EDITOR’S NOTE:
The very last jails commission meeting is next Friday, September 7, 2012.
Then in early October, the commission will deliver its final report.
Thus as we head into the home stretch of what will have been a year-long process, we thought it might be beneficial to review some of what has come to light in the course of the commission’s investigations.
In this first such review, WLA’s Matt Fleischer looks long and hard at the substance and the meaning of the testimony given by Undersheriff Paul Tanaka, who appeared before the commission on July 27.
TRUTH, CONSEQUENCES & THE TESTIMONY OF PAUL TANAKA
by Matthew Fleischer
It’s been just over one month since Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department Sheriff Lee Baca and Undersheriff Paul Tanaka testified before the Los Angeles Commission on Jail Violence-—a blue ribbon panel charged with investigating the brutal and systemic deputy-on-inmate violence inside the county jails. Interestingly, it was the testimony of the notoriously media-shy Tanaka, not Baca, that was the most hotly anticipated.
In previous testimony by others before the commission, as well as in numerous reports in the media, Tanaka had been accused of failing to do anything to stop a culture of violence from growing and festering in the jails after he was reportedly warned verbally and in written reports about the growing crisis. Even worse, according some who testified, he had tacitly facilitated an anything-goes ethic among those working in Men’s Central Jail– breeching the chain-of-command to interfere when lesser-ranked supervisors attempted to hold out-of-control deputies accountable.
For instance, in September of 2011 WitnessLA reported that, in 2006, Tanaka unilaterally shut down a pivotal anti-force reform effort by then-Men’s Central Jail captain John Clark—a reform that was since enacted years later once news of the brutality inside the jails began to leak to the press. In the months that followed, we reported that Tanaka was widely rumored to be running a pay-to-play promotional scheme inside the sheriff’s department—in which LASD donors to his Gardena mayoral campaign were placed in key supervisory roles and other coveted positions, throughout the department, and most crucially in Men’s Central Jail (MCJ), in several cases, despite troubled managerial backgrounds. Prominent among those Tanaka-favored figures was Captain Dan Cruz, the highest-ranking member of the department put on leave for his role in failing to check the violence inside the jails, and allegedly in many instances appearing to sanction it.
The undersheriff had never publicly answered any of the accusations despite the repeated calls for accountability by social justice advocates and outraged LASD personnel.
At the commission, deputy general counsel Bert Deixler questioned Tanaka on these and other topics–including pinning the undersheriff down for encouraging deputies to work the “gray area” of law enforcement. Yet Deixler spent the most time trying to get Mr. Tanaka to explain his failure to contain, or even to address, the growing violence in MCJ.
In response to Deixler’s questions, Tanaka provided little of substance, falling back repeatedly on, “I don’t remember” and “I don’t recall” in response to even the most basic of inquiries by Deixler.
Tanaka’s testimony may not have provided the commission with the answers they were looking for, but it did provoke several significant questions: what did Tanaka know about force problems inside the jails and when did he know it? Did Tanaka lie throughout the commission hearing about his knowledge of the epidemic of force? Or was he bizarrely incurious about and irresponsibly unaware of the enormous problems that were facing the nation’s largest jail?
Thus far there is no smoking gun to provide an unassailable answer one way or the other, but there is a wealth of evidence compiled by WitnessLA, the jails commission and others that suggests his claim of ignorance is simply untrue. However the implication of his purported ignorance of force issues is nearly as profound.
TANAKA TESTIMONY, REDUX
Though he denied being aware of them at the time, when presented with document after document that outlined widespread instances of excessive force inside the jails and noted a pattern of clumsy attempts to cover-up that violence, Tanaka admitted to the commission that there were extensive problems with jail violence under his watch that should have been a “significant cause for concern.”
Yet while the undersheriff acknowledged that there were fundamental issues plaguing the jails during his tenure as assistant sheriff overseeing the department’s custody division (and in the three plus years directly after when he still frequently meddled in custody matters) he stuck to his mantra that he simply wasn’t aware of the problems until a flood of bad publicity, and the commission’s own work, brought the matter to his attention. According to Tanaka, his failings as manager were not that he ignored dire warnings and reports of excessive force inside the jails (as a preponderance of evidence and other testimony suggests) It was the staff beneath him who failed to adequately inform him or to handle the job on their own initiative. Had he only been informed of the problems, Tanaka claimed, he would have gone into action.
When Deixler asked Tanaka directly if he had any knowledge of deputy-on-inmate force problems inside the jail system during his tenure as assistant sheriff in charge of custody from 2005-2007, Tanaka flatly replied “No.”
Deixler followed up: “When you were assistant sheriff for custody, did you receive or request reports about problems with deputy cliques?”
“I did not receive any reports that there were problems with deputy cliques during that period of time,” Tanaka said.
Later, Deixler asked about the statements of retired LASD Commander Robert Olmsted, who oversaw the jails from 2008-2010, and whose testimony before the commission had been—prior to Baca and Tanaka—the most dramatic. Olmsted testified he told Tanaka directly in a 2010 meeting that “…force is out of control. There are issues that need to be addressed down there [in MCJ]” Tanaka listened stone-faced, then replied to Deixler, “That’s a fictional account of what occurred.”
It was a reaction that left many in the audience scratching their heads.
“It seems to me everybody buried their head in the sand in regard to this issue,” Commissioner Dickran M. Tevrizian Jr. told Tanaka. “It’s very hard for a rational person to understand this.”
Indeed, it was hard for us at WitnessLA to comprehend how Tanaka could have been unaware of high levels of force inside MCJ. From 2008 to 2010, custody supervisors generated no less than four internal reports, each intended to raise the alarm that there were serious and ongoing issues of excessive force inside the jail that were being inadequately reported and, in many instances, likely outright covered up:
Lieutenant Steve Smith compiled a force report in the fall of 2009, in which he noted that 42 deputy sheriffs had 10 or more uses of force over the last 24 months. (To put those numbers in perspective, it helps to know that, one week after Tanaka’s testimony, former commissioner of the New York City Department of Corrections Martin Horn testified that only three uses of force by an officer at Rikers Island Prison Complex would trigger an automatic interview with the warden of the facility.) In another report, Smith looked at the patterns that could be seen with the highest force users, and what might be done to address the problem. In 2009, Lieutenant Mark McCorkle analyzed 154 force reports from 2005 to 2009 and found a list of red flags—cases of “repeated blows to the heads” of inmates, “personnel not held accountable,” and “events dramatized to justify the outcome.” And in January of 2010, Captain Gregory Johnson wrote a report that analyzed force packages at MCJ, and how they were improperly investigated, often in a manner that appeared to be consciously designed to let deputies off the hook for misdeeds.
Robert Olmsted, who oversaw the jails as a commander from 2008-2010, said he explicitly told Tanaka about these reports when he met with Tanaka in 2010.
“You don’t get called into the Assistant Sheriff’s office too often,” Olmsted told WitnessLA. “When you do, it sticks.”
Olmsted said he was called into Tanaka’s office to discuss the contentious relationship that had developed between himself and then-MCJ Captain Dan Cruz—over Cruz’s unwillingness to seriously address the problem of force inside the jail. He said he came to the meeting armed with “a stack of documentation, three or four inches high” about excessive and unnecessary force under Cruz’s watch. According to Olmsted, a livid Tanaka countered, “I’m going to find out if you’re the problem or if Dan Cruz is the problem.”
Tanaka then sent then-Lieutenant Duane Harris into the jail to return with yet another report. Roughly two weeks later, Olmsted said, after Harris completed his report, Tanaka called the commander back in for another meeting, where he apologized to Olmsted and pinned the blame for the jail violence on Cruz.
In his own testimony, Tanaka admitted he called Olmsted into his office for both meetings—-but that force was never discussed. Instead, Tanaka claimed, the meeting was not about force, but instead about a pernicious “personality conflict” between Olmsted and Cruz. He said he did send Harris into MCJ to conduct a report, but force issues were never addressed in that discussion.
Other than the reports he said that he brought to the undersheriff (which Tanaka said he never received), Olmsted doesn’t have any documents proving he discussed the escalating force problems with Tanaka during their meetings. But he did provide WitnessLA with a 2010 email to then-Custody Chief Dennis Burns citing the desperate need to review excessive force issues inside Men’s Central Jail.
The email was sent during the time period that Harris was conducting his report on MCJ at Tanaka’s behest, and documents Olmsted’s contention that he had gone up the chain of command with his concerns regarding force. Thus, if Olmsted himself commissioned several reports about the violence in the jails, and was willing to share his concern, as well as the reports, with the Chief of the custody division, it becomes difficult to believe that he would have failed to mention those same concerns with Tanaka during a meeting Olmsted had expressly requested to discuss problems in Men’s Central Jail. More to the point, since Olmsted had a stack of documentation showing that Cruz had allowed violence inside the jail to escalated unchecked, why would he hide those documents from Harris—who was conducting an examination to determine whether Olmsted or Cruz was culpable for serious problems in the jail? And why would Harris then hide those findings from Tanaka?
In addition to the blockbuster commission testimony by Olmsted, there was the testimony of former MCJ Lieutenant Albert Gonzalez and Sergeant Dan Pollaro. Both testified before the jails commission that Tanaka told supervisors gathered for a 2006 meeting at MCJ, that they needed to “coddle deputies.” They also testified that Tanaka screamed at Gonzalez “How dare you call any deputy a gang member?”
Prior to the commission’s hearings, WitnessLA broke the news of this meeting in Part 4 of our Dangerous Jails series. We spoke with other supervisors who were in the room that day who confirmed Gonzalez and Pollaro’s account. They found Tanaka’s prohibition against referring to certain deputy behavior as gang-like particularly memorable because it seemed to deny the existence of problematic deputy cliques that were growing powerful inside the jails—cliques whose members were often responsible for more than their share of force incidents against inmates.
Tanaka, however, flat out said Gonzalez, Pollaro and our sources were lying. “You can bring them here, you can bring me here. You can put us on a lie box. You can ask me that question.”
PAUL TANAKA v. JOHN CLARK
The most troubling and difficult story to believe is Tanaka’s account of what happened in 2006, when he shut down an effort to stem the tide of violence in MCJ by the jail’s then-captain John Clark. Faced with growing piles of force reports littering his desk, Clark attempted to reduce violence in the jail by implementing a policy of assignment rotation.
“We had cases of force where there was either unnecessary or excessive force, or force that wasn’t reported,” Clark explained of his plan in a sworn 2012 deposition. “And that’s the kind of thing we were trying to address.”
Clark further testified that his supervisor Commander Dennis Conte and his supervisor Chief Sam Jones were aware of the plan and had approved it. Clark testified that Conte had made Tanaka fully aware of the plan and the rationale behind it.
In his testimony before the jails commission, however, Tanaka denied Clark’s sworn account.
“That’s not what was brought to my attention. What was brought to my attention is that there were a handful…of problem deputies with no specific indication or reason as to what the problem was.”
In other words, Tanaka says he spiked a plan approved at every level of the chain of command beneath him without inquiring why the plan was needed in the first place. Tanaka was aware of “problem deputies,” but never bothered to inquire what behavior made them problematic.
WitnessLA has obtained a copy of 2011 sworn deposition given by Tanaka where he discusses his decision to kill Clark’s assignment rotation plan. Interestingly, under oath, faced with potentially perjuring himself, Tanaka was far more cautious than he was before the jails commission.
Q. Did [Clark] indicate during this meeting that [deputies] were problematic because of their use of force?
Tanaka: I don’t recall that.
Q. Do you recall if he said they were problematic because they had bad attendance?
Tanaka: I don’t recall.
Q. Do you recall any detail he gave you about why he thought these deputies were a problem?
Tanaka: No.
Q. Did Capt. Clark give any other justification or grounds for doing this shift rotation?
Tanaka: I don’t remember.
Q. Did Capt. Clark ever express to you any other concerns about the deputies in the Men’s Central Jail and their use of force against inmates?
Tanaka: I don’t recall him doing so.
Q. Did Capt. Clark or any of your other command staff in the Custody Division report to you any concerns during this two-and-a-half-year period about the level of force being used by deputies against inmates?
Tanaka: I don’t have any specific recollection of that.
Q. Did anyone report to you any concerns about deputies becoming overly clique-ish or engaging in gang-like behavior?
Tanaka: I don’t recall hearing anything like that.
Q. When you say, “I don’t recall,” does that mean you don’t believe you did that, or you don’t recall one way or another?
Tanaka: I don’t recall one way or another.
Instead of the definitive “that’s not what was brought to my attention,” under oath, Tanaka preferred instead to stick with the evasive and ambiguous “I don’t recall.”
THE DEVIL OR THE DEEP BLUE SEA
In short: in order for Tanaka’s jails commission testimony to be believed—-i.e. that he had zero knowledge of force issues inside the jail system (save the occasional isolated incident)–it would mean that former LASD Commander Robert Olmsted lied to the commission about his meeting with Tanaka. It would mean that former MCJ captain John Clark had multiple discussions with Tanaka about “problem deputies” inside the jail, but failed to inform Tanaka what the phrase “problem deputies” meant. It would mean that Tanaka unilaterally spiked Clark’s assignment rotation plan for dealing with these vague and undefined “problem deputies”—without ever having been informed of the reasons behind the strategy by Clark’s immediate supervisors Commander Dennis Conte and Chief Sam Jones, as well as LASD employee relations head Larry Brogan, all of whom personally approved the plan. It would mean that retired LASD lieutenant Alfred Gonzalez and sergeant Dan Pollaro–as well as other supervisors WitnessLA spoke with—are all lying when they claim that Tanaka told them to “coddle” deputies in a meeting with all MCJ’s supervisors. It would mean that those same men were also lying about Tanaka dressing down supervisors for referring to cliquish deputies as behaving like “gang members.” It would mean that, several years later, when Tanaka sent his hand-appointed supervisor Duane Harris into the jails to determine the source of conflict between Olmsted and Cruz, Harris failed to mention that force was an issue—despite the existence of four internal reports that sent up major red flags. It would mean that former custody Chief Dennis Burns knew of alarming force problems inside the jails during Harris’ investigation, but failed to report them to Tanaka. And it would mean that the current commander of LASD’s Internal Affairs Bureau, John Clark, lied under oath, by testifying in a sworn deposition that excessive force was one of the underlying concerns behind his assignment rotation plan for Men’s Central Jail—a concern he claims he made abundantly clear to every supervisor who queried him about the plan.
It is possible, of course, that this long list of department supervisors-–working and retired—are guilty of multiple elaborate falsehoods or dereliction of duty, or both, and Paul Tanaka alone is telling the truth. Let us say, for argument’s sake, that those who claim they attempted to sound the alarm and were shut down by Mr. Tanaka, are in fact liars engaged in a conspiracy to frame the undersheriff. The story that Paul Tanaka presents in his testimony is not any prettier. It speaks of a bungling, incompetent bureaucrat who was somehow too busy or distracted by other departmental affairs to pay any attention at all to a major abuse problem inside the jails, that had resulted in a pile of broken bones and worse injuries, and turned MCJ into a virtual lawsuit factory. And yet this same bureaucrat still somehow found time to unilaterally shut down a crucial jail reform effort–without bothering to get to the bottom of why that reform was necessary.
Tanaka’s explanation for nixing John Clark’s assignment rotation plan is almost comically implausible. His ignorance of four crucial reports on force inside the jails is equally difficult to swallow. But, even if it happens to be true, it implies a level of managerial incompetence unfit for Mayberry, let alone the second in command at the largest sheriff’s department in the United States.
UPDATE: For those who have not read the rough transcript of the testimony of the undersheriff and the sheriff before the commission, and would like to take a look, you may find the transcript here.
As Mama Gump would say “stupid is as stupid does.” Tanaka is lying and now what happens? Nothing! Either Tanaka is totally inept or lying. There are NO other options. Well, Mr. Baca, you now have numerous allegations of serious misconduct, by the Undersheriff. Will you relieve Tanaka of duty and start an investigation? Lastly, C I am offended that you would compare Mayberry with the LASD. Mayberry is a much better department! LOL
Another one sided article that fails to articulate the real problem (AND IT’S NOT BACA OR TANAKA) Tanaka deserves a commendation for holding people accountable to their work. Simply stated, if you don’t perform, you don’t get promoted.
The Sheriff has appointed a good Undersheriff who has been doing a great job, especially with jail reform. It’s Funny how people attack the man and try to bring him down with their hidden agendas.
Shouldn’t the bigger story be about Anthony Brown, the jail house informant. Oh I forgot, it’s easier to sensationalize a prominant figure rather than a convicted felon who’s credabilty is in question…..isn’t WLA suppposed to be reporting on the justice and/or injustice that occur on both sides of the fence…things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm…..
I think Celeste FREmoan is a Cops Ex or married to a 3rd Striker since she is for Jail and 3rd strike reform and is anti Law Enforcement
New: who was the better Undersheriff? Would it be Tanaka, Waldie or Stonich? Just curious!
No new stories for the week….regurgitate old info. Award winning.
Not much new meat here but a good distillation of what should be apparent to anyone following the bouncing ball. Either everyone’s lying or the Undersheriff is one of the most incompetent managers not just in the department but in the workforce. I think it’s helpful that the article sets things up as black and white as they are.
Interesting posts. Five out of six for Tanaka. Interesting turn of events.
It is amazing how this is like a trial, in the sense that it is not about truth or did the accused do the crime, its about the show and confusing the issues. Example ask about the convicted felon, divert from the testimony.
Attack Celeste and tag as being anti-cop (maybe, after all she is a journalist).
Compare names for Under Sheriff as though there is no alternative
And then tag the info as old and boring.
Can I ask a question, if you were in charge of something and called into a meeting with Mr. Tanaka and told him you “did not recall” or you “did not know”, what would his response be if it was your responsibility to know?
I am just asking. Those of you that have been in those meetings know the answer, so his answers are a little bit confusing.
Hearst, were you able to put that superbly worded sentence together all by yourself?
Left at the Ball:
Good question? I don’t think Tanaka would accept an answer of “I don’t Know”…..this is very bad.
I know that Paul was well informed by this supervisor, (Chris K, Heber and many more) at the jail. How can anyone believe the answer “I don’t Know” hopefully the FBI will also ask the same questions. and his reply will be ” I take the 5th”. Paul you were too busy trying to take over Region 2, and you failed to handle your own problems. When I worked COPS you use to yell from the Captain’s Office. Where are you going to yell from now. The same problems are here lets see you pin the jail problems on Captain Dan, he is loyal to you and the bus can roll over him.,
FS: I can’t believe that Dan doesn’t understand that for Tanaka to get out (a little) of this mess someone needs to get thrown under the bus and fail to call paramedics! Sorry Dan, but it hast to be you!
Too funny with all the new names that just popped up. Like “new guy”,,Hearst, etc. Same posters, different flavor, and again no substance. I keep my name, get booted ocasionally, but speak my mind.
Tanaka will prevail through all this. It’s unfortunate, but true. He holds many trump cards, and Baca knows it. Why would baca ruin his career when they can take a chance this will blow over like all other LASD write ups. Aero Bureau, nothing more on that. Time always remedies a bad situation and this too will be history. I’ll bet a paycheck on this one.
Further to Follow,
You’re a fraud. You got your ass handed to you by Roy and Piety. For some unknown reason, you still have the nerve to continue posting and spewing nonsense. Celeste, hasn’t the time come to finally rid this blog of FTF’s posts and silly antics? You followed through with due dilligance after his bs posts about Roy. Please do us all a favor and remove him once and for all. How many more times are you going to allow his rants to take over a comment thread? Just a thought, afterall once a liar, always a liar. Thanks again for your good work.
Hi FTF… I will take the paycheck bet… The federal “criminal” grand jury is involved now. There will be no ice cream and pizza parties for the Tanaka crowd after all the dust settles. I sense a lot of pain coming their way. As the ringleader and master of ceremony, PT will ultimately fall; either by a graceful retirement or a not so graceful trip to the big house.
#13-“Tanaka will prevail through all this. It’s unfortunate, but true.”
True statement, but not unfortunate. The Sheriff and Mr. Tanaka are human beings like you or me. They are fallible. However, they learn from good hearted mistakes and move on. That’s what I think is happening now. We should all support them and the LASD into becoming a better police agency.
FTF: You’re right on your view of other postings. If LASD history is a gauge to follow then we all know that the brass usually skate, especially those who have lied, cheated and stole from the integrity of LASD. Currently, LASD is a third rate organization similar to any south of the border. A jerk of an undersheriff once told me I didn’t see the bigger picture. This picture(if not taken down)will be the end of us and all the blood and sacrifice of those on our wall would have been for nothing! Too sad for so many brave to have their memory disrespected.
What’s unfortunate to me is that the man at the top is getting a pass. No mention of him. Where, exactly, does the buck stop?….lol
C, it’s beginning to appear like you are a fan of the Sheriff while despising Tanaka.
Newsflash, the Sheriff appointed Tanaka to that position. Olmstead told the Sheriff of the problems.
Maybe like #11 FS says, Tanaka was too busy trying to take over Region II.
The Sheriff was too busy to follow up on what Olmstead told him.
Again, I ask, where, EXACTLY, does the buck stop?
In my book, it’s not with Tanaka. He’s not the top man.
What you mean no new stories. I read in L.A. opinion that sheriff and the boss Paul are under investigation but th bosses won’t talk. The reception center is bad with all the placa Mr Antonio villiarogosa should run baucshee street jail
#16 neweguy…. Did you see the CCJV testimony of Mr. T? Where in it did you hear or see him learning from his “good-hearted” mistakes? He denied remembering things, denied getting his box of celebratory cigars, denied Olmsted had spoken to him about the force issues…. Blew off the idea that he had screwed up when he bullied the supervisors at MCJ, refused to take responsibility for nixing the Clark plan to rotate assignments without even finding out what was going on, denied telling a room full of investiglators, including the feds (the feds!) to turn off their recorders and work in the grey. Look up the term sycophant, and then look in the mirror my friend.
To get a grip:
Sycophant ? This little circus midget has 0 integrity Period. Had this been ANY deputy they would be chopped off at the ankles. Paul your not even a man ! I’m glad the cat is finally out of the bag.
FTF: Keep posting!
New guy, you’re on L-tac and everyone else is on dispatch! FTF, you just dont have your radio on. The feds are hot on Mr T’s heels and he knows it. New guy are you joking when you say he deserves a commendation for holding people accountable?? What does he deserve for lying to the CCJV?? What about his deliberate indifferece?? We’ll see about that in the near future. Best Undersheriff?? Carona was America’s sheriff. What happened to him? I bet there will be some serious house cleaning and its not going to be pretty.
@New Guy, the Federal Grand Jury exists for one purpose: To indict. A Federal Prosecutor presents a case to members of the jury whom will decide if there is enough evidence to prosecute the subject or subjects. In other words, a Federal Prosecutor is currently seeking to prosecute member(s) of the LASD. We just don’t know who, how many or what the alleged charges may be.
I think this is very serious and only the beginning. Once the current regime falls, only then will we really know how much corruption and incompetence exists within the LASD.
Post 15 you are probably right tanaka may leave but the indictment needs to go his way. Lacera Can deny a retirement under circumstances I will shocked the feds booked him at the federal lockup. Was far as posts 14 and 19 well, I didn’t see anythingbthat rose to my level worth mentioning, but post 18 made an excellent observation
Blue Piggy, my post was meant for the writer of the previous post, not PT. PT is anything but a sycopant; He just surrounds himself with them… sorry for the confusion.
I think the biggest point to be made, besides whether any of this will bite PT in the butt, is the obvious damage he has done to this department, on a working level, starting with the fact that he has us choosing sides within. Would anything change if he became Sheriff? It would only get worse (if possible).
@#2 “newguy, you must really be a “New Guy” if you really believe he rewards people for their performance, wait I stand corrected he does, but it’s how they perform for him, not the public.
There was a time, on this department that all you had to do is work hard and be squared away and good things would come your way, but that was when the department was run by hard working streets Cops that didn’t feel threatened by someone with an opinion of their own. I don’t hate you PT advocates, because any one of us could have sold our souls for that bigger pay check, I hate what you and this department have become. And I pray that it will change, so that I can once again feel proud to be a member.
Huh, you’re right. Throw out good work, be dedicated to your values and you won’t get promoted. Be a talker, sell your soul and you can make it up the ladder to commander or even higher. That’s after you are part of the 700 club…
PP
#27- No sides taken here. I’m on your side (if you’re for doing ethical things and abiding by the law). I don’t thinkanyone has us choosing sides, if you are, you better evaluate yourself. It’s about the department and making it better. The Sheriff and Mr. Tanaka are doing good things, weather you choose to believe so or not.
As in poor standing on sergeants lists and above. Most people who promote on a numerical list rather than banding, would only be promoted if you were the first 150 on an eligible list of 500 based on department needs.
Unfortunately, promotions have exceeded that number going as high as 750. That being said, we now have questionable supervisors and management who run this department.
Perhaps that explains the mess we are in now, and the very same personnel have oversight of the ongoing jail issues.
Can anyone please refute that or explain the trend to the negative?
Thank you
Just curious. If u do well on a Written test, does that make you a good supervisor? Personally, I think not. The banding system is not perfect, but it’s probably the best tool out there for individual assessment. Unfortunately, we have a few disgruntled employees ( some on this blog) who feel they need to blame others (like those in management positions) for their shortfalls. Don’t get me wrong, management make mistakes, but to blame one single person or persons is wrong. I see some of the posts and articles on this blog and it just makes me sick on how facts are twisted. I guess some feel the Feds are on to something, but I think not. We will see. In the meantime, I hope all of us can remember our purpose and core values to make this department better.
Personally, I support the Sheriff and Undersheriff for the great job thus far. I think the jail commission would agree.
@What’s Right, the jail commission is about as significant as the comments on this blog. But what don’t you get about subpoenas from a federal grand jury? Indictments are imminent unless the feds themselves are corrupt.
“Personally, I support the Sheriff and Undersheriff for the great job thus far. I think the jail commission would agree.”
Do you really think that folks on this blog are so stupid as to not know that you have a vested interest in the current regime? Who else would support this organization of cronies?
We will see.
#31 says
“The banding system is not perfect, but it’s probably the best tool out there for individual assessment.”
Who the hell do you think you’re kidding? LASD replaced the numerical list system with the banding system simply for the purpose of fulfilling the Bowman requirements. Otherwise, males would be able to bring ltitgation due to being ahead of females on the list who would be promoted before them in order to fulfill Bowman.
Banding is ALL about plucking certain select people from the “band” at will who otherwise would have to wait, or in the case of some band two personnel not being promoted at all in spite of having higher scores than others in band two who get promoted.
Banding is ALL about “flexibility” and not having to go simply by the test scores.
It’s the worst system there is and is dictated by political correctness. It also invites cronyism which the LASD has taken full advantage of.
Get Real, you’re right on the money. What’s Right, you must live under a rock! Your own words: “I support the Sheriff and Undersheriff for the great job thus far.” We all would love to hear from your perspective what leads you to that bizarre conclusion.
For the record, here is what is known so far: Both Baca and Tanaka have dismantled the civil service system and replaced it with a political patronage system known as pay to play. A donation to their political campaigns leads invariably to promotions and assignments in coveted positions throughout the organization.
The big problem with that is that it destroys what little checks and balances we have within our department to weed out corruption and incompetence. Both have flourished under their watch.
All testing processes are compromised, and they have been since Tanaka was the chief of Admin Services. The outcomes are predetermined, and those in the car receive testing materials in advance. The results speak for themselves, and a very large percentage of sergeants, lieutenants, and above achieved their rank(s) by fraud.
Welcome to Tamany Hall, West Coast style!
Wow, you guys hit the nail on the head. Hey, has anyone ever heard whether the sheriff’s driver, chief’s aid, tanaka’s aide etc., have ever failed the written test or failed to be in band 1?
I personally don’t think so. Seems extremely ironic doesn’t it?
And I know one guys who studied about 2 minutes and wow, he made band 1. Does canvassing for re-election and taking v-time to do it guarantee anything?
Just my thoughts, but perhaps someone can verify if any aide has bombed their promotional test.
The system worked for you Further to Follow. You took the inside job and to make sergeant. Then you crashed and burned and Louie made you leave the department. Don’t be bitter at the department. You played what you thought was the inside game and lost. Now you here complaining about others doing the same thing you did. You can’t have it both ways.
For those of you who think the system is working fine, just wait until you get that trainwreck of a supervisor, trainee, or co-worker who got promoted or hired due to things other than merit.
Suck, you make a good point. I have seen both sides, Working for good management, and shaking my head at others.
Some of my best command staff have come with solid field ops experience and get what it takes to get the job done, the right way.
It’s unfortunate the new way of the Department is a plethura of backgrounds, expectations, and what their view of right and wrong is.
As far as others, we are dealing with ongoing investigations ie. contractural favoritism (soon to be a filing with ROD status), Narco theft, jail issues, and the list goes on.
For the last 8-9 months WLA has covered several UOA’s within the Sheriff’s Department. Rest assured, the statutes are still running and those units and employees in question need not rest just because nothing has not yet transpired.
Unfortunately, if you aren’t the subject, you will be a witness so for some, I hope the specialty bonus is well worth what is going to impact your lives.
Just a thought and purely conjecture on my part, but I am pretty keen at seeing trends. Sort of like whirring blades in the “still of the night”.
FURTHER TO FOLLOW, actually if you knew the truth I never got promoted off the 700 list. Just took it to take it. I did however score very high the next time but the cut off for the written was 45% due to no females. I was in band one. That was after being a deputy for 20 years. As for LT. I was in band one, and never had an admin job. Please get your facts straight. Not again please!
The Conspiracy Theories that LATBG and FTF describe are very entertaining and comical.
Please keep typing them! We love your imagination.
newguy, who is we??? You must be referring to the 4th floor or the coin holding cigar club members. I have no dog in this fight. The way I see it is right is right and wrong is wrong. Let the chips fall where they may. Then we’ll see who has the last laugh….
pp, I made reference to my post 30 when all was numerical. Sort of like playing golf. No team members to carry the weak player. If you want to win the tournament, it’s all on you.
Now days, banding puts a person in a big pot and you get promoted based on the car you ride in. You can’t refute that.
And, there have been people who have bad mouthed the sheriff during election, and was told, he would never get promoted although he was in band 1. The list expired.
Banding is a list based on popularity, not work values. Sorry if I had to break that revelation to you, but it’s a fact in all walks of life.
Anybody remember the Sgts. exam circa 1998 when the Sheriff sent out a bulletin telling personnel that:
The portions of the test will be the written, AP and oral interview.
Here’s the most revealing sentence of any that was ever in a bulletin.
“The weight of the various portions of the test will be determined after the test is completed”.
Translation: However we have to score the test to get females to pass this test, that’s how we’ll do it.
Then, voila, you only needed a 53% to pass the written.
Then everybody was placed in band one.
Absolutely comical (in a sad way).
And there my friends, the seeds were sown for the path with the banding system we are dealing with today. There were males who studied their ass off, got north of 90% on the written, scored well above the average on the oral, received above the average AP, and NEVER got promoted.
Let’s cut the bullshit.
Guys like PP, (RegII FTO, SEB) should be promoted if they receive a minimum passing score. We need cops/supervisors like him.
Then there’s the other side of the banding issue. And we all know the truth about how it works, and WHY it works that way.
Put this shit to bed. It is what it is. Everybody can point to an example where the banding system works for the overall good of the department.
And everybody who’s honest with themselves can point to many more examples where it’s an overall detriment to the department.
If for no other reason, it allows other things than merit to be considered.
Mr. 31 What’s Right, you may be correct about it being disgruntled employees who are sounding off on this issue.
But where you are HUA my friend, and being disengenous, is in stating that the banding system is the best system.
It is that very system that allows someone who scored lower in every phase of the test to be promoted over the person who scored higher in every phase.
Now, is it wrong for that guy to be disgrunteld? Is he not getting fucked over in spite of his scores? Of course he is.
The banding system invites that bullshit, and it causes dissention in the ranks.
And then you, in trying to be the LASD’s cheerleader, say that the banding system is the best system.
WHY KEEP SCORE?
This article recaps Tanaka’s testimony to the Commission and exposes his sworn testimony (like that really matters) deposition. Both of those are snapshots into this man’s mind. Tanaka replies irresponsibly and incompetently to a series of questions in the specific depo regarding MCJ and Captain Clark with laughable responses. How about flat out fabrications? Read those questions and read those responses and you be the judge. But the game Tanaka plays is that he is obligated to answer questions in a deposition. But will that or any other case of this nature ever make trial, even if it is a case worth fighting? Hell no, Tanaka will settle every single case. And why? He knows he will get his ass handed to him in trial during cross examination. Every skeleton of his will be on the table for all to see. He can’t hide in a trial with a judge and jury present to evaluate his testimony and the evidence. “I don’t recall, I don’t remember,” bla bla bla would get shoved right up his ass. Tanaka knows he cannot survive as the Undersheriff in trial. All cases are settled.
And what is Tanaka doing with all of this, “No one EVER told me about force problems at MCJ. Not one Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, Commander, Chief or Assistant Sheriff EVER told me about problems. If they say the did, its a LIE.” Oh yea, sure Paul, everyone’s a liar? Character assassination, that’s what has always worked in the past, eh Paul? Well here is a news flash. Tanaka “thinks” he is going to deflect all responsibility away from him with those stupid statements. Rather, he “hopes” he deflects all responsibility away from himself. Yep, he has poured the concrete and it is stone hard. Tanaka is going to disavow any and all knowledge of any problems at MCJ ala the 2000-3000 boys and allllllllll of the force coverups that have been going on. He has just thrown everyone in the water an anchor to use as an life vest. He has just said in his testimony and depositions, “Screw you guys, you’re alllllllll on your own. The Feds can’t touch me.”
Oh sure, Cavanaugh, Burns, Conte, Olmsted, Cruz, Nee, Hebert and all of the other lieutenants and sergeants in the MCJ Cigar Club are allllllllllll going to take the fall for you, Paul. Grand Jury proceedings in-progress? Oh yea, you better believe it. And when this is all over, the Kool-Aid drinkers, ashtray cleaners, cigar rollers and shoe shine boys and girls who partook in the MCJ reign of terror are going to be in a real bad situation. Happy Holidays fellas, it may be your last. Watch the gates, the gates are closing.
Time to take some people to school. After the 1998 sergeant exam, the executives were not happy with just that. Subsequent tests involved manipulating oral scores, leaking scoring criteria to the select few, you name it. The 2000 lieutenant exam was the first without a written test, just an AP and an oral. Yes, all the well-connected but clueless who could not get into a Band 2 from the previous tests got a freebie and were promoted.
Fast forward to the 2003 lieutenant exam. Now Tanaka is the head of Admin Services and he destroyed what little merit was left in the system. He fired his director of personnel, Robert Lindsey, because he was deemed to ethical for his comfort. He was replaced with the first of a string of directors of personnel/campaign contributors/incompetent fools who did whatever tall Paul told them to do. Hiring standards were thrown out the window, objections from background investigators routinely dismissed, and we hired a bunch of well-connected thugs who are making news in all the wrong ways now. Sound familiar?
Back to that 2003 test. According to a retired chief, UNDER SWORN TESTIMONY, he revealed that he altered the promulgated list and placed individuals on the reachable bands at the direction of Tanaka. Many careers were made and many careers ended on that test without merit.
A well-connected sergeant/candidate on that test wrote the entire written test down during the copy inspection period and walked out of the testing area with it unchallenged. The executives, for reasons unknown, elected to use the EXACT SAME test in 2005, and the results speak for themselves. People who could not even pass the written with a minimum score of 70% were bragging in the hallways about their 98%. Baca himself in EPC was furious because the results appeared to be evidence of large-scale cheating.
Every single sergeant and lieutenant exam since then has been compromised in every aspect, from the written, the oral, the AP, and the appeals process. This is where the executives play cleanup and rearrange the results in case a favorite son/daughter failed to take advantage of department-sponsored cheating, or the wrong person made it through the process and needs to be knocked down a band or two.
For those who actually achieved their career goals honestly they are to be commended. Unfortunately, they are becoming an endanged minority. For the few on this board who think this is just conspiracy theories from the disgruntled, I can only laugh and your naivete, and at the same time shed a tear for the cancer that eats through the core of this once proud institution.
2014 cannot come soon enough, I plan on collecting FTF’s paycheck…
Absolutely astonishing post LATBG. You are very versed and speak from first hand knowledge.
This is exactly my point and you articulated it very well. That explains why aides, drivers etc don’t fail their exams on the first go around.
This explains why there are certain people in management who would be better off laying tile than sitting in certin positions. Just because someone is alledgedly a good street cop or that region 2 mentality doesn’t mean much in the big scheme of things. In fact, so called ghetto stations are historically a hotbed of peer pressure, cliques, and the inability to let it go and keep living the past.
Times have changed, policing has changed, and I personally don’t want marginal test takers who 1:don’t have a grasp of the overall knowledge base of the organization, 2:live the past of their ghetto station, if you want to call it that, and 3 say what needs to be said at any expense to preserve their anemic management position sitting on panels, going to meetings and failing to be a visionary for the Department. Lord knows, we need some couragious souls to step up.
Off to the BBQ. Have a safe Labor Day, and again I liked your post LATBG
I till believe the testing based on numerical should be from top to bottom.
#31 What’s Right says:
“Just curious. If u do well on a Written test, does that make you a good supervisor?”
Nope. Just doing well on a written test doesn’t mean you will be a good supervisor.
But if you do poor on a written test, you CANNOT even be a competent supervisor, because it shows you don’t have an elevated knowledge of the law or department policies/procedures.
You’re the kind of guy who thinks a supervisor should just be a totally bitchin guy/gal.
If you don’t see the importance of a supervisory candidate being able to score well on a written test…then I’m a fool for even discussing it with you. lol
I guess the bottom line really is,”Why didn’t I get promoted?” Thanks for solidifying your TRUE motives. Have a great labor day!
Newguy, you are correct. That seems to be the bottom line of these posts. Further to Follow – Everyone can’t work a desk job as deputy like you did and study on duty for the written. Once you made sergeant you found that out and crashed and burned. Why didn’t you bring any of these suggestions up while you were still on the department?
@New Guy, clearly you have never voiced your opinion contrary to Mr. Baca, Mr. Tanaka or anyone who follows their management style, because if you had you would see what happens to people who don’t fall into “lock step.” Or, is it that you just choose not to recognize it.
As far as them doing good things. What good things. The department has not been in this much turmoil in the 30 years that I have been around. Most of the Execs have an “all about me” mentality.
You can get on a blog and defend the Execs, but those of us who have been around see what’s going on and we’re helpless to be able to do anything about it. The “grunts,” that are the backbone of this department, are no longer valued like they use to be. As you can see by Mr. Tanaka’s depo, when the poop hits the fan, it’s every man for himself.
#51..
Well put, every man/woman for themselves…..from what I have seen. Very tragic.
@Huh.
Spoken like true disgrunt!
Enjoy!
@49 New Guy
I notice how you didn’t refute ANY of the things previously said about the testing procedure and banding.
Might as well say: “Well, I’m in the car…it sucks to be you”. lol
It doesn’t suck to be me. I’ve never kissed anybody’s ass.
If Tanaka or Baca come to a sudden stop, you’re going to break your fuckin nose.
I’m fine with WHO I am. It sucks to be you because of WHAT you are.
You’ll have to live with that.
I chose not to.
Hey all, ribs were fantastic, and I smell like hickory chips.
JB, sorry I was in all 3 regions and when we had edward and william as tac channels, spent time on freq 21,22 and 14. The days when air 140, argus were alive and well and julie was the first female pilot. Lists were promulgated at 500 and promoted to 150. We used to wait on a Friday evening when the teletype spit out the list.
Haven’t crashed and burned, but hopefully I can hang til 2014 or 3 bad days in a row. Whichever comes first.
I’m listening to one of my favorite pink floyd songs. Something about a “Brick” in the wall.
Kind of flattering to know a 57 year old can enjoy that kind of music……
#54 great comment. Stand up and do the right thing. You will be rewarded in time. People like you are the ones we fight for in breakups. Don’t be discouraged and be proud of your convictions.
Trust me, it isn’t easy at the near top sitting with so called patrol studs who think their role in region 2 writes them a ticket to fame. I have news for everyone, the only un-conditional respect I have is the ones who rest on a wall at STARS Center. Those ladies and gentleman are my heroes.
Well said “Get Real.” The kiss butts never have anything constructive to say. Did anyone happen to notice that “New Guy” clearly read my post and the best he could do was try and offend me by calling me a “disgrunt,” but did he answer my question about “what good things have they done.”
@”New Guy” I wish I could explain to you that being an admitted “grunt” on this department doesn’t make me “disgruntled.” Believe it or not I have never bothered to try and promote, for fear of having to work side by side with guys like you, who have only their best interest in mind. After all someone has to carry this department and actually do police work while you guys are busy working on your own agenda.
I’m sure there are plenty of better Cops than myself on this department, but I would rather aspire to be like them than to loose sight of what this department is suppose to be. So keep the insults coming I’m sure I’ve stood up to bigger men than yourself and will continue to do so.
Unlike some of you, I have no beef with RegII guys. I think they have the toughest job on the department. Especially when the non streetcop brass comes in every so often and tries to break their morale.
Yeah, some of them are total A/H’s and think that because they worked the ghetto they’ve punched their ticket and should be handed everything.
I BELIEVE THOSE GUYS ARE THE EXCEPTION!!!! Most RegII people go about their job quietly and professionally.
There’s no shortage of Bob Bitchin’s who are legends in their own minds in every region of the department.
That’s human nature.
And hey, there’s no shortage of guys who realize that their resume doesn’t stack up against most of the other guys on promotional lists. So they concentrate on the ass kissing route to get promoted. You can’t knock them for being stupid…lol…it’s worked for a lot of them the last few years.
FYI there new guy, I’ve taken one Sgts. exam in my career. Didn’t study a lick, scored above average, didn’t have the experience to be promoted and shouldn’t have been promoted.
Never even took the test again.
Over the years I’ve seen HUNDREDS of guys who were passed over who should have been promoted ahead of the admin. kiss asses, relatives and golf buddies of the brass. Didn’t happen that way. Banding is what allows that to happen.
I’m not disgruntled for myself, because I never seriously tried to promote. But I am disgruntled because I’ve seen hundreds of good cops/buddies get passed over by the admin. pogues and cronys. You bet your ass that causes me to be disgruntled. No different than if I saw a buddy getting fucked over for and admin rolled for some bullshit beef that everybody and their mother new was bullshit.
The promotional process is bullshit and everybody knows it.
SOME really good guys get promoted in spite of it.
But lots of good street cops get fucked over by it, and again, everybody knows it.
The fact that you are backing the banding process tells me all I need to know about where you’re coming from. The only guys who are in favor of banding are the ones who fear they won’t score high enough on the test.
I can’t speak on the cheating issue, as I’m also just a grunt and not aware of it.
@huh.
lol,you are reaching.
@FTF.
You’re even funnier and as disgruntled as they come. Mentioning region 2 in an attempt to exclude them.
FROM FTF-“Trust me, it isn’t easy at the Near Top sitting with so called patrol studs who think their role in region 2 writes them a ticket to fame”
I’m sure the men and women who work that region are proud to have a leader like you. There will be FTF 🙂
@New Guy, I’m reaching, please explain yourself, and while you’re at it please tell me what “good things” they have done. You seem to be avoiding providing an answer, or maybe you just realize there isn’t one.
He cant and probably doesn’t have mirrors in his house doesn’t want see the reflection
I was in region 2 during a big admin move due to some station issues I went as a supervisor like hellmold went to century it’s called cleaning house. Remember the jack Holt carol freeman days.? My guess no.
@FTF – During the Jack Holt/Freeman days you working safely indoors doing their bidding. You had no contact with police work. After they helped you make sergeant you disappeared until Louie sent you into retirement.
JB, you weren’t even on the Department back then, that I know. I’m not getting the loie connection. Perhaps you can enlighten all of us, but keep in mind, he is only a Captain and you are two ranks down.
People who share their interest on these blogs with their peers get burned through other peers etc., etc.,
Perhaps working in OHS, could prove an invaluable lesson for those who hold coveted positions.
You see, I am at a point where if I get pissed for 3 days in a row, or decide to pull it, my management I answer to (and that is a short list)can’t control my retirement, destiny or other perceived paybacks.
But one thing is for sure. No position, even yours JB is guaranteed. And I think you realize that, at least I hope you are educated enough to maybe think, who is this guy and what is he about?
Although some rule by the keyboard, the ink in my pen is still wet…
@FTF- You sound like a pompous tyrant. We definately don’t need people like you in the LASD. I feel bad for you. I think the problem isn’t what you describe. I think the problem may be you. I hope you find happiness in life.
BLAMING OTHERS FOR YOUR PROBLEMS:
We all dealt with people who blame others all the time and who try to be right by making others wrong.
Such people are usually afraid to admit that they share a part of the responsibility and so feel more comfortable when someone else carries the blame for a bad thing that happened to them.
Sometimes the act of blaming others can be a cry of pain and a request for support. When the person desperately wants someone else to fix something for him he might blame him in order to motivate him to take actions.
All of these kinds of blame are obvious and can be noticed by any person without difficulty but there is a more dangerous type of blaming that is too vague to be noticed and that is in the same time so powerful and effective to the extent that the person who gets the blame might feel that he is wrong even if he was right.
Well said newyguy. That’s exactly some of the paraphrasing that was used in my master’s thesis.
Trust me, get a degree in psychology and even you will question your sanity.
I’m done here. New article about ICE just popped up. This is near and dear to my heart. Oversight of a koint border operation.
Have a good day everyone. You too BJ
You are so welcomed!
@FTF- You sound like a pompous tyrant. We definately don’t need people like you in the LASD. I feel bad for you. I think the problem isn’t what you describe. I think the problem may be you. I hope you find happiness in life.
BLAMING OTHERS FOR YOUR PROBLEMS:
We all dealt with people who blame others all the time and who try to be right by making others wrong.
Such people are usually afraid to admit that they share a part of the responsibility and so feel more comfortable when someone else carries the blame for a bad thing that happened to them.
Sometimes the act of blaming others can be a cry of pain and a request for support. When the person desperately wants someone else to fix something for him he might blame him in order to motivate him to take actions.
All of these kinds of blame are obvious and can be noticed by any person without difficulty but there is a more dangerous type of blaming that is too vague to be noticed and that is in the same time so powerful and effective to the extent that the person who gets the blame might feel that he is wrong even if he was right.
Fellas, any chance we can 10-22 the pissing contest? Take it to the parking lot and shake hands when it is over.
@ “New Guy,” did you really tell FTF that he sounds like a “pompus tyrant” and “we don’t need people like that on LASD.” Maybe you do see the light. Now, if you would just realize you just described many of our execs, who try to rule by fear, you might realize that they are the problem.
Oh, and I’m still waiting for you to tell us what good things they have done.
@#66, you’re right about the pissing contest and the proper way to settle things, however, there is no way to do that on a forum like this.
Circus guy, good point. We can debate the issues in a productive fashion. New guy still has to answer the challenge, and with some specificity. I gave you my take, and trust me, there’s a whole lot more…
LATBG and Huh:
You two are true narcissistics. Narcissistic personalities have an unbelievable ability to distort reality and twist scenarios into a believable story that fit any given situation. I truly feel bad for both of you.
Hang in there. We still love you.
After reading these comments I can see that supervision is lacking at LASD. I can honestly say that recruiting will be a difficult task for GOOD men and women in the future. Oh yea, LASD is the best Law Enforcement Department. Just look at POPA vs ALADS fight which POPA started. Supervision shinning again.
@New Guy, I’m “trying” to stop the pissing match because #66 was right, but you make it really hard and since there are no identities revealed here things can’t be handled that way, but I now understand. You are incompetent.
Narcissim is basically when someone is so in love with themselves they think it’s all about them. What does that have to do with my comments. Most everything said is about how it has affected the department, not my personal career, which is on track for my personal goals.
You keep comming back to respond, yet you still can’t answer my question. Here it is again, slower and louder, “WHAT ARE THE GOOD THINGS THEY HAVE DONE?
Oh, and don’t feel bad for me. I’m just fine! As far as loving me, you wouldn’t if you were my “incompetent” supervisor because you would get tired of me always correcting you. Kind of like now!
Can anyone confirm that ALADS has stated in a public forum to anticipate approximately 17 federal indictments in the near future? Any specific information (no names please but rank(s) would be worth talking about. And, why (MCJ force or ‘other’ crimes associated with WLA and Times reporting? Thanks.
EDITOR’S NOTE:
I’ve been bouncing in and out of town of late and so haven’t had the time for detailed monitoring, but I too want to thank #66 for the wise and honorable attempt to inject sanity and civility into the conversation.
However, a couple of you still can’t resist getting personal, and it just devolves from there. So let’s get it back on track.
As for discussion fodder, there will be a brand new jails commission meeting tomorrow—the last before the commission issues its report in October. It should be extremely interesting.
In the meantime, I didn’t originally post the links to the transcript of the sheriff and the undersheriff’s testimony before the jails commission, but I have now added the links to the bottom of Matt’s story above.
The transcript, while rough, is assuredly worth reading, especially the parts that cover the exchanges with the undersheriff.
P.S. This information was posted on a LASD social site.
“ALADS information from 09-05-12 meeting This information was received from an ALADS rep who put the information out on a station e-mail.
Here you go:
Indictments will be definitely coming down in as soon as January. (Possibly up to 17).”
Can anyone confirm this information? Any specific info (no names please, just rank(s) and what alleged federal crimes). Is this regarding WLA and Times reporting on MCJ issues?
Thanks