At around 2:30 p.m. at the Tuesday, March 5, meeting of the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors, Supervisor Mark Ridley-Thomas unexpectedly read in a brand new motion, co-sponsored by Supervisor Sheila Kuehl.
If passed by a majority of the board, the motion will instruct Sheriff Alex Villanueva to discontinue his newly-launched practice of “unilaterally reinstating” fired deputies, until all legal questions have been resolved – including appeals.
By “legal questions” and “appeals,” we assume the two supes are referring to the county’s recently filed lawsuit against Villanueva, having to do with his extremely controversial reinstatement of former LASD deputy Caren Carl Mandoyan, a legal move that will have its first hearing on Wednesday.
Carl Mandoyan, as most readers know, was discharged from the LA County Sheriff’s Department on September 14, 2016, for allegations of domestic abuse, stalking, and spying on his ex-girlfriend, who was at the time also a deputy also working at the department.
LA’s new sheriff reinstated Mandoyan in mid-January.
The newly-announced motion also directs County Counsel to evaluate said legality of Sheriff Alex Villanueva’s proposed “Truth and Reconciliation Commission,” as well as “similar efforts to reevaluate discipline previously imposed on Sheriff’s Department personnel.”
“The Sheriff’s Department needs the public’s trust in order to be effective, so ensuring transparency, legality and oversight in this matter are necessary,” said Ridley-Thomas. “The men and women of the Department, as well as the people of Los Angeles County, deserve no less.”
Kuehl was equally emphatic. “There are a lot of unanswered legal questions, not only regarding the Sheriff’s reinstatement of a previously dismissed deputy, but also his plans to proceed with a proposed ‘Truth and Reconciliation Commission,’” she said. “I need to understand all our legal options. Rolling back reforms adopted by the Department, and doing so without legal authority, cannot be allowed.”
County Counsel will be asked to come back with their report for the board within 30 days.
The Board of Supervisors is expected to vote on the Ridley-Thomas/Kuehl motion on March 12.
More shortly.
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Supervisor Mark Ridley-Thomas appears to be doing his best General ‘Buck’ Turgidson impression: I’m not saying we won’t get our hair mussed, but if we cloak the LASD with our Board’s legitimacy (LOL) then we will have restored the political universe back to its proper axis.
Meanwhile, ol Kheul is trying on a Dr. Strangelove routine, droning on about so-called reforms perpetrated by the doomsday machine that was the McDonnell-Teran regime. Oh good golly, this is going to be a classic! Especially if/when the Sheriff wins.
When in Rome, ………
This one case just might hurt a lot of deputies who we’re wrongfully terminated for other individuals personal and political gains. Any case sitting on the sheriffs desk for review will be haulted for sure at this time. Hopefully the the civil service commission doesn’t take this all personal and screw those who ROD any more than they have been.
The Sheriff, less than 90 days or so in office, has been made to look like an absolute buffoon. As others have asked, who in the hell is the Sheriff listening to? King Vera? Emperor Larry? What in the hell is the Undersheriff doing during all of this? The Undersheriff and the Assistant Sheriffs should be the Sheriff’s guiding light although a couple of the A/S probably just twiddle their thumbs. This is all so unreal and should have been avoided. Now this is all a disaster.
What AV doesnt understand but is quickly learning is that this Board is one of the most unified in recent history.
They all talk to each other and are particularly unified against HIM. He has NO allies and NO political base within county government. On the contrary, he’s quickly made very powerful enemies including at the CEO.
He came up in LASD during the Block and Baca years and is trying to emulate their style, but Block was a master politician who cultivated relationships and support in county government as did Baca. He will not win against the four queens and king.
He
You would think the BOS would be interested in learning from a different perspective the corruption under the McBuckles/Teran regime. The question would be why they are so opposed?
There are so many cases were good and hard working deputies were railroaded because of racism, politics etc. Plenty of evidence of systemic constitutional and labor rights violations.
Yet, all that corruption did not happened in a vacuum and the BOS is trying to keep it hidden. The champions of justice only believe in such when politics favor them.
@Charlie Unit, I’d bet that AV will be like Sheriff Curtis Smoote in the movie Fried Green Tomatoes, he will be fed the abuser’s ribs by the Board & remark in his ignorance how good they were. AV has already channeled Sheriff Curtis Smoote by minimizing the abuser & giving the ‘girly girl” threat to the Board.
The BOS of supervisors have no legal right or authority to over turn the Sheriff’s decisions. This is nothing but wasting tax payers money to fight a losing battle. If they are given those powers then the Sheriff can reverse any decision they make concerning any County department. Mr. Mandoyan was reinstated and given his peace officer authority back. Mr Mandoyan can not be terminated without any due process which is a violation of his civil right and officers bill of rights. Mr Mandoyan would be returning to Civil Service to face the same discipline charges which he was returned on which can not be done under Double Jeopardy. Everyone within the department knows the corruption that was created under the previous regime. It sounds like the BOS does not want to face the legal action they are about to endure from unlawfully terminated deputies. [WLA edit] God Bless Sheriff Villanueva
The rumor in the street is that both McDonnell and Teran are directly advising the BOS. It only makes sense, they were buddies having tea together.
If Alex is able to show Teran’s corruption, she should go to prison, and that of course cannot happen. So they are doing what they can to stop the sheriff from getting further.
Anyone who things that Kruel or the other clowns care about justice, well, is delusional. They only care about winning and are willing to spend the tax payers money, since they don’t work for it.
Caren Carl Mandoyan’s termination was upheld by the Civil Service Commission, but that Commission’s decision is also subject to appeal.
Is THAT appeal also subject to the BOS’s motion?
Joe, right on. A conspiracy to deny labor and civil rights would put a nice bow on this. Keep on it, Joe. The BOS is obviously running scared and may be over their skis.
I must agree with Apostle’s assessment regarding the political forces gathered against the Sheriff. I’m rooting for the duly elected Sheriff, but it’s plain to see these people have plans to make the Sheriff essentially an appointed police chief of the BOS.
Witness la appears to be closely aligned with the BOS and usually just repeats their narrative, and that narrative is to undermine the Sheriff.
AV screwed the pooch in his rehire of Mandoyan. With that one idiotic move, he has probably paved the way for other deputies who have legitimate grievances on their dismissal to loose their opportunity to be rehired. IF he wanted to start reinstating unjustly terminated personnel (of which Mandoyan does not qualify), he should have had staff sift through likely cases and come up with one that clearly qualified. Then he could have gone through the process – after getting the approval of the BOS, using that particular case as an example. But not we all know that’s not Villanueva’s style. THAT would have taken some thought and foresight, both of which he has clearly demonstrated he clearly lacks.
If the Department’s personnel “back” Alex in what he’s been doing and saying thus far. They should think again.
I seem to remember one Paul Tanaka who also had a bunch of Departmental followers, who thought it was going to be time to kick some ass and take names. Well, how’d that work out?
Don’t go by rumors, it makes you look a uninformed gossiping high schooler.
I heard the that they formed a committee to counsel the BOS against Sheriff Villanueva’s decisions. Hopefully the Sheriff can expose the corruption and at least disbar Teran. She is working beyond her scope of duties and everyone needs to realize OIR am which Teran was the second lead attorney failed under her watch because they did not alert or counsel the BOS on the wrong doings of the Baca regime which lead to so many civil law suit paid by the BOS. In closing Teran failed her duties under two previous regimes and she is about to destroy the BOS. Watch your backs people because there empty cells in Colorado!!
What people don’t understand is that the county civil service commission is appointed by the BOS, and they do as the county BOS wishes.
In the past the BOS, the Civil service commission, Teran and McDonnell were conspiring against deputies’ labor rights and fabricating facts or just going along.
Diana Teran used to go and sit at the civil service commission hearings giving the the evil eye to the commissioners, who understood that if they did not rule against the deputy they could be removed by the BOS, per Teran recommendations.
So appealing the case to the Civil Setvice commission was fruitless. The county BOS, Diana Teran and McDonnell were one. So now Alex is fighting the BOS, obviously a crade of crooked politicians supported and encouraged by the fake corrupted media.
Per county service rules, the sheriff has the appointing power to hire any deputy provided that deputy meats the required qualifications. Carl has a valid POST, is not reporting any physical defect, is not a convicted criminal. So my opinion is that just because Kruel wants to prove she has a bigger stick are not sufficient reasons to create this show.
O.K.
But an adverse decision from the Civil Service Commission is not writ in stone; it can be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court, and THAT’s the decision writ in stone.
In the appellate system the BOS’s influence has little sway.
Very true, it is just unfortunate that anyone has to be put through that hell of a nightmare…
@Joe; Tell that to the countless other deputies relieved of duty with lesser charges.
All the time, resources and adverse publicity continuing on Mandoyan is beyond belief. Trust me,Villanueva and Mandoyan will be “Poster Boys” of what not to do.
Once again, LASD present themselves as the laughing stock of law enforcement.
“Mandoyan didn’t qualify?” GTFOH
You don’t know shit about him or his case. If you do know him then be a man and say it to him directly. Tired of this coward like BS this department has turned into. Have some balls and tell the individual how you feel instead of talking shit behind his back and piling on.
I hope to got God every deputy that was done wrong by the old administration is reinstated and AV is allowed to do his job. Stop fucking hating on your own partners.
Unless Mandoyan pissed in your Cheerios and slept with your wife, why would you want or celebrate his demise. You ever think about how his family is dealing with this crap? How would you like to be treated if you were in his shoes. Just stop with this gang like mentality of wanting the demise of another. Just stop and think and maybe have some heart to internalize what he and his family are going through. I know his case and his ex. The whole thing is overblown and over embellished. I won’t thrash anyone but if you knew her, you’d know this was a case she put on him just to make a point. I hope the facts at some point are released just so he’d clear his name. It’s real fucked up what he’s been through and keeps going through all because he’s loyal to AV. If you know Carl, you’d agree with me 100% that he will do anything for his partners and will stick by you till the end. Shit, he was the only one that checked on me and helped me when I was IOD and couldn’t walk.
I haven’t posted here in ages, but got tired of all the childish bullshit I’m reading. The sad part is, it’s from grown ass men too.
Uh….”Cry Much”…..I just have one question. If Mandoyan is such a great guy and has exculpatory info, WHY wouldn’t he just release it as he initially said he would?
The same info that AV mentioned during his public flogging by the board. The info AV said would convince the Board the decision to reinstate Mandoyan was the right thing to do. The info that Mandoyan later decided NOT to release.
Seems to me, any concerns he would have about his privacy would be outweighed by watching his savior get pilloried.
Hire him back at the same salary/non sworn and until this issue gets resolved. Plenty of jobs working for the sheriffs department. Many Deps kept their job on cases that were ten times worse because of high ranking family members?
AVs own crack team of investigators said Mandoyan acted “irrationally and unprofessionally” and brought discredit to himself and the Department. PERFECT candidate for a Sheriffs driver with a take-home Charger!
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-sheriff-panel-abuse-deputy-20190306-story.html?outputType=amp
” It’s real fucked up what he’s been through and keeps going through all because he’s loyal to AV. ”
Cry Much, Your friend hasn’t gone through some rough times “ all because he’s loyal to AV.” Seemingly behind that loyalty, he got his job back via an unvetted process twenty seconds after AV became Sheriff. Did your friend tell the Sheriff that he was not comfortable being provided with special treatment? No, I didn’t think so. Since you mentioned it, how about the feelings of those ROD longer than your friend, who still sit at home because they didn’t cultivate a personal relationship with the Sheriff? How about their families? How about the fact that behind this bureaucratic bungling that the Sheriff cannot consider reinstating any of them until the legal appeals over his handling of this have concluded?
Dunno what happened in terms of his case but appears fortunate that there was a video tape and allegedly an inadmissible phone recording, or he would have been cleared behind all of the allegations during reinstatement and the complainant further vilified. If the discipline process was corrupt at any level, may those responsible be held accountable but please, your friend is no victim of AV loyalty. If this had not publicly blown up, he would have been just fine accepting reinstatement, a take home car and all the other perks offered. As you so eloquently noted on another thread here, your friend will wind up, “as rich AF”- so stop sniveling.
Cry Much, Your friend hasn’t gone through some rough times “ all because he’s loyal to AV.” Seemingly behind that loyalty, he got his job back via an unvetted process twenty seconds after AV became Sheriff. Did your friend tell the Sheriff that he was not comfortable being provided with special treatment? No, I didn’t think so. Since you mentioned it, how about the feelings of those ROD longer than your friend, who still sit at home because they didn’t cultivate a personal relationship with the Sheriff? How about their families? How about the fact that behind this bureaucratic bungling that the Sheriff cannot consider reinstating any of them until the legal appeals over his handling of this have concluded?
Dunno what happened in terms of his case but appears fortunate that there was a video tape and allegedly an inadmissible phone recording, or he would have been cleared behind all of the allegations during reinstatement and the complainant further vilified. If the discipline process was corrupt at any level, may those responsible be held accountable but please, your friend is no victim of AV loyalty. If this had not publicly blown up, he would have been just fine accepting reinstatement, a take home car and all the other perks offered. As you so eloquently noted on another thread here, your friend will wind up, “as rich AF”- so stop sniveling.
THE HYPOCRISY KNOWS NO BOUNDS
Had Sheriff AV implemented a new progressive socialist program to allow inmates of color(BTW White is a color)to have their punishments reduced and restored their constitutional rights the BOS would be praising Sheriff AV from high above. Does anyone believe in this new (hypothetical) release program that the BOS would petition the court to have this program stopped until all “appeals” were heard? Of course not!
How horribly tragic that wla as well as many other new outlets support the release of convicted felons, which include but not limited to; abusive parents, DV, rapists, child molesters, drug dealers etc. Please note that these felons were tried and convicted of crimes but, yet allowed to have their sentences reduced, return home and start again. (C: you know I like you but, at times, the thinking of a Lefty just isn’t logical or reasonable. Forgiveness is way too politically conditional.)
However, if your are a Cop, the social scourge and outcast of society(I’m being facetious) you are treated differently, why? There is no law that provides that American Law Enforcement is to be treated with a different legal standard but, making political statements that there is a higher standard makes for a good sound bite. None of these cases was there a prosecution, less a conviction. In fact in this case the DA clearly refused to prosecute for “lack of evidence.” Those of us in L.E. well know that lack of evidence means there was no case to prosecute. Yes, the conduct needed to be addressed and punishment implemented. My opinion was that both parties in this case are good people, they are just not good for each other. Sad but true.
If we are to support rehabilitative and restorative social justice doesn’t that include cops? Or is social justice just for the those who hate America and Israel, for example. Heck! With hating America and Israel you could run or congress from MN and get elected. You could call for the death of American serviceman, serving in combat overseas and support terrorist organizations like Hamas and get elected to US Senator in Arizona. But, if you’re a cop you get hammered and rightfully so. Again, does the sheriff have the legal authority to hire, fire and reinstate? Of course the sheriff does and past sheriffs have done so.
Sheriff AV is just doing what the social justice warriors have been calling for, these many years and that’s equal justice for all. Oh, I forgot! You only get justice if you think like the current socialist theme crossing America like the black plaque. Again, had Sheriff AV supported the release of a violent criminal illegal aliens not one word of indignation would be heard from the BOS. Please note that Sheriff AV has never advocated the release of violent criminal illegal aliens. Yes, he doesn’t like ICE in the jails. Why didn’t the BOS file petition when Sheriff AV kicked out ICE out of the jails? HYPOCRISY!
It would be my suggestion that the judge order that all parties meet and try to wok out an agreement before this gets farther out of control. I would ask that Sheriff AV advise of other cases he wants to restore and give the BOS reasonable time to confer. This does not need to be an all or nothing proposition.
I’m one of the few that got to hear Sal Alinsky (The godfather of all hate of America) say and may I quote ” The issue is never the issue; the issue is always the agenda.”
Please note that I have not attacked anyone that has posted on this thread. C: don’t get mad.
Too bad this isn’t being filmed. It could be a reality show. The man surprised everyone, had the support of people, and seems to have squandered it on a very dumb move in rehiring Mandoyan and saying some dumb things. Instead of picking his fights, he has lost credibility and came off buffoonish. What a shame.
Damn AV, this load is hard to swallow. Best of luck Amigo.
The absolute bottom line is this should NEVER have happened!!!
The optics alone dictated this guys reinstatement should not have taken place at this time. The timing and perception made the decision even more ridiculous.
All the new executive pictures aren’t even framed and hung yet, for fuck sake.
As a politician, you’ve got to play the game a bit. Not saying cower, but at least give yourself a shot.
Now, as others have stated, there are several “no brainer”, less politicized cases where the Deps should be brought back yesterday.
Horrible move and I’m a huge supporter of AV.
Mr. Deputy Sheriff, rumors are things to be known to be true, but informant not willing to come forward. However, I agree you and your friends here gossiping against the sheriff and Carl makes you look just that, bitter haters, high school adolescent.
The rumor is that McDonnell framed his own deputies for political gain, to create stats to appease the cop hater’s narrative, so that must be a gossip as well right.
LASD Apostle, if you have ever received any discipline whether warranted or not that wording is a cookie cutter copy-N-paste statement in all discipline reports, so don”t be scandalous and dramatist.
For all those who wanted to know the facts, I will attach the LA Times link, assuming the cop hater Maya did not conceal other exculpatory factors. The most serious allegation that can be proved by facts not gossip, imagination, opinions, beliefs, etc is that Carl was persistent in talking to the woman, when she did not want. For that he received 12 days punishment, it seems excessive to me.
Hey Apostle, how many calls for service reporting real abuse you 212d, and now you are here acting morally superior, cut it out man, I am sure that if could have access to your records you 212 most of that type of calls.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-sheriff-panel-abuse-deputy-20190306-story.html?outputType=amp
I’ll give you that Ownership if he had known what was going to happen, both Carl and Alex would have agreed to wait it out. Just like a deputy who is currently pending trial for an on-duty shooting where he has been charged with manslaughter that happened in Norwalk. If that deputy had known that night conducting a patrol check of the gas station, where on the previous night there had been a shooting, that deputy would probably have called in sick.
I have more respect for Alex now because in the face of harsh criticism by friends and foes, he has not buckled to the enormous pressure. The only reason why people are opposed to Carl rehire it is because of politics, because the establishment lost, and they will use anything they can to bring the sheriff down.
I am more concerned about the big picture, that if a person not part of the establishment runs a successful campaign and unseats an incumbent member of the political class, that political class will war that new person till wheels fall off, that should be the point of concern to all.
The BOS do not care about justice and don’t care about the alleged victim, she has just become the tool to screw with Alex decision.
Joe Nobuckles…you’re HILARIOUS. Really? Saying someone behaved “irrationally” is cookie cutter on discipline reports?
And…uh…”persistent?” 12 days for being “persistent?” And that’s AFTER being fired for it years ago.
I’m glad there’s a GLIMMER of lucidity in you and you think 12 days is excessive…because it IS…if the only offence was being “persistent.”
I know nothing! I see nothing!
Ownership – ditto! This has no relationship to a sudden shooting – none. This was a calculated series of events to bring Mandoyan back. As the Sheriff, AV should have known that doing so in this manner and ahead of others arguably more deserving that weren’t active in his campaign would prompt controversy. His advisors should have taken better care of him. I have zero love for the Board but with the flood of complaints they got (and I mean from inside – not those clowns that are now history), they had little choice but to act. And now AV is going to war. This is sort of like seeing a dog at the controls of a plane. You can’t understand how the hell that happened but know that it’s not going to end well.
**********************BREAKING NEWS*****************
Alex wins, Judge tells the BOS to go F****K OFFF….
Yes he did….Go Alex Go….
Ok cool, not this week he should start bringing back the rest of the ROD.
Curiously, I haven’t gotten any breaking news alert about that from the LA Times app. I’m sure I would have had the decision gone the other way………. Because, bias.
Absolutely right, Maya hasn’t tweeted anything only that she was in court waiting for the outcome of the hearing…
Um, I agree with you 100%
And 1, I don’t think any of the ROD deputies are expecting any favors from the sheriff, only a fair and factual assessment of their cases. I am sure some ROD or fired deputies understand that some ultimately will not return.
There is a war on cops, we can see the BOS, McDonnell, Teran now attorney at the OIG, and the LA Times, and all the justice warriors pseudo journalists, are fully engaged.
Speaking of Teran, if a deputy wants to complain against her for violation of constitutional rights, but she is the one taking the complaint against herself, what would be the proper protocol?
I stand corrected–LA Times article now up and notification pushed out. Better late than never. However the article’s angle is that the issue has merely been prolonged (how dare the judge!), then rehashes all the prior reporting, rather than focusing on the judge smacking down the county and what that means/why it occurred/etc. The BOS has created this crisis and a judge made very clear it was manufactured by not finding it an emergency.
Hopefully between now and June, a workable process for truth and reconciliation can be worked out. There are lots of deputies who were wronged for often political reasons during the prior regime which are waiting in limbo.
@Joe percent agreed. A fair shot is all anyone could ask. Some of the individuals who were ROD deserved it and should stay ROD. But I know a few individuals who were ROD because of race, revenge and politics.
With this win the ball is in his court. The sooner he gets moving with bringing others back who deserve it. The sooner the Mondoyan case will no longer be a topic for the BOS.
You are right Edmund, it seems Maya is the mouth piece for Teran, the BOS and Jim Mcdonnell. She does not mention anything at all about the most serious issue, which is Jim McDonnell/Teran regime manufactured the case against Carl. Then the Civil Service Commission ruled against him in May, just before the primary elections because Carl was fully exercising his constitutional right of free speech by assisting the political campaigns to remove McDonnel from office.
The BOS appoints the commissioners, and serve at the will of the BOS, who was then influenced by the McDonnell/Teran regime who pressured the commissioners to rule against Carl. Can you see the pattern?
This pseudo journalist have real stories and miscarriages of justice to report, but that would make the cops the victims, and that obviously contradicts their narrative.
So much for the right to free speech, only when you agree with those in power.
And 1:
“But I know a few individuals who were ROD because of race, revenge, and politics.”
Sounds like perfect cases for Labor Lawyers; these can be found via Google who’ll work on a contingency basis, meaning nothing is paid to the lawyer until the case is won.
So.
What are these individuals doing?
@cognistator
Many of these individuals have spoken to attorneys, but are still in the civil service process. I was told that the attorneys advised them to wait until they have exhausted all attempts of reinstatement.
So they are just waiting for the civil service process to take its course.
You have a good point Cognistator, however, most attorneys on civil issues or civil right violations are reluctant to take on this type of cases, they want to make money and these cases are not big money makers.
It seems that fighting for deputies in court is not that profitable, they are more interested in cases where the victim is a career criminal, where the cops used extraordinary force on them to subdue them, such as broken bones or deadly force.
Some attorneys are reluctant because they cannot conceive the idea that the rosie face Jim McDonnell/Teran can be that evil. One example, Arnoldo Casillas has made millions of dollars from the county, yet, if you call him and tell him you want to sue McDonneell, he will not return your calls. Now, Arnoldo Casillas gave $1500 to McDonnell’s campaign.
So there you have it, it is not easy to find a good, decent attorney who is not in the swamp willing to fight for all people’s justice. If you have any good attorneys willing to take on cases presented by deputies, please let us know.
And 1:
O.K.
Sounds plausible.
Thanks for your quick response.
Actually the best reporting on what occurred in the courtroom can be found on Frank Stoltze and Miriam Hernandezes twitter feeds. Far more detailed and telling the Maya’s spin job, including direct quotes from the judge which suggest the BOS has a very uphill battle in determining who the sheriff may deputize.
Joe Nobuckles: you sure make a whole lot of serious claims against the “McDonnell/Teran regime” as you call it. I have noticed you have never produced a singly tiny bit of evidence for any of your claims. If you think Teran is a crook, you don’t need labor law attorneys; you can go file a claim at the state bar against her for violating constitutional rights of deputies. Go ahead. Get her disbarred. Oh wait, I am sure she also has the state bar in her pocket, just as she did LASD. Or better yet, go public and turn over all the evidence of her and Jim’s evil work to the press. Heck, hold your own press conference and lay it all out for the world to see. Go ahead tough guy. You’ve been talking crap for so long, you better put up or shut up.
Astrid, wow so much hate…I can assure you the evidence is there, and you are right, I have not presented the evidence here, as this is not the courthouse.
And, yes in time, there will be not one, but many complains against her to disbar her. As far as the press goes, they are not interested in cases were the deputies were done dirty, look at the Carl Mandoyan case, a total fabricated case, that although it was “irrational and unprofessional” for him to insist in going in to get his backpack, and his actions brought discredit to himself and the department, it sure did not rise to getting fired.
So chill Astrid, you will see I am not wrong….stand by.
Folks:
More current information on all of this can be found by clicking onto http://www.scpr.org & scrolling to the appropriate story.
You seem to know a lot about Mandoyan. Have you read the case? seen the videos? the photos? Were you sitting in the EPC room at HOJ when the decision was made? Just wondering, how did they fabricate this case? I guess you would have to have all of IAB in on it (Sgts, shhhh don’t tell anyone, Lt., Ops Lt., the Captain, and the Chief), in addition to the division chief and the case review panel which included the assistant sheriffs and undersheriff and of course the sheriff. And lets not forget the hearing officer and the civil service commission. That is ONE GIANT conspiracy my friend. But I forget, it was all concocted by the magical powers of Teran/McD.
You are absolutely right, she had them all under some special spell, including the under-sheriff Neal Tyler. The executives did the dirty work for her, under the threat of getting removed from their positions, and being blocked from future promotions which were too good to let go defending another deputy.
Yes, they lied on reports, under oath, concealed exculpatory evidence, destroyed, exculpatory evidence all that my friend, under the direction and watchful fresh eyes of McDonnell and her.
All will be uncovered in time, so just be patient Astrid, be patient my friend.
Bravo Judge Beckloff! Well done, Alex and Mr. Steven Madison. Keeping a cool resolve against the pressure of outside BOS and corporate media corruption reminds one of Kipling’s poem. Joe, good work and please pass along regards. Well, well, Corrupt LA County Establishment, what do you have to say now?
Am not being snarky when I say this, but wish to be magnanimous in this clear rejection of BOS (and McDonnell-Teran) political fraudulence, so will refrain from dialoging with poor Astrid, whose insolvency as a Teran acolyte faces diminishing returns. Oh the shattered aspirations of McDonnell-Teran (BOS, LA Times, etc.) breaking more LASD deputies across the bow of a hyper-pious self-righteousness which masks the malevolent ugliness of obverse corruption. (Seems to me LA Times’ Steve Lopez owes the sheriff an official apology for that editorial.) These frauds remind one of the crooked, rogue holymen and sages of times past, praising virtue in public and committing vice in private. Revolting crowd these, whose comeuppance is long overdue. May the full hearing in June bear this same result. (After this total embarrassment the BOS will likely sue for peace, retreat and settle, thinking they’ll wait for the sheriff down the road.) Will be celebrating tonight, no further comments for now; at ease.
Yes, they lied on reports, under oath, concealed exculpatory evidence, destroyed, exculpatory evidence……..etc etc etc.
From Sgt’s to Lt’s to Captains to a Chief. Unless you have seen the madness folks, to many of you it’s non existent. Well I have seen more than 1 case that is very consistent with the above statement.
It must also be noted that in the case of these individuals, attorneys have mentioned pay-outs upwards to 8 million dollars if the cases went to trial.
Most of these ROD deputies care about their job, not the money. Which is why they are waiting on the civil service process or AV to bring them back.
These are facts folks, not ideas I’ve pulled from the sky.
Astrid must be Teran’s husband. Better yet… it’s the Cryptkeeper look-alike himself Neil Tyler. No….. wait… its Teran! Your evil deeds will come to light. So much for being a constitutional attorney when she continually broke due process rights for deputies .
Perhaps…. its Jimmy. He has alot of time on his hands. Its obviously Astrid does not work on department and if you do, you’re deeply deeply out of touch. And if you’re in a leadership position I feel sorry for your subordinates.
Evidently my comments re Corrupt LA County Establishment were too impolitic to be posted at WLA, although not worse than what I’ve seen in this story’s thread. Alas, another time to gloat. Just wanted to say:
Bravo Judge Beckloff! Well done, Alex and Mr. Steven Madison. Keeping a cool resolve against the pressure of outside BOS and corporate media corruption reminds one of Kipling’s poem. Joe, good work and please pass along regards.
C: you know what happened this afternoon with the judges decision. Please update
Thanks
I hope this all works out in an appropriate manner for all parties. If Mandoyan should remain terminated, so be it. If there were some shenanigans on the part of LASD, then expose it to the public and hold those responsible, accountable. Then bring him back.
But to the greater point, this entire situation has created irreparable harm to the Sheriff himself. This was so ill advised and rolled out in the worst Keystone Cops way possible. It has put a noble idea of reviewing wrongfully terminated employees and their cases into the trash can. This has turn what should have been very important allies of the Sheriff, into enemies of sorts. The adage of, “You might have won the battle, but you lost the war,” now has new meaning. Good luck to all.
I just saw this posted on CBS.
KCAL9
ON AIR
CBS2 Live
LIVE
Judge Rules In Favor Of Reinstated Deputy Who Was Fired Over Domestic Violence
March 6, 2019
LOS ANGELES (CBSLA) – A judge Wednesday rejected Los Angeles County’s request to immediately void the reinstatement of a deputy who was fired in 2016 over allegations of domestic violence.
In 2016, Deputy Sheriff Caren Carl Mandoyan was fired by then-Sheriff Jim McConnell after a fellow deputy alleged Mandoyan grabbed her by the neck, tried to break into her home twice, sent her harassing text messages and admitted to listening to her conversations, according to the Los Angeles Times. A county appeals board heard evidence in the case and upheld Mandoyan’s dismissal.
Reinstated Deputy Caren Carl Mandoyan (far right) attends the swearing-in ceremony for Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva on Dec. 3, 2018. Mandoyan was fired in 2016 over allegations of domestic abuse, but was reinstated when Villanueva took office. (CBS2)
Mandoyan was never criminally charged in the case.
Despite his firing, Mandoyan played a key role in new Sheriff Alex Villanueva’s election campaign last year in which he narrowly defeated McConnell. He served as Villanueva’s driver during the campaign and appeared on-stage at his swearing-in ceremony in December. Villanueva reinstated Mandoyan in his first weeks as sheriff.
In January, Villanueva defended the move at an L.A. County Board of Supervisors meeting in which the board passed a motion reprimanding Villanueva for reinstating Mandoyan.
“When you hear the details of the cases, you’re going to have a change of mind,” the sheriff told the supervisors at the time.
RELATED: L.A. County Supervisor Says Sheriff Is Endangering Public Trust
Then last week, L.A. County Auditor-Controller John Naimo, the county’s chief accountant, issued a letter stating that Mandoyan, would no longer be paid and must turn in his gun and badge, the Times reports.
“Your reinstatement was unlawful,” stated the letter dated Feb. 28, according to the Times.
On Monday, the county filed a lawsuit in L.A. County Superior Court challenging Mandoyan’s reinstatement. Attorney Louis “Skip” Miller, on behalf of the county, asked the judge to issue a restraining order removing Mandoyan, saying Mandoyan was still carrying a gun and a badge even though the county does not consider him to be an official employee of the department.
However, Judge Mitchell Beckloff said he did not see an immediate need for a court order. He said the issue could be litigated in due course, and he set another hearing on the issue for June 26.
The judge also questioned whether the Board of Supervisors can interfere in the sheriff’s hiring decisions — saying there is a clear distinction between a fired employee being rehired or reinstated.
Editor’s note:
We’ll have a story up about today’s hearing between the County and the Sheriff that covers all the basics—which many of you already know—but also covers some other elements that you may not know. However, right now I have an unrelated emergency to take care of, which means the story will be delayed and will be up either much later tonight or tomorrow morning.
Thanks for your patience.
C.
I disagree with you, real justice warriors do what is just not popular. Alex Villanueva is a true warrior, who on the current political mindset would dare to face off the political mafia, that being the BOS, The LA Times and some?
Alex Villanueva said during the campaign he was going to look into the excessive violation of constitutional and labor rights of employees, and fix the problem.
He said he was going to fire all top executives and he did, so he is doing what he said he would do. He said he was going to remove ICE from the county jails, pursuant to the current California sanctuary law, and he did.
There is a war on cops, and Alex Villanueva is just doing what is right and just, even though unpopular.
Some at the BOS (Barger)are upset because Alex Villanueva removed ICE from the county jails, so be upset with the California voters.
Unreal, those “very important allies of the Sheriff” were fully committed supporters of the old regime with a deep-seated grudge against the new guy. He was never going to earn their support, and they were simply laying in wait for the first opportunity. In fact, a whole platoon of McDonnell’s at-will employees were rehired immediately by the county CEO’s office, creating a de-facto deep state paid by the taxpayer to oppose the sheriff. This is costing millions, all to allow the board to engage in a smear campaign against a sitting sheriff, something unheard of. THAT is the real scandal, which the Times won’t touch.
Fed up, you are right, example, fired “unconstitutional attorneys “ (Teran) went to the OIG. So if you want to complain against them, for constitutional violations, well they will take the complain on themselves. Deep state at the local level, no doubt about it.
So people should be raising hell that attorneys suspected of serious constitutional violations are still attorneys getting paid by the county, full salaries and benefits.
The “unconstitutional attorneys” knew about the “Santuary Law” approved by the state legislators, yet failed to implement it in the county jail because their bosses did not like it.
So they only pretended to be constitutional when it suited their agenda. Regardless whether Sheriff Villanueva agreed or not, he had to follow the law as all sheriffs in state did.
Where is the outrage?
I’m sure at some point, if not already, ALADS will pick up the ball and legal fees for Mondayan.
This entwining story will be one of few that will go into the annals of infamy of LASD history along with Baca, Tanaka and Pandora’s Box.
Shocker! Emails show AV was pushing for Mandoyan to be rehired BEFORE his crack team of investigators determined he should be rehired.
Gee…I wonder if they felt a little pressure to “do the right thing” for the Boss?
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-sheriff-rehired-deputy-abuse-timeline-20190307-story.html
Oh snaps! You mean the incoming sheriff gave a chance to the outgoing sheriff to reconsider? ROFLMAO! Is that you Maya?
@Repeated History & LASD Apostle, how about renaming AV,”BLT” (Bi-Lingual Tanaka)? Walks like a duck, looks like a duck…….., geez “F the BOS”. If Bob & Ray are key advisors, you have to wonder how well they’re sleeping & if someone ought not buy them a pair of running shoes! As our platoon leader used to say in Vietnam, “Gentleman, the B-52’s are due in at 1600 hours, think it might be smart to be at some other damn place”. Of course it wasn’t said quite that way :).
Joe NoBuckles: Read your response that you wrote to me again. You and I agree on almost everything. Your response to me said if AV saw it coming, he would have delayed the reinstatement.
My point was, as the Sheriff, he SHOULD have seen this coming from 100 miles away. That’s my only point. Not back down, not be the BOS Bitch, but at least give yourself, your organization and your people the best chance of success.
You keep cheerleading this fight against the BOS. Kill kill kill. Why not manipulate manipulate manipulate the idiots on the board. Playing the artful game of politics is what true leaders do. The reinstatement was not artful, it was Fucking stupid.
A tactician would have waited for the benefit of EVERYONE, not just Mandoyan.
With the current ballyhoo aside, can anyone advise with contact information concerning the “Truth and Reconciliation Committee”.
I know two younger counterparts (deputies) who could definitely have their case fasttracked
which would appear to be, on the surface, mild in comparison to the current headlines concerning reinstatement/rehire with deputies.
The actual link:
https://laist.com/2019/03/06/carl_mandoyan_sheriff_alex_villanueva_supervisors.php
Negative LASD Apostle, he only gave the chance to the previous regime to fix the problem, before he had to do it. Telling someone to begin looking into a miscarriage of justice, or otherwise inappropriate action is more than right and fair.
Don’t be like Maya who puts things on her devalued paper and spins the facts. Maya is very creative to spin the facts according to the agenda.
Ownership, I totally understand what you say, yes, it may appear obvious to some that he may have made a mistake in rushing to rehire Carl. However, I still believe he is doing what many would not dare to do, out of fear of controversy. For that reason, I have much respect for Alex Villanueva, he does what is just, and deals with the consequences.
I will give credit to Maya, back in 2017, I learned who she was for the first time. Maya wrote and article about a few deputies, Tatreau, Johnson, and some others whom McDonnell promoted to the rank of commanders. I was very impressed with Maya she put McDonnell on blast for promoting, these deputies, who had used illegal force, had lied and almost got fired. Many on the media called for McDonnell to change his mind on the promotions, however, he refused and stood by his decision. I was happy Maya actually put McDonnell on blast, but it was the only time.
Maya was spoken to stay out of the way of McDonnell. After that she devoted herself to promote Jim McDonnell. Do you remember the BOS doing what they are doing now to Sheriff Villanueva? No, I don’t remember, because it did not happened. They were mute, because McDonnell was having crackers and tea with them as the news broke out.
So yes, the political mafia decides who they go after, right now they are after Alex Villanueva, I saw it coming prior to him actually winning.
The political mafia did not like he was speaking about justice, vindication, mercy, rehabilitation for deputies.
Joe NoBuckles: Appreciate and respect the response. Like I said, we pretty much agree on everything. Stay well.
I confused. What’s happening.
Wow – what a difference day makes…Ownership – Well said; completely agree with your remarks.
Appreciate the information that has been brought forward here. Troubling to say the least to think of corruption during the investigation process and people’s lives turned upside down in order to curry favor with the board or others. How in the hell could someone could sleep at night knowing they had railroaded another employee? While I still disagree with how AV handled this deal, in the end, hopefully the legal issues will get clarified expeditiously and all deserving a second look at their cases will get the opportunity they have been waiting for. Really looking forward to reading more about those that engaged in corruption curing the investigation process or in the assessment of discipline. They deserve to have the book and more thrown at them.
(Note: For first time readers see Santa’s Post @ https://witnessla.com/la-sheriff-villanuevas-perplexing-views-of-violence-in-the-la-county-jail-system-concerns-experts-causes-2-department-commanders-to-be-relieved-of-duty/#comments.)
Part 1 of 2 – “Pocahontas To The Rescue”
Office of Chief of Operations Larry Del Mese
Chief Del Mese: Well, if it isn’t the infamous Carl Mandoyan.
Deputy Carl Mandoyan: Infamous?
Del Mese: You aren’t being painted as exactly the “hero” type by the press.
Mandoyan: I guess you’re right.
Chief Ely Vera: You must feel like that little bird in a badminton game.
Mandoyan: Yeah, and I’m getting tired of it too.
Del Mese: Unfortunately, there’s not much you can do about it at this point.
Mandoyan: That’s what we were discussing last night – after I dropped off Alex.
Vera: Who’s “we?”
Mandoyan: I went to a meeting at the Armenian Community Center in Glendale and they had some attorneys there who think I have a case.
Del Mese: A case? Against who?
Mandoyan: Against everyone who is involved in this fucking thing. Beginning to end. I’ve been screwed over from the beginning – the firing, the rehire, the refire and now being rehired until June…..well kind’a rehired………if you call “rehired” having a job without pay.
(long pause)
Mandoyan: This fucking sucks and I had nothing to do with any of it!
Vera: What if it don’t work out after June – meaning the judge sides with the county. Do you and Alex have a “Plan B?”
Mandoyan: Plan B is to hire me as a “Field Deputy” – just like Baca hired Bishop Turner and that guy from Riviera, Mike Yamaki. Same thing. I’d have a badge, an office and a take-home car. And just like those fuckers, no duties!
(laughter)
Mandoyan: I’d just drive Alex around and hang around here……just like I do now.
(laughter)
Vera: But what about packing a piece?
Del Mese: Oh, Alex’d gave ’em a permit.
Mandoyan: Yeah, and all the “T” I want. I’d actually be making more than a regular Deputy. But I’d still not be “a Deputy!”
Vera: Bummer!
Mandoyan: Yeah, but I’m pissed about the way it’s been handled from the start and we’re going to make people pay!
Vera: You and these Armenians?
Mandoyan: Yeah, they think it’s a racist thing. They don’t think Mexicans have ever had any love for Armenians and they think that plays in to this whole thing too. I don’t think so, but I’m good with it. All I know is that I’ve been fucked over.
Unknown female voice: Carl, The Sheriff would like a word with you.
Mandoyan: I’ll be right back.
(pause)
Vera: Aw, fuck!
Del Mese: What?
Vera: I’m in the middle of this shit and now Carl is talking about suing everyone involved.
Del Mese: Cooooome ooooon!
Vera: Bullshit! Alex had me sign that reinstatement agreement saying the case had been checked out by some “independent expert” and it was clear that Carl had been screwed-over when he was fired. So I signed and gave it to Carl’s attorney at the time, Mike Goldfeder.
Del Mese: Goldfeder was Carl’s attorney?
Vera: Yeah, didn’t you know that?
Del Mese: Fuck! Goldfeder is the guy who was suppose to be the “independent expert” and reviewed the case then said the original firing was not substantiated!
Vera: So the “independent expert” was actually Carl’s attorney!
Del Mese: Shit, sounds like it!
Vera: And I signed the letter rehiring him!!!! Awwwwwwwwwwwww fuck, I’m really screwed!
(pause)
Mandoyan: The boss wanted me to know where we’re going. After listening to those assholes last night, I don’t think I can take any more.
Chief Tim Mirakami: I’ve got to wait for the Sheriff. Mind if I plop down in here?
Del Mese: No problem. So where did you drive Miss Daisy last night?
Deputy Mandoyan: He was at something called the LA County-City Governmental Democratic Caucus. It’s a meeting where all the LA Democratic big wigs sit around and try to figure out ways to fuck things up.
Del Mese: More.
Mandoyan: What?
Del Mese: Fuck things up MORE!
(laughter)
Mirakami: How did the Sheriff seem to get along with any supervisors who were there.
Mandoyan: That’s one of the things that pisses me off. Behind closed doors all those people act like it’s all an act. Just business – nothing personal. I don’t think Alex feels that way but he played along.
Chief Vera: Did they talk about how Denver just legalized pissing and shitting on sidewalks.
Del Mese: It’ll be a capital offense for ANY DUDE that shits on MY sidewalk!
(laughter)
Vera: I’ll bet that bunch of whack jobs were trying to come up with something to top Denver in the “Loon Column.”
Del Mese: Yeah, it seems like “progressive” politicians are always trying to see if they can one-up each other with stupid ideas.
Vera: You have to admit, our locals have a long way to go to outdo those crazy fuckers in that shithole they call San Francis…..
Del Mese: How ’bout this? Now that the Sacramento “brain trust” has come up with the brilliant idea of having a bullet train that runs between Bakersfield and Merced, maybe the locals should propose one that runs between Willowbrook and East LA.!
Vera: Yeah, they could call it ” ‘Brook to Barrio”
(laughter)
Del Mese: You could expand that to be ” ‘Brook to Barrio – What you don’t have when you get on, we’ll jack from you when you get off.”
((laughter)
Mandoyan: Actually, they were talking about us – the Sheriff’s Department.
Murakami: Really? How’s that?
Mandoyan: They were talking about the Board’s proposal of tearing down CJ to build a new jail just to treat 5150s.
Murakami: Did they discuss exactly what’s going to happen to all the displaced prisoners being housed at CJ during the 4 or 5 years it would take to tear down and build a new jail?
Mandoyan: Aah..no. I hadn’t thought about that.
Murakami: That would add 4-5,000 prisoners without beds to the jail system. And there sure as hell no place to stash ’em. Let alone the fact that the prisoners who are housed at CJ are not the kind we want housed just anywhere in the system. Could you picture those thugs at North or East Facilities? I shudder at the thought. I wonder if that bunch of Einsteins thought about THAT?
Del Mese: What did Alex say about it?
Mandoyan: Auh, I couldn’t really hear Alex from where I was in the back of the room.
Murakami: The Board HATES even the sound of the words “Central Jail”. They just want the place torn down, no matter what. No thoughts other than “just tear the fucking place down – they think it’s a house of torture and full of evil spirits. They’d approve any fucking plan to do away with the building and it’s “legacy.”
Vera: It does seem like it.
Murakami: It kind’a reminds me of what one of the Department execs once said about Firestone – that the Department should tear it down ,burn the soil and then spread salt on it.
(laughter)
Murakami: He was kidding at the time – he was a former Firestone guy – but the Board actually feels that way about CJ. I think they would probably add a step by having a piss-party after the salt is spread.
(laughter)
Del Mese: Yeah, they would then probably bring in Elizabeth Warren to do an Indian ritual to purify the ground.
(laughter)
Murakami: Was Garcetti there?
Mandoyan: Yeah.
Murakami: Well, remember his idea of having the homeless living in people’s garages to get them off the streets? Maybe we could house the CJ prisoners in people’s garages!
(laughter)
Del Mese: Yeah, they could use Ridley-Thomas’s garage, after all it was built by County workers!
(laughter)
Vera: Let them shit on HIS sidewalk!!
(laughter)
Unknown Female Voice: If you boys are done! (period of silence) Mr. Murakami, the Sheriff will see you now.
Murakami: Thank you.
End of Part 1 – Stay tuned for Part 2 – “The Specter of P.T.”
Cowboy:
According to ABC7 News the “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” is up & running & the Mandoyan case was the first case it heard.
The link:
https://abc7.com/fired-la-county-deputy-will-keep-gun-and-badge-for-now/5174762/
Thanks Joe
Much thanks!
Hey anonymous, where is Danny the Batman in all this.
He seems to hang out with AV and Carl on a regular basis.
I guess being forced to retire in leau of getting fired was no a good deal for him and now he wants to go back and embarrass the department.
Or maybe he will just lie to AV about how much the department needs him like he lied on police reports in patrol.
Alex is a CLOWN. Nothing more, nothing less.
…if that’s the case, the last two Sheriff’s were tweedle Dee and tweedle Dum.
A lot of folks seem to like and respect this “clown” as you call him…
Paul Tanaka and his coin holding campaign donors. Alex and his campaign donor. How are the two really different? On Wednesday, the California Supreme Court declined to hear a challenge to a new law implemented at the start of the year unsealing and allowing public and media access to certain types of records related to police conduct. Not a McDonnell fan, but public may hear some of the shenanigans deputies were fired for during his term. Like it or not, out of the 31 County of Los Angeles departments and 100,000 plus employees, we are the ones the public and the BOS hold to a higher standard. Alex and his advisors should have declined Carl’s help and donation on his campaign. It unfortunately has made a mess. This is not going to be good for the Department no matter how it turns out.
Fomous words from a white racist who most likely got fired and is butt hurt. You guys are the biggest clowns who’s crying and bitching because your gravy train got ousted. Deal with it nerd. Alex not only has the support of the department but also the community. He will be a multi term Sheriff. Put this in your snitch book. The more you dorks underestimate him and come at him, the more you’re going to lose. You hate to admit that a Latino has more common sense and smarts than some of stuffy, arrogant and pompous white people. Enjoy sitting at home mad that you didn’t get your way.
Not LASD, thousands of deputies thought McDonnell was a clown, hundreds believed he was a crooked criminal because all those deputies were injured, some beyond repair.
It appears Alex Villanueva has injured you, do you mind sharing what he did to you?
Burrito#1. Hey you guys are back on the front page of the Times today. You guys “rat pack” anybody lately. U know the old saying….you can take the man out of the ghetto…….
You meant to say “out of the barrio”….
Rumors are thing known to be true? Better call Webster’s according to them a rumor is a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth. I didn’t like Jim, but I think your dislike is clouding your good judgement . If you have the proof, I’m sure the press would love to have. You could be the hero to save Alex from the dumpster fire he started . Right now he’s just another Paul.
@Time to Clean House, your closing sentence is spot on, the Mandoyan decision has no good ending. Our new Sheriff was an outlier in his three decade career, neither getting along or going along. He & others want to characterize that as a badge of honor because obviously he was swimming against a stream of bigotry & management mis & malfeasance under both Sherman Block, Lee Baca & James McDonnell. The commonly held belief that the cream rises to the top in a long tenure but AV only got to be solid whole milk or maybe even half & half, the lieutenant rank is solid after all. His history says outlier & one that is evidencing in tumult in his first 90 days. He seems driven by past grievances, serious allegations of conspiracies & is championing an us vs them theme. I speak only for myself but the approach makes me uncomfortable as I think the adults in the room are thinking “grow the F up & get to managing your considerable tasks”. You want to help the deputies, how about a long view of establishing some personal credibility rather than crashing the entire china shop by charging at the past & the political differences your encountering.
As to Mandoyan, there are very different views but the one that sticks is that it’s controversial in a big way. The why of the controversy is plain, the reinstatement or rehire of a deputy fired by the previous Sheriff several years prior & in an apparent unilateral way. Although it is argued that Mandoyan was unfairly fired & his return based in a settlement, the evidence runs strongly the other way. The evidence cited in his behalf centers on the force of the Sheriff’s personal view & the so called “independent” review a sham. Any investigator would ask obvious questions, especially along the lines of personal gain, undue influence, etc., because it doesn’t pass the smell test. I ask, knowing what we now know about Mandoyan, would he pass a background to be hired? You think he’d get past the psych interview if he admitted to what we know? Pass the polygraph? If you’re allowed to argue that some of the things that were learned were extralegal I guess that may give you a part way out. The POST Commission standards require a background & in this case likely an update because he was fired, was that done? Bottom line, poorly played at best & perhaps an example of the future.
Is this Carl or Ted Yabba Dabba Doo
@Time to Clean House
I guess you have a crystal ball or you’re friends with Miriam Crinsky and Maya Lau… Hahaha… GTFOH Nerd…
Chinga tu’madre ya old white pendejo. Enjoy your retirement, leave the Policing to us ese. Your generation is all but gone
@ The Past, I agree with you 100 % as does many others.
Surprisingly many of the adults in this conversation refuse to call it what it really is, “Bullshit”. We all know that even with wings, this crap does not fly.
I’ll bet next paycheck that other ROD personnel within LASD including civilians and C.A.’s have twisted feelings as they wait this out even further.
Buckle your seat belts and get popcorn & licorice as this plays itself out.
Not a good look or fit for LASD
Your response only shows who needs to grow up here unfortunately.
Some homework for Zev and the BOS:
Returning to Long-form Propaganda by the LA County Establishment, former BOS Zev Yaroslavsky has entered the fray to defend a few “principles.” His editorial in today’s (March 8, 2019) LA Times may be found here: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-yaroslavsky-los-angeles-sheriff-villanueva-20190308-story.html Since this editorial bears on the article at the head of this thread, a few brief observations.
Zev Yaroslavsky: “At stake are three fundamental principles.”
Zev Yaroslavsky: “First, law enforcement personnel must lawfully perform their duties. The most effective way to insure that is to hold them accountable when they don’t. When officers transgress enough to warrant discharge, and are then reinstated, it sends a dangerous message to the troops: “Watch what we do, not what we say.” This undermines the very credibility of the department’s stated expectations. That is unacceptable in our democracy.”
[Charlie Unit: Sheriff Villanueva – and all California sheriffs – would agree with Zev’s first two sentences. But Zev then makes a clever, question-begging (circular) move for which he must be upbraided. It begins with the third sentence – “When officers transgress [begin italics] enough to warrant discharge [end italics] . . .” This is the whole point of disagreement and contest: what standards are being used to “warrant discharge.” Zev takes it at face value that the McDonnell-Teran regime was operating legally and ethically in personnel issues. That cannot be taken for granted; that is the very thing in dispute. The McDonnell-Teran administration appears to have so utterly botched and violated the “enough to warrant discharge” standard for many LASD deputies’ “lawfully performing their duties,” as to have possibly conspired to violate the federal labor and civil rights of dozens of deputies. (For example, we have been informed in correspondence in these pages and elsewhere that that is presently being investigated.) In essence, the McDonnell-Teran reaction in correcting the egregious Baca-Tanaka administrative errors and corruption, over-corrected the previous subjectivism NOT with a clear and objective “enough to warrant discharge” standard, as Zev Yaroslavsky believes, but a thoroughly discredited subjectivism in a seek and destroy mission against line deputies, supervisors, and managers, while at the same time promoting Baca-Tanaka acolytes who pledge allegiance to McDonnell.
Along comes Alex Villanueva, perfectly transparent to the public pledging to institute a thorough reform of the so-called McDonnell-Teran reforms and reformers, and campaign on a truth and reconciliation policy (among other policies). The majority of citizens of Los Angeles County agreed with Villanueva and ousted, one might say vanquished, the McDonnell-Teran regime in a HISTORIC election. (Need I go into why this was a historic election, Zev? Or are you and the LA Times satisfied in referring to the election as Villanueva having “narrowly defeated McDonnell” as though Villanueva had no public-supported reform mandate? That mandate’s strengths and weaknesses may be debated on particulars here or there, but denying there was a rejection of McDonnell-Teran reform and an affirmation and public mandate for Villanueva’s reform is a mistake.)
Zev then finishes the sentence: “and are then reinstated, it sends a dangerous message to the troops…” Zev’s mistake is assuming that the so-called reforms under which many LASD deputies were fired and over-disciplined, were objectively valid and just in the first place. That kind of circular reasoning confuses and conflates the issue. The defeater for Zev’s position is the fact that many firings of LASD deputies were done in ways that violated the labor and civil rights of those deputies. Procedural errors and errors of fact are now being re-litigated, properly so. Reform under those conditions is no reform at all. It is de-formity.
So, here is one counter argument to Zev Yaroslavsky:
(1) If there were widespread violations of labor and civil rights of LASD personnel during (and-due-to) the McDonnell-Teran reform design and implantation,
(2) and such widespread violations of labor and civil rights of LASD personnel would be an injustice requiring remedy and correction (e.g., reinstatement being one possible remedy),
then (3) those McDonnell-Teran reforms are in relevant part invalid and require new reforms that avoid such harms,
and (4) Sheriff Villanueva is within his constitutional and elected leadership rights to reform the prior reforms, including the reinstatement of LASD personnel sufficiently harmed under (1).
There are, of course, arguments for Villanueva’s various reforms, but that is not the case I’m making here. My only point now is that (1)-(4) are or would be sufficient reasons to clear the way for Villanueva to proceed with constitutional reforms of his own. If (1) – (4) are in fact the case, then Sheriff Villanueva has both an ethical and legal duty to reinstate certain LASD personnel. Hence, far from flaunting ethics and constitutional law, Sheriff Villanueva would be MODELING ethics and constitutional law by correcting the extremes of McDonnell-Teran. And if this is so, then the present BOS and ol Zev are behaving unethically in resisting Sheriff Villanueva’s reform of the McDonnell-Teran deformities.
So, based on a fallacy, Zev then lurches into alleged injuries to (a) department credibility and (b) infringement of democracy. This, of course is nonsense. Zev knows very well how to construct a proper argument without constructing it atop a massive logical fallacy. We know he has nothing important in this paragraph to say because his two-level conclusions rely on a two-level casuistry. Rather pathetic.]
Zev Yaroslavsky: “Second, the sheriff is obligated to accept and respect civilian oversight. While he has significant powers, so do the Board of Supervisors and the Civil Service Commission. He is not a dictator and can’t assume powers that he doesn’t legally have. Making a virtue of flouting the county charter and its civilian governing body is something that even the most egomaniacal law enforcement chiefs — and we’ve had a few — would have thought twice about.”
[Charlie Unit: A lot may be said here, but will keep it brief. There’s not even an attempt at a proper argument. These sentences appear to be mere emotional rantings of a guy who should have hung up his public commenting spurs decades ago. There are more valid ways of constructing counter arguments to Sheriff Villanueva’s policy(ies). (I suspect he has his own ‘murder board’ to examine the counter arguments.) When one unfairly mischaracterizes an opponent’s motives and actions in these kinds of ways – in this case those of Sheriff Villanueva – it signals a cognitive bias that shreds any good faith effort at being intellectually virtuous (e.g., love of truth and its constant pursuit, intellectual courage and humility, valuing reason and proper emotion, integrity, practical wisdom, good judgement). Zev’s skin in the game is his ontological certainty in believing his reforms were the sin qua non of all possible reforms of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department. This position does not have the warrant he thinks it does; it is arrogant, hypocritical, and empirically untrue.]
Zev Yaroslavsky: “Finally, the sheriff and his subordinates must be faithful to their oath of office; to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the state of California” and to “bear true faith and allegiance” to them. Villanueva recently asserted that the reforms that were instituted by the Citizens’ Commission are a “social experiment” gone awry. The experiment to which he refers is the U.S. Constitution. He can either get on board with it or get out of the way.”
[Charlie Unit: Here we have it. Ol Zev, just like the present LA County Board of Supervisors, believes that there cannot be any possibility of inadequacy, failure, or foundering collapse of their version of reform. So, when the duly elected Sheriff of Los Angeles County signals that those reforms are, in fact, leading to systemic failures and productive losses a good deal greater than their successes or gains (i.e., costs are building within the organization), and threatening the organization’s constitutional mission, he is essentially indicating (with good reason) that the voodoo and tyrannical remedies/reforms of McDonnell-Teran are killing the organization they (allegedly) sought to strengthen. What does reason-driven decision making tell us to do in such a case? Continue to fail? How about use intelligence to move in a different reform direction—still reforming, yet using practical wisdom (born of reality not Ivory tower – Vassar College Ms. Lau- voodoo), experience, and research to properly diagnose the problem and remedy it accordingly?
Let’s turn the argument around on our colleague Zev: If the LASD as an LEA committed to constitutional policing, cannot even police its own management against the pattern and practice of deprivation of labor and civil rights against its deputies, then what good are those so-called reforms Yaroslavsky is piping on about?
What Zev and the present BOS cannot fathom due to their gaping cognitive biases is that they misdiagnosed the nature of the problem to begin with. Their own malpractice, coupled to a box-of-rocks dull-witted, vindictive couple of personalities, launched into reform efforts without knowing the problem from the ground up, in multiple dimensions and information sources. They knee-jerked a top-down solution to a complex, dynamic problem. Hence, neither Zev and his posse of BOS—LA Times—LA Political Establishment, nor the McDonnell-Teran people, can be trusted to provide any sound advice on reform because THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS TO BEGIN WITH. As such they have disqualified themselves on this subject. They appear to be in legacy-protection mode of operation, which if continued would do great long-term harm to LASD as a constitutional-policing organization. Instead of seen as heroes, these people are FAILURES. They shouldn’t be treated with contempt (I myself am holding back as much as I can), because that is an unconstructive emotion. They should simply be ignored until they trade their arrogance for intellectual humility; confess that they could in fact be wrong about some of their reforms. Only then might their intellects be redeemable.
Fortunately, Sheriff Alex Villanueva knows a great deal about the problem, and appears to be moving the Department toward solutions that will/could work. I have argued many times that he needs the space of time – 6-12 months – to try out his own solutions in good faith.]
Carl doesn’t appear on the contribution lists. In fact, neither do most of the promotees. Try a new theory, that one won’t work.
They only respect the CLOWN because he is such TOOL.
I went through two bowls of popcorn reading all these insightful comments.
There is an old saying: “You can’t make chicken soup out of chicken shit.” The people who are trying to defend Sheriff Villanueva’s decision to rehire Carl Mandoyan under the circumstances that have emerged are trying to do just that.
Bad decision, period. Bad timing, bad “first case” and bad response to criticism. Defend it all you want but it is what it is. The BOS is not going to let this go and as more facts emerge, fuel is being added to the fire.
And don’t think for one moment that this judge’s temporary ruling is anything but temporary. Just look at what he said:”each county department head has the authority to hire ELIGIBLE (emphasis added) people.” Now reflect on what the County said in their letters to the Sheriff and Mandoyan: “The County Charter and the Los Angeles County Civil Service Rules require that all classified positions be filled from the current eligible civil service list.” The letter also says Mandoyan was not any such list nor was his hire approved by the County Director of Personnel – also a County Charter requirement. Now, I ask you: How do you think all this is going to shake out?
Taking emotion out of this, it is clear how this will end up and not good for Mr. Mandoyan. Even worse are those who had cases in which there were terminations of a much more dubious nature – Sheriff Villanueva actually alluded to them himself in some of his post blow-up statements. Those are the folks who will get the short end of the stick in all of this because they might have had a fighting chance, had this process been allowed to develop and mature in a logical and well thought-out manner. They are going to be dead in the water when the smoke clears with the Mandoyan case.
One does no know if the Sheriff is acting on his own or is taking advice from his inner circle. Either way, he should rethink how he makes his decisions if he does not want to end up in controversy after controversy. I imagine he wants to be more than a one-term Sheriff, but the way he’s started it sure looks like it will take more than being a Democrat and having an Hispanic surname in 2022 to be re-elected because people I know not associated with the LASD keep asking me “What’s WRONG with that guy?” Those are the voters who normally vote the incumbent Sheriff back in office. If I were Alex, I’d be thinking about those voters the next time he doesn’t listen to good advice.
Folks:
http://www.scpr.org has more on all of this; also, scroll to its story on the ELA situation.
Re the contribution list, see attached.
http://efs.lacounty.gov/public_search_results.cfm?rept_type=ALLCon
http://rrcc.lacounty.gov/camp/cand_page.cfm?GetCand.name_id=96&nid=96&eid=4100
That top link above doesn’t appear to be working. You can find campaign donor information by last name that is relevant to this discussion on the LA County Registrar Recorder Campaign Finance Reports page:
http://efs.lacounty.gov/public_search.cfm?pubsearchstep=2&rept_type=ALLCon
No one cares about any of this but you idiots. Was at an event today with normal people and no one knew any of this nonsense.
Pretty much sums it up.
Trump is my president and Villanueva is my Sheriff.
Nuff said bitches!!!
Burrito#1. Good to hear from you again. Hope all is well. Speaking of mothers, I’m sure urs is very proud of her little gangster. I see u still haven’t learned to speak English. U must have received your GED from an LAUSD school. Take care. I will put some money on your books.
Where was Zev Yaroslavsky’s list of guiding principles during all the years he held office on the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors?
When did Zev ever make an effort at effective oversight while Sheriff Lee Baca was running LASD into the ground?
“Just Sayin,” excellent points. Particularly about the deps who legitimately should NOT have been fired and may now be watching their chances disappear in the Mandoyan train wreck.
“Charlie Unit,” you and others are taking great pains to pick apart the criticisms of AV’s MANY mistakes. But you’re missing the big picture. It is UNPRECEDENTED for a Sheriff to make this many enemies in so short a time. It’s particularly unusual to alienate the very people who got him elected. He has, in a VERY short time, alienated:
-His supporters (liberal groups like the ACLU, pro-illegal immigrant groups, anti-jail groups)
-Civilian oversight groups (COC, DOJ, OIG)
-Board of Supervisors and the CEO
-His command staff (except the few who’ve been promoted two or three ranks) who’ll leak to the media
-The MEDIA (who now are beginning a steady stream of negative stories, like ELA) and have caught on
to his campaign flim-flam (like ICE out of the jails….kinda).
Tweet from Supervisor Hahn:
@SupJaniceHahn Mar 7
“Personally, I have a real problem with a commission made up of three men who don’t find it disturbing that a deputy tried to break into his ex-girlfriend’s apartment.” (Gross, Vera and Murakami)
As for Mandoyan’s contributions:
09/01/18 MARINE MANDOYAN
(Manager, Los Angeles International Airport)
1397275 – VILLANUEVA FOR LOS ANGELES SHERIFF 2018 A – Monetary
(IND – Individual)
[Period: 07/01/18-09/22/18]
$1,500.00
09/01/18 PETER MANDOYAN
(Financial Consultant, Self-Employed – No Separate Business Name)
1397275 – VILLANUEVA FOR LOS ANGELES SHERIFF 2018 A – Monetary
(IND – Individual)
[Period: 07/01/18-09/22/18]
$1,500.00
One more of the “thousand cuts” in today’s Times:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-sheriff-villanueva-truth-reconciliation-20190309-story.html
I’ve seen this before (Baca-Tanaka). He’ll be faced with the decision of NOT addressing these accusations (bad idea) or addressing them and creating more questions. It’ll take up more and more of his valuable time as important Department matters get put on hold.
The stories won’t stop, as people within the Department continue to leak info to the media.
You should read the actual court transcripts on the hearing. Anthony Pellicano’s attorney is now defending the Board of Supervisors, and apparently not doing to well. The county’s own admissions regarding Villanueva’s authority as sheriff was used against them, so if all you have is one employee rehire that is not going to hold water for long.
Get a grip on yourself, the voters who normally vote the incumbent did not vote for Villanueva in the first place. This issue is not holding water in 2022, in spite of the Times’ best efforts.
Today’s LAT Editorial, linked by LASD Apostle, it the most brutal Editorial I have ever read. They flat out call AV a liar, and don’t pull a punch. He and his advisors own every bit of this. Reading the FB posts, “the troops” encourage the Sheriff to dig in and stay the course. What fools.
Charlie Unit, your written article is as clear as water. The issue is very simple. Yet all these Alex Villanueva haters are making it too complicated, an turning it, into a clusterfuck.
Emotional people, make problems appear bigger than they are.
Very discerning commentary, all the more powerful by virtue of factual support and contrasted with the inflammatory rhetoric/unsupported accusations made by the AV cheerleaders. Thanks for taking the time apostle to present the view shared by so many of the folks I talk to daily, but don’t comment on this forum. As someone commented above about the view of the adults in the room, I feel like your reasoned and grounded approach is a breath of fresh air in this comments. Your work (and research) is much appreciated.
Thanks Ron Hernandez. for leading the charge at ALADS, I know you have your paws in this.
You can’t blame PPOA for this one.
Thanks for your insight Brian Mariguchi, et all.
GTFOH dorks. You pissed away 800k of your members money and now trying to save face. Read it here… No one gives a shit about your drawn out, rambling posts.
(Note some of my posts have been delayed recently.)
LASD Apostle,
Given the over-lengthy piece I posted yesterday, I do have to practice what I preach (correction re that previous post: sine qua non, not sin qua non). Nothing in my post of yesterday is defeated by the LA Times editorial today, chiefly because the argument I was making was a narrow one that may be made for any new, similarly situated reform oriented sheriff who is confronted by a sclerotic establishment. Zev and the BOS remain on the ethical hook. I know that you know this distinction because you are a smart guy. But it doesn’t take a smart or attentive fella or gal to know what my argument was doing–any casual reader would see it immediately.
In a technical sense, the LA Times Editorial Board constructed a strong argument today, wherein conclusions drawn (if a bit hyperbolic) from the premises might be found reasonable on their face. Indeed, not knowing anything else about the Times or Sheriff Villanueva an otherwise fair minded person at LAX passing through town might slip in their critical faculties and epistemic duties and say, ‘wow, LA’s sheriff sure looks bad.’ Yet you were right to draw attention to the editorial. Let’s continue to have a full throated, multi-level debate–it only makes Los Angeles County stronger (less fragile), not weaker. New York City is famous for this shit.
You claim that I do not see the big picture. I respectfully disagree. All of this political rigamarole is a sign of health and vitality. Eventually, I think you’ll see it too. Over time a working truce will develop and people can stop panicking and jumping off of downtown buildings. But that truce requires that the LA Establishment make some concessions compatible with Sheriff Villanueva’s electoral program.
However, the questions at issue are, are the premises of the Times editorial true, and if so, are there reasonable explanations that mitigate the interpretation the Times is making in its claims? We started in law enforcement a long time ago. We know the difference between a claim or allegation and the actual reality to which the claim or allegation purportedly refers. A claim or set of claims, like the Los Angeles Times is making in today’s editorial, has an initial classification as a ‘potential truth bearer.’ The claim itself (i.e., the LA Times editorial) does not make itself true; the claim doesn’t magically become true because the LA Times or anyone else says its true. No. That is not how truth works. As good investigators we ask, ‘Well, if a claim is a ‘potential truth bearer,’ what makes a claim true or false?’ Realists like us would answer (correctly) that the truth maker of virtually any claim is objective reality itself (there are some qualifiers I won’t go into), the “facts” of reality (a fact is defined as a states of affairs that obtains in reality). The “facts” of reality are uncovered as best as possible, often through a thorough and sometimes painstaking process. (I won’t go into this part of it either. Many readers already know that process.)
Now, we have a serious claim, as you have noted, from the LA Times Editorial Board about Sheriff Villanueva. That claim right now is merely a ‘potential truth bearer’ until such time as the specific elements of the claim are found to correspond to objective reality such that reality itself (not beliefs about reality) MAKES that potential truth bearer true or false (e.g., a fact having occurred or is occurring in reality). So, when it comes to these kinds of evidentiary claims centered around facts (objective reality), good investigators will remain open minded until they learn about and uncover all of the evidence that can possibly be known, as resources permit. We also know from experience that sometimes claims, even sensational claims, do not correspond with objective reality (e.g., ‘hands up, don’t shoot’). The claim, ‘Sheriff Villanueva lied,’ could end up being like that.
Where does this leave us? Apostle, you have said: “[The sheriff will] be faced with the decision of NOT addressing these accusations (bad idea) or addressing them and creating more questions.” There may very well be a reasonable explanation that mitigates or proves false the Times’ claims, allegations, or “accusations.” We don’t yet know. Intellectual virtue urges caution.
I appreciate your perspective and arguments, and those of others. They are often formidable and not so easily dismissable or overcome. However, my entire point has largely been to ensure a fair process for Sheriff Villanueva and his team to get his reform(s) off the ground. I’m not a connected guy and any “pick[ing] apart the criticisms of AV’s MANY mistakes” has been done — though imperfectly on my part — to ensure that umpires make a reasonable effort to call balls and strikes as they are, not as we wish them to be. Leaving room for recognizing that some mistakes are not corruption, I cannot and will not tolerate LA County Establishment corruption, or any corruption. I defined ‘corruption’ in an earlier post.
One of the Many,
Admittedly, it is alluring to go for the bum-rush, quick-fix, eyebrow-raising rhetoric drawn from empirical lists that don’t actually do as much work as their authors think, rather than take one’s time, carefully examine the empirical list in detail, and learn to avoid the tricks, traps, and fallacies of the magicians. The magician’s method is easier to pull off in a forum like this. But once it has gone through a grinder, little of the original power remains. Have got to run. Be well.
Okay LASD Apostle, your point is taken…you don’t believe defending one deputy is worth making an enemy, or tow.
Well, you piece of work, I would take a bullet for another deputy. So many deputies with the same mentality as you, who would rather hide, avoid writing a memo or simply speaking up for another of your kind, so listening to you gets me sick.
Okay LASD Apostle, your point is taken…you don’t believe defending one deputy is worth making an enemy, or tow.
Well, you piece of work, I would take a bullet for another deputy. So many deputies with the same mentality as you, who would rather hide, avoid writing a memo or simply speaking up for another of your kind, so listening to you gets me sick.
I hope we eventually know who you are, then looking at your face will make sense all your written trash.
I know how it will end, as it should. The sheriff has the authority to rehire anyone period. He has also the authority to fire you if he wishes and send you to the civil service to fight for your job.
How would you like the sheriff finding out who all these haters here are, spreading lies, and then the sheriff firing you all? Who would win eventually? Maybe you…. but in the meantime, you were out of work for a few years….
I call on the sheriff to start acting like the McDonnell/Teran regime, fire a few of these guys here commenting, for violation of the MPP 3-01/030.05 General Behavior, 3-01/050.10 Professional conduct. Just like McDonnell said at that Compton briefing, that he was going to fire a lot of people, to set the tone, to send a message, well knowing most deputies were going to regain their jobs. Jim McDonnell fires a lot of deputies and goes to the BOS requesting that all the civil service commissioners be replaced and be placed on notice to rehire any fired deputies.
The most fired deputies the merrier, that would really send a message to all deputies, and the message of reform to the community. So, the sheriff should start firing all theses commentators to send a message, who cares. All haters here think it is okay, as long as it is not them.
Jim McDonnell fires a lot of deputies and goes to the BOS requesting that all the civil service commissioners be replaced and be placed on notice to NOT rehire any fired deputies.
The Sheriff is in desperate need of a fixer, without delay.
” – and we’ve had a few-”
I specifically take issue with the above phrase contained within the following statement from Yaroslavky’s editorial:
“….Making a virtue of flouting the county charter and its civilian governing body is something that even the most egomaniacal law enforcement chiefs — and we’ve had a few — would have thought twice about.”
Law enforcement chiefs, in this case, refers to the Sheriff of Los Angeles County.
From 1994, the point which Zev took office on the Board of Supervisors, up until today, there has been 5 individuals who have held the office of Sheriff of L.A. County –
Block, Baca, Scott, McDonnell, Villanueva.
Only 1 of the 5 was demonstrably egomaniacal.
Yarosalavsky would like to confuse the issue by referring to a few who were egomaniacal; however, there was only one – Leroy Baca.
Zev Yaroslavsky was on the BOS from Baca’s first day as Sheriff until his last.
And Baca didn’t waste time with thinking twice about flouting charters and basic ethics.
Due in great part to Zev and his fellow Supervisors keeping their heads conveniently buried in the sand unless the local media raised such a ruckus over some move by the Sheriff which forced them to at least mouth some platitude of concern.
Zev would prefer that we blur our memory of egomaniac Baca’s almost 16 year legacy at LASD.
Because that legacy also belongs to Zev Yaroslavsky.
Zev – when he served on the L.A. City Council earned a reputation as fearless critic of LAPD abuses.
Zev turned the heat all the way down when he joined the BOS.
Zev can’t admit to himself that he had a big office-holder crush on Guru Lee for his first 12 years as Sheriff.
And Zev carries an equal or greater responsibility than anyone for engineering Baca’s resignation and the pre-ordained ascendance of McDonnell as the consensus choice fresh eyes for LASD.
from zevyaroslavsky.com
Zev’s Blog posted 9/19/13
A Time to Stay the Course
“…….The strongest argument against a new oversight commission is simply that it would be powerless to force changes within the Sheriff’s Department. And, despite the suggestions of the measure’s backers, the Los Angeles Police Department does not provide us with a model for civilian governance.
The sheriff is publicly elected, making him directly accountable to voters every four years. Although the Board of Supervisors holds the purse strings, state law expressly gives the sheriff here and in counties across the state wide control over the operations of their departments. The LAPD chief, on the other hand, is politically-appointed and, under the city charter, reports directly to a five-member Board of Police Commissioners, which governs the department.
In their final report, the jail commission pointedly noted the difference between the two law enforcement agencies, saying that “a civilian jail commission would not have any legal authority over the Sheriff’s Department absent enabling [state] legislation.” The probability of getting such legislation is, at best, remote. In other words, the proposed commission would amount to little more than a soapbox for the panelists—and a disappointment for those of us committed to a top-to-bottom cultural change……”
noe buddy,
You are a fine investigator. Catching Zev with his proverbial pants down reminds me of a vice guy I knew in the 1980s who also did good work.
Zev (8-5-14): “These are the indisputable facts: the proposed sheriff’s oversight commission would have no real power, no legal investigative authority, only limited access to sensitive department materials and no meaningful way to implement any recommendations it might make. **The state constitution grants great power to the Sheriff, and he is not subordinate to the Board of Supervisors. And this Board cannot delegate powers to a commission that the Board itself does not possess.**” (Zev Yaroslavsky: http://192.241.223.29/blog/in-the-interest-of-real-oversight)
I hope that the “all or nothing” school of AV supporters will realize that decent and dedicated people that voted for this Sheriff can and have disagreed with some of his early moves. Concerns about cronyism and poor judgement do not equate to throwing a Deputy to the wolves to avoid making an enemy or two. As Deputies are expected to behave in a professional manner and treat all people fairly, so is the Sheriff.
This was clearly avoidable bullshit; a controversial set of circs as the trial run reinstatement case, reinstatement of someone active on the campaign – in less than a month after the Sheriff takes office, reinstatement prior to the establishment of a vetted process afforded to all in a fair manner, subject of the reinstatement is jumped ahead of those that have waited far longer and a pissing contest with the Board.
The Sheriff must maintain a working relationship with the managing entity of the county. He doesn’t have to cave to them but he does need to learn how to interact with them for the benefit of the agency.
A child could have seen this train wreck coming. In the end, no one’s personal opinions matter. Like it or not, this is a mess and it has to be fixed. Hopefully the Sheriff’s closest supporters will start presenting some ideas that he can use to back out of this cluster.
Noe: This is quite important. Zev and all the other past and current members of the BOS better pray that Sheriff AV doesn’t order an audit of how many friends and relatives now work for the county and LASD under the now defunct Friends of the Sheriff (FOS) program instituted by Lee Baca. Recall when the news reported on the illegal manner on how politically connected applicants went to the front of the line and got hired? Waldie denied the program and then shut it down, supposedly. Why didn’t the BOS complain and have this illegal hiring, ordered by the sheriff, stopped by the court. Because the sheriff can hire anyone he wants!
Just: You’re not AV and you never will be. When would it be a good time to undue and injustice?
@Charlie Unit. As painful as your stuff is to read, you latest post re the LA Times editorial was at least good for a laugh. You calling ANYONE “hyperbolic” is a coffee-spitter. Dude, it takes one to know one. You spent thousands of key strokes saying that in their editorial, the Times did not make their case. Yet you never refuted one thing they said. Just a lot of smoke and mirrors about “what is truth” (you sound like Lee Baca pontificating on the meaning of creation).
I was hoping you would take their editorial apart point by point. Like: Did AV announce the the world he was going to establish a Truth and Conciliation Commission after taking advice from a number of entities? Yes or No. Simple. Then you might ask: Was the Commission suppose to operate in an open and transparent way? Yes or No. You could have then asked: Did he wait for that advice in establishing this Commission? Yes or No. See how easy that was. Then: You might have asked: Did the public have any knowledge that the Commission had been established and met prior to the Times exposing the rehire of Mr Mandoyan? Yes of No. You could then asked: Was AV telling the truth when he said he STARTED the process to rehire Mr Mandoyan in the first week of his administration? Yes or No.
Simply put those were the points the Times made in calling Sheriff Villanueva an liar. If the answer to these questions (and these answers are not really debatable as to “what is the truth”- so hold your key strokes),you can establish if, in fact, calling Sheriff Villanueva a liar, is a valid accusation or not.
Now, type away.
Save a Keystroke,
I’m a little surprised at your post. Do I need to do everything? I set the table for you or someone else to advance the questions, which you did very well. I see the Socratic method still works. Well done.
So the word on the street is the Sheriff moved his office back to Monterey Park. Supposedly he is only working 4 to 5 hours a day, four days a week. If this is true, what kind of example is he sending to the Department? And, why did he run for Sheriff if he decided to take the job and retire in office? Looking for some clarification. Maybe Mr. Mandoyan could answer as his driver.
Could it be possible the sheriff simply requested the previous administration to take a shot at addressing a wrong on their way out? Oh the horrors! There are literally hundreds of cases that will be heard, and what did all those deputies do to improve the chances they would get a second chance? Nothing.
Until the Times can come up with some actual facts regarding corruption, Villanueva shouldn’t lose sleep over their opinion. After all, this is the same crowd that endorsed Baca year after year AND endorsed McDonnell in spite of knowing what a failure they both were.
Well said fed up, the Times knows of a few cases, where the court already ruled sheriff McDonnell violated the constitutional rights of deputies, by coaching witnesses, by destroying and concealing evidence.
They have not written anything about it, nor done any investigative journalism, nothing.
The other day I put them on blast on their website about it, they responded by blocking me from commenting.
The LA Times is not a news paper it is an organization dedicated to activism. The BOS is the same way, they don’t believe in justice for all, not for deputies, that is for sure.
So the sheriff an elected official who run on a campaign, denouncing such injustice, wanting to fix it is being blocked by the media and the political mafia what is there to do???
Joe NoBuck – You don’t repair injustice by more injustice. What to do is develop well thought out, ethical review systems in conduction with county counsel and the county director of personnel that will truly help those victimized by the prior regime. What you do next is present initial cases that clearly support inappropriate disciplinary action to gain some accord and understanding, so the process can actually gain acceptance and work. During all this time, the Sheriff and his top brass should be meeting with others to promote understanding of the process to counter the inevitable inflammatory attacks that will occur. What you don’t do is, well, what he did.
Noe;
Great job! But, is anyone surprised at the hypocrisy?
You may have to expound on your idea of what injustice Villanueva committed, because I do not see it. Righting a wrong is a good thing in my book. From what I’ve gleaned, our sheriff has actually gone to the OIG and the COC to hammer out the details of the process, which is modeled after Case Review, something the LASD has done for a long time.
What you fail to understand is that there is no “gaining” of accord, understanding, or acceptance for a political establishment that is clearly operating under a unified front to thwart the reform efforts of the sheriff. The political establishment, as in the BOS, McDonnell, Teran, et al, created this massive quagmire to create the illusion of reform, all at the expense of due process. Now Villanueva is unraveling their misdeeds, and of course they are going to be howling like a banshee because his efforts expose their corruption. You actually think they would somehow accept his efforts if presented in a certain way? Don’t be naïve, neither they nor the LA Times will ever accept the upstart who dethroned their appointed sheriff.
The Mandoyan situation is indirectly related to SB 1421. in that it allows transparency to either weaken or embolden Mondayan’s case.
In spite of what’s being told in the open, imagine what is not being told behind the scenes with many unanswered questions.
The hard questions from many is why Mandoyan was selected first and why him at all?
Who is the ultimate governing body to fire and hire?
What factional information is used to support the final decision?
Is there an appeals process and is it applicable to his specific charges or case?
As with LASD’s Pandora’s Box, the connection between Mandoyan and Villanueva along with the urgency to reinstate will ultimately be exposed only in the end.
Fed Up – I agree that righting the wrongs of the past is a good thing. No issue there. I feel for every one of those deputies that were treated inappropriately. In terms AV, I supported him and still hope he is successful in making some meaningful changes. That said, I believe for all the reasons shared by many others, that he botched the Mandoyan reinstatement. I think the impropriety there, or injustice if you will, is pretty clear. It reeked of political payback versus the man being part of a legit process.
As a reform candidate and during these politically bizarre times, AV should have to known better. I still maintain that a more strategic approach and taking the time to develop some alliances is not only possible but critical to his success. Whether those alliances are directly with the Board or people with political sway in the county that could help him with the Board, he needs help.
This would be all the more important if it’s true as you have opined, that the Board and the LAT will never support him. If you think just because Deputies support him that he can take on the county establishment alone and prevail, we’ll have to agree to disagree. He may win a battle here and there but will lose the war.
If the Sheriff has initiated the establishment of a fair reinstatement process in conjunction with county counsel and the OIG as you’ve heard, that’s a good step forward. Let’s hope for better news moving forward.
Joe NoBuckles;
Your point about the LA Times is spot and, sadly, true of almost every news outlet.
Unbiased journalism is dead. They are all commentaries with obvious progressive agendas disguising themselves as news outlets.
How they look into the mirror is beyond me.
People slam Fox News, yet regulars like Juan Williams, Ann Coulter, Shepard Smith and Geraldo Rivera call Trump/Republicans out on a daily basis.
CNN and WLA should be ashamed, but sadly they will never have the guts to report both sides of any issue.
Hey 10-8, you say the following:
“I feel for every one of those deputies that were treated inappropriately”.
Are you serious, inappropriately? So, you think having deputies arrested and tried, by violating their constitutional rights, by concealing and destroying exculpatory evidence and no evidence a crime was committed is an appropriate?
Wow, to me that is criminal and there should be more than interest on the part of the BOS to investigate and the LA Times to report, yet they know about it, have you read any of that in the LA Times?
It is very interesting that you minimize the framing of deputies for political gain as inappropriate. I hope you or your family are never framed by the police, because I would not call that minor issue, inappropriate.
The LA Times, the BOS, the previous regime are a political mafia masquerading as justice warriors.
That is true, call the BOS, call the LA Times and any other outlet that are supposedly investigative journalist with a story about deputies whom were framed, they will tell they feel sorry and hang up. Reporting on that type of criminal activity on the part of Jim McDonnell is not their thing, I wonder why.
Item 41-A on the green sheet for Tuesday, March 12, 2019
Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors
SUPPLEMENTAL AGENDA
41-A. Comprehensive Study of Secret Sheriff’s Deputy Subgroups
Recommendation as submitted by Supervisor Solis: Instruct the Inspector General, Executive Director of the Sheriff’s Civilian Oversight Commission, County Counsel and all relevant stakeholders to continue a comprehensive study of secret deputy subgroups, with input from relevant community stakeholders, including the relevant unions; request the Sheriff to direct Sheriff’s Department personnel to cooperate in the comprehensive study of deputy secret subgroups, in accordance with his duty to the public and the deputies sworn to protect County residents; instruct the Inspector General, County Counsel and the Executive Director of the Sheriff’s Civilian Oversight Commission to report back to the Board within 90 days on the status of the study, including the cooperation of the Sheriff; direct the Chief Executive Officer to report back to the Board in 30 days with recommendations of how to expand the Police Integrity Oversight unit in the Public Defender’s Office and the Integrity Unit within the District Attorney’s Office to appropriately respond to identified relevant issues. (19-1797)
Motion by Supervisor Solis
Joe NoBuckles – I thought my statement was clear but maybe I needed more coffee so let’s try again. I wrote that I feel for Deputies treated inappropriately. For anyone confused by that statement, I meant to convey that I care about those wronged during the investigation or discipline processes.
There should be zero tolerance for corruption on any level from anyone in public service. I want justice for them and may AV blow open any misconduct in the handling of those cases sky high. I hope all the members of the Board are voted out and don’t get me started on the media. There is no more just getting the facts. It’s now news with the political spin of the outlet’s management.
All that said, one of the million challenges faced by any Sheriff is how to best work with or around these realities and AV needs to do better. I think he botched the Mandoyan situation for the many reasons previously noted here by others and on that, we will have to simply disagree. Regardless of differing opinions on that topic, wishing everyone here a safe Sunday and here’s to better days ahead.
LASD Apostle , thanks for sharing.
What the hell are secret deputy sub groups?
Are we back to the tattoo mania? Maybe Baker to Vegas running groups?
What an absolute waste of tax payer time and money.
Charlie Unit, did you have to kill 45,000 cyber trees in doing so?
10-8, you’re right. Having tattoos isn’t against the law or policy (as long as they’re not showing on duty). Being a member of a station click is likewise NOT against the law and not directly addressed by policy. Going after either would be ill-informed and a waste of time. I thought McDonnell’s attempt to do so was stupid.
Behavior IS addressed in police and that’s what should be targeted. Unfortunately, at stations like ELA, supervision usually just looks the other way.
The real point of this motion, however, isn’t secret deputy gangs or tattoos….it’s the Board’s continued scrutiny and oversight, emphasizing the Police Integrity Oversight unit in the Public Defender’s Office and the Integrity Unit within the District Attorney’s Office. They’re also asking for Inspector General Max Huntsman to report back to the Board and include how cooperative the Sheriff is.
It’s important because, in asserting their authority, the Supervisors are also removing AV from the process. It tells me they have no confidence or trust in this Sheriff.
You’re right. Let the payback games begin…
Verbosity is a sin, and “Charlie Unit” will probably suffer for it in the Hereafter.
LASD Apostle, the more you talk the more you show your lack of understanding. Obviously, you talk because you can, because that is your constitutional right. However you lack understanding of the powers at play.
I have more faith in the public defender than in the DA Integrity unit.
So now all of the sudden you trust the BOS? okay dude, drink your cool-aid. You are more naive than I thought.
Los Angeles County Taxpayer:
“Is there an appeals process….?”
The adverse Civil Service Commission ruling in Mandoyan’s case could’ve been appealed all the way up to both the State & Federal Supreme Courts, as with the case of any adverse decision from that body.
Mandoyan chose not to follow that path, and now we’re hearing all about it in the media, probably for a long time into the future
I’ve found the dialogue about tattoos quite interesting. They are, and should be protected by the 1st Amendment and many departments have even given more leniency to allow them to show while in uniform. But there is another side which I can fully understand and appreciate too.
Whenever deputies are sued for perceived misconduct or a significant use of force plaintiffs attorneys ask if the deputy has a station tattoo. This is a known tactic that has been used for several years. If the deputy has a station tattoo, or a inappropriate tattoo of any kind, even in an area that cant be seen by the public the court and eventually a jury will find out.
Over the years of use of this tactic we have learned that these tattoos equate to a significant increase in money awarded. The settlements go up because the county knows the tattoo will taint the jury who will be told deputies are gang members or part of a racist clique.
There are some counties that have decided not to cover the losses resulted in lawsuits from their sworn personnel. This would mean deputies would need to indemnify themselves with an insurance policy. Knowing people who work in the security field these policies can be quite expensive, up words of $5000 per year. If a deputy is consider a higher risk, because of a tattoo that results in higher payouts their premiums would likewise be more expensive.
My point is, if deputies knew that they would have to pay more money, in the thousands per year, to indemnify themselves would they chose to have a tattoo?
Likewise, if the county chose not to cover deputies with tattoos fully for lawsuits would some deputies make different choices. Reality is tattoos, and the perception they are attached to nefarious activities costs the county a lot of money.
Just food for thought.
The public perception of tattoos is that they represent an expression of a clique’s approval for nefarious activities of all sorts, like excessive force.
“Wanna get inked?”
“Yeah!!!”
LASD Apostle:You are one of the few commentators who appear to be more fact based moreso than feelings based upon “what’s right” as opposed to “who’s right”
That’s the problem with many organizations including those in law enforcement who are more attuned to a certain person instead of policies and procedures.
I can go on and on, however anyone reading this already knows where I’m going with this.
Even the staunchest supporters of Sheriff Villanueva are NOT ok with LASD’s debacle.
Joe Nobuckles”
“…Call the BOS, call the LA Times…they will…hang up.”
That’s what they do to the dingbats.
I can guarantee you that JSID will have absolutely no interest in Deputy cliques, unless and until criminal activity can be attributed to them. The BOS clearly wants to roll back the clock on old issues they can somehow pin them on Sheriff Villanueva. They will fail.
You might not think Qualified Immunity be like it is, but it do.
Not so long ago, I also attributed the same to “Cognistator” based upon his comments which are comprised of facts and reality.
Ha, ha, ha, ho, ho, ho….Facts? LMAO! What dept. you work for? TSA? Hee, hee, hee, ho, ho…to much, man.
Tattoos – Excellent information – thanks. Been so busy that I hadn’t seen the recent news articles re ELA station until this morning – obvious now what motivated this motion.
I encourage you to refute any information that they have presented.
Weekend is over. School is back in session for Keystroke. Let the pain continue…
At least two important things seem to be missing in your approach. The so-called ‘liar’ argument put forth by the LA Times editorial may be valid in form, but turn out to have missed the target in terms of truth conditions. The LA Times Editorial Board, as many journalists tend to do, may believe that their claims are by the very fact they assert them ‘truth-makers’, but I assure them (more importantly reality will prove to them) that they believe this at the peril of illegitimacy and logical incoherence. To your concern, I think you’ll find that I admitted that it was a strong argument. But validity strength doesn’t make the argument true. Now, can we dispense with your ignorance of basic logic? If not, let’s go on.
The question is not whether the claim by the LA Times “is a valid accusation or not,” as you have said. The words validity and truth are distinct. The LAT accusation (as a potential truth bearer) may be initially valid as to form; it might have the requisite elements and appearance of validity when initially posed and yet later discovered to have been false, or somehow distorting the truth, or partially true, a product of hasty generalization or bandwagon fallacy, et cetera. (You may wish to re-read the post to Apostle. You seem to have missed the point of it. So, not only are you logic-challenged, your reading comprehension is at least one standard distribution on the low end.) The Times editorial was a moderately weighty but inconclusive argument, not yet (maybe not ever) possessing the status of a truth bearing claim.
But I sense that you are not really interested in a good-faith debate. Your position is that the “answers [to the questions you have framed] are not really debatable” on their truth conditions. Your mind is made up. The LA Times Editorial Board opinion piece convinced you. You don’t require anything further. The fact that you foreclosed too early on possible alternative explanations, distortions, or seeking further context from the sheriff, et cetera, does not in the least concern you.
Given your position, there’s not much more help I can give you, son. I’m going to have to fail you if you don’t exercise whatever cognitive talent God gave you.
Another Cop, I hate to pin the tail on the donkey, but your problem seems to be confusing lists of ‘facts’ with bum-rushing lists of claims, many which haven’t matured into facts, and many which never will. You aren’t the first to make this mistake and you won’t be the last. Read WLA and you see it all time. Few are like Fed Up who do not accept at face value the verbal gestures and shady arguments from the hucksters. If you are ‘in fact’ a police officer, then you ought to know the difference between a ‘fact’ (defined above) and the appearance of a fact embedded within a claim that may be doing work to conceal a ‘narrative.’ In other words, get off your ass and do some investigating and independent thinking.
Regarding the Board of Supervisors’ Tuesday supplemental agenda item: Oh my Lord!!! Let’s run for the hills!!! Let’s grab our blankys and hide in our Safe Spaces!!!
Yawn. I’ll have more to say about this meeting in the next WLA article. For now, what are the bandersnatches doing?
Media, journalists, politicians (e.g., BOS, Zev), and a couple of writers in the WLA blog use the ‘Stacking the Deck’ the technique, which everyone understands involves repeated shotgunning a bunch of slanted, one-sided ‘evidence’ or ‘investigations’ in order to bum-rush a particular conclusion. On the street, one might call it ‘running train.’ The military sometimes calls it ‘BOHICA.’ The LA Times are professionals in the technique of stacking the deck. So is the LA County Board of Supervisors. Their treatment of Sheriff Villanueva is a boilerplate pattern and practice of stacking the deck, which circulates and gives courage to others to hop on the lower cost bandwagon, often for self-interest. It has a collectivist, mob-like like quality to it. The aim and ethos of it is to give the appearance of high-minded ethical validity and authority (it is the LA Times or Board of Supervisors, after all—who in their right mind could ever question their legitimacy—we must assent!) while frightening the safe space-seeking sheep to fall in line.
The mere fact that we can’t recall ever seeing the technique used against McDonnell-Teran or Baca (until the end was not in doubt) or Sherm is some indication just how rogue and unhinged this Board has become.
As Fed Up has noted brilliantly and repeatedly, a lot of that resistance is deep-seated which makes their claims suspect. When ‘running train’ begins, it is easier and less costly to get out of the way and morph into the LA Establishment. Weak and timid people want their safe spaces and don’t have the wherewithal to deal with the tension of fighting a pitched battle or outthink and outlast an entrenched and corrupt set of adversaries. The vanquishing of McDonnell-Teran was a big battle, but it was won. The next big battle would be to generate alternative candidates to replace several of the dinosaurs on the BOS. The unions and other interest groups might start conducting their research. Who are the two or three most vulnerable Supervisors? Let the community organizers start to inform the neighborhoods that Sheriff Alex needs political help re the Board. And don’t give me this shit about Alex burning his bridges with key organizing groups. Pure fiction and misinformation.
Cognisator, your keystroke brevity may be the soul of what wit you have, but let’s explore the tattooing question a little more thoroughly. Now, run along, son. Your mother is calling you.
For LASD brass: So, a potential initial study could be a simple one: do supervisory evaluations of law enforcement personnel differ for employees with tattoos? Exploring this initial question would be preliminary to a factorial design study testing multiple independent variables related to supervisory competence in the evaluation of tattooed employees. [I won’t go into what a factorial design is here.]
Employers in the private service sector of the economy have wrestled with presence of tattooed employees and the perception by customers, clients, and consumers (Dean, 2010; Timming, 2015). Dean (2010) looked at consumer perceptions of tattoos worn by white collar and blue-collar workers, conducting a convenience questionnaire sample of 191 people in New Mexico. Results of the study indicated that visible tattoos on blue collar workers (e.g., barbers, hair stylist, auto mechanic) was perceived as socially acceptable, where the opposite was true for white collar workers (e.g., dentist, stockbroker, banker, nurse). Employers believe that there exists a general expectation by consumers, customers, and clients of “what a service provider in a particular occupation should look like” (Dean, 2010, p. 303). Timming (2015) found that corporate hiring managers held similar expectations as discovered by Dean (2010). The hiring managers held negative personal views of visible tattoos, and saw them as befitting lower-class people, yet they also saw their personal views as irrelevant to the workplace. What seemed to matter most to hiring managers was what they believed about the perceptions of their customers, which they thought was negative concerning employees displaying visible tattoos in the workplace. Hence, because employees of the firm “embody that brand” (p. 69), Timming discovered that the hiring managers would likely discriminate against hiring people with visible tattoos for front-stage, high-customer contact positions.
Perceptions of tattoos and attitudes about persons wearing tattoos may originate from a long history of prejudice. Burgess and Clark (2010) trace the history of tattoos in the West to navies journeying to the Pacific Islands during the 1760s, where many white sailors obtained tattoos from islanders. For two centuries in the West tattoos were affiliated with military service, doing prison time, and gang affiliation (e.g., outlaw motorcycle clubs). In a three-stage study, Burgess and Clark investigated whether prejudice exists in the evaluation of tattooed people (Burgess & Clark, 2010). Researchers hypothesized that people make distinctions about the content of tattoos, e.g., between cute and tribal tattoos. Cute tattoos were in fact identified by study participants as being friendly and less aggressive, whereas tribal tattoos were perceived as less friendly and more aggressive. Burgess and Clark found that possessors of cute tattoos “can expect fewer sanctions by regular society” than people with tribal tattoos (p. 760). Still, men—particularly nontattooed men—were discovered to be harsher judges of people wearing tattoos independent of tattoo type, independent of sex wearing the tattoo, and independent of job performed.
From Erving Goffman (1963) forward, stigma is a well-researched social construct. The social stigma of tattoos is also well known (e.g., Martin & Dula, 2010), though the stigma among the millennial generation, particularly among people with family or friends with tattoos, seems to be lessening (Dickson, Dukes, Smith, & Strapko, 2014). Yet there remains evidence that people with tattoos may in fact be more aggressive, rebellious, impulsive, and risk tolerant than the non-tattooed. Swami, Gaughan, Tran, Kuhlmann, and Stieger (2015) studied this question. Measures of aggression and rebelliousness of volunteers recruited from various public sites around London were obtained by researchers. Volunteers were given the Aggression and Rebelliousness Questionnaire. Researchers examined any measurable differences between reactive versus proactive rebelliousness between tattooed and non-tattooed people. Volunteers included 181 women, 197 men, all residents from around greater London area. Researchers found that individuals with tattoos scored higher (in contrast to non-tattooed people) for reactive rebelliousness compared with proactive rebelliousness. Tattooed people tend to react to negative events by getting a tattoo, an act of dissent, defiance, or opposition as they see it. The study also found tattooed people scored higher on verbal aggression and anger. However, between group (tattooed and non-tattooed) aggression and rebelliousness scores were relatively small compared with the cultural stereotype mentioned in the article. In a larger study (n=1006), Swami et al. (2016) came back to look at issues of risk and impulsivity of tattoo bearers. Tattooed adults had higher scores in motor impulsivity (i.e., a tendency to act on the spur of the moment, e.g., in the recreational and health and safety domains) than non-tattooed adults. However, Swami et al. (2016) speculate that tattoo mainstreaming since the 2000s is likely creating social pressures that cause a narrowing of difference in measures of risk and impulsivity. In other words, as tattoos become increasingly mainstream, the Bell Curve of normality shifts to dilute the association between tattoos and risk and impulsivity.
Finally, Zestcott, Tompkins, Williams, Livesay, and Chan (2018) studied the implicit and explicit attitudes toward people with tattoos, specifically whether and to what degree people in the study held explicitly positive (outward) attitudes about tattoos while also harboring implicitly negative (inward) attitudes about tattoos. People were assessed using several instruments, including the Implicit Association Test (IAT) and the Martin Stigma Against Tattoos Survey (MSATS). Seventy-seven people were included in the study, which found that participants held an implicit bias for the non-tattooed relative to the tattooed, and that there was a connection between implicit (IAT) and explicit (MSATS) bias. Employee evaluation in the public sector is primarily governed around conduct, behavior, and action, though a professional appearance is among the criteria. It is this latter criterion on which the present study proceeds.
Now, who is ready to actually discover some more ‘facts’ not phony claims masquerading narratives?
While you ole Codgers keep crying about things you can’t control, I’m bout ready to go 10-8, sleeves rolled up, ink showing, supervising our young Patrol Generation while enjoying my favorite tobacco product.
Guess what octogenarians, not a thing ya can do about it! Buaaaa Haaaaaaa
“The unions and other interest group might start conducting their research.”
My long term memory serves me correct as I’m reminded that ALADS Endorsement Committee has contributed heavily in campaign funds and endorsements for EVERY member of the current Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors.
ALADS standards are somewhat comical, laden with a WTF factor. You would shake your head at their vetting process.
If not for cronyism at ALADS, Alan Jackson would have been the District Attorney beginning in 2012 and not Jackie Lacy who gets mixed reviews.
Endorsing political favorites and “greasing their palms” to return favors is at an all time high.
Trying to corral community organizers to upend the Board of Supervisors, oconsidering LASD latest dilemma, will not have the same effect as one would think.
We all have our opinions and few like you have elongated jargon which could use the backronym KISS to keep the readers attention.
You and I both are in or have been in law enforcement and no one except for the editor of this blog will never know our identity or position. Take care.
Charlie Unit: A study was just completed and determined your diatribe on Tattoos was the biggest waste of internet space in history. Congrats. Not sure who you’re trying to impress on here.
I would wager only Celeste read your post in its entirety and that was only to ensure you weren’t calling anyone out by name.
Thanks pal! Quite a complement. Anything else I can assist you with, it would be my pleasure. More to come. Stay frosty!
Ownership, you can’t throttle a run-away blow-hard. He/she must have drove his/her patrol sergeants nuts with those 459 reports that were 17 pages long 🙁
AV is doing a great job.
A good T.O. would nip his craft in the bud and advise him to save his literature skills until after he gets off training.
Ouch, ouch, ouch! Stop with the key strokes!!!!!
The Sheriff even brought back ole’J dub after 3 years. After hearing the stories of him and Terri Jo at the river with another co-conspirator I thought he was finished. I heard the old man snitched on a couple of good dudes and worked on the campaign as a sign spinner in the Valinda area. Funny how he got his job back and Ratviles was overnighted soon after. He was a real blue falcon.