EDITOR’S NOTE: I was glad to see the LA Times’ analysis of teacher performance published Sunday morning (led by Times education writers Jason Felch and Jason Song), and was deeply annoyed by the angry posturing and threats from UTLA prez, A.J. Duffy in response to it.
But, as Monday wore on, I heard from an increasing number of teachers who objected to the Times’ methodology in a big way, and were particularly horrified when one of the low-rated teachers was pictured in the article as he taught.
Among the angry educators I heard from was my friend, novelist/teacher and WitnessLA contributor, Dennis Danziger—whose opinion I respect a great deal (even if we occasionally disagree on a few of the finer points of school reform—and school reformers).
Danziger’s point of view on the Times’ analysis seems to be representative of that of a lot of devoted teachers, thus is important to hear. After all, these are the talented men and women in the trenches with LA’s kids. In other words, they are the experts.
Okay, here’s Dennis (and he’s pretty mad at his hometown newspaper):
The LA Times Blame Game
by Dennis Danziger
Ahh, the LA Times, a newspaper that for the past few decades keeps losing readership, firing staff and being fumbled from one ineffective owner to another has found a group to look down upon: incompetent public school teachers.
And who better to point out failure than a newspaper whose readership is about half of what it was in the 1990s? Who better to examine the LAUSD’s failures than The Times whose parent company filed for bankruptcy in 2008 when they were carrying a debt load in the billions?
The Times knows failure. And with those credentials why not believe them when they jump on the President Obama, Secretary Duncan, Mayor Villaraigosa bandwagon and simplify the failure of America’s public school crisis to this: it’s all the fault of bad teachers.
It’s not class size. It’s not the economy. It’s not hunger. Or broken homes. Or kids who come to school from foster homes. Or kids who barely come to school at all. It’s not living in violent neighborhoods. It’s not screwed up parents. It’s not limousine liberals, religious fanatics, wacko home schooling parents, and your every day racists who bailed out of the public schools decades ago. No. It’s none of that. It’s all about those bad LAUSD teachers and their oh-so-powerful unions who protect the rotten apples among them.
I’m an LAUSD teacher, an 18-year veteran, and I want The Times to know that they can count me in when it comes to hiring energetic young teachers and booting out the old, ineffective ones.
I’m all for streamlining the firing process to rid our classrooms of crummy teachers.
I’m all for rewarding tenure after seven years instead of two.
I’d even support our mayor taking over not just a handful of schools but every school in the District.
Heck, I’m even for merit pay.
There’s just one thing I want to know, and that is this:
What system would The Times and our educational reformers use to prove which teachers make the grade and which don’t?
A standardized test and nothing else? That seems to be their sole measurement.
And, honestly, that’s what worries me.
Let’s use me as an example.
For 14 years, from 1995 – 2008, I taught English at Palisades Charter High School; in those years it was an LAUSD school. This past June I attended PCHS’ graduation where I saw many of my former 10th grade honors English students cross the stage. Those kids, come fall, will be attending Wellesley, Vassar, Sarah Lawrence, Kenyon, University of Michigan, University of Wisconsin (two on full academic scholarships), USC (a full academic scholarship), Wake Forest, Tufts, UCLA and UC-Berkeley.
Trust me, these kids are bright and know how to bubble in the correct answers. I’ve seen them do it.
One week earlier I attended graduation at Venice High School where I have been teaching for the past two years. Of the 87 students crammed into my two classes of senior English this past semester, 29 did not graduate because they just quit coming to my class; another nine didn’t graduate because they didn’t do enough work.
Of these 87 kids, 38 didn’t graduate, and few of these kids test nearly so well on standardized tests as did my former students. I’m pretty sure at least part of the reason is because some of my students at Venice HS and their parents do not consider regular attendance in school a high priority.
But here’s what I need to know from The Times and their education reformer consultants:
Am I a brilliant teacher who inspired and shepherded my students into some of our nation’s most prestigious colleges?
Or am I a lug, deadwood, a card-carrying AARP and UTLA member whose teaching style is so ineffective my students drop out by the busload?
Oh yeah, there is this: Last May, within a three-day period, one of my current students at Venice High won a prestigious city wide creative writing contest and a $1,000 college scholarship; while two of my former VHS students were sentenced to jail. One convicted of armed robbery (13 years) and another for attempted murder (22 years).
So what is it, LA Times? I’m dying to know if I’m in line to be lauded and receive merit pay or if I’m the next guy whose picture will be featured on your front page with the word: INCOMPETENT emblazoned beneath my photo.
Plainly you’re not being the same teacher to all of your students. I would suggest you try ALL the time with ALL of your students.
You nailed it!!! There is a place for this data to be used but it doesn’t serve anyone’s interest for it to be shared in this way. I guess every public employees “evaluations” should be shared with the public.
Well, Dennis, you’re just going to have to wait to see if you are a hero or a zero. The Times will release the SINGLE NUMBER that will tell the city and the world EXACTLY HOW GOOD OR BAD YOU ARE in a month or so, because you are a high school teacher and they haven’t run those numbers yet.
But why wait? You can do the computation that will reveal your EXACT WORTH as a teacher youself. Here’s the formula the Times used, pasted from their PDF:
it it 1 it 1 i j i j it T T +x u q λ β η ραφ − = + + + + ε +
Oops. The formula has a bunch of little numbers and letters it in, and the formatting is unsupported by this comments section. But you read HTML, right? So just work backwards to derive the formula, plug in your numbers, and GO.
Peter….amazing you would make a comment like that. You’ve never sat in Dennis Danziger’s classroom….and you’ve never had a child who’s studied with him. Easy for you to make a comment like that..have you ever taught in LAUSD? Have you ever sat in a classroom or tried to help within the community. So easy for you to criticize when you haven’t the experience many of us have. I spent 20 years volunteering in the schools and 11 years teaching. You have no clue what it’s like.
LA TImes…you blew it big time. YOU sit in a classroom day after day after day…and then talk about the teacher. The PARENTS have to be held accountable from day one…the moment they decide to bring a child into this world….the child who comes into the classroom with behavior problems, did not learn that at school….the child who comes into the classroom hungry did not learn that at school….you see where I”m going here…and yet you expect the teacher to fix that and teach?
Yes, there are plenty of teachers who are ineffective but there are plenty of teachers who inspire. Everything in life now is based on numbers and not through observations and common sense. That’s a sorry state….
Peter,
Plainly, you have no idea what you’re talking about. I have had Dennis Danziger as a teacher, we have a strong relationship to this day. What you’re missing is this: the Venice high students who are in jail ARE among his favorites. I can attest to the fact that Dennis treats all his students with a sense of respect and a complete belief in their abilities. Even the most compitent teachers CANT reach every student for reasons having nothing to do with their commitment. The dialogue we need to begin is about GIVING teachers the tools they need and changing our attitude (as a society) towards the educational system. What we don’t need is pedantic uninformed advice.
Yours,
Jeremy
I’ve worked for a different school district in the L.A. area with many competent, qualified teachers. I also know several very competent teachers who teach for the LAUSD. The measure of a successful student is how hard the student is willing to work and how dilligently the parents enforce the value of education. Teachers can only do so much. They are on the front lines every day. Dennis, I commend you for the work you do. I am back in Wisconsin trying to go back to school to become a teacher like you. Keep up the good work.
I have many friends who teach. From hearing their stories of disengaged parents, administrators who can’t lead and students so troubled by outside-the-school problems (abuse, gangs, divorces, poverty), I know that the failures in our schools are never single-cause situations.
However, of the teacher reactions I’ve seen to the LATimes story there seems to be a disconnect between what the story actually said and what they perceive.
Quoting the story:
The respected National Academy of Sciences weighed in last October, saying the approach was promising but should not be used in “high stakes” decisions — firing teachers, for instance — without more study.
No one suggests using value-added analysis as the sole measure of a teacher. Many experts recommend that it count for half or less of a teacher’s overall evaluation.
The LAT is NOT saying that standardized test scores should be the sole determining factor in evaluating teachers. In fact, this article wouldn’t take “a stand” on that since it isn’t a column or an editorial.
[…] story there seems to be a disconnect between what the story actually said and what they perceive. In this post on WitnessLA Venice HS teacher Dennis Danziger, who seems very intelligent about education and writes that he even endorses merit pay, says: What […]
Great article, Dennis. I teach at Venice High School as well and can tell you that I give 200% of myself from September to June… which leaves me in an exhausted heap to “enjoy” my summer break, and probably not the mom I should be to my own two teenage daughters. And I can tell you this: Good and bad students are already who they are by ninth grade, and possible a lot earlier. Unfortunately, very little changes over that nine months they spend with me, no matter what percentage I give. Tanya is right; good students are the product of a good family who values education, and families who have time to do that, well, they usually have a bit of money as well. Drive around and notice which neighborhoods have banners outside their schools bragging about their API scores… it’s not those in South Central, anyone can plainly see.
In Vietnam, if a child doesn’t do his homework, he doesn’t eat dinner. If he gets bad grades, he can’t come home until his grades improve. American culture is all about getting what you want without working for it… and making fun of teachers, too. Watch an episode of Fox youth programming, and the accompanying commercials, if you have any doubts. We the teachers are alone in those classrooms, trying to teach and convince kids at the same time that getting educated is important. It’s about time our society support us.
On that note, an increase in taxes (or in state revenue, if you want to use positive wording) is clearly needed to help our ailing schools. LAUSD kids got cheated out of 2 weeks of school this year due to budget cuts… now that’s a crime. (No, I don’t need a 12-week summer, but thanks, anyway!) I think the LA Times is just doing what they think their readers want them to do, which is to blame someone or something else for the problem. No one wants to shell out more cash if there is anyway to avoid it; that’s human nature. So if we all blame teachers for our failing students, the finger is no longer pointing at ourselves. Whew!
LA Times, shame on you for not being an insightful leader and doing what is right, and not what you think will sell the most copies!
-Reina
ps I am all for evaluations of teachers as well, no problem… evaluate away!
“wacko home schooling parents” he lists among the REAL causes and loses me right there. Talk about bigotry and prejudice.
YES more and more parents are homeschooling of virtual schooling, the biggest runaway trend – even LAUSD is getting on the bandwagon but for limited grades in high school only. They’re doing it not because they’re “wackos” by which he may mean religious fundamentalists (?) but thanks to the other things HE says are really responsible: huge class sizes, kids who come to school still unable to meet English fluency requirements after years in public school, who come to school from violent neighborhoods and bring that attitude with them, the fact that 3/4 of LAUSD kids are below the poverty line and because of “limousine liberals” who don’t send their kids to the local schools while ALSO railing against “wacko homeschooling parents” and those who dare point out that the schools went downhill after forced busing (which has in some cases been reversed, but patterns have stuck), because while they praise “diversity” don’t really want to send their own kids to schools where they’re a minority racially and socio-economically… But denounce all homeschoolers as “wackos” who because their kids didn’t thrive in public schools (OR are athletes, actors, etc.).
Maybe the real reason teachers like him hate homeschoolers is because each kid lost to the LAUSD is lost revenue: the same reason UTLA/ LAUSD has forced the shut-down of charters like West Valley Something (you wrote about it here among others as highly successful with kids who’d have otherwise dropped out) and numerous others, and fights charters tooth and nail in general. Maybe that’s the real reason LAUSD is starting its own virtual charter, to keep some per-student money in the district, instead of it going to private providers like the Kaplan Prep Company/ K-12…
Much as I respect what many teachers do in LAUSD, and while I think it’s arguably an invasion of privacy and desperate ratings ploy on behalf of a newspaper whose editorial opinions I’ve come to find self-serving and often reactionary, and much as I have sympathy for teachers so profiled and hurt professionally AND who lose face to their own students as a result, I think the UTLA’s stance clearly comes down to just trying to keep more student bodies in the district no matter what for the revenue they add. It’s NOT about the students at all.
The problems in the schools reflects a tendency in american culture to seperate things that are obviously not seperate. In this case school and home. I taught special ed for six years and have been a psychotherapist for 32 years and I consider psychotherapy as a learning process so I am still a teacher in a sense. Developementally our homelife is our foundation, the first three years being the most important. If that foundation is cracked life, in general, is an uphill battle. Frankly I don’t see schools as being equiped or informed enough to overcome some of the issues these inner city kids have. We continue to fool ourselves if we believe these problems can be resolved without home intervention. I would love to see the LA Times address the issue from that standpoint rather than the same old timeless flotsam of “good teacher, bad teacher”.
“I’m all for streamlining the firing process to rid our classrooms of crummy teachers.
I’m all for rewarding tenure after seven years instead of two.
I’d even support our mayor taking over not just a handful of schools but every school in the District.
Heck, I’m even for merit pay.”
I’m one of those reformer types and your post is another piece of evidence that says we CAN find solutions together. Reformers are infuriated with those like AJ Duffy who offer lip service to change and then say NO to EVERYTHING. Meanwhile teachers can’t stand the inveterate test-score floggers and the rhetoric that implies that bad teachers are everywhere and bad because they don’t try. I believe that we have oodles of people here with good intentions and good ideas and if we can sack the Duffy’s, ignore the LA Times, and find some money to get shit started right, we can make improvements that will be amenable to teachers and reform groups.
For others interested in a very quick and dirty look at what teachers think about education policy, check this out: http://www.publicagenda.org/pages/new-analysis-suggests-teachers-voices-do-not-have-a-strong-influence-policy-agenda
Mike, I noticed the same thing and think you are correct but the tone of the article (and the picture!) and the willingness to publish names seem to confirm that while we SAY test scores aren’t everything, we are going to treat them like they are. Data is seductive.
Wow. People took what I said seriously? Sorry, folks. I was being sarcastic. I know Dennis, and I know there couldn’t be a better teacher in the world. And that’s from one teacher to another.
The LA Times is just blaming it on whoever is most vulnerable. I’ve had several teachers at Venice High School who went out of their way to encourage all their students to really explore and fulfill their full potential. The reason many students don’t succeed is because of elements and influences outside of school, NOT because of teachers.
This thread very eloquently describes the myriad of problems facing the LAUSD. They are indeed extensive.
What’s absolutlely amazing is that Mr. Danziger so cavalierly labels parents whom choose not to send their kids into the midst of these problems “wackos”.
Sterotypical generalization.
Liberals are labeled “limousine” while religious people are “fanatics” and parents who home school are “wacko”.
How intolerant of certain belief systems.
Mr. Danziger may very well be an outstanding teacher. He could however use another in-service day of sensitivity/diversity training.
Here’s to all the Duffy naysayers: AJ Duffy is not against reform and fights tirelessly for your income, rights, and benefits. UTLA will never support privatizing…Our contract is as good as it gets. Dennis, fab job!
Our contract is as good as it gets
If an oil company executive said that would he/she be labeled as greedy?
…”but what would be the answer to the answer man”…
Think you’d need to ask the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) executives first, about their contracts and why solar panel are not allowed on LAUSD buildings or why they have not converted to energy efficient lighting or even if they are going to support SB 1413, “Access to Free Fresh Drinking Water in Schools” … Meanwhile, if you’re really concerned along with other Angelenos about climate change and moving beyond oil and coal, etc. the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) is holding six more CRUCIAL workshops: http://lapowerplan.org/registrations/new. Also, sierraclub.org to get some useful facts.
The again, you could just simply get some sleep while the rest of us work tirelessly…
It must be awfully uncomfortable for you up on your cross.
Thank you, Dennis Danziger for stating what worries you and other teachers, like myself. As for Mike and his “value-added analysis” counting for only half a teacher’s evaluation, I would ask how Corporate has Education become? And why? Are we really running a business here?Stephen Krashen, at USC, has shown time and time again through his research how Poverty affects learning. He has advocated, for example, for more funding for public libraries and less for standardized tests. In the meantime, tuition at community colleges, state schools and private colleges continues to rise. Yeah, there are good teachers and lesser ones, just like in every field. That would include, of course, the people who run this country and sell us the illusion that they really care about the people they serve. Cynical? Sorry, just tired of all the “experts” on education.
It’s depressing what’s happened to this country. Everyone used to be pro union, now it’s a bunch of people like Answering the Question running around. Lap dogs for the rich. Just sad.
Lap dog for the rich? Oh, ok, got it Sonny. Maybe you’re right. Maybe unions are the answer to our problems. I mean after all, look how well it’s worked for all of us and GM. Come to think of it, now that the unions have more power than ever and are in bed with politicians I have noticed how things are definitely getting better.
Yep. Unions are the answer to our problems.
BTW Sonny, I belong to a union, because I have to. Closed shop. I have to pay those union dues whether I like it or not. Now that’s what I call freedom of choice.
Ever wonder why if the unions are the best thing going, why is it the first thing they do is try to make it mandatory?
If it was such a good deal why do they need to make it mandatory?
Wake up buddy. Unions have become about political power for politicians. Unions have become the very thing they were against back in the day.
You poor thing, ATQ. You have to pay union dues and get a living wage, medical care, and retirement. It just makes you cringe, I know.
ATQ says: Now that’s what I call freedom of choice.
Exactly! It means if you don’t like your Union, quit your job and go to a right-to-work state. They have all the 0pen-shops you could ever imagine. But just don’t sit there and whine.
I never knew Encounter Books was a union shop, anyway….
quit your job and go to a right-to-work state.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why would I a make a foolish move like that? Ever heard of EFCA? Do you know what’s happening all around the country due to the unions influence? Pretty soon there won’t be any “Right To Work” states. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Or, you could just sit back and continue being a hack for the union leaders who are in bed with crooked politicians.
It’s all good with our wages and benefits, UNTIL the climate becomes so one sided that’s it’s no longer profitable for the business to remain operating.
You see, we can tell a business that they MUST pay union wages, but we can’t tell them that they MUST remain open.
Now go ahead and bitch about outsourcing.
You seem to reject the FACT that businesses operate for one purpose and one purpose only, to make money. If they no longer make money for their greedy owners, they quit operating. Well, that or they go offshore where they can still operate at a profit.
Oh, but alas, there’s always the government bailout. Then it becomes nothing more than a hostile takeover by the feds. because “it’s too big to fail”. Then the President and politicians decide who the CEO is, sits on the BOD, etc.
In the end, we all become government workers. That might be your idea of a utopia. It’s not mine. Check out the standard of living where this is the case. It’s not real high.
Before you put all the steretypical labels on me, right-winger, yada yada yada, let me ask you this.
Are you going to but stock in GM?
lol. That’s what I thought.
stereOtypical labels……buy stock……
Never was a good typist.
ATQ is clinically depressed from being in a union. He’s seeking help. He’s telling his therapist that he just can’t handle the living wage and benefits. The thought of it just kills him. He doesn’t deserve it. He wants minimum wage and no health coverage. It’s only right. Good wages and benefits are just weak, man, and he’s not weak. They’re trying him on prozac first.
“Good wages and benefits are just weak, man, and he’s not weak”.
With my tongue firmly planted in my cheek:
Sonny, it sounds like you are suffering from “the poverty of ambition”. You sound like all the greedy corporate CEO’s. All you give a shit about is the money in your pocket and the benefits you receive.
The question for the day is this:
Is that more ironic or hypocritical?
lol. The personal attacks do nothing to address the points. It shows a lack of intellectualism on your part. When you can’t debate with logic because you don’t have the mental capacity, personal attacks are the only thing left.
It’s akin to saying: “Yeah well, fuck you”.
It doesn’t score you any points with any observer with a triple digit I.Q.
It makes you look like the ass you are.
yeh, people who want just enough to live on are the same as corporate CEOs, who want their own private jets. You really know what time it is, don’t you?
Got it Sonny. What we need to do is cap all the CEO’s salaries. They make way too much money while the rest of us barely get by.
And let’s cap the salaries of athletes and entertainers too because they also live extravagantly.
WAIT…FOUL…NO WAY…THAT’S DIFFERENT!!!!!!!
You’re either for Capitalism or you aren’t Sonny.
Your lack of intellectual honesty is only surpassed by your arrogance and hypocrisy.
[…] WitnessLA.com » Blog Archive » A Teacher’s View of the LA Times’ Educators Analysis Filed under: education — coopmike48 @ 8:37 am WitnessLA.com » Blog Archive » A Teacher’s View of the LA Times’ Educators Analysis. […]
[…] A Teacher’s View of the LA Times’ Educators Analysis comes from Witness LA. […]
[…] the LA Times publication of so-called value added assessments and teacher names, there is this from Dennis Danziger, an 18 year veteran teacher in the […]
[…] the LA Times publication of so-called value added assessments and teacher names, there is this from Dennis Danziger, an 18 year veteran teacher in the […]
ATQ Says: Why would I a make a foolish move like that?
Well you’re the one bitching about being forced to join a union so I just offered an alternative- work non-union in whatever field your in. Simple isn’t? And you’ll be a lot happier.
ATQ Says: Pretty soon there won’t be any “Right To Work” states. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Huh? That’s a uninformed comment. Unions at their peak comprised about 30% of the workforce. Now it’s in the single digits. They’re losing influence not gaining. What time zone are you buddy?
We are losing members but gaining in political clout.
Come on man, think about it. If our memberships are in the single digits, why is it that the EFCA keeps being introduced by politicians? Why do the politicians pander to the unions and vice versa?
I’m in the reality zone. You’re swallowing whatever bullshit they feed you, and when they tell you how good it tastes you just nod your little head and say: “yessir”.
Do your research on the EFCA and then get back to me. The legislation, better known as “card check” has been introduced and Obama is pushing hard for it. If it passes, the unions will gain more control.
[…] great post is A Teacher’s View of the LA Times’ Educators Analysis and comes from Witness […]
Thanks for your comments, you voiced mine clearly!
Yo Peter,
Woah, sorry about that one brotha!
It’s hard to get satire in these comment forums… particularly when you’re used to the youtube level of discourse.
-J
I give 150%. I teach in south central. I love my students. I motivate. I question them. I make them question themselves. I love my job. I teach. I learn. I take the kids no one else wants and I love them.
I was rated least effective.
I am heart-broken, devastated, invalidated, and completely feel like my hard work was taken away in one moment.
Least effective. The label is over my head. I feel like everyone now thinks I’m a bad teacher– when all I’ve ever done is teach my children. They do make progress…but when they come to me at 2nd grade level, it is difficult to test them at 5th grade level. They raise about 30% in a year, but that’s not good enough.
I am embarrassed to go back to work. I am mortified that friends and colleagues looked up my name and saw my ‘grade’.
I just want to crawl into a hole. And die.