Future of Journalism • Writers and Writing

Future of Journalism: Part 364 – Deadline LA

December 29, 2009
by Celeste Fremon
90 Comments

The-Press

The podcast for the special Christmas Day, 1-hour broadcast of KPFK’s Deadline LA has been posted.

As I mentioned before, the subject up for discussion was the future of journalism: What lies ahead? And what is important to preserve from the models of so-called legacy media?

And a lively discussion it was.

In addition to hosts Barbara Osborn and Howard Blume those on air were:

1. Michael Schudson, a Columbia School of Journalism professor who, together with the former managing editor of the Washington Post, Leonard Downie, Jr., has recently published a report about a particular aspect of the future of journalism, which has caused a big stir (and a certain amount of shouting) among those who are obsessive thinking, talking, posting and tweeting about such things.

2. Victor Valle, a Cal Poly professor of journalism and ethnic studies, who is also a former Pulitzer winning reporter. Valle had some provocative opinions about the flaws and blind spots inherent in even some of the best of conventional journalism, as it has been practiced in the last several decades.

3. To round out the threesome there was….um…me.

I finally listened to the show myself yesterday. And I suspect (and hope), you’ll find that our looping interweave of speculation and opinions will stimulate some of your own.

(If you come up with any ideas you’re willing to share with the rest of us—please do!)

90 Comments

  • I don’t know if I understand this problem. You can play the game or let TMZ scoop you on all the news.

    NBC’s interview with David Goldman has drawn a scathing review from the Society of Professional Journalists’ Ethics Committee.

    The panel says it’s “appalled” because NBC News chartered a plane for Goldman and his son, Sean, to fly from Brazil to the United States. They were reunited after a five-year custody battle, and they arrived in Orlando on Christmas Eve. In paying for the plane, NBC News engaged in “checkbook journalism,” the Ethics Committee says.

    The journalists’ group has a code of ethics that urges reporters to refrain from bidding for news.

    …The Ethics Committee critique arrived after it was reported that CNN paid a licensing fee to Jasper Schuringa, the hero of Northwest Flight 253 who subdued a Nigerian man determined to blow up the plane. CNN paid for a cell phone image — and thus landed Schuringa for an exclusive interview.

    …There should be one standard in journalism. No matter if the story is happy or tragic, checkbook journalism is wrong.

    – – –

    Off topic, but I thought about you on this Celeste. — Next time, try poetry.

  • The podcast link apparently works now. Once again, in the podcast from her home, Celeste conceals her clutter, stacked dishes, dead plants, and graffiti covered walls.

    Within the discussion, I was surprised that NPR was held up as a high standard for journalism, especially since it is so left-leaning, thus, only appealing to a minority of Americans.

  • Good work Celeste. Not saying anything here I have not said directly to your show hosts on several occasions and about which I have publicly written…. but…it seems rather absurd that a show purportedly about journalism and the media refuses to ever deal with the 800lb gorilla of the rather deformed station and network that carries it. Not becoming. Pacifica is a diseased and collapsing institution that eats its young and has already squandered its legacy and future. You’d think that might deserve some mention on the show, no?

  • Woody, why are all of the republican hacks on t.v. today saying “checkbook journalism”? You’re a real innovator. Everyone’s stealing your phrases.

  • Sure Fire, I don’t know if you still comment here or if you started under another screen name, understandably from being embarrassed about all of your previous melt downs, but whatever the case, I read today that police fatalities this year is at its lowest since 1959. So, next time a cop gets cold cocked by a code 4 suspect, how about saving us the “police are under fire” rants and having a nice cup o’ STFU?

  • Rob, if you checked the provided link in the first comment, you would have seen that all mention of “checkbook journalism” was quoted entirely from the article. The failure to properly identify the quote resulted from a coding error. Only the first and last paragraphs were mine. The phrase “checkbook journalism” is actually a media phrase used by elitist liberals.

  • Actually, I think the brouhaha over the David Goldman/flight incident is really interesting. I’d missed it. Thanks for the link, Woody.

    If school was on, I’d bring it straight to my class as they would leap happily on the discussion. I’d be interested to hear their take.

    “You can play the game or let TMZ scoop you on all the news.” In truth, this is one of the dilemmas that is plaguing newsrooms right now and it is making often for damned lousy fact-checking at times.

  • WTF, that El Monte thing is a bit dicey, no? Is it really within police policy to kick a guy in the head because you think he might be trying to get up from the ground in the course of an arrest—considering you are armed and he is not? Interesting logic.

  • It’s a shame “Spock” aka Cybil didn’t receive a pair of huevos for Christmas, maybe then she would post with her regular identity instead of whatever name pops into her menudo filled brain. I’ve met many abuelitas with more cajones than AnonyMouse. lol

  • I never post under anything but my name Robbie. Maybe you should learn to read all the facts before you shoot your mouth off. Law Enforcement deaths are down, mostly due to less deaths in the area of vehicular accidents. Shootings of cops are way up.

    You’re and idiot as usual.

  • Celeste, the kick in itself didn’t rise to any type of brutality level and a distraction blow is pretty commonly accepted. You assume someone is in custody because they’re lying down and a cop is there and might have a hold of them? Not always true.

    I rolled on a bar fight once. One of my partners had a local asshole in a carotid restraint because he wouldn’t calm down. I knew the guy and knew he was 100% thug. He started to go to sleep and said “I give” and the officer strated to loosen his hold. He jumped straight at me and punched me in the face.

    After we took him into custody I made a meet with the officer and gave him the same thing the asshole gave me. I was the officer’s imediate supervisor and had in fact talked to him about his lack of agressiveness and lax officer safety more than once. He didn’t bitch me and seemed to get the point after that a bit better.

    Officers have been killed by people they thought they had properly detained, waited to long to take major force against or were in control of. That wouldn’t matter to an obvious piece of scum like Robbie but I don’t think you have a clue as to officer safety issues in these type situations.

    Oh, and i wouldn’t have kicked the guy in the position he was in. There are other ways to deal with it. It just isn’t as big a deal as people make it out to be.

  • There are at least ten occupations, including farmers, fishermen and truck drivers, who average more fatalities than police officers. And, no, shooting deaths of cops are not at some all-time high as some would suggest. “Way up” is relative and, frankly, meaningless in the context of the real stats. I wouldn’t bother to point this fact out because I have enormous respect for decent cops and it seems petty, but it’s appropriate given the proliferation of self-serving alarmist bullshit from a total asshole who thinks he’s owed respect that he’s never earned in these threads with his guttersniping and arrogant preening. I hate assholes.

  • SureFire, interesting and informative. Thank you. I admit the El Monte situation sounds overly aggressive. But I say that as a civilian who knows nothing more than what was printed in a very short news story. Thus it helps to have a further explanation of the circumstances that might make a “distraction blow” appropriate.

  • http://arkansasmatters.com/content/news/fulltext?cid=281381

    Relative to what Reg? Is a 26% more increase than 2008 “way up” in the menatlly deranged world you live in idiot? It’s real simple, people are shooting at cops more. An officer was shot at point blank range just a few days ago and saved by his badge. I didn’t say anything about an “all time high” so why do you need to, once again, lie to try to make a point? Can’t you do it without one?

    Point out the stats or links to back your moronic post up, that everyone is so into here, or maybe you should just shut up instead of showing yourself to be a lying self-serving asshole as is you s.o.p.

    By the way, next time you need a cop call a farmer, fisherman or truck driver, I’m sure they’ll know what to do. You’re about as smart as the wall I’m looking at.

  • You’re a whining little shit. Go cry in a corner. The stats are easy enough to find. I’m not your kindergarten teacher.

  • As for the officer’s death by gunfire stats, there has in fact been a 24% increase in 2009 over 2008. That totals 47 vs. 38 in 2008. But 2008 had the lowest number of such deaths since 1956. So, no, there is no epidemic of officers being shot. Surefire is a fraud blowing smoke. It’s a damned shame he’s addicted to hysteria and adolescent hate-mongering when discussing law enforcement issues. A blight on the profession.

  • A rise in cops being shot doesn’t matter to Reg, it’s a minor thing. I’m sure the same goes for Robbie. Reg puts nothing up to show how many assaults on officers there’s been, officers wounded or officers shot at. Unlike this pathological cat covering his shit liar, I’ll have to look those up before I can speak on them but my guess would be they’ve gone up as well.

    I’m also guessing that if there was a big upswing in internet asswipe geriatric bitches getting capped that would hit a little closer to home right Reg? You’d be looking over you shoulder huh fuckhead? Yet doesn’t your pathetic lame lying ass have law enforcement in the family in some rough no cal town? It doesn’t bother you this rise in officers shot and killed, some in your own town which is in that general locale? You’re a major head case old man. A miserable little worm posting hate and hate and more hate on the net like any common variety bitch.

    What a constant liar this fucking “punk” is. The fucking link meant nothing, who the fuck cares really? Comparing those occupations is as ridiculous as claiming I said there was an “epidemic”. Couldn’t point that out could you Reggie Boy?

    All you can do is lie to cover more pathetic lies you tell.

    Reg is the fucking fraud prince of the internet.

  • “A rise in cops shot doesn’t matter to Reg…”
    You’re a cheap little coward coming back with that nonsense. You can’t handle facts that prove you are a whiner who plays fast and loose with the truth, so you spit and throw a tantrum. You’ve got nothing but your anger and it’s a combination of ugly and lame. You live in your own very small fabricated, narcissistic world in which you’ve got to be the hero, even though you’re a total asshole and apear ridiculous in these comments threads. You’re the creepy little shit who dubbed called this blog “cophater.” Total disgrace to the profession. A whiner of the worst sort. You bring nothing that’s helpful to actually understanding problems facing law enforcement – other than validating most taxpayers’ uneasy feeling that a certain cohort of men drawn to the profession shouldn’t be in it.

  • “internet asswipe geriatric bitches getting capped”

    Nice touch, little man. Very impressive. Your problem isn’t with “cophaters” but anybody who challenges your bullshit. How has that worked out for you ? Folks who read your shit here have truly gained great insight into the travails of law enforcement professionals. You make other officers jobs easier and enhance the reputation of the police tremendously. The truth is that these are your pathological fantasies on display. Your raving “bitch-snitch” syndrome of self-loathing. Pathetic shit.

  • Sure Fire, if you want to share in a similar blessing to mine, say something really offensive to a certain commenter and he’ll promise never to respond to you again. Such a remark is difficult to create, but it’s possible, and it’s worth it. Try to make it factual and personal enough to hit home, as I did.

  • You two dysfunctional lying scumbags deserve each other. I’m out of here. The stink is overwhelming in these comments thereads. It’s not worth it to get called a “bitch” for countering bullshit with facts, because SureFire’s assertions are nonsense if one looks at the relevant statistics over decades. Nor can I stand the stench of this Georgia cracker who used the tragic death of a person known well to this blog in order to spread filth, lies and defame. I can’t deal with people who have no shame and I can’t read their serial crap without including it in my responses. It’s no win. And boring, because they’re so easy to counter with facts.

    Also a kick in the head is a kick in the head. Using the terminology “distraction blow” in reference to kicking someone in the head is Orwellian. This is a bureaucracy trying to redefine reality by attempting to control the language. They are trying to write certain explicit language out of the lexicon if its applied to them. It’s Cheney’s “enhanced interrogation.” Once we allow bureaucrats and bad-actors to get this crap language into general usage, they’ve won. The guy was kicked in the head. Justify that – explain why a kick in the head is okay – or shut the fuck up. Don’t take the coward’s route of “redefining” a kick in the head into something other than what it is – and let others not accept that cheap dodge. When this garbage language creeps into journalism, via the intimidation of reassuring “authority”, we’re being played.

    I’m taking a break from this place because it’s just too fucking aggravating dealing with guttersnipes who have absolutely no boundaries – and apparently damned little in the way of intelligence – governing their behavior. Enjoy Woody and Surefire run amok, folks. Woody will, incidentally, dance on a poor man’s grave to score cheap partisan points. He did it to Richard LoCicero over at Marc Cooper’s in a way that was beyond ugly. He’s the most dishonest, disgusting troll I’ve ever encountered, and that’s saying a lot. He can say what he will in hedging and rationalizing his using Richard’s death as a cheap talking point, but the bottom line is that he has no shame and he’s a liar. That’s what defines this little man. His lack of any moral sense, and his lies – piled on top of his bigotry. He’s not cute. He’s despicable. He’s all yours if you want him.

  • Oh, no! reg proved himself a liar again by both reading and responding to my comment, which was even directed to someone else. But the good news is that reg wrote, “I’m out of here.” I hope he doesn’t break his word, once more, and stay. But, don’t call it a “break,” reg. Say “it’s goodbye forever.” We’ll manage to live on. It’s tiresome for everyone to have to read fifty curse words from you just to find one sentence that might contribute something. Oh, don’t go look, but I thought of you on my latest post.

  • Oh, no! I hope that this isn’t the future of journalism!

    Washington Times slashes staff; SPORTS SECTION OUT

    No sports section?! Liberals must have taken over. This must be their way of copying reg and sayinig “f- football.”

    The article also said:

    The paper will publish a new weekday print edition starting Monday. It will focus on the newspaper’s core strengths, including politics and cultural issues….

    Officials said the local print edition will be distributed for free to “targeted audiences,” including some federal government offices. At-home and office delivery will be offered at a premium price. The paper dropped its Saturday print edition last year with editors citing low circulation.

    The Times has said it would cut staff as it aims to improve its multimedia presence, which includes the paper’s high-traffic Web site and its radio program, “America’s Morning News.”

  • I skipped a lot of the fighting, but if anyone wants the actual stats on officer deaths by firearms, I think I’ve got the relevant info. There were 58 officer firearm deaths in 2007, 41 in 2008, and 48 in 2009. Obviously, you never want those numbers to go up, but it seems there’s a certain amount of annual fluctuation and not a major crisis in the works.

    http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel09/statistics%20_051109.htm

    http://www.project.org/info.php?recordID=280

  • yeesh. I made the mistake of checking Woody and GM’s blog and they have featured a doctored picture of the first black president as a shoeshine boy.

  • Correction, Mavis. Obama’s kneeling to check for shoe bombs, while trying to not look up dresses for underwear bombs. (Also, that post isn’t from G.M., who carries higher standards.)

  • “Higher standards” as in bodice bombs or the WEsternized boob bomb? Come on! The reality is that this Nigerian was deluded enough to make an effort to kill a planeload of people of multiple ethnicities and national origins in order to further his religious zeal. Fuck religion.

  • Fuck religion?

    You mean fuck theirs, not ours!?
    Celeste, you look beautiful.
    What will our gorgeous gal be wearing tonight, we all want to know?

  • The photo is titled How Sarah Got Her Groove Back … has nothing to do with TSA Woody-you old prankster you!!:)

  • I hate Woody, Sure Fire, WTF, Mike Higby, Walter Moore, Lou Dobbs, Mary Cummins, Republicans, Robber Barons, Nativists, Xenophobes and all the of Anglo-Saxons who have better life than mine. Pinche Gavachos !!!!!!!!!!

  • Good grief, you guys. A number of people need to take a very deep breath. (And then take another one. And another.)

    Happy 2010.

    And….Peace.

    Generally and specifically.

    Back late, late tonight with more specific wishes and possible resolutions.

    And, Elmer, in answer to your question, jeans, Uggs, and some sequin-related accessories. You?

  • Just want to make something clear. Reg described Woody and I in this manner “You two dysfunctional lying scumbags deserve each other…”. What Reg won’t show is where I lied, I can’t speak for Woody. Reg can show where I offered opinion he doesn’t agree with, but not anywhere that I lied.

    First thing I posted on this thread had to do with a post Rob made, to me by the way, about “this years” police fatalities (post#6). I responded as to why they were mostly down this year, in post #15, along with the statement “Shooting of cops are way up”. Again, I was speaking of this year. Anywhere you check on the internet you’ll see that figure to be anywhere from 24% to 26%. That is a huge one year raise in my opinion, but what does Reg say?

    Reg: “Way up” is relative and, frankly, meaningless in the context of the real stats. I wouldn’t bother to point this fact out because I have enormous respect for decent cops and it seems petty, but it’s appropriate given the proliferation of self-serving alarmist bullshit from a total asshole who thinks he’s owed respect that he’s never earned in these threads with his guttersniping and arrogant preening. I hate assholes.

    Reg has no respects for cops unless their all “servant” in my opinion. He wants them to bend over and kiss the ass of the public, take care of the problem children and make the streets safe but if they don’t agree with his warped view of “their profession” they better stand by because he’ll tear them up with his education and mastery of the language. Problem is that he falls short like any other common hater and liar.

    In post #16 I offered opinion and some explanation on the kick by the El Monte officer to the scum gangster’s head. I posted a personal experience regarding an officer’s ill perceived notion a suspect was detained and in control when he wasn’t. All of this apparently offended Reg.

    In his hateful as usual response to most anything I post, he attempts to compare the dangers of the job of a police officer to those of farmers, fishermen and truck drivers. This is nothing but a hateful attack on all law enforcement because of how he feels about me. None of the occupations he linked to become a target of a certain segment of society due to their work as are police officers. Four “targeted” and assassinated in less than 15 seconds up in Washington points that out more than anything else I could post here. It’s not the first time nor will it be last this type event takes place.

    That Reg has to then post an enormous lie to attempt to make his point shows how weak he is (Reg: And, no, shooting deaths of cops are not at some all-time high as some would suggest.) Never said it, never claimed it and never was part of the conversation until Reg opened his fat mouth. His attempt to change the course of what I said to lesson the tragedy of a huge increase in officer’s being shot to death this past year shows how little he truly cares about the profession a family member of his is engaged in.

    He talks about how I can’t handle facts but I don’t care about facts about farmers, fishermen or the like. As a person I’ve caught in more than one lie why would I regard anything Reg says to be truthful? That’s why he really doesn’t like me, he doesn’t know how to handle having someone here who can actually call him out and show what a liar he is based on his own words.

    I’ll just end with saying “distraction blows” are part of all departments weaponless defense training classes. As I already pointed out I didn’t think it was needed in the El Monte incident, but it certainly wasn’t police brutality. I’ve investigated brutality complaints and that’s my opinion.

    This thread shows the level Reg will sink to in an attempt to show his disgust and hate for cops. He’s a miserable guy and probably needs that break.

  • Okay – one last comment. Celeste – I’m not taking any deep breaths because I have had to take a deep breath every time I read your comments threads. One of the best blogs with one of the worst comment threads on the internet.

    As for SureFire’s running away from his comments and trying to smear me, he said cop killings are “way up” when in fact they’ve been “way down” for years. His bullshit is kind of like saying that stocks are “way up” compared to last August. It’s meaningless out of any context, and he didn’t supply any. The reason there’s a 24% increase over last year, incidentally, is that the number of cops killed in 3-4 single incidents was greater. If you compare the increase in the number of cops on the street and look back over past decades, in fact cop killings are “way down.” If you want anything approaching analysis, this is the only meaningful set of stats. If you are trying to inflate your ego and whining capacities as some burned out case looking for attention on the internet, “Way UP!” is your ticket.

    SureFire and Woody can keep commenting here because there are absolutely no standards for the content of comments. I get dinged for profanity, but the obscenities Woody descends to with his racism, homophobia and garbage like accusations regarding child molestation – as though child molestation is somehow a source of humor – are beneath anything I have tolerance for. When Woody tried to use the death of Richard LoCicero as a dishonest and cheap talking point over at Marc’s place – which I believe he has done before, but not at quite the same volume level as I recall – he showed anyone who cared what constitutes his “soul.” It’s not a pretty sight.

    SureFire came in here blasting with a mountain of alleged “cop” bullshit – passed off as “expertise” – that culminated in his calling the blog a “cophaters” site. He can Eddie Haskell his wimpy way out of that, but I’d ban him in a minute if he said shit like that responding to my posts. People who get the vapors over profanity are ridiculous IMHO. But I do have a sense of lines being crossed – which is when I tend to tell folks to go fuck themselves, etc. and both Woody and SureFire have crossed those lines many times on matters of substance. Woody serially posts racist cartoons on his blog. I’d kick his little ass if he confronted me with that shit in person. I’m not tolerant of racist garbage. Of course, he wouldn’t do that in person because he’s a coward. SureFire is also a monumental coward – he can’t hold up his end of a dispute on a factual basis (see the smoke blown above, trying to rationalize a totally bullshit assertion if its examined beyond a 12-month window), so he goes ballistic. If the angry, narcissistic little shit parading his goods here is in “law enforcement”, it’s one of the reasons so many folks scratch their heads when they actually have to deal with those assholes hiding their personal problems behind a badge. I’m not “running” – I’m stepping out of what has become a sewer and a distraction from anything even remotely approaching useful time spent reading blogs. And once again, in truth, I don’t hate cops but I have a very limited tolerance for assholes. Telling SureFire something he must already know about himself isn’t my job and has become an almost embarrassing waste of my time.

    So Eddie Haskell and the Whining Man are welcome to all the attention they so desperately need. The “comment moderation” issue isn’t my call. Celeste has an unusual level of tolerance – which is why she does so many good works with folks who’ve made some very bad choices. Woody and SureFire are lucky to have found that level of moral dispensation in a blog host, although there’s no evidence they are actually trying to turn their miserable shit around. But, for those who comment here and aren’t assholes, like Mavis and “WBC” (now that she’s gotten that old Che T-shirt fetish out of the way) enjoy !

  • I wonder where the job of mexican drug dealer ranks, in the most dangerous job list ?

    **************************

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/30/murder-victims-found-hanging-from-mexico-overpass/

    Murder victims found hanging from Mexico overpass
    By The Associated Press

    Wednesday, December 30, 2009 at 11:23 a.m.

    CULIACAN, Mexico — The bound, beaten bodies of two men were found hanging by their necks from a highway overpass in northern Mexico on Wednesday, along with a handwritten message from a drug cartel.

    The men’s hands were tied behind their backs, and shell casings at the scene in Los Mochis suggested the killers fired at the victims as they were hanging by their necks, Sinaloa state prosecutors spokesman Martin Gastelum said. The cause of death was still under investigation.

  • I deny all of reg’s allegations. They are the rantings of a frustrated mad man reduced to name calling and imaginary demons.

    To reg, a liar is someone whose arguments that he can’t refute or one whose points he holds in personal disagreement depite reality. A racist to him is anyone who is honest about Obama, racial politics, and black crime. On intolerance, he, himself, is the intolerant one, especially of those with religious beliefs that hold homosexuality and its acts to be sinful and as damaging to a healthier society. The outrage about the death of his blog co-poster hit home with him because he acted concerned but didn’t even bother to keep informed of the whereabouts of his “friend” for months, but he’s content to righteously demand that others pay for supporting everyone else, which was my point about a liberal who is compassionate with other people’s money. Truth hurts, reg, when you’re wrong.

    So, reg, why don’t you keep your word and quit reading my posts and quit commenting here with your objective of destroying the reputation of others with false attacks and vile words over issues that you can’t properly and rightfully defend?

    We’ll do fine without you. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    BTW, Celeste, I bet that you looked hot in your jeans, Uggs, and sequin-related accessories. Happy New year!

  • Reg is mentally ill or a pathological liar, maybe both. I explained myself and he still tries to claim things I said that are nowhere to be found. He can’t accept that when he shoots off his mouth people are going to shove back. He’s a shallow miserable shell of a man who can’t admit he’s wrong so he stretches comments to fit the sorry ends he wants to see to whatever subject he’s screaming about.

    Fifteen years ago, according to the FBI stats there were 12,000 less assaults on officers than 2008. That’s just a tiny number as well to Reg who deep down is happy when cops are hurt and killed as his constant attacks on anything positively posted on them shows.

    Anything posted by him that implies otherwise is all show and sorry fuckhead, the majority of them out there are like me so stay inside and wallow in your miserable fucking existence, that ain’t changing.

  • Can’t you just feel the love? I sincerely hope the tempo here is no precursor to what we’ll move onto in the coming decade. That utopian dream for the planet many of us held back in the 60s has degraded to a slugfest that can only end badly. Reality’s a bitch!

  • Gava Joe Says:
    January 1st, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Can’t you just feel the love?

    ……………..

    Or this love?

    http://inthehat.blogspot.com/2006/07/la-times-finally-wakes-up.html

    Gava Joe said…

    “Out here the urban ghettoes, Omaha,Wichita,Topeka,KC, and the outlying areas are growing and beginning to prosper and transform not from the efforts of the lazy mayate whose stagnant open-handed, “gimme-gimme”attitude created them, but from the presence of the “migre nuevo”. That being the somewhat newly arrived Chicanos and MX nationals who are there to do the work the mayates wo’nt..”

    Gava Joe said…

    “Since Abe and the Abolitionists ended slavery the “ex-slave” has tried to instill and nurture that guilt.. You can still hear it in the more liberal media, but its potency is waining at long last….

    …but bottom line, vatos: the long, profitable run by the tinto chongos is about done. They’ve exposed their own laziness and inability to “organize under fire”.. Aftermath of Katrina bears that witness..”

    The animales who killed those innocents have yet to be caught, but they will.. I’m confident that the amt of favoritism they may have enjoyed is quickly going away. You may as well believe it too. Look around.

    Gava Joe said…

    “I said it before, if you ever had the unfortunate chance to live with these stinkin, ignorant cretins with all their wretched fucking hair products fouling the atmosphere, and have to listen to their primitive rants you’d concur (or grab your ankles like the punk you appear to be)… Fuck YOU! There’s a comment Wally wo’nt read HA!

    Yup I DO favor a Chicano over some of my own race, but it’s like that everywhere. A man is judged by the content of his character. A solid trait in the vatos I’ve known is LOYALTY.. A mayate will give you up in a hot tick, and piss down his leg when he does for fear he’ll get stuck before he PCs up..
    OK foolio?”

  • HaHa – yup “I said it before” and now I’m saying it again. Beautiful rob. It’s an honor and privilege to reread MY stuff. I won’t deny a word, never have. you might consider putting up something besides your argumentative pap, maybe something original, instead of text from an old, defunct blog. We’ve been over this again and again, your attempts to get some rise. Sorry my ignorant friend, the best I can do is move a few inches to the right to release a long, windy baked ham and cheese sandwich rob thomas.

    PS. Your response or obvious “baiting for debating” came really quick, robbie boy. I’m honored to think that you’ve copied and saved my select comments from ITH. I wonder how much vitriol you had to summon to rush to your file and post them on this thread? You must’ve had a shitty holiday so far. I’ve learned from you over the years that you’re a whiny “last word” kind of troll, so I’ll let you have it because frankly I can’t be bothered with all your negative energy. Sorry.

  • It’s hilarious! reg, calls us liars, but then he continues to comment, after he has repeatedly said that he wouldn’t any more…and, proving that he continues to check-back and read all of our comments, when he said that he would not. Everytime that he does that he’s the one lying.

    Naturally, while the Left thinks that any doctored images of Obama are wrong, take a look at those that they made for Bush. If you do it for Obama, you’re racist. If you do it for Bush, no problem. At some point, the Left is going to have to quit hiding behind the race card and actually discuss something rationally.

    Get a life, reg, but get it somewhere else.

  • Gava Joe, the point of me posting your comments from InTheHat is to mock your pretense in here of somehow being above fighting. You’re the single most hate filled person in this room, and those comments from ITH, which you’ve just stood by, again, are proof of it. I’m not looking for a debate with you. I just think your hypocrisy is worth confronting.

  • Anyone interested (but why would you be?) might want to click robbie’s link and see the comment he’s taken out of context. The discusion back there were heated, partisan, informative and harmless. Also it should be noted that BHO was just another junior Senator from Illinois.

    http://inthehat.blogspot.com/2006/07/la-times-finally-wakes-up.html

    I’m sure I could dredge up plenty of robbie’s condescending, no-so-moving comments from the In the Hat blog, but why? Everywhere we’ve traveled he and I in this medium he’s consistent only in his penchant for provoking arguments and dissent.

  • Reading those comments of yours from ITH, Gava Joe, I’ve realized that I have never heard even the most hardened Latino gang member, who declares black gangs or even black people enemies, use as much hateful and threatening words directed toward black people in general as you have in those comments. They’re so low, so vile, that even most gang members would steer clear of you. But isn’t that always the case with someone desperately sucking up to a crowd to fit in? Your campaign and bizarre rants go so overboard that not only did you make them question their association with you, but perhaps even their own lifestyle. Maybe that was your intention all along, to show them if they head down that road of racism and hate, that one day they would sound like you. But of course, you just stood by those comments again today, not denouncing or apologizing for them in the slightest. Which tells me the same hatred still runs through you, the same thoughts and instincts that are far more perverse and criminal than those of the average street thug. Do us all a favor, and stay out there in the middle of nowhere.

  • Tsk-Tsk rob. You know Celeste spanked you the last time you tried your cheap shots. I’m guessing #58 is your way of placating your dastardly tactics, but rest assured I have no intention of matching wits w/a half-wit.

  • What has to be a racist article, because it doesn’t fawn all over Obama…. Obama and Our Post-Modern Race Problem.

    …The essence of our new “post-modern” race problem can be seen in the parable of the emperor’s new clothes. …The lie of seeing clothes where there were none amounted to a sophistication—joining oneself to an obvious falsehood in order to achieve social acceptance. In such a sophistication there is an unspoken agreement not to see what one clearly sees—in this case the emperor’s flagrant nakedness.

    America’s primary race problem today is our new “sophistication” around racial matters. Political correctness is a compendium of sophistications in which we join ourselves to obvious falsehoods (“diversity”) and refuse to see obvious realities (the irrelevance of diversity to minority development). I would argue further that Barack Obama’s election to the presidency of the United States was essentially an American sophistication, a national exercise in seeing what was not there and a refusal to see what was there—all to escape the stigma not of stupidity but of racism.

    …A greater problem for our nation today is that we have a president whose benign—and therefore desirable—blackness exempted him from the political individuation process that makes for strong, clear-headed leaders. He has not had to gamble his popularity on his principles, and it is impossible to know one’s true beliefs without this. …..

  • Roobie tom sez: “Do us all a favor and stay out there in the middle of nowhere”

    Gava Joe replies: OK.

  • Those readers who have used the word “mayate” please raise your hand.

    I wonder if R.T. has looked at the hate filled speech from his “friend” who calls East Los Angeles home?

  • I have been elsewhere and have not closely monitored the comments on this thread.

    For the next post, (which may not be until Monday morning), I’m going to monitor and simply delete without warning anybody who cannot have a discussion without the kind of personal attacks that are going on here.

    Fair warning: My deletions will likely be with a machete, because I simply do not have the time or the patience to use a scalpel. So expect unfairness.

    I will also delete anything from here on out on this thread that is not civil. And the person deciding what “civil” means, is me. Period.

  • Celeste, if we can have a “civil war” in which a Union general burns down an entire city and every farm between him and the Atlantic, then how can anything said here be less civil? Well, if reg keeps his word to not comment, a great big IF, then the tone will improve substantially.

    Also, maybe you’ll feel better about everything if you can get your hormones in balance between now and Monday.

  • “Also, maybe you’ll feel better about everything if you can get your hormones in balance…”

    If I can avoid taking the obvious bait, then the rest of y’all can leave the other wiggling little fishing worms in Woody’s comments alone.

    Please do. Thank you.

  • In the interest of pacifism I’ll avoid hormones at all cost and mention that I use fresh garlic to worm my dogs.
    and end with a quote from Lynard Skynard. “The South’s gonna rise again”…

  • “If I can avoid taking the obvious bait, then the rest of y’all can leave the other wiggling little fishing worms in Woody’s comments alone.”

    ******************************

    Does this mean we can’t say the transexual activist is better looking than Woody’s wife?

  • I guess that I can’t make a sincere comment without someone considering it to be bait.

    On to something else, here’s a good site for those of you who are interested in carrying a gun in L.A.: LA Gun Rights Examiner’s Articles. Below are some of its articles.

    Safer Streets 2010: Putting the self in self-rule.
    Safer Streets 2010: Getting rid of Political Correctness first.
    Safer Streets 2010: A refusal to turn crime around.

    Safer Streets 101: Only You have the power and where.
    Safer Streets 101: Gun ownership meets lower crime.
    Safer Streets 101: Gun control as the first sign the electorate is not in control.
    Safer Streets 101: Affluent neighborhoods not to be immune to violence.
    Safer Streets 101: L.A. Times says “One gun bill too many.”
    Gun Control: Answering the L.A. Times Editorial against guns.
    Safer Streets 101: Saying No to socialism and gun control.

    Gun Control: a doctor’s view of wound treatment.
    Gun Control: Making the K in Kalifornia Stick in 2010.

  • “I guess that I can’t make a sincere comment without someone considering it to be bait.”

    So let me get this straight. You consider the following a “sincere comment”:

    “Also, maybe you’ll feel better about everything if you can get your hormones in balance”

    I assumed it was an attempt at humor. But your wondering whether Celeste’s hormones are out of balance is actually a sincere question? Hmm, okay.

  • I enjoyed Celeste’s threats and will be sending copies to my Liechtensteiner, Lithuanian, British, German, Russian and Danish friends. I might try to explain it to my Spanish-speaking friends. While I do not think it will change anything here, at least it will show that there are different ways of looking at this.

  • I like you wielding the sword Celeste. My son and I have quite the collection of medieval weaponry if you need something you can count on to do the job right.

    Post #60 by Robbie is a laugh riot. Sounds to me like you’ve never sat down with a real thug in your life or you’re “desperately sucking up to a crowd to fit in”.

    I’ve heard so much worse. You’re whole rap is a fantasy.

  • If we’re pretty much through discussing the future of journalism, maybe some of you would be interested in the future of your state.

    It’s payback time for California

    Maybe the saddest thing about California in 2009 is that the bad news was so predictable.

    …But we should have known for at least a decade that California, stuck in political gridlock, was living too close to the edge, spending more than it was taking in, liquidating assets, borrowing, fudging, deferring to make each year’s budget “balance.” What makes the situation so dire now is that almost all the gimmicks have been exhausted and the state is no closer to fixing its dysfunctions than it was 20 years ago.

    …What may be most depressing about the outlook for 2010 is that none of the possible gubernatorial candidates – two declared Republicans, Meg Whitman and Steve Poizner, and one as-yet-undeclared Democrat, Jerry Brown – has offered anything that promises to dig California out of its political-fiscal morass. That may change after the June primary, but don’t bet on it. ….

    Hey, I’ve got it! Elect Pastor Rick Warren as governor and have him raise money for California!

  • Hey, gangs have a great answer on protecting yourself against gang violence and murder!

    “Buy a gun,” a member of a recently busted inner-city gang told The Buffalo News last week when asked what could be done to curtail homicides. “Hey, I’m just being honest. You asked.”

    Tall and good looking, the young man half smiled, shrugged and seemed to disappear into his oversized winter coat.

    Twice the victim of gunfire — a fact a street cop confirmed — the young man said he views self-protection as the best means of avoiding death on the streets.

    So, why are our politicians saying the opposite and trying to make gun ownership more difficult? Gang members apparently have practical experience and better advice.

  • Happy New Year Everyone.

    Actually, I think even Woody’s worst critics wouldn’t wish for even him to vacation down Durango way these days. What happened to that asst. principle from El Monte, being dragged out of a restaurant and shot execution style, was horrible. It does indeed focus attention on how bad things are down there, 700 killings in that area alone the past couple years, some 15,000 in Mexico as a whole. Cops, judges, even relatives of officials, are prime targets, and rich people such likely targets as hostages for ransom, many have moved north to the US, forsaking lavish homes and the lifestyle that goes with it, all the cheap help, etc.

    They’re apparently smuggling meth and other drugs from this area to the US. What struck me was that the guy’s wife is only 26 years old, but as a native of Durango state and that very town, said that when she was growing up, she could go anywhere even at night without fear. Wow that was a FAST, dramatic decline.

  • I’m sure no expert but can only respond to our neighbor nation’s plight with “poor Mexico”. There was a time not so long ago when the police were the most corrupt and dangerous group in that country. A person could generally get out of a jam with a reasonable bribe and you’d be allowed to go on your way. Now the police and Federales are the least of any visitor’s worries. It’s conceivable that the kidnap/killers of the man from El Monte weren’t cartel heavies, but merely thugs who’ve upgraded their violence along with the rhythmn of the whole damned country, and the police won’t do a fucking thing but offer up some lackluster response, because they’re running scared.

    My unpopular belief is if drugs were legalized that a natural equalibrium would transpire. The heavy users with unlimited supply would self-destruct (eliminating the cost of rehabs), the billions wasted on the failed War on Drugs could be redirected towards the stupid foreign wars this country perpetuates, or better yet huge monies could be spent on rebuilding our infrastructure, our crumbling streets, bridges, schools,etc. The gangs who benefit from drug profits might begin to suffer, and with the improvements in the neighborhoods new recruits might not be so quick to join gangs.

    I know by broaching the subject in this forum I’m open for huge critique, but that’s what it’s for. I also believe strongly that Mexico’s problems of late are soon to be our own, and for better or worse I’m not sure this country maintains the bloodthirsty mindset necessary to deal with such an onslaught.

    We get plenty of debate here regarding our growing prison population from both sides of the fence. I can actually see how the “custody cartel’ wouldn’t favor legalization. I can also see how prison and street gangs wouldn’t favor the idea. Anyone interested might want to check out “LEAP” Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. I did and was impressed with their mission. It’s viable and could be a solution to the inevitable conflict to come.

    There would be serious collateral damage because many healthy bodies will be destroyed before folks decide that meth is poison, but that realization will come too. I believe the walking brain dead will bear stronger witness than all the public service ads ever will. What do you think?

  • Are you serious Joe? The reason I’m not a Libertarian are their idiotic drug views. What L.E.A.P. has proposed is the legalization of all drugs. They believe the control, production and distribution should be put in the hands of our government.

    That makes sense to you Joe? It was the money from drugs that corrupted the entire Mexican justice and political system to include mayors, police chiefs, governors, street cops, lawyers, federal officers and even the media. The only diifference here would be our government would be acting as the cartels that run Mexico now.

    Though I doubt the majority of people who use drugs now would start to, there will be a percentage that will. It might be out of curiosity, peer pressure or who knows but legalization will create addicts to some degree which will resort in more broken families, children being abandoned and a further drain on our diminishing societal resources.

    You’d see more, not less violence as LEAP claims. More people will run to get here, people who will be happier getting high than working and will sponge off the system as many of them already do.

    Our government can’t run anything competently and people want to entrust them with this? Your assumption that people will come to the realization that meth is poison is already known by users, but they use it anyway. The health problems associated with it’s use isn’t enough to stop the craving for the drug, nothings going to change that and it’s ridiculous to think otherwise.

    Trust the government to run something like this?

    No fucking way.

  • I agree 100%, Gava Joe. You presented the argument well. Legalization of drugs (certainly marijuana, at the absolute least) would solve many more problems than it would cause. Even the Terminator knows this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/us/07arnold.html

    And I completely agree with you regarding both the desire of the “custody cartel” and the drug cartels (and gangs) to keep the system broken: legalize drugs and say buh-bye to profits both direct (drug money) and indirect (prison industry uber-stocked with drug offenders). Also say good-bye to the mass murder resulting from the illegal drug trade and drug-related gangbanging.

    Alcohol prohibition was not only anti-freedom, but a miserable failure. So is the “war” on drugs. And as far as profits are concerned, I damn well prefer this being subject to legitimized market forces than controlled by the cartels in the black market. At least with sin taxes I get my indirect cut. Also, when was the last time someone was shot over a shipment of Cap’n Morgan, or Camel Lights?

    Legalization: a no-brainer.

  • “Also, when was the last time someone was shot over a shipment of Cap’n Morgan, or Camel Lights?”

    ******************

    Fight over drinks led to fatal bar shooting

    An argument over a drink led to the fatal shooting of Carl (Tony) Cohen early Sunday outside a Canton Township bar.
    Nathaniel L. Jones, 36, of Monessen, is charged with homicide and will be arraigned after his release from a Pittsburgh hospital, where he is being treated for a gunshot wound to the hand. Jones told state police that he had been at Terry’s Lounge with his girlfriend about 12:30 a.m. Sunday when a man later identified as Cohen started yelling at him. The argument was about a person Jones had purchased a drink for at the bar the night before.

    Jones thought the argument had ended. But when they went outside, Cohen started harassing Jones again, threatening him and his girlfriend, police said. Jones thought Cohen was reaching to pull out a knife, so Jones pulled out his gun, he told police. They scuffled over the gun, and it went off several times. Cohen was hit multiple times, and died of a gunshot wound to the chest. One of the rounds struck Jones in the wrist.

  • http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4080010.stm

    Police in Nigeria have detained a cow after it killed a bus driver.
    The stray animal attacked the man from behind as he was urinating on a motorway near the country’s commercial city of Lagos, a police spokesman said.

    “As the man fell down, the cow repeatedly hit him with its hooves and horns until he died,” spokesman Olubode Ojajuni told the AFP news agency

    Some people demanded the animal be shot on the spot, but a police chief in the Ojo district of Lagos ordered it to be taken alive.

    “The cow went mad, ran into a bus driver and knocked him down. Efforts to revive him were fruitless,” Mr Ojajuni told Reuters news agency.

    “You know what it will take to arrest a mad cow?” one of the policemen taking part in the operation was later quoted as saying by a local newspaper.

    “We applied ingenuity and arrested the cow, which is now being detained at the station,” he said.

  • Weed is so much different than PCP, heroin, cocaine, X and meth that to even mentioning it in the same argument is pretty meaningless.

    I’m always amazed at how little people on the left care about the welfare of kids, their all talk. I’ve seen these type arguemets way too many times from the all drug legalization support groupies to see it as a rational response. when you mention the goverment running the program, the type of corruption it would bring here or the hardships forced upon families of those who abuse drugs it’s just ignored.

    These people never care one bit about the (since Arnold’s wisdom is being thrown about) “Collateral Damage” done to families of users, not one bit. Might as well tell little Johnny dad’s not doing anything illegal so wait for your dinner, help with your school work or picking up any stray needles or pipes around the house, dad will be up for a few days and not around here. Fend for yourself kid.

    In fact, screw responsibility to anyone else, I come first.

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