Saturday night, I was having dinner with my friend, the shrink, when the subject of the presidential election came up. We talked about Obama, Clinton…and then McCain. My friend noted that McCain seems like a likable man with an interesting and complicated wife who is clearly a bright woman.
“But what I don’t understand,” she said, “is why no one has done a psychological analysis of John McCain—in particular how his Vietnam experience has affected his present day foreign policy outlook. No one even talks about it,” she said. “And not to talk about the connection is….well….ridiculous.”
Good news. As of Sunday, someone is talking about it. Sunday’s must read is in the New York Times Magazine—specifically the article titled The McCain Doctrines by Matt Bai.
I don’t know that I agree with all Bai’s conclusions, nor do I know if my friend would. (We haven’t talked since we both read the Sunday papers.) But the article is an opening salvo in the conversation that we must have—-about McCain and about all others who would serve in high public office: Who are they and how have their experiences shaped them?
The older I get, the more I believe that psychology is everything. And to fail to apprehend that fact is foolish at best, dangerous at worst. (Iraq is a catastrophe because of a failure of psychological analysis of a culture. Those in charge of American policy projected their own thoughts and desires on the Iraqi people and were shocked, shocked when the on the ground reality failed to conform with the projection.)
In any case, read the article and tell me what you think. Here is the opening:
Whatever their disagreements on policy, United States senators, even in today’s hyperpolitical climate, are reluctant to impugn one another’s motives or integrity.
That’s doubly true among those who experienced combat in the Vietnam War, a group that now includes four sitting senators — the Republicans John McCain and Chuck Hagel and the Democrats John Kerry and Jim Webb — as well as former colleagues like Bob Kerrey, Max Cleland and Chuck Robb. These men share an obvious bond, and over the years they have more readily crossed partisan lines than other senators, constituting, in some ways, a party unto themselves. To outsiders, they give the impression of having seen things in their youth that confer a different kind of perspective on mere politics; they seem to know that there are worse things in life than losing an election and having to go home. In contrast to the insecurities of the many boomer politicians who avoided service in Vietnam or marched against it, the Senate’s former soldiers exude a confidence that goes beyond military matters.
The war in Iraq has tested some of these friendships, however. Last year, after House Democrats voted to set a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, McCain and Webb — both of whom were featured heroes in a classic book on the era, Robert Timberg’s “Nightingale’s Song” — became embroiled in an unusually public disagreement. After McCain pointedly said the enemy in Iraq was celebrating along with Democrats, Webb accused him of unfairly questioning other people’s patriotism. When Webb and Hagel (a close personal friend of McCain’s) proposed a bill to give troops leaving Iraq and Afghanistan more time at home before redeploying, McCain, whose 19-year-old son has served with the Marines in Iraq, forcefully opposed them, saying the troops were needed in the theater. More recently, McCain has found himself on the opposite side of Webb and Hagel again, this time over their “G.I. bill” that would offer education money to every returning veteran. McCain and others want a more limited bill that would encourage rank-and-file soldiers to re-enlist rather than return to civilian life.
In these skirmishes, McCain is the outlier. Among his fellow combat veterans in the Senate, past and present, he is the only one who has continued to champion the war in Iraq….[SNIP]
….There is a feeling among some of McCain’s fellow veterans that his break with them on Iraq can be traced, at least partly, to his markedly different experience in Vietnam. McCain’s comrades in the Senate will not talk about this publicly. They are wary of seeming to denigrate McCain’s service, marked by his legendary endurance in a Hanoi prison camp, when in fact they remain, to this day, in awe of it. And yet in private discussions with friends and colleagues, some of them have pointed out that McCain, who was shot down and captured in 1967, spent the worst and most costly years of the war sealed away, both from the rice paddies of Indochina and from the outside world. During those years, McCain did not share the disillusioning and morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel, who found themselves unable to recognize their enemy in the confusion of the jungle; he never underwent the conversion that caused Kerry, for one, to toss away some of his war decorations during a protest at the Capitol. Whatever anger McCain felt remained focused on his captors, not on his own superiors back in Washington….
Bai doesn’t stop there. By the article’s end, he suggests that McCain’s views may have much to do with”…..the lessons that he learned not in combat or in the Hanoi Hilton but in the pages of the books he read at the National War College in the 1970s.”
By the way, there are all the predictable right wing criticisms of the article. But, most of those ranting appear not to have actually taken the trouble to read the thing all the way through,
No one questioned the psychological ability of a Vietnam vet to lead the nation when John Kerry was running. Oh, that’s right, Kerry wasn’t there even three months, even though he received (not earned) three Purple Hearts to McCain’s one. And, if the left really cared about psychological imbalance, it would have done a study on sociopath Bill Clinton when he was running for President.
A psychological study of McCain and Vietnam reminds me of news articles for years after Vietnam. Crimes are committed by all segments of society, but the press made special note whenever something was done by a Vietnam vet–even though the military service had nothing to do with it. It still goes on thirty-five years later: 05/04/2008 – Berkeley police involved in armed stand-off with Vietnam vet.
Isn’t it more important to know what someone believes rather than guess why he believes it? If not, let’s discuss the influences of Islam and Rev. Wright on the life of Obama.
“The older I get, the more I believe that psychology is everything.”
Careful. Not to diminish the importance of what we call “psychology” but there were clearly reasons “we” not only screwed up the Iraq venture – and indeed even contemplated it in the first place – that have nothing to do with they psychology of the situation. As for the psychology of McCain’s Vietnam experience “informing” his view of Iraq, it’s been obvious since early on. I haven’t read the Bai piece yet, but it doesn’t take drilling down too deep to recognize that a big piece of McCain’s “clinging” to the Bush Iraq policy is his sense of frustration at “losing” Vietnam and what it meant to guys like him who had actually made sacrifices for that war. Given his family background as a full-blown member of the military upper elite, his clinging to the idea of “winning” the war as essential out of a sense of “honor” makes a certain amount of “psychological” sense. But there are lots of Vietnam vets who disagree with McCain on Iraq, so the psychology isn’t about Vietnam so much as McCain’s particular experience. Let’s not forget that McCain never actually experienced the Vietnam war on the ground. He was a bomber pilot and then a POW. McCain really knows nothing of the actual dynamics of the Vietnam war except through stuff he’s been told by others or that he’s read. Think about that. So it’s all about his experience as the son of elite miltary, trained in an elite academy, experiencing the war from his cockpit and then spending years confined under grueling conditions in a POW camp. Which is why when this guy goes on stupid outings like his Baghdad market venture, claiming he did it without a flak vest – when one is apparent in the footage – and that it was safe, when there were helicopters and dozens of armed escorts, he shows himself to be phonier than Michael Dukakis grinning out of a tank turret. Mcain isn’t the a guy who actually has any insight or visceral connection with the realities of combat. He knows no more about ground combat than Hillary Clinton knows about taking sniper fire. If you’re lookiing for Senators who understand war, go to guys like Hagel, Kerry or Jim Webb – all of whom led men in combat in Vietnam. McCain didn’t – and it shows in the contempt he demonstrates for the average grunt in voting against Jim Webb’s GI Bill. The man has demonstrated courage under adversity, but as a military “expert” with firsthand experience – or, frankly even empathy for combat soldiers, he’s a fraud. His GoTo Senate pals on the war are the Likudnik geek and consummate phony, Joe Lieberman and Lil’ Lindsey Graham, who served on the AirForce legal staff, not his fellow Vietnam veterans.
“Isn’t it more important to know what someone believes rather than guess why he believes it? ”
You’re absolutely right about this, Woody. Although, with people running for president, “left” and “right”, there’s also always the question of what they actually believe and what they’re saying to get elected. (Usually not too hard to figure out, given the obviousl political dynamics of both parties.)
McCain – on the basis of what he believes on the issues and what he’s saying to get elected – has demonstrated he isn’t fit to be President.
Also, you’re lying about Kerry’s service in Vietnam. He first served a tour in the Gulf of Tonkin on a frigate and then did four and a half months with a coastal squadron, until he qualified for transfer after 3 purple hearts. (How many do you have, Woody ? And how long were you under fire in Vietnam ? Just asking…)
reg, I wasn’t lying. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that Kerry was in the combat zone for three months. But, what’s a month here or there?
Kerry, incidentally, requested the transfer from a larger ship in the Tonkin Gulf to the “swift boats” which engaged in patrolling the coast of Vietnam. He says he didn’t know they would get involved in direct combat when he requested the transfer. He was wrong. The questioning of Kerry’s service and the elevation of McCain’s “Vietnam experience” as some sort sanctified ritual that qualifies him as commander-in-chief is bizarre.
I’ll put my “war esperience” up against John McCain’s any day, so far as understanding why and how it’s a justifiable decision. I refused service in Vietnam – and came with in a hair’s breadth of doing five years for it (long story) – because I knew all I needed to know from abundant journalistic information available – not to mention a reading of the history – to show me just how crazy and indefensible that war was. You had to be pretty willfully ignorant not to see that as early as 1965. I opposed the war in Iraq – althought I had no access to “secret intel” – because it was totally obvious from administration rhetoric that they were hyping up a phony “threat” for political purposes. I also disbelieved early on the “mission accomplished” hype and was certain we’d stepped into a much deeper hole than we were being told by cheerleaders like John McCain. So make me the fucking Commander in Chief, because I’ve got a better record on this shit than John McCain obviously will ever have if he lives another 70 years.
Too bad we didn’t know the Gulf of Tonkin wasn’t a “combat zone” when that alleged “attack” by the North Vietnamese was used to pass a resolution authorizing deeper involvement in their war.
Okay, sorry – I should have read the Bai clip before I wrote what actually sounded like parroting it.
reg: The questioning of Kerry’s service and the elevation of McCain’s “Vietnam experience†as some sort sanctified ritual that qualifies him as commander-in-chief is bizarre.
I’m not claiming any such thing. I merely pointed out that liberals now see McCain’s Vietnam experience as a negative for him serving as President while they did the opposite with Kerry–wanting it both ways. What was bizarre was Kerry’s goofy salute at the Democratic convention, when he was already known to bail out as fast as he could.
Now, a liberal is saying that the politicians got us into WWII for no good reason.
I guess no war is justified as long as you think that you can appease tyrants, even though history disproves that.
” liberals now see McCain’s Vietnam experience as a negative ”
I don’t see it as a negative, and I see his character under the terrible adversity of being a POW as a plus. One reason that I can’t dislike McCain the same way I feel revulsion at Bush and Cheney. But I don’t think his “war experience” is sobering to him in the same way that, say, Chuck Hagel’s was because McCain’s was about sticking it out at all costs in total isolation. Quite a different mindset from the realities of the war as it was actually fought.
“Now, a liberal is saying that the politicians got us into WWII for no good reason”
Would you like me to dredge up quotes from all of the conservatives who excoriated FDR for precisely that over the years ? And Nicholson Baker is a pacifist – which doesn’t equate with “liberal.” For the standard “liberal” version of WWII, watch Ken Burns’ “The War” or Studs Terkel’s “The Good War.” The truth is, of course, that the politics of post-WWI and the mishandling of things like the Versailles Treaty opened a door for a crazy guy like Hitler to exploit both the material and psychological aftermath and take power. To turn even epochal events like WWII into some mystical conflict between “good and evil” without any understanding of historical context, pre-conditions and deliberate decisions that led to a point in time like 1939 when there was no turning back from the brink is not helpful.
Reg, yes of course there were lots of reasons we got into Iraq. I don’t mean to suggest otherwise. But the neocons actually believed it would work because, among other reasons, they couldn’t get past their narcissistic projections.
“they couldn’t get past their narcissistic projections”
Didn’t work for Napolean or Hitler. Why should it work for Douglas Feith ?
Exactly. (Did you see him on the Daily Show, BTW? Fascinating.)
Celeste, you’re making an uninformed judgment regarding the reasons why neocons(?) supported the Iraq invasion. Nacissistic projections? Is that what your shrink friend told you or is that what is written in Mother Jones?
…or, on 60 Minutes?
Nope, it’s all from my own entirely high-handed analysis. Can’t blame anybody else. But admittedly that’s shorthand for a much longer discussion.
However, right now I have to give 26 students their final grades, so I’m outa here for a while.
Give ’em all A’s so as to not harm their self-esteem.
I have a feeling that Celeste is able to differentiate between her students’ self-esteem and their narcissistic projections.
Any update on Richard LoCicero? I miss him around here.
Check “Beautiful Horizons” – scroll down a bit. Randy finally heard from RLC – apparently he’s having some health problems but we’re looking forward to him bouncing back to help us make your life miserable – sublimely miserable, given your apparent masochism.
Actually Celeste, in honor of my new pacemaker – a gizmo I hare with Obama’s “Cousin” – Dick Cheney – I’ve mellowed out for a bit and in the spirit of Herblock giving Tricky Dick a free Shave on his inauguration I’ll wish Woody all the Best and even root for the Dawgs!
Welcome back, rlc. Missed you. Sorry about your heart problem, but at least we know that you have one. Now, let me know how the brain scans turned out.
This post is old, but I just found this take on the Times article and wanted to provide it in case someone actually comes back to read these comments.
Believe it.
One more: NYT Mag: As Isolated POW, McCain Didn’t Learn Correct Liberal Lessons in Vietnam