Jail • LA County Jail • LASD

Three Sheriff’s Deputies Charged With Inmate Assault

April 5, 2010
by Celeste Fremon
108 Comments

Twin-Towers-Jail


Blogging will be a bit lighter today while I’m out in the field.

In the meantime, the LA Times’ Jack Leonard has the story about three Los Angeles sheriff’s deputies working in the LA county jails who allegedly beat and kicked an inmate, badly injuring him, then tried to cover their actions.

Here’s the opening.

The Los Angeles County district attorney’s office has quietly filed assault charges against three sheriff’s deputies accused of punching and kicking a jail inmate after he was disrespectful to a guard, according to court records.

Prosecutors have built their case around a sheriff’s deputy who told investigators he witnessed the beating and later met with other deputies to discuss how to cover it up, the records show.

The charges mark a rare criminal filing against deputies working in the jails: It is the third excessive-force prosecution of jail deputies in a decade, according to law enforcement records and interviews. Inmates frequently allege that deputies have used excessive force, but law enforcement officials say such cases are difficult to prove or prosecute.

Inmate Gabriel Vasquez had a fractured cheekbone and injuries to his left ear, rib cage and face in the January 2006 incident. Sheriff’s investigators initially discounted his claim that deputies caused the injuries, concluding that they were either self-inflicted or caused by other inmates, according to court records.

But investigators reopened the case after learning that a deputy who had denied seeing any injuries to Vasquez later admitted during a job interview with another police agency that he had lied about a use of force in the jail.

In a second interview with internal affairs, the deputy, Ryan Lopez, said three deputies took part in the beating. Lopez testified before a grand jury last year and was offered immunity from prosecution in exchange for truthful testimony, records say.

Read the whole story.

I hear these tales from time to time, some of them credible sounding others, less so. But even the most credible ones are tough to prove. The difference in this instance, is that a deputy came forward (in a back door kind of way).

When the inmate complained of the beating, it was assumed that he was making things up.

108 Comments

  • What can we say about the Prison Industrial Complex and it’s Draconian ways. The Powers That Be and the Robber Barons just want to beat down the victims of society.

  • This brutallity against prisoners by LA County Sheriffs Guards in nothing new, in fact it is decades old. LA Co Jail is notorius for it’s brutal treatment of prisoners if they “talk back” or act crazy. It used to be that rookie cops were given a years duty at the LA Co Jail and there they were acclimated and indoctrinated into the LA County Sherrifs Dept culture and customs. This meant keeping your mouth shut about Cop business and Cop activities that often resulted in what are referred to as “Badge Heavy” punk Cops, talking smack and rat packing any inmate not wise enough to keep his attititude in check.
    What is surprising to me in this story is the fact that the Chino Police Dept followed up on the lie dectector test and ratted off the Deputy who spilled his guts, about not only the beating and cover up at LA Co Jail but also about his having sex with a 16 year old when he was 19, smoking a little reefer, and his childhood shoplifting crimes. It sounds like this guy was at church in confession instead of a Police Dept. Surprising he didn’t get ten Our Fathers, ten Hail Mary’s and an Act of Contrition.

    But, like the Martin Luther King County Hospital, that had a decades long culture of corruption, inefficiency, and untouchable civil servant employees, that could only be remedied by shutting the whole fucking place down, firing everyone or relocating them, and starting over fresh, the horrible,nightmarish, bedlam that is LA County Jail should be shut down and maybe be run in the future by the Chino Police Dept. They seem to do a better job of screening applicants for thier police dept.

  • Don, you pretty much also throw your own claims on law enforcement right out the window with your most recent bit of bile. You think this is the first time that a Chino type incident has taken place? Years back a female cadet from a smaller department applied for an officer position and admitted to having sex with an officer at her police department when she was 17.

    The sex part was proved; the officer admitted to it but said she was 18. However, no solid date could be established as to when the sex took place. The officer was fired and the D.A.’s office was handed the investigation but declined prosecution. You know nothing about law enforcement these days Don, all you can do is retreat to when you were a kid and law enforcement was a whole different animal. What year was it that new cops (try “deputies” you’d at least have that part right) spent only a year in county? I’ve been in law enforcement since the 70’s and new “deputies” averaged three to four years back then in a custody setting. Only time it was less is if you put in for a low crime station.

    The officer I spoke of should have been fired same as we shouldn’t hire applicants with drug use, gang affiliations, or misdemeanor arrests in their backgrounds that show an alarming lack of judgment. I’m sure some of you are ok with that though long as the officer looks like one of you, pretty sad.

    Funny how at one point you’re amazed Chino did anything at all about this guy and at the end you want them running the show. By the way Don, take a wild guess at the agency where the female applied and spoke to investigators about having sex with the cop? It wasn’t Chino.

  • Sure Fire, I’ve got a better idea. How about just pointing out which points I’ve made that you think are lies, and telling us why you think they’re lies, and offering examples? Your debate style of “I’m a cop, I’m right, you guys can’t argue with me” just doesn’t seem to fly in here. It seems to me this blog allows all sides of the story, so state your side, and stop whining about somebody having an opinion that differs from yours.

    As far as your “cop hater” thing, we’ve gone over that and over that. Read my comment again. I don’t want to do away with police. I just want to replace them with more honest people. That’s not cop hate. That’s democracy.

    Sure Fire, I don’t know how you’ve made it this long in America expecting everyone to agree with you. Whatever the case, life could be a lot easier for you if you just learned to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you, and if you also learned to make your points without insulting people. Give it a try. You’d be surprised how much more pleasant life can be.

  • Also, and this is for you and Sure Fire..

    I think Deputy Ryan Lopez is a good cop, and I don’t hate him. Do you guys? Do you guys support his bravery in coming forward and testifying about cops who do need to be replaced?

  • RobThomas Says:
    April 5th, 2010 at 1:24 pm When have I ever said that I hate “gavachos”, meaning, white people?

    You said you hated white people at ITH Rob. Member? Come on. You member. Now go ahead and deny it and I’ll post the comment. BTW, go ahead and also accuse me of being WTF. LOL.

  • I never said I hate white people, here or anywhere. And, I stopped accusing you of being WTF some time ago. We had a discussion on Escalante since then, haven’t we, where I didn’t accuse of of being WTF? Sounds like you just like to bring up old drama.

  • Sure Fire, I am surprised that the Chino Police Dept followed up on the LA County jail brutality case, very pleasantly surprised though. Usually Cops will protect thier own at all costs. And if a dept like the Chino Police act in a lawful and civil way, which seems to be the case with the Ryan Lopez incident, I will applaued them for their effort every time. No bile involved here, just stating what anyone with any experience involving the LA County Jail is aware of, the existence of a culture of brutality and disrespect towards anyone unfortunate enough to be locked up in the Siberia that is the LA Couty Jail.
    And since you seem to enjoy anecdotes Sure Fire I’ll supply one here.
    I once was talking to a retired LAPD officer, who liked shooting the shit about some of the old times and characters that we both had experience with. He made a statement to me that wasn’t surprising at all, it was in connection with an old police brutality case that involved a cop who went beyond his authority and went toe to toe individually with a Chicano from a party the LAPD had angrily broken up on Riverside Dr.(Frogtown or the Valley as it was called then). This cop got the shit beaten out of him by the Chicano and lost an eye in the fight. The LAPD then all beat the dog shit out of the Chicano and took him downtown, beating his ass all the way. WHen they got to Central Division they made this guy climb the stairs, all the while kicking this guys ass. He ended up in the hospital but a rookie officer on duty reported the incident to the press.
    The old cynical cop told me laughing, “that weak motherfucker forgot one of the first things you learn at the Academy, even if you got the City Hall sticking out of your asshole you deny, deny, deny.

    So for you to deny or excuse any police misconduct like the rat packing and ass kickings given to inmates at LA County Jail doesn’t surprise me in the least.

  • BTW, ATQ, our last interaction was on the Escalante thread, where you bailed. And, yes, I accused you of being WTF without any proof, and that was baseless. I apologize for it. But that wasn’t our last interaction. In fact, i think I left a comment for you at the Escalante thread you’re yet to respond to.

  • RobThomas Says:
    April 5th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
    I never said I hate white people, here or anywhere.

    You need to back away from that statement Rob, and I’ll let bygones be bygones.
    However, if you continue to “debait” me about it, I’ll have no choice but to prove you wrong.
    Here is where you might not want to debate Rob. Here is where you might want to fight that unsatiable need to be right.
    Not trying to attack you. Not trying to be argumentative.
    Just “Answering The Question.”

  • I didn’t “bail”. I left home to visit relatives for the weekend Rob. Just got back. Checked WLA and started at the top. Haven’t gotten down to see where you posted another comment about Jaime Escalante.

    BTW, apology accepted in regards to you accusing me of being WTF.

    Trust me Rob, just back away from saying you never said you hate white people. I’m trying to help you out. We can move on if you retract that statement. You see, when I answer a question and you refute it, you’re saying I am incorrect. That’s not the case, and I know it. Even if you don’t member.

  • BTW, ATQ, I’m now helping you. I’m trying to find a link to me saying that I hate white people, too. So far, nothing.

  • Have the Mexican Mafia and Latino gangs killed and harassed black people for years? What statistics do you have to back this up with? We all know of the incidents in Highland Park in the late ’90s, thanks to Tony Rafael going over them ad nauseum. And we all know there are some Latino gangs known for harassing blacks. But to state that it’s been going on continually “for years”? How many years? And what are the numbers? What percentage of murders can be attributed to Latino gangs targeting blacks?

  • When have I claimed to be a gang expert? Are you guys insane? Where are you coming up with this stuff? Sure Fire is the one who claimed to be a gang expert. I asked him to prove it, since I hadn’t seen anything indicative of it in his comments, and he’s still yet to.

  • You’re wrong WTF. StillNoscript and SNS claimed to be gang experts. Rob Thomas never has.

    There now Rob. I’ve got your back.

  • Those articles are only stories about certain Latino gangs targeting blacks, they don’t demonstrate that Latino gangs have been harassing and killing blacks “for years” as you claimed.

  • WTF, those videos do not back up your point. you said that the Mexican Mafia and Latino gangs have been harassing and killing blacks for years. You’re still yet to name which individual Latino gangs have done this. I’ll spot you the Avenues in the late ’90s. That’s one Latino gang, not all. Try again.

  • WTF, you are bringing up individual accounts of certain gangs having targeted African Americans, individual accounts I am already aware of, btw. You, on the other hand, have NOT proven in any way that the Mexican Mafia and/or Latino gangs, in general, I’m assuming, because you haven’t specified, have been harassing and killing blacks “for years”.

  • R.T.
    You just said the Highland Park gang has harassed and killed blacks back in the 90’s, your “de-baiting” skills suck.

    Do you need to see proof that every latino gang in L.A. has killed many blacks, before you will acknowledge latino
    gangs and mexican mafia are racist?

    Even your friend D.Q. writes about the decades of racsim among gangs. You don’t remeber his tear jerking story about listening to african-american Gospel singers at the request of the shot callers while in juvie(mero-meros).

    http://witnessla.com/juvenile-justice/2010/admin/art-saves-poetry-opera-at-juvie/#comments

    “Almost fifty years ago at Eastlake Juvie, on a Christmas Eve, I recall clearly the dark mood that was felt by all the inmates. At the risk of sounding like a racist, I will say that racism was rampant and institutional in those days”

    “Us Chicano kids were almost all gang members, and a very rigid, clannish, cultural animosity towards African Americans was the rule.”

  • WTF, I need to see proof that the Mexican Mafia and Latino gangs have been harassing innocent blacks for years. That’s too ambiguous. I can’t tell if you’re saying that all Latino gangs are harassing and/or killing blacks, or just some. Since you’re yet to retract, I can only assume you mean all, which is pure bullshit. And I await your proof that it’s not. So far, all you’ve given is individual accounts of certain Latino gangs targeting blacks. That doesn’t back up your original, outrageous statement.

  • R.T.

    Below is my original comment, which I will post again, since you have no reading comprehension, as usual you are wrong. My original comment is true and has been documented many times in the news.

    What is outrageous about the statement below? You even proved my point with your comment about “We all know of the incidents in Highland Park” in the late ’90s. And for your further education, I knew about the murders (Not Incidents) in Highland Park from Christine Pelisek articles in the L.A. Weekly.

    http://www.streetgangs.com/topics/2005/071405ave.html

    *******************************

  • WTF, you’ve done a good job of proving that some Latino gangs have targeted African Americans, but not that all Latino gangs have, or even all southern California Latino gang. You haven’t even proved that most Latino gangs in southern california target blacks. You’ve only proven that some do. For all you know, blacks and Latinos in LA can be kicking it together and listening to hip hop. You’re yet to prove otherwise.

  • Rob,
    After watching CSI for a few years we both know that as long as you are denying being StillNoScript or SNS or any variation thereof what I am presenting is a circumstantial case. The circumstances led me to believe that you and StillNoScript, SNS, and the many variations thereof were the same person. Why? Back at BITH, when the following statement was made:

    “Isn’t it amazing how Script preaches tolerance,”

    and SNS replies:

    “When have I ever preached tolerance?”

    It is only natural to conclude that StillNoscript and SNS are the same person. If I am wrong Rob, please accept my apology. I went where the evidence took me.
    I wonder if there’s anybody in here who thinks StillNoscript, SNS and Rob Thomas are the same person.

  • ATQ, you have the right to believe whatever you want. I also have the right to tell you that you’re confused. I’m not SNS, or StillNoScript. Yet I do await your proof to the contrary.

  • Didn’t Ronald Reagan say something about people talking about what they “don’t” know, ATQ? You fit that bill right now.

  • Sorry Celeste. Not trying to be small or petty. Just refuting being called a liar. Not trying to cause you grief.
    I’m ready to move on.

  • ATQ, I’m not calling you a liar. I’m just saying you’re confused. You have me mixed up with someone else. Dont’ be so sensitive.

  • WTF, you and ATQ spell debate “debait”, yet I’m not saying you guys are the same person.

  • I can’t PROVE it was you who made the statements. I don’t have your IP address. We both know that.

    Of course, if I really wanted to show an extreme lack of intelligence I would say: “You can’t prove you’re not SNS or StillNoscript”.

    That would be like saying: “You can’t prove Escalante didn’t seek legal recourse”.

  • I have been out all day and came back to find 53 comments on this thread, about 2/3 or which are arguments about who may or may not use what screen names, and may or may not have said something at other blogs, plus a rash of people calling others liars and/or racists.

    As a consequence I have just done a bunch of random deleting and editing. It is preposterous that it has come to this.

    If I edited or deleted something of yours that you think was wrongly done, you may very well be right. But I’m fed up.

    There is some actual discussion in here. But far too little of it.

    BTW, for the record (this relates to a deleted comment), Although Tony Rafael/Wally of In the Hat used to attack me on his blog years ago, we get along just fine now. Even back then, I never took it personally.

    You are all smart people here. But this hammering each other back and forth in a way that attacks the person, not the issue, is grindingly boring and it drives other commenters away, whom you might otherwise enjoy debating.

  • ATQ, you’re the one who quotes SNS and attributed his comments to me. How you could assume this without knowing it is only something you know. If you don’t have proof of something, you should probably let it go. Because the burden of proof is going nowhere.

  • If you’ll go back and read the post, you’ll notice I put in quotations “debait”. Later in the same post I spelled it correctly. Why you think I did that?
    Come on man. You can’t be misled that easy can you?

    By the way. I remeber Celeste posting something about an IP address in Indian Wells and another in a different place.
    Like I said Rob, what if Gava Joe ????????????????????
    Give it a break Rob. We’ve been down this road before. You remember what happened last time.

  • ATQ, I was just pointing that you and WTF were using the same spelling of a word. What road have we gone down, and what happened?

  • I apologize to Celeste Fremon, Rob Thomas and any and all commenters on or readers of this blog for my childish behaviour. It was my belief that Rob Thomas has commented under different names in the past and at other blogs that lead me to this immature and boorish display of argumentativeness. I was wrong to do this. I will try my best to refrain from this behaviour in the future.

  • In comment #19 I got Rob’s back. Trying to be friendly.

    Now I’ll wade in on his argument with WTF about Mexican gangs targeting blacks that him and WTF are currently engaged in.

    Isn’t the Mexican Mafia, sworn enemies of the black prison gangs? Haven’t they been that way since their inception?

    That’s what I’ve read, seen on Gangland During that show Mexican gang members from southern California said that themselves.

    Does the Mexican Mafia not call the shots for every Sureno gang member? That would include all of the gangs under the Mexican Mafia’s flag.

    Didn’t they have a bunch of race riots in the LA jail a few years ago because the Mexican Mafia gave the order?

    Just Answering The Question. Maybe I should change my label to “Answering Rob’s Questions” LOL.

  • I didn’t think it was too interesting Gava Joe. I thought it was OBVIOUS. LOL.

  • “I apologize to Celeste Fremon, Rob Thomas and any and all commenters on or readers of this blog for my childish behaviour.”

    Apology noted and accepted, but as Celeste has stated numerous times, just knock it off.
    Keep Witness LA free from paranoia and mindless off topic chatter.

  • Rob, go back through the thread. Enough. I deleted and you guys continued anyway. Let it go.

    I think Gava Joe’s got it right. Alternately, if we took the thread and set it to music, with the right beat it could work. But as a comment thread, not so much.

    Now I’m going back to work.

  • I’ll lay this to rest for you real quick Rob. You claimed I called you names in a post where I called you no names prior to it, that was an absolute lie. You apparently didn’t want to answer so you made that lie up. You also claimed that I said you have to have a Masters Degree to be a cop, I said to “lead a department” you had better have one. That’s just another blatant lie and I corrected you on the other thread but you brought your lie to this one.

    Those aren’t the only examples of your lies about what I’ve said Rob, just the most recent. Your constant hate posts directed at cops, based only on your sad feelings are crazy in comparison to you wanting example after example of the well documented racist crimes perpetrated against blacks by Hispanic gangs. People could shove proof under your nose all day and you’ll still want more. Anyone who plays that game with you is nuts. I’m through with you, there’s nothing you have to say of importance on any subject.

    Don, you’re still going back in time to make your point. I’m the first to admit there’s a history of bad behavior with some officers that was a disgrace to law enforcement. To say it’s that way now is ridiculous. A few weeks back the Riverside police chief was involved in an off duty d.u.i. and the initial officers didn’t do the job they should have. The chief has since resigned, plead out and any officers that were shown to not have acted in the correct manner will be disciplined. Chino PD acted in the manner most officers and pd’s act but you still believe we’re in the 70’s, we’re not.

    There are going to be incidents like those happen from time to time and the overwhelming majority of officers know that to cover up for other officers simply isn’t going to be tolerated. You have to stop sounding like Rob though because I never said what you claimed below.

    “So for you to deny or excuse any police misconduct like the rat packing and ass kickings given to inmates at LA County Jail doesn’t surprise me in the least”.

    Show me where I said it. I’ll be waiting.

  • ATQ, I don’t believe the Mexican Mafia “calls the shots” for every Sureno gang member. Sureno gang member meaning Latino gang member from Los Angeles, I presume. Nor have I seen a shred of proof that they do. I’ve read some accounts that suggest that, but haven’t seen proof of it. I also consider it impossible. Considering how large the Latino population in Los Angeles is, and how many Latino gangs there are? I don’t buy it for one second. I too have seen those ganglands. And, those guys with their faces and voices scrambled making their blanketed threats are very scary, but should I consider a guy whose identity is being hidden as a credible source?

  • Also, I think if blacks, in general, were the sworn enemy of most, or even a significant number, of Latino gangs in Los Angeles, we’d be seeing a blood bath much worse than the incidents of interracial violence we have seen, considering the Latino population vs. the black population in Los Angeles. I believe what we’ve seen is an indication that the Mexican Mafia controls SOME Latino street gangs in Southern California, but not all. In fact, not even most. I’ve seen and read the accounts by many so called “experts”, law enforcement and otherwise, and I just don’t see the statistics to back up their claims.

  • Rob,
    LOL. Are you suggesting I roll with your opinion of what is or isn’t credible over the producers of Gangland?
    Are you serious? Come on now. Quit joking around. You aren’t seriously going to suggest that their technical advisors aren’t as up to snuff as you when it comes to gang knowledge. Quit joking around. Move on to another topic.

  • What are you talking about Celeste? Rob asked me in post#5 to provide examples and I did, so what’s the problem? Don claimed I said things that are not here so I asked him to show here I posted anything like he said.

    That’s somehow too much to ask? They can have any opinion they want but when talking about another posters words shouldn’t they at least get it right instead of just throwing out lies?

    Give me a break.

    By the way I agree with the post above mine.

  • I thought the MM was taxing drug sales in southern CA because they controlled the Sureno gang members. I thought the gangs all paid taxes. I thought if they didn’t pay taxes they were put on a hit list. Maybe that isn’t true either. Maybe all of the printed material and expos’e tv shows are full of shit. Maybe Rob does know what’s up and the “experts” are just making shit up as they go along.

    Just for the hell of it, I googled “Mexican Mafia hating blacks” and a bunch of info. came up. Even about some Azusa gang member who testified about it in court. He’s most likely full of shit too. I think I’ll roll with Rob’s opinion on this.

  • I’m not suggesting you agree with me, ATQ. I’m only stating what I believe. If you want to believe gangaland, that’s your right. I’m going to believe the numbers. The murder rates in Los Angeles just don’t back up the theories that a) the Mexican Mafia controls ALL Latino street gangs in Los Angeles, and b) That all Latino gangs are killing blacks per the order of the Mexican mafia. I think if this were really happening, we’d be seeing something far worse than what we’re seeing.

  • Sure Fire, I am not going back to the stone age for proof of brutality and cover up at the LA County Jail. What I am saying is that this kind of conduct does go way back in time, and obviously continues until today. It’s a sick culture that has been allowed to blossom at LACJ, and for proof of the continuing problem all you have to do is go back and read the post that Celeste has provided above. The Vasquez brutality took place in the last couple of years and I would be willing to bet that it continues daily.
    It’s the culture that was born and nurtured at LA County Jail. It needs to be stopped and hopefully the Chino PD has helped in this endeavor.
    As far as a Chicano gang mentallity of racism towards African American gangs, yes it does exist, and is also nurtured and directed from the Calif Prisons, the same thing with African American street gangs who direct thier violence against Mexican Americans, even innocent Mexican Americans. It’s a horrible attitude that mimics the national discourse on race, but it’s not the attitude of the majority of the people of Los Angeles.
    There’s plenty of blame to go around, but the topic should be how it can be ended and not the singling out of Mexican AMericans as a kind of whipping boy for a sick national attitude. The racist shit I hear continuously on the radio airways directed toward our first African AMerican President makes the gang crap pale in comparison.
    The first step in correcting a problem is the admission that a problem exists and not apologizing or covering it up.

  • Ssshhhhh. Somebody might point out that hating and killing are two different things. They might point out that there is in fact documented proof that MM members have in fact ordered the killings of blacks simply because they were black. Well, proof enough that a jury convicted them in court. Definitely not enough proff for me and Rob though.
    That could happen if we keep pushing the issue Rob.

  • The Mexican Mafia may very well be taxing drug dealers in Los Angeles. That sounds believable. And they could certainly do it. I was convinced of that after seeing the film “American Me” nearly 20 years ago. “You control the inside, you own the outside”. The Mexican Mafia, being the most powerful gang in prison, could easily extort drug dealers on the street. But order a genocide of a race…on the streets? No. Even if they tried, it wouldn’t happen. And I believe that most Latino gangs would either ignore such orders, or find a way to circumvent them. And, I’m pretty sure the Mexican Mafia’s drug extortion operation doesn’t go swimmingly. I’m sure there are Latino gangs in L.A. that refuse to pay them. Basically, ATQ, there is almost NO evidence whatsoever that the Mexican Mafia controls all L.A. Latino gangs. Just some hearsay from so called experts in law enforcement.

  • I think if this were really happening, we’d be seeing something far worse than what we’re seeing.

    Oh, I get it now. Like, if you said,

    I think if the Tea Partiers were as racist and violent as the “experts” claim we’d be seeing something far worse than what we’re seeing.

    Very good point Rob.

  • That is a very good point, ATQ. The tea party movement is showing signs of becoming a criminal element like a prison gang, although probably not as organized, or smart.

  • Rob,
    We’ll just suffice it to say that it’s documented by people that tv producers pay money to for their expertise. It’s been testified to in court. Juries bought it.

    That doesn’t mean it’s true. I’m taking your opinion over theirs Rob.

  • What jury bought what, ATQ? That ALL Latino gangs in Los Angeles are targeting blacks? What case?

  • So, what we’ve learned here today is that neither the Mexican Mafia nor the Tea Partiers are as racist or violent as the “experts” say.
    Okay then. Thanks for backing up the Tea Baggers Rob.

  • And thank you for equating the Tea Baggers to a criminal element, ATQ. I’d have to concur.

  • Lesson learned Rob. Before you can make a blanket statement about collective groups of people being racists or violent. you need to be able to PROVE that every person in that group is guilty of said blanket statement.

    Like, when the “experts” say the Tea Partiers are a racist and violent collective group, if they can’t prove EVERY member is racist or violent they are full of shit.

    I got it Rob. I’m with you. We have to be careful when making generalizing statements or labeling people. Unless we can PROVE every single member of that group is like that we shouldn’t make those statements.
    Lesson learned Rob. Got it.

  • So, we’ll suffice it to say that when anybody claims the MM is racist and violent they are full of shit.
    And when anybody says the Tea Partiers are racist and viloent they are full of shit.

    Got it. Excellent lesson. Thanks Rob.

  • Me and Rob are finally on the same page. You go boy. I never realized your vast wealth of knowledge.

  • I’m with you, too, ATQ. Mentioning the Tea Baggers and the Mexican Mafia in the same light is certainly warranted, considering the threatening behavior of the tea baggers lately.

    Back to the topic, I never said the Mexican Mafia wasn’t racist, or violent.

  • I don’t think we’re on the same page regarding the Mexican Mafia. But we are the tea baggers, that’s for sure. They are behaving like a prison gang. Again, probably not as smart, though.

  • By calling the Tea Partiers “Tea Baggers” that’s not demeaning them simply for their political position. I just want to ensure that when I call them Tea Baggers I’m not being hypocritcal of my tolerant views. I want to know that it’s ok. I wouldn’t want to be classified as somebody who puts labels on people.
    Like when those right wing nuts say things about people that are demeaning and classless simply because they don’t agree with their political position. Those idiots call people vile names and say vile things. I’m certainly glad me and Rob aren’t stooping to their level of bigotry and displaying intolerance.
    I’m with Rob. I hear ya. That’s why I’m completely ok with the term Tea Bagger.

  • I don’t think “tea bagger” is nearly as offensive as the word one of the tea baggers used against a black congressman a couple of weeks ago. “tea bag” is wordplay. It doesn’t demean someone based on race, nor even religion.

  • Labeling people with demeaning names is incredibly intolerant. I once saw a post on this blog where a guy labeled a whole group of people “freaks” because of their religious views. Can you believe that? Not tolerant guys like me and Rob. We steer clear of that type of behaviour.

  • Rob,
    I want to see that on video just so my blood can boil. That guy should have been arrested and charged with a hate crime. Where can I go to see or hear where a Tea Bagger did that?

  • I don’t know who you’re referring to, but I’ll bet you he was labeling them as freaks based upon their behavior, and not their religious views alone.

  • I member Celeste deleted the post because the commenter referred to Christians as “freaks”. Celeste certainly would not stand for that type of intolerance. Good for her.
    That’s the type of thing that we need to be ever vigilant against, and me and Rob are leading the way.

  • Back to the Tea Bagger calling a black congressman an offensive name. That is intolerable. I want to see this on tv or hear it on some type of audio so I can refer to it myself in the future.
    How come I haven’t heard or seen anything about this Rob? No You-Tube? No tv camera? No arrest? In todays day and age their would have to be some type of documentation to prove this happened. Right? I want to see it. I want to hear it. I want to be able to point to it and tell my children that I better NEVER see or hear them use this word.
    Where can I get proof a racially offensive word was used by a Tea Bagger?

  • Next thing you know those intolerant Tea Baggers will be throwing eggs at people who disagree with them.

  • Alright, guys. We’re getting back into the mud pit Celeste told us to stay out of. I don’t feel I have anything enlightening to add to the convo any longer, and I’m certainly not reading anything enlightening. So for now…

  • Bud,
    Rob Thomas has emphatically denied that he ever posted as StillNoscript or SNS, and NOBODY can prove it.
    So it does no good to go back down that road. SNS is on record at BITH saying he hates white people. But as Rob says, that’s not him.

    If ROB says he never made all those vile hateful statements about Republicans, NASCAR fans, hillbillies and rednecks we have NO choice but to take his word for it. I for one choose to believe him and challenge anyone to prove otherwise.
    If he says he NEVER posted something to the effect of
    “I don’t care if you call me a hater, as long as you make it clear that it’s white people I hate”
    We have NO choice to believe him. This Rob on THIS BLOG is a tolerant and caring human being. He proves it nearly every day. He preaches tolerance and lambasts those that display intolerance. Why should we believe he would be different at another blog?

  • It sounds like you want me to be tolerant of racists, ATQ, and I just don’t bend that way.

  • Goodnight Rob. I’ll get with you tomorrow so you can tell me where I can find the evidence of the Tea Bagger using racially insensitive or offensive language. I am looking forward to pointing out that intolerant knucklehead as a bad example to my children. I can wait. Take your time. I know this is proveable because you would never make a baseless allegation that you couldn’t prove. You’re better than that. Me and you know it, even if the other folks like Bud don’t.
    I’ll be waiting.

  • OK, Answering the Question, I’ll get right to the office at 9am tomorrow and get that video to you. I wouldn’t want to get written up.

  • Rob,
    In regards to post 85, No way. Never. I’ve NEVER said that. Sorry if you somehow took that implication from any of my statements.
    I cannot stand intolerance, in any form. That’s why I’m so anxious to show the video or audio of a Tea Bagger using the N word to my children. I want to show them how vulgar and disgusting this is and say: “I better not catch you doing this”.

  • Well, I don’t agree with you. I think people should be intolerant of people who are dangerous, and I think a lot of these fringe right wing groups like the Tea Party are dangerous.

  • Man you’re funny Rob. Comment 87 is hilarious. I get it. Like you’re going to get right on it just because I asked you to. I get the humorous sarcasm. And it is funny. I’m sorry if I seemed pushy. Take all the time you need. A negative lesson that valuable is worth waiting for. Take all the time you need.

  • You said all the time I need. Comment #90. And, I’m taking it. Every last second of it.

  • RobThomas Says:
    April 5th, 2010 at 9:20 pm
    and I think a lot of these fringe right wing groups like the Tea Party are dangerous.

    RobThomas Says:
    April 5th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
    I think if this were really happening, we’d be seeing something far worse than what we’re seeing.

    You must be getting tired. You’re contradicting yourself. That’s ok. No sweat. Even great minds become fatigued.

  • I never specified the exact threat of the fringe right wing groups, just said they’re getting dangerous. I never said they controlled all white gangs across the country. You did say, however, that the Mexican Mafia controls all Latino gangs in Los Angeles. So, it must be you who’s getting tired.

  • Now why would you have a problem with anyone kissing Celeste’s ass, Bud? Sounds like you have an ax to grind with her.

  • Hmmm, who else had an ax to grind with Celeste, and also seemed to yammer on about this Mexican Mafia controlling all gangs thing? Oh, Tony Rafael. Probably just a coincidence.

  • Rob,
    I thought you were leaving because there was nothing enlightening being said here? But you stayed. You little backdoor complimenter you. By staying you’re really saying that my posts are enlightening aren’t you? Thanks for the compliment buddy. What a caring giving human being you are.
    If more people could just be like you the world would be a better place.
    Unfortunately I have to leave now. Of course, I will really be leaving for the night. I’m not able to say one thing and do the other without sounding like an idiot. You on the other hand, pull that off really slick. Props my friend.
    So when I say bye bye, it’s really bye bye for now.
    Talk to you soon. Thanks for the lessons.

  • Well, I felt I had some enlightening responses to some of the comments being made. I said I was going to leave because I had I had nothing enlightening to say, as well as there being nothing enlightening to read. There’s still nothing enlightening to read, but I’m enjoying fielding your comments.

  • http://streetgangs.com/topics/2008/090608gangster.html

    I’m sure Rob won’t believe this link but it’s very accurate. That the MM could get MS to change their name to incorporate 13 into it to show loyalty to MM shows just how powerful they are and speaks to the juice they have. That’s not mentioned in the link, but it happened.

    18th St, MS-13, and Mexican cartels that Rob’s claimed could run this country better than Republicans are all part of the MM tax base. That’s not to mention the countless smaller gangs that roam the streets and terrorize the citizens of Southern California.

    Could be worse though, they could all be run by middle-aged white people who as we all know are the real danger in this country.

  • RobThomas Says:
    April 5th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
    Now why would you have a problem with anyone kissing Celeste’s ass, Bud? Sounds like you have an ax to grind with her.

    Not at all Script, oop’s I mean Rob. I respect this blog and Celeste to a certain point. It just makes me sick to see you baiting people, resorting to personal attacks and doing all the things that she has threatened to delete other people for, but you Rob and Reg seems to get away saying whatever you want and she just shakes her finger at you guy’s and issues “a stern warning”.
    And NO Rob I’m not Wally. I’m sure if Wally wanted to comment here , he would comment under the name Wally.

  • 101.RobThomas Says:
    April 5th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
    I suppose Bud will be leaving now, too. lol.

    I’m sure it won’t be long, but that’s OK I’ve been banned from other places for speaking the truth too. Sometimes the truth hurts and sometimes one has to be the sacrafice so others can tell it like it is.

  • Sure Fire, next time give me a link to murder rates that would indicate that Mexican Mafia has control of all Latino street gangs in Los Angeles, and that they’ve ordered these gangs to kill all blacks. The murder statistics simply do not back that very heightened version of Los Angeles’s current interracial gang issues.

  • Well, bud, I think you already figured it out. I get away with it because I kiss her ass. I’m not ashamed of it. Celeste is worthy of ass kissing. I like her work. Sue me.

  • Bud, I seriously doubt you would get banned here for speaking the truth. But if really think you would, why don’t you try it sometime and see what happens?