over in the “Brady List” story, from KTLA News:
https://ktla.com/2019/01/15/l-a-county-sheriff-villanueva-reinstates-deputy-fired-over-domestic-abuse-stalking-allegations-who-served-as-campaign-aide/
As a reader commentator to an L.A. Times story on the new sheriff said:
Same circus, different clowns.
Answer:
Because the public doesn’t know about all of that.
Ignorance is bliss.
Just saying….I must respectfully disagree as far as your comments on training. You get very few second chances in life….you don’t want to find that out in an alley by yourself and some idiot trying to get your gun. Clicking your heels and repeating ‘ there is no place like home” is not going to cut it. Training offers you the chance to learn that fact. I will agree in the current political climate, I would hesitate recommending a career in law enforcement to anyone.
A bunch of creepers and woman beaters. They can stay home.
NOTE:
Be sure to click onto the story from the L.A. Times that accompany this link, and also be sure to read the reader commentary therein.
Your comment today is the most precise and accurate statement that I’ve read on this blog ever, as your last sentence summed it to the T.
I can neither add or take away from it.
Just to be clear, I am not saying that someone who has just left custody has paid his dues. Some deps have a very easy time in custody. The county should get their money’s worth when deps hit patrol. The point I was trying to make is that the reality is many young deps have not yet learned what it is to work hard. They are coming out of an economy that only allowed them to work 2-4 hours per day in a part-time job, if they were lucky. Now, they are being asked to work longer hours in a stressful environment. I am fine with that, got to grow up some time. What I am arguing is that the generation that is coming up is not accustomed to being told what to do, that they do not know how to work hard, and were probably coddled in their youth. We are on the same page regarding our disdain for the millennial generations lack of humility, work-ethic, and everything else that will hinder them in this career. I am not a millennial, and may very well be twice the age of some of the commenters here. I do not lack life-experience. Again, my point is this is the generation that we have to work with. I am not saying we should kiss their behind, the point I am trying to make is that we should not treat our partners like garbage. We should mentor and show them what it is to be a great deputy, not be a training ground for another department’s future law enforcement officers.
Sadly, those who are responsible for the current state of affairs are long gone. Two got convicted and one in prison. Others may still, one day,be held accountable.
In the meantime, how is Sheriff AV going to fix the mess he inherited?
Let’s be honest here, the Mandoyan reinstatement requires Sheriff Villanueva’s explanation. The Sheriff can’t hide behind “it’s a personnel matter therefore confidential”. If Deputy Mandoyan was fired unfairly, regardless of the Civil Service protections & hearing, then before his reinstatement he should have been asked to waive the personal confidentiality right. As it is, this looks as an abuse of power, if not, then the light of day would clear that up nicely. If there is a refusal to explain, you’ll be looking at the old axiom, “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”. Sheriff Villanueva please explain… thank you!
The “blame game” expiration date is long gone and the latest news about Deputy Mondayan doesn’t help matters at all. More to come, I’m sure.
It appears he is fixing the mess by creating a new mess.
I know its a moot point and sounds like a dead horse is being beaten yet again, and it’s like the pink elephant in the room, but the decision the decision made to implement the “Dual Track System” shares much of the blame for manpower shortages. When deputies were required to go to patrol, this meant there was always a pool of fresh patrol personnel to draw from. It also meant deputies knew they either had to “sink or swim” during patrol training and there was a great incentive to swim. Most rose to the challenge and swam.
Now, you not only don’t have to go to patrol, but you can have a 30 year career in courts and promote through the ranks. No incentive whatsoever for some to give up their cushy spots, overtime, 99% likelihood of getting off on time and controlled environment.
Just like a mama birds gives their fledglings a push to go airborne, so do some deputies need a push to go to patrol.
My Take:. Agreed……….
@The Past. I don’t know Mandoyan, but I have heard he was good Street cop. I’m not justifying the allegations or his behavior, but last I checked your innocent til proven guilty, just like any other piece of shit criminal. We have those same rights and seeing as he’s not in prison or jail I imagine those allegations were baseless or there was no evidence. I don’t know anyone that’s been alleged of those crimes and not in prison. Just a thought. But who knows the street jury is quick to convict
Thank ALADS for backing Deputy Mondayan who curried favor for the 1.3 million smackeroonies supporting Villanueva, thus the political payback by reinstatement. Can’t wait to hear the excuses from ALADS. This is an embarrassment and the beginning of the end for bringing back any credibility to LASD or to ALADS. Surely Paul Tanaka has a grin on his face even behind bars. Reform, rebuild and reinstatement? You can’t be serious!
Let me preface by saying I haven’t been on the Department as long as some, and don’t have a “Department Resume” filled with a huge list of varying patrol assignments, however I do have an advanced degree and “lengthy resume” of non-Department and life experience. Having said that, and to those who wll care to listen, as a patrol-trained custody sergeant, I haven seen many eager, hard-working and resdy to learn young deputies get there “wings clipped” and drive beaten to “0” by supervisors who are over-aggressive and more than willing to discipline and throw them under the bus to appease and curry favor with out of touch and ambivalent Department executives.
Instead of being a mentor and teacher, these supervisors default to blaming and not supporting the deputies. I have seen, and supported…yes supported, numerous “go-getter” and “could, shoulda, future leaders” Department members (deputies and custody assistants) in their efforts to leave the Department. Many have been left with such a bad taste based on their initial introduction to the Department, that even after I tell them Custod Dividion is an anomaly and that many more opportunities are open to them after they successfully complete patrol training, the die is cast and set for there wanting to leave. A loss to the Department and LA Count tax payers.
The big take away…these employees want to work patrol, just not for LASD.
@Out of Touch, perhaps you’re right & if so, it should be easily explained by the Sheriff. There had to be several levels of investigation both criminal & internal, that lead to the decision to terminate. This then was followed by a Civil Service hearing & the sustaining of management’s decision. Please consider the optics, Mandoyan was the ever loyal soldier in his campaign & voila the reinstatement. I get that McDonnell was considered heavy handed in matters of discipline but in this matter there are lots of other players who came to the same conclusion. The fact that Mandoyan wasn’t prosecuted or that you heard he was a “good street cop” is scant justification for Sheriff Villanueva not explaining what warrants public discussion. Was McDonnell unilateral in his decision, was the Civil Service Commission compromised, was the IAB staff incompetent, biased or dishonest? Did the City Attorney or DA reject the case based on the difficulty of conviction or because the allegation didn’t happen? I for one generally don’t take the answer “just cause” or as in the Baca/Tanaka era “don’t dare ask”. If you want to return to the Baca Boyz ethical world, then all you have to do is not hold the brass accountable, including the Sheriff. All this should be easily explainable unless it isn’t, maybe even a little inconvenient.
Perhaps the answer is that Mandoyan warranted discipline short of termination & if that’s the case just say so.
I take it your advanced degree isn’t in spelling.
With My Own Eyes; Ummmmm.,,,,,,,
What?!?!
To 1/2 cents: I agree with your statement.
You have Sergeants that promoted via the custody track and who are now eligible to go to Courts without patrol training or expertise. In my opinion 2 yrs in the field does not make you a qualified patrol deputy. You have Sergeants that have less experience and time on the department evaluating deputies who have paid their dues and who have more experience in the current field.
We all know what this is and where it is going. Backwards pre-2000. You have spineless sergeants at the helm right now sucking cock for the next promotion and good ol boy handshakes to accommodate all of region II folks. Look at the big picture. This is the reality, Deputies know all the loopholes to get promoted and “how to avoid” going to patrol. I just had one of those cocksuckers give me my evaluation and I have more time and experience on the department. Nothing is fair in this world and neither in the LASD. It’s all about who you know and who you blow!!
To with my own eyes: you sound like a Deputy who did 2 yrs out in the field and got promoted to Sgt. You have no room in commenting about working hard and paying your dues regarding patrol unless you did over 5 years or more. Custody should never be compared to a Patrol assignment. My hat is off too all patrol deputies who stayed out longer and promoted and went back out to the field versus finding some Cush custody job.
There are many employees on the department who have advanced degrees and had a life before becoming deputies and have been screwed over in promotions because of the previous regime or not in the proverbial CAR. Lets hope that doesn’t repeat itself. You should consider yourself lucky with your promotion under the McDonnel regime.
This New Sheriff is turning a once respected Agency into a bunch of Soy Boys (feel free to look up the term). Very sad. LASD (LASO) was once feared by criminals. I just read what the Sheriff did with Stalker. I agree with another post. Very Creepy. Carl, I hope you didn’t do what they alleged.
Sorry about the spelling….not an English major either.
Okay…more than five years patrol yes, “paid your dues” and “time on.” Sorry to say I’ve seen many lazy, imcompetent lumps who so called paid their dues and have time on. Should they be anointed with a promotion or special spot simply because they have time on and have paid their so called dues? Experience, coupled with intelligence, integrity and real knowledge should be the requisite qualities to be a leader.
Don’t know about you, but custody was my first experience in what being a deputy sheriff was about. My first interactions from a supervisor perspective were my custody sergeants. If you don’t think custody supervisors have a role in training and influencing newly minted deputies, I guess you were one of those who bypassed custody all together.
Cushy custody job. Where have you been. The job of a custody line sergeant has sucked since the DOJ, ACLU and other lawsuits have been running their course. Patrol has been sparred much of the scrutiny and “you shalls.”
And how does one promote today? Sheriff says one thing but the process conflicts with what AV says. Yet they move forward with that process announcing a Custody Track Sgt test.
So AV has created so much confusion no one knows what to do to advance. Some think they need to step back and demote so they can move forward but that process does not exist either.
Maybe it’s coming or maybe is just BS.
I’m sure you live in WEHO
…you two are roommates or something?
Was the present elected sheriff a deputy prior? He doesn’t seem to garner much support from the troops. Is the lack of leadership the major problem? FTO’s having probs with new trainees? Ex cop now teacher from Tulare County
With My Own Eyes……I have to tell you.. ..After reading your post I’m wondering three things.
1. Was your spelling, grammar and punctuation that atrocious when you were on patrol training?
2. If so, how in the holy hell did you get off patrol training?
3. As a custody sergeant, how can you possibly be approving reports when you can’t even write one to a minimally acceptable level?
Nothing personal. Congratulations on your advanced degree and multitude of life experiences. Maybe you just had a bad couple minutes while writing that post. We all deserve a mulligan. I’ll cut you a break and chalk it up to that. There’s an easy solution.
PROOFREAD and EDIT.
If you don’t, or can’t……Please realize you leave yourself WIDE OPEN when you mention your advanced degree—-while at the same time presenting a post that would receive a failing grade in a high school English class.
Point taken. I’m guilty of being overly dependent on spell check and also not an expert at texting/typing on my phone. A final review before sending it on its way would have been good. Anyway, no issues in patrol and happy to say, none with respect to proof-reading and mentoring deputies and others I’m fortunate enough to supervise.
Of course, it’s too bad the content of my post was neglected, ignored and all that was taken from it was grammar and spelling mistakes.
Going after spelling and grammar is a chicken shit way of attempting to shame people rather than argue ideas. It is a sure sign of a small mind and a lack of imagination. Ya my spelling and grammar sucks, so what? The ideas get across.
FTO, why not dazzle us with some deep thoughts rather than trying to shut someone down over mistakes just about everyone makes? If you won’t or can’t ,why not keep your spell checking grammar fetish to yourself.
Your last paragraph hit the target in reference to the content of your post as the respondents representing the current culture that is still reminiscent in LASD. They overlook the fabric by keying in on pieces of lint.
WMOE,
The content of your post was not neglected. I tell every deputy I have ever trained—-There will be many in the food chain who know nothing about you other than your paper. They don’t know squat about you, your officer safety, attitude, effort, work ethic, dedication or (as you mentioned) education and like experience. They will only see your paper. Take pride in your paper.
You have obviously tightened your shit up. Mission accomplished on my part. Job well done on your part.
@Kong, I agree with your post to FTO.
@FTO. Your cockiness precedes you in addressing WMOE.
Delivery of communication, be it verbal or written is essential in order to effectively get one’s point across.
Easy cowboy… Corrupt?
Sounds like you were that custody dep who was scared to push a car. Or better yet, was rolled up because patrol training was “too hard” and people said “mean” things to you. Todays deputies are what’s breaking the tradition down and creating tore up partners. If you cant take it, go elsewhere. The L.A Couty Sheriff’s department has long been the model agency for superior training and developing the best street cops. You young liberal millenials are pathetic. Want everything handled to you and dont wanna work for crap. Lazy bastards.
@ FTO, By the way, your grade is an F, meaning failed. My advice to you is a do-over for Verbal Judo 101.
Problem with training is the training officers. They set the tone. They don’t have enough experience and a lot think they know it all. Having been a training officer, I can tell you that I learned from all my trainees. Covered position testing didn’t us any favors. Allowing someone to become a brand new training officer at a new station is a joke. They barely know where the bathroom is. The station captain should be allowed to pick their training officers. The system may not be perfect but it’s better than the coveted testing.
Being intimately involved with the facts of the case, Mandoyan did what they say he did. Civil service gives most everyone their jobs back or reduces their discipline.
Villanueva should speak out and explain why he rehired him. Is it because Mandoyan wouldn’t have been fired under old disciplinary guidelines and only gotten some days off? We won’t know until Villanueva speaks out, which he will never do.
Recruitment is not just bad for LASD, but for all law enforcement in general. LASD hasn’t, and isn’t, doing itself any favors with their past and the way the new Sheriff is starting. However, not many people want to become a cop and deal with the negative press, communities that don’t like/back you, second guessing, etc. The state doesn’t help either with stupid laws. Can you say SACR?
A lot of us are waiting to hear how Mandoyan just walked his way back into the Department. The department will never find out I’m sure. I just hope AV has those files on his desk by now.
Bad ass deputy haters
No don’t bring the bad apples back av. Looks like he just got checked by the la county commitioners today.
Yup looks like a one termer sheriff. Call the feds and let them know what av is doing
Interesting post with validity.
WMOE, I took no exception, nor disagreed with the content of your post. I too have seen young, good-hearted, eager to learn deputies who had TO’s more interested in establishing their superiority over the trainee than teaching and mentoring him or her. Those situations SHOULD be rectified by the training staff, although that’s rarely the case. It is disheartening and frustrating to say the least. In short, I agree with the content of your post. Had I disagreed, I would have said so.
Sad State of Affairs,
Wooshaa! I appreciate your input oh yessiree I do. Thank you very much sir I’ll keep your opinion and advice in my mind.
Kong,
“My spelling and grammar sucks, so what?”. That sums it up I guess. I’m interpreting that statement to mean that your position is that extreme accuracy, as to spelling, grammar and punctuation isn’t necessary.
I think there are a few instances where it is of paramount importance. I’ll give you an example.
There is a BIG difference between “helping your uncle jack off a horse”…and “helping you Uncle Jack off a horse”.
Kind of important in that sentence to be precise, no?
(That wasn’t sarcasm…it was an attempt at humor).
Let’s all get the knots out of our chonies.
To “Carl Mandoyan is Guilty.” This is what AV said in the LA Times:
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-villanueva-commission-20190122-story.html
LOL, yes please, tell the feds we have a sheriff doing the job he was elected to do, the horrors!
So, we may never “know” the reason, but we might be able to make an informed guess, based on some interesting information.
This whole thing struck me as something our beloved former undersheriff might have pulled off, which got me to thinking about campaign donations.
Sooo… a quick look at the required public disclosures (remember those extensive lists WLA published way back, and all the interesting names contained in there?) revealed something pretty interesting.
In September of 2018, on the same date, we have matching maximum contributions of $1500 from two individuals with the last name of “Mandoyan”, for a grand total of $3000 to the sheriff’s campaign funds. That’s a chunk of change (there’s some other interesting names to be found, not a few of which have benefitted from recent promotions, from what I hear, but let’s stay on track).
Now, I know what you’re thinking. Is “Carl” Mandoyan, listed? No. But a quick google search shows that those two names are connected to Carl. The websites that show this typically use property and registration info to make those connections. If I still had access to Palantir (retired now, so unfortunately can’t get deeper into this) I’m guessing I would find a family connection here. It it’s not like this is a particularly common name, is it?
Now, why would a couple family members make a contribution of that magnitude to the sheriff’s campaign? Did they really feel so strongly that he should be elected (there are current and former Department members who gave less. And quite a few gave the same amount – again, max contribution). So, if this was on Carl’s behalf, why didn’t he do it in his own name? Was there some connection he was worried about being made down the road? Some conclusion he was worried would be drawn if he made a max contribution and then was done a massive favor, like say, given back his job in a manner and timeframe that has never occurred before in the history of this department? All within a few months of making that contribution?
Which is really the explanation the sheriff needs to be making. Why this civil service reversal, and why so fast? There wasn’t any kind of conversation that occurred either near the time of this contribution, or after, was there? Did you know about this contribution? Did you feel grateful to the individual who made it, or caused it to be made on their behalf? If so, were you really the best person to make the decision about whether this termination should have been overturned? I know, I know, it was a panel that recommended the reinstatement. But you had the final say, right? And that “panel” that reviewed this reinstatement, who was on it? Commanders and a chief, according to your statement to the Times? Any of your recent promotees? Were any of them the promotees who were promoted multiple ranks? Did you decide which individuals would review that case, and did they know you had a personal interest in the subject? Did this have any effect on their decision-making?
These are questions that need to be answered. You don’t get to hide behind statements that you reversed this termination because we only rely on “facts that are established in a court of law”, since this has NEVER been the standard for termination of a deputy. Terminations are based on department investigations, made by the department execs and signed off by the sheriff, and sustained (as in this case) or overturned, in a civil service hearing, not a court of law. You know this, right? Are you proposing to reverse all the terminations that were not established “in a court of law?” And if not, are you prepared to explain why this case, and not the others?
A final thought occurs to me, I seem to recall an article a while back about the DA’s office looking at potential “straw” or “sham” donations, made on behalf of the sheriff. I wonder if this one (or two) is something that would peak their interest. Was it really the person making the donation that felt compelled to give such a large sum to this sheriff, or was it someone else making it entirely? Why the misdirection?
RIght on the money that training begins with TO’s. I learned from every deputy I ever worked with. I’ve learned from every supervisor I ever worked for. The vast majority of what I’ve learned is positive things from awesome people. People who’s heart and mind are in the right place, wanting to do the right thing. They want to make a difference.
Then there are a few who are here for the paycheck. There are also a few who’s egos get in the way of them being more effective. I’ve seen this from cops at every level. Believe it or not, I’ve had a couple of trainees who’s egos hampered their learning.
But alas, that is true of ANY profession, ANY place.
Coveted testing was the worst policy McDonnel implemented. It has diminished our effectiveness as an organization and lowered morale significantly.
@the past why does anyone owe you an explanation on anything? Whether you approve or not doesn’t matter. Mind your own business and move on. Maybe it’s on a need to know basis and you don’t need to know!
@Mark Johnson…..Sounds Fishy To Me, But Brings up a few good arguments for those relieved of duty. There’s a lot of deputies sitting at home stressing for less charges/violations than Mandoyan was fired for. Some individuals have even been fighting cases longer than Mondoyan. To those of you who are fighting to get back, stay strong, stay busy, stay focused and keep fighting.
Hey FTO, Glad to see that you don’t walk on water as you misspelled McDonnel which actually is McDonnell.
Just an FYI, not mockery and yes, you are welcome.
@Mark Johnson, sorry, but you don’t make sense and sound like a sore loser from the political establishment of the Jim McDonnell team. Probably his campaign manager.. Hahaha… Move on and accept your defeat. I know it’s hard to have a minority beat your plantation owner. We’re over this and any more news on Carl’s reinstatement. We’re glad he’s back and can’t wait to see those who wrongfully terminated get their day or reconining.
Find a new subject to cry about.
A bit off topic but going back to patrol training, it should absolutely be a stressful environment in which a trainees feet get held to the fire. I’ve had and seen trainees who were not ready or not cut out for it leave or be forced to leave because they simply weren’t ready, lacked common sense or both. I know Police Officers who work for smaller departments who complain about their trainees coasting off training and doing absolutely nothing after they are off probation. To be absolutely clear, I am not talking about stupid hazing like not eating or sleeping in their vehicle for two hours before coming back.
Never attempt to silence someone when the hard questions are asked. Mr Johnson does have valid points and masking an issue only exacerbates the problem.
OK, mark Johnson, I mean Raibow Bob…. Hahahaha… You’re the only one following an old thread and changing your screen names..
@ Sour Grapes:
Be it Mark Johnson, Rainbow Rob or Bozo, the post by Rainbow Bob is on target. I’m sure that many readers will agree regardless if they comment or not.
So let me get this straight, Factoid, Mark J and whatever other names you’re going to utilize going forward. You want to scrutinize a $3000.00 contribution of AV’s $120k he raised as apposed to the $1.2 million McDonnell raised.
Additionally, I just skimmed over the contribution list from AV’s campaign and discovered several other deputies, Sergeants and their families who also contributed the same amount or more, but you seem to want to focus on Carl’s.
I can’t help but to think that your issue is more personal with Carl than anything else.
In my and majority of the departments eyes, Carl should be carried on every Deputy’s shoulders and should never be allowed to step foot on the ground for having the courage, loyalty and dedication it took to back AV and help him beat your McDonnell and save our department from the obvious destruction and demise that would have occurred had Mcdummy won the election.
Instead of praising the guy, you want to demonize him for displaying a rare mellenial trait called LOYALTY to AV. You sir/ma’am are a complete hater and a jealous individual.
As far as his case goes, rumors are circulating that it was a complete hose job and he was terminated behind an unsubstantiated, fruitless and evidence less allegations. Why don’t we write a 49 and alledge something stupid against you and have you take the hit just because something was alledged. You obviously are not or ever been a cop before and have no concept of the law.
You continue to show your sour allegiance to McDonnell over and over and just can’t accept the fact that he lost his ass in an embarrassing fashion to someone no one thought would ever win.
Finally, now that the rumors are true, what are going to say when the individuals attached to his case get criminally charged and terminated. Read his lawsuit that’s online and educate yourself for once, before throwing stones at someone who doesn’t deserve it.
If there is any misconduct in regards to a deputy being wrongfully discharged all those involved should be sued and fired.
I need not a commentary to mirror yours based upon my neutrality on aforementioned subjects, just an advocate for hearing what others have to say. Everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion, period. To silence or mock them is akin to intimidating a witness.
Personally, you should save your tough talk for gangsters that you may confront while on duty.
@Street Cop, Ha, think you have just earned a Villanueva-cum-Tanaka coin. Welcome to the club! The charge of the Light Brigade, ……into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred.
@Sour Grapes
“In my and majority of the departments eyes, Carl should be carried on every Deputy’s shoulders and should never be allowed to step foot on the ground for having the courage, loyalty and dedication it took to back AV and help him beat your McDonnell and save our department from the obvious destruction and demise that would have occurred had Mcdummy won the election. ”
Are you kidding me with this statement. Courage and loyalty to back Villanueva? Wow, okay. He was knee deep in the Lindsey campaign and when Lindsey lost the primary switched. That’s loyalty? Too me sounds like, loyalty towards himself and getting his job back.
I think your missing the point. I don’t care and I don’t think most people care that Carl got his job back. But what happened to Carl was self inflicted, and by that I mean off-duty and nothing to with work. There are a lot of deputies that got railroaded under Mcdonnell (with Carl possibly being one of them) but the other deputies got railroaded for work related matters in which the last administration leveled everyone for stupid stuff.
Villanueva wants to look at Carl’s case and overturn it, I say great. But there are a lot of other people that should have been looked at first. And it does look funny that Carl helps on the campaign, donates money and his case is the first case looked at.
Exactly!
Agreed,
@ Clam Chowder – Your 2nd paragraph pretty much blew cheerleader “Sour Grapes” off the boat into the sea of reality and yes, you’re correct with other deputies with “lighter” cases who should be first in line for reversals.
@clam chowder and @And 1,
Good points, however, your comment on, “When Lindsey lost, he switched.” What should he have done? Stayed and wiped Lindsey’s tears? Stayed and allowed McDonnell to pursue and win the election? Lindsey lost. That was the end of Lindsey. Not sure what else he could have done after the primary.
The fact that he chose to stay in the fight and backed one of our own while still suing the department for the crimes they committed against him, you want to question his loyalty? Carl is very highly regarded and respected by his peers and many others for doing what he did. His loyalty was not only for AV, but it was also for his partners.
I appreciate your civility for not trying to bash him (God knows the kid has been through hell) , but I don’t know what his other options were, other than to back AV and see the race through to it’s conclusion. Much respect for him and for AV for watching his six. Loyalty such as this is why AV has earned my respect.
Instead of focusing on the negative, let’s rejoice and bask in the glow of how our department’s morale has shot through the ceiling and continues to climb on a daily basis.
With best regards.
Does anyone have information regarding the reinstatement/reconciliation process and how far back time wise, will one be considered?
I know two solid deputies who were railroaded and lost their jobs for what would be minor if we use the Mondayan chart and for the record, ALADS didn’t do squat.
If anyone could provide contact information, that would be great.
Apparently the Board of Supervisors wants a explanation from the Sheriff concerning Carl Mandoyan, should be interesting.
There’s nothing solid in place right now outside of civil service and I believe AV said that he is looking at cases from the last 5 years.
Copy that.
No, Carl was not a good street cop. He was a corrupt street cop. Caught lying on reports he just went for low hanging fruit. He was the mascot of Lennox when he was a reserve deputy. He had money and connections. Only hired as full-time after he did work (and paid money) to Baca-Tanaka.