Still no TVs that any of us can find at Bennington (in all seriousness) but fortunately I’m able to watch the debate on the Web.
Missed the Republicans. But I’m now staring at the Democrats as, I’m assuming, many of the rest of you are.
From the beginning, it’s been a fascinating dynamic. Hilary took a chance and went on the attack and it backfired right away. She looks like she’s shooting from a defensive position. She did her usual attack on Obama for his health care plan. He seem dignified and even presidential in his response. She seemed unnecessarily agressive.
While Obama took the high ground, when the ball was handed to Edwards, he turned bad cop to Obama’s good cop.
“Every time we speak out for change,” he said, “the forces of status quo are going to attack.”
Oooh, snap!
“I didn’t hear these attacks from Senator Clinton when she was ahead. And now she’s making them.”
Richardson had been quiet, but when he got a minute to speak, he got the first big laugh. “I’ve been in hostage negotiations that are more civil than this.”
On the Iraq war Hillary tried to have it both ways. She said the surge is good, but the Iraqi government isn’t stepping up to the plate and the Bush administration is screwing up. (Although she was less than specific as to how.) Yet she said all this in a rather unfocused stream that, in the end, was less than effective. She also said that she’ll start bring people home. (As has everyone.) But it sounded more like a “draw down” than any kind of significant withdrawal of forces. Overall it was a split message, which I believe will be problematic for her.
On the same subject, Barack sounded knowledgeable yet firm, and he hit all the important points that those disenchanted by the war want to hear. It was a risk, but my bet is it will be a successful one. He found his footing in this debate in a way that wasn’t really evident in the previous debates.
Edwards and Richardson also advocated for getting the troops out in much clearer terms that Clinton. Interesting the way the three of them have differentiated themselves from Clinton. One sometimes wonders if there is any behind-the-scenes, track 2 negotiating going on between the various camps.
To Clinton’s credit, in the second half, she started to tone down the attack dog routine. She did, however, play the girl card.
“I am an agent of change,” she said. “If the first woman is elected president, that’ll be a big change.”
(NOTE to John Edwards: You really must stop it with the Working in the Mill routine. Use it on the stump, if you must, John. But as a TV audience we are wa-a-a-aaay over it.)
Maybe it’s my fatigue, but the questions from the moderators have seemed generally more agressive, and that’s a good thing.
Obama talked over and over about the need to bring the people into the process and to inspire them, that this is the only way to shift the status quo….
In the end, Obama feels like the leader and the front runner. Next Tuesday we’ll see if he really is.
Okay, no more from me. I’m fighting a cold so am going to Zzzzzzzzzzzz. (Please forgive any appalling typos. I’ll catch ’em in the morning.)
Let me know what you think–about the Dems and Republicans.
Wow, I respect your opinion, but to me, Obama really did not seem to fare well this evening. Honestly, Richardson had more scoring points than he did by far.
Kari, maybe I’m seeing what I want to see. It’s hard to tell. (All the cold medicine and the nose blowing may be hampering my judgment.)
Let’s see what the others thought.
Thanks for some of the play-by-play – I’ll go search out some footage (we’re sans TV here).
If elected President, I promise a television for every household and dorm room.
Women who want a woman president ought to be able to offer a better one than Rodham-Clinton.
Celeste, Alabama has televisions–much more advanced than Vermont and warmer, too. Transfer to a college there and get your degree in accounting instead.
Congratulations to ABC and Charlie Gibson for hosting/moderating the best debates so far. Having the candidates sitting around a table was also much better.
I still remember that idiot Tim Russert who talked more than the candidates when he was a moderator. No NBC and Tim Russert ever again!!!
Obama and Richardson did a good job and Edwards need to get a $10.00 haircut so I don’t just “analyze” his haircut. Hilary needs to work on her likability factor if she wants to have a chance at winning, people vote with their heart not just on the issues. Hilary came across as annoying to me. Hilary’s best moment came at the end when she pointed out the difference between the democrats and the republicans. The democrats talked about jobs, economy and health care. And the republicans talked about war and terrorists. Hopefully the republicans will continue to debate the exact same issues at the debates and guarantee their defeat.
I have to second that Gibson – although not my ideal – did the best, least-embarrassing-to -the-moderaters debate so far. I liked that he let Hillary and Obama engage each other directly for a bit. And John Edwards deserves all of our gratitude for drawing the line where it matters most. I’m beginning to think there’s the makings of an Obama-Edwards ticket, which I would have dismissed a while back. Still not sure on that one, because they have very similiar strengths and weaknesses, but it would make for one hell of a campaign.
I’m not surprised you couldn’t find a TV there. The rap on Bennington is that its the place that the upper middle class in Darien and New Canaan send their artsy daughters (you know – the dance major) to luxieriate in the country. It was hippie heaven in the late sixties – early seventies and must have been the place that put birkenstocks on the map (sorry as a Bowdoinite in the days of its all male ascendency I remember the place well!).
NPR is putting the debates on this afternoon so I’ll wait till tmr to comment. Missed the fun last nite!
You live in L.A. so it doesn’t work for you but think about all the regular people outside the urban areas who are facing a shrinking economy and may have weathered a few ugly economic storms already, it might resonate with them very well I think.
Not so Sure I live in OC and used to live in LA but I say “Amen”. And I bet plenty here think that way now that Douglas and North American and Lockheed are memories.
Just to be clear, I think the Mill rap is important and valid, but it loses it’s power when repeated to the degree that Edwards has done. In a case like that, it’s better to find a different way to say it and use it with smaller audiences who may not have heard it, not repeatedly with a national audience who, even if moved the first five times, is growing restive by time fifteen.
BTW, like Edwards a lot, even if I sound critical and agree with Reg that an Obama/Edwards ticket could potentially be very exciting, if it isn’t viewed as too progressive.
RLC, Bennington’s undergrad once had—and may still have, for all I know— much the reputation you talk about, but their graduate writing program is a whole other deal and has a great reputation. The faculty is excellent, which is what drew me—that and the fact that it’s low residency, as I can’t just go away to school for two years, nor do I want to.
Summers in Vermont are much better than Bama.
Summers in Vermont are only two weeks long.
I did like actually SEEING Edwards much-discussed parents in the audience. Their presence at the debate did give what has often seemed to me too much of a “schtick” an authentic face and feel.
That argument might have traction in the Canadian Rockies, but Vermont has nice summers.
“RG” – I think you’re going back to school at just the right age. I would love to enter the journalism program at UC-Berkeley about now. Of course, I don’t have the degree, the money or the time necessary, but it would be my dream “late-life” career change since I have no desire to retire but I’m kind of bored, would enjoy spending more time with real people and often crave the relative freedom of print.
I meant “RD” i.e. Celeste’s old nom-de-Cooperstown
Speaking of debates and leaders, I’ve been waiting for this:
If a Bhutto must run Pakistan, why not Fatima?
from Teeth Maestro http://tinyurl.com/yp5ygj
Listener, you beat me to it. I was just about to blog about it. (I’m going to anyway.) Good link.
Yes, Edwards is overdoing the Coal Miner’s/Mill Worker’s son thing, even dragging the parents to the debate and pointing to duly warn-looking dad a couple of times, talking about how he walked out of a restaurant because he couldn’t afford the meal (didn’t they have a menu posted in the window?) — and how “his time has come in America.” I don’t know, I’d like to think we can focus on industries and issues a few revolutions beyond mining (not that mine safety isn’t a big issue now) and milling — like nuclear energy (which powers 80% of France) and solar/ clean fuel alternatives, less dependence on gas and coal in general.
At least Huck didn’t drag his parents to the debates to hold up their worn-to-the-bone hands which paid for that $99 J C Penney guitar. Thompson has been outed for driving his red pick-up only the last 2 blocks to a rally — and he speaks too slowly and messes us details. McCain may be right that Obama has no details to back up HOW he’d set about change: his single-payer healthcare system (and Edwards’, maybe Hillary’s?) would bankrupt America, his wanting to issue the enemy a timeline to withdraw from Iraq is naive (typical of his naivite on foreign affairs when he musters any details), and he can be two-faced or at best indecisive, as Bill Clinton says: besides Iraq, he tells illegals in L A at a rally that he’s for easing “path to citizenship,” but talks nationally more about enforcement of ICE laws and deporting criminals. Bill Richardson is right, that the White House is no place for on-the-job training, and Obama has no executive experience. But Richardson, who has the most of the Dems remaining (Dodd and Biden had the most and are gone), scores lowest in opinion polls. One good thing he’s done, though, is shaken up all the “established leaders,” made them all rethink their campaigns and work for it. `’s not going to last the distance with these empty words, though: especially once people get sick of Edwards’ shtick and foil persona, and it’s just him and Hillary going at it.
Unlike the rest of you or much of America, I see this as a sign of how easy it is to bamboozle the American public with smooth words and promising all things to all people, especially with some “homely homilies.”
It’s true that Hillary hasn’t hit on a “persona,” though: Is she “Mom,” the reassuring figure; a kick-ass Senator and foreign policy negotiator, a conciliator between parties? Her using the Boss’ music is good (trans-generational) but Dolly Parton? Maybe they’re right, though — that stuff is what’s selling the southern snake-oil salesmen to the public. But I’d still like to see someone use the Black Eyed Peas and duet with Fergie, really shake things up.
The writing program probably is good. Didn’t Brad Eston Ellis go there? And as an undergrad?
Woody, you don’t give the place credit. Why summers in northern new england are AT LEAST three weeks long!
Glad to hear positive comments about Gibson. I also thought he did a pretty decent job, but I haven’t run across any commentary on his performance.
p.s. I think trading Celene Dion for Fergie is something of a lateral move.
“his single-payer healthcare system (and Edwards’, maybe Hillary’s?) would bankrupt America”
Obama doesn’t have a single-payer healthcare plan, all of the Dem plans would save money on healthcare over the longrung and you’re just about the dumbest – and most boring – motherfucker I’ve ever come across.