Meanwhile, I share my pal Marc (Cooper)’s sentiments about the president’s Afghanistan speech. But in addition to wishing, as Marc does, that Obama had spent some time chatting up Mikhail Gorbachev about his experience in Afghanistan, rather than talking for three months to whoever it was that advised him to select his present course….
….I also wish President Obama had run and re-run the Bill Moyers show from two weeks ago in which Moyers replays multiple snatches of White House tapes of LBJ agonizing over what to do about Vietnam.
Yes, we know that Afghanistan isn’t Viet Nam. But listen to the broadcast. It is so clear LBJ knew that his war—which, as is the case with Obama, was not one not of his own making, but one tossed in his lap by an earlier president—was likely headed for disaster and wanted to find some way out of the thing, but politically he never found it.
“They’ll forgive you for anything except being weak,” says a grim Johnson who knows increasingly that he is damned whichever way he turns.
It makes for amazing listening—and not in the happy sense of the word.
UPDATE:
WELL, I HOPE HE’S RIGHT
With morning light, as opposed to the dead-of-night state of dread with which I originally posted, I have drifted slightly in the direction of Andrew Sullivan’s take on the matter, who joins his colleague Jim Fallows in sighing simply, Well, I hope he’s right.
Have a look at Sullivan’s column. It is a sober assessment. One with which a part of me still hates to agree entirely. Yet I cannot help but see the logic.
Sullivan writes:
What Obama was saying last night is that he is determined to return America to normal, to unplug this vast attempt at global control in Muslim countries that Bush and Cheney unleashed. He is trying to unwind the empire, not expand it.
How best to unwind the empire? By giving McChrystal what he wants and giving him a couple of years to deliver tangible results. If McChrystal delivers, fantastic. I will do a ritual self-flagellation and bow down to the man with no body-fat and a close relationship with 33 Kagans of various generations and genders. If McChrystal does his best and we still get nowhere, Obama will have demonstrated – not argued, demonstrated – that withdrawal is the least worst option.
Here’s how Sullivan’s post ends.
As always with Obama, look a little deeper. He has made the very best of a very bad situation. And he is playing a long game for a win or a necessary withdrawal or both. I retain all my doubts; but I give him and Gates and McChrystal and Clinton and the troops all my support for the two years ahead. This much he and they deserve.
Well, I hope he’s right.
What is the Obama mission in Afghanistan?
We know what the mission used to be — to kill or capture Osama bin Laden and destroy his al-Qaeda command. Bush muffed that goal, but now the mission morphed into nation building effort to support the corrupt, illegitimate Karzai government.
Afghanistan has never had a strong central government. It has been governed for thousands of years by local and regional tribal coalitions, which Matthew Hoh coined as Valley-ism.
This war in Afghanistan, President Obama has pledged 100,000 men to fight and win has been a slow bleed against an array of mostly indigenous narco-jihadi-tribal guerrilla forces that we continue to call the “Taliban”
These ragtag bands are funded by opium profits and led by assorted religious extremists and druglords, many of whom have safe havens in Pakistan or within the neighborhood we are protecting.
Obama talked about Training?
But what do the trainers say –“You sit them in a room and try to teach them about police procedures — they start gabbing and knocking about. You talk to them about the rights of women, and they just laugh. The recruits are illiterate; they’ve had no experience at learning and they often can’t even count.”
Frustration?
We can’t even go after the leadership of the Taliban, even though they operate openly in the Pakistani city of Quetta, just across the border.
We also can’t go after the drug trade that funds the insurgency, because the proceeds are also skimmed by the friends, officials and family members of President Hamid Karzai.
The Afghan war is an unjust land grab, and a violent crusade by a blood thirsty President Obama. The interests of national security are not in mind. It is a cruel campaign, motivated by nothing more than power and greed and the desire to stay in power another four years.
We need to embrace the poor people Afghanistan, not drop bombs on their innocnt women and children.
I support all amnesty laws, and all laws that would make it easier for Afghans to become US citizens. As it stands, it’s actually harder for Afghans to become legal US citizens than it is for Europeans.
President Obama is acting like war mongers Bush and Cheney, and is adopting their war doctrines.
Why doesn’t the news media gaive us the number of innocent Afghanis killed by this war machine know as “General Atomics Aeronautical”. Unmaned drones are being used on a daily basis to drop bombs on innocent women, childern and fathers.
GAA is one of the few growing America companies, whose only purpose is cruelty from miles above.
http://www.ga-asi.com/
LBJ lost Vietnam, not because it was unwinnable, but because he didn’t set out to win a war, just to pacify a problem that was in the way of his domestic goals. Obama appears to have the same attitude, although he is at least willing to try counter-insurgency.
Ultimately, Johnson lost the war by destroying the political capital for it.
Nixon, for all his faults, set out to win the war in Vietnam, and did so fairly quickly (Abrams helped from just before the start of Nixon’s term).
Unfortunately, the damage had already been done at home. Congress then proceeded to throw away our victory by outlawing the very measures that won, and by preventing us from keeping our promises to the South Vietnamese.
The facile comparison of Russia in Afghanistan with the US in Afghanistan is, well, facile. The differences are vast – starting with our intent (and how it is perceived by Afghanis). The USSR set out to rule Afghanistan, and was willing to use any level of barbarity in order to do so.
The US, under McCrystal, is out to destroy the insurgency in Pakistan by protecting (and arming and training) the populace (as Abrams and Nixon did so successfully in Vietnam).
Most people are not interested in being in a state of perpetual war. If you can offer them peace, along with reduced oppression and increased economic opportunities, and you can protect them from the insurgents, they will stay on your side and resist the insurgents. This is a standard and well proven technique in counter-insurgency warfare – which is what the Afghanistan surge (and the Iraq surge before it, and Vietnamization before that) is all about.
Polls show that the Taliban is extremely unpopular in Afghanistan. It can only win by intimidation (and bribery). That’s why counter-insurgency, as described above, is appropriate and can be successful.
Democracies have trouble with counter-insurgency warfare because they become tired of it before it has a chance to work (especially the left), or in Vietnam, by failing to sustain it once it has succeeded.
I fear that will happen with Afghanistan. Only time will tell, but it is likely that the left (which always grows against any military cause the US is involved in), and some of the right (tired of spending money, or isolationist) will pull the rug out from under the whole thing.
That is what our enemies hope. The Islamists have long timelines. Too many Americans do not.
When Musharaff was interviewed recently by Fareed Zakaria on CNN, he kept emphasizing that the Taliban and other extremist forces only understand strength, that vacillating to talk about replacing it with diplomacy just seems like weakness to them. Zakaria noted that Musharaff had likely not been truthful about his own government’s complicity and actions, in not going after some of these forces as strongly as they might, for various reasons, but his awareness of history as a neighbor was very astute.
And it boiled down to the Russians having destabilized a fragile coalition under the King which kept the various factions together by fear and self-interest, and that the U S mission wouldn’t be complete – i.e, our pullout would make everything sacrificed so far a waste – if we don’t help put HUmpty Dumpty back together again in a way that FUNCTIONS, and will continue – even if it’s not some western version of coalition government or democracy in its pure form. But at least a triumph over the rule of evil strongmen and ignorance.
Also, it was clear to him and to historical and military observers, that the Indian-Pakistani-Chinese-Russian tensions and interests in the region must be factored into the big picture. It’s Not just about winning on the ground.
I’m pretty much in agreement with Sullivan, who gave I think one of the most rational assessments so far.
John Moore fails to mention that people are tired of the Afghanistan War and the Iraq war before it because the BushCo morons and neo-con cretins he has supported screwed things up for years waging war on the basis of totally fantastic assumptions and political sloganizing. That he fails to note the miserable failures of Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush as the inevitable backdrop – and the fact that General Petraeus didn’t even tell Bush that essential to any success of the “surge” was paying off terrorists – is telling. Nor is the surge a definable success. The endgame hasn’t happened and it’s clear that Iran will hold more sway over Iraq than the US in the long run. Moore is a totally delusional, crypto-fascist horse’s ass steeped in his feel-good revisionist history and crank political resentments. Know-nothingism at its worst.
If I was grading the final exams, I’d read the first 400 words and ignore everything after that. That would teach the students to eliminate verbiage and respect the time of readers. And, the 400 words is a concession from my usual 200.
But McChrystal has a “couple of years to deliver tangible results” with human lives at stake. How can that be the right decision?
If anyone wasn’t convonced Reg was out of his mind this last post of his should end all doubt. Moore presented a bit of a history lesson and accurate look at what has worked, was rejected and what is and should be our goals in Afgahnistan. His last line showed why we’ll probably end up running out and allowing the terrorists a base of operations.
Reg’s reply was his usual attack on the right laced with the vulgarities that his aparent O.C. disorder forces him to plug into his witless comments day in and day out.
I think the average thinking human would love to see a world without war..or homelessness…or corruption…or disease. That goes for left and right thinkers but Reg is only happy taking pot shots at every target his scope sets on because he’s a miseerable human being.
There’s no cure for that.
Off topic, cops need to kill more assholes before another gutless nut has the channce to do what the now dead low-life did in Washington. 40% rise in murdered cops this year is very telling. That this hasn’t been mentioned on this cop hater site is no surprise.
My kid was in a suicide by cop situation not long ago and told me the guy had about six feet left before he dumped him (the guy dropped the large knife he had because my boy convinced him he would not hesitate to kill him). He told me today he was still comfortable with that decision but he’s not eating in public places anymore, in his unit someplace safe or at the station.
I would think this would be a social justice type issue, that cops have to fear (even more now) even eating in public.
WTF,
What did Mexicans do to the United States prior to the Mexican-American war that would remotely compare to the 9/11 attacks? Your sarcastic analogy is absurd, and more of a personal attack, considering you’re mocking a previous comment of mine practically verbatim. Which means, again, you don’t have an answer. No matter what goofy little name you post under (I post under 2, StillNoScript and RobThomas, in case anyone’s concerned…and, for the record, I do NOT have a blog, in case you run across one authored by SNS or RT), your trait sticks out like a sore thumb. You’re simply too stupid to form arguments. That’s how I always know it’s you. Do you honestly think you’re making yourself look smart, or perhaps discouraging people you disagree with from leaving comments, by doing this? How long have you been at this now with me, 3 years? Get a fucking clue, man. I’m not going anywhere. And I’m going to take your stupid bullshit head on every time. It’s like taking candy from a baby, considering you’re yet to put up any kind of argument outside of personal attacks. You read my response. Name anything Mexico did to the United States prior to the Mexican American War even remotely similar to 9/11, to back up your idiotic point that the war in Afghanistan is akin to the Mexican American war. Let’s see you use that peanut sized brain, just once. I’ll bet you can’t.
John Moore, what was the purpose for being in Vietnam to begin with? What threat did North Vietnam, or the Viet Cong, pose to the national security of the United States? Did we get involved because North Vietnam is communist? Is that why the United States fight wars? Over economic policies? We fight wars to protect our businesses in America? In essence, we fight wars for money? I thought the United States was only supposed to fight wars with national security in mind, and nothing more? My stepfather fought in Vietnam, btw, in the infantry, on the front lines. He feels the same. So do most people I’ve talked to who fought in this war. It seems that most people I’ve met in real life who support the Vietnam war are conservatives who’ve never been in a war. Why is that?
“cop hater site”
Go fuck yourself, asshole. You’re doing cops no favors with your dick attitude here.
Sure Fire Says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Off topic, cops need to kill more assholes before another gutless nut has the channce to do what the now dead low-life did in Washington.
…………
So your solution is that the police become criminals? Then we would be a lawless nation. Thank God most police officers are law abiding public servants, and avoid fringe right wingers like you and your dangerous, anger driven, reactionary advice.
And of course, the police in that town were only making matters worse after the tragedy, by targeting the family members and detaining them, which is illegal. All they can do is question them. They can’t detain them. They didn’t commit a crime. Only a judge can authorize a warrant to detain a family member based on the suspicion that they are harboring the suspect. It was payback. They knew the family had nothing to do with it. They were just fucking with them, as payback. Another case of police letting their emotions get the best of them and responding to a tragedy in a way that makes all police officers across the nation look bad.
Thanks for making my point you gutless bitch. Internet pussies are a dime a dozen and you’re the king.
RobThomas, I’m not going to waste my time educating you about Vietnam when you are so confused that you think a war 150 years ago is relevant to today’s policies.
FYI, I volunteered for and went to Vietnam, so you can stick your ad hominem comment about conservatives and war in that very large space you have where the sun doesn’t shine.
Cue… the next reg outburst
Translation: John himself isn’t educated enough on the Vietnam war to put up an argument against mine. But he loves to talk about it as if he is.
In case you find the intellectual courage to step up and make your argument, John, I’ll leave the question in the balance for you, and repeat it:
Aside from a difference in economic policy, what was the reason for the Vietnam War? Was North Vietnam and/or the Viet Cong a threat to the security of the United States? If so, how?
And, the Mexican-American War isn’t relevant to today’s policy? Numb nuts, your political position on Mexican immigration is the same of those who manufactured that war.
You are easy, dude. At least act like you’re smart.
Sure Fire, do you still think the police should start executing people who they think might kill cops in the future? In other words, do you still think the police should become criminals themselves, which would result in a lawless country? What kind of law man harbors an ideology of lawlessness? You’re no cop, nor do you even understand what a real cop is. You’re a fucking goon who likes violence. Nothing more.
Rob Thomas,
Are the fathers, women and children being killed in Afghanistan today responsible for the 9/11 attack?
Of course not, the Al-Qaeda troops in Afghanistan and their training camps and have been bombed to obilvion.
But of course the Obama apologists and other fools, try and defend the murder of the innocent Afghans.
Why is the life an an Afghan person not valued by the Americans, the USA is now creating a new group of terrorists who are willing to give their lives to destoy the imperialists of the U.S. If a 14 year old boy in Afghanistan loses his father because of the invasion and murder by the Americans, who can blame him if he joins in a holy war against the people who murdered his father.
I am ashamed of our president and congress who are continuing the cruel death and suffering of those who have done nothing to us.
Does Obama deserve a Nobel Peace prize for the death and destruction in Afghanistan?
Rob, I’m not going to discuss your insane stuff on immigration.
Re: Vietnam – the same inability at basic logic that leads you to your 150 year old war being relevant apparently leads you to make unwarranted assumptions about my education on Vietnam.
So here’s your answer, which you won’t believe anyway:
North Vietnam was a Soviet proxy state. Ho Chi Minh, a founding member of the French Communist Party and who spent 20 years at Comintern in the USSR, was operating as an extension of Soviet policy. This is demonstrated by his siding with the French to destroy the nationalist forces, before turning on the French for his communist revolution.
If you are aware of the Kennan doctrine, then you know why we fought in Vietnam. Since you imagine it is economic systems, it would appear that you need to learn a bit of cold war history, starting with Harry Truman’s administration.
We fought in Vietnam for the same reason we fought In Korea. We won in Korea, so South Korea is now a free, prosperous state. The liberals in the US snatched defeat form the jaws of victory, so a few million SE asians died as a result and Vietnam is an economic backwater still ruled by a dictatorship.
Thjs was obvious to me when I was 18, and joined the service. You need to stop worrying about 150 year old wars if you are going to lecture me abut 40 year old ones, and learn your history.
There IS a REAL Rob Thomas doing good things, making good music. It’s a shame this moron is tainting his good name.
John Moore – don’t cite Kennan to rationalize the illegal and strategically absurd war in Vietnam. You show your ignorance. You flunked the history test here in just four paragraphs. Among other things you fail to mention the Geneva Accords, which should at least make it into the second paragraph of any short precis on the origins of the Vietnam War. You haven’t learned shit since you were 18 and, obvioiusly, utterly ignorant.
Surefire – you continue to defecate here. Nice job.
I have to say that “If you are aware of the Kennan Doctrine then you know why we fought in Vietnam” is one of the stupidest statements I’ve ever read – even from some revisionist dimwit who still believes Vietnam was a war that made strategic, moral or military sense.
I thought the topic was the war in Afghanistan, not the Vietnam war or Mexican-American war.
Interesting how Reg or Rob can’t bring himself to criticize Obama, even though Reg cites article written by Andrew Sullivan. Here are some of Sullivan’s words.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/11/petraeus-the-general-who-failed-upwards.html
*************************
“But I fear Bush’s wars will destroy Obama as they destroyed Bush. Because they are unwinnable; and because the US is bankrupt; and because neither Iraq nor Afghanistan will ever be normal functioning societies in our lifetimes.
You want empire? Then say so and get on with it – with far more forces, and massive cuts in domestic spending to rebuild thankless Muslim population centers thousands of miles from home for decades into the future.
You do not want empire? Then leave.
Those are the presidential level choices.
And neither Bush nor, it seems, Obama has the strength to make them.”
I posted the same Sullivan article that Celeste did elsewhere and the day before, Marty. And the article you cite is prior to the one noted above. You’re citing Sullivan contra Sullivan, which suggests you can’t accept commentators who are comfortable with a certain level of complexity and contradiction. IMHO, that’s the way the world works. Sullivan took another, longer look at the context of Obama’s decision-making and came to a more complicated conclusion. No, I’m not going to pile on Obama at this point. This decision doesn’t surprise me at all. If that’s “interesting”, fine. It’s not particularly “interesting” to me. What’s interesting to me is that – while I totally understand disagreements with this decision – I don’t understand anyone would not have expected Obama to double-down in Afghanistan before he gave up on it. It’s totally consistent.
I will also add here, for the sake of clarity, that the shift in strategy represented by the “surge” in Iraq turned out to be a positive thing, although I opposed it as I understood it at the time, i.e. simply increasing the US footprint. (Of course, if you read Tom Ricks, it’s clear that Bush didn’t understand what’s called “the surge” at the time either, since Petreaus didn’t inform him of the “negotiating with and paying off terrorists” part which yielded the biggest results.) So I’m not wedded to everything I’ve ever asserted about these wars (although my gut instincts, including the notion very early on, verified by Petraeus strategy, that the Sunni warlords would become al Qaeda’s worst and most effective enemy, turned out to be better than the war’s proponents.)
I’m going to give Obama my support on this policy over the time-frame he’s laid out and then – as he fully accepts in taking this responsibilty – judge his decision-making and follow-through when I can actually evaluate it on the terms he’s laid out. I did the same with Bush after 9/11 and was burned horribly by the Iraq bait-and-switch. I saw that one coming when I heard his crackpot “Axis of Evil” speech. But Obama is not Bush and hasn’t crossed any lines beyond compromises and/or commitments that I fully anticipated and was aware of. The President isn’t my boyfriend and I don’t throw tantrums when he doesn’t mirror my desires. My biggest criticisms of Obama aren’t in foreign policy or this particular decision – which I think is problematic but rational. They’re of his not leavening his core economic team with a key advisor or two who aren’t total insiders. Other than that, I think he’s been doing a remarkable job of playing the hand he’s been dealt.
http://stillnoscriptsworld.blogspot.com/
This explains alot Rob
Another good Sullivan column, with a link to one of those occasionally worthwhile pieces by Joe Kleiin:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/12/wont-the-taliban-just-wait-us-out.html
John Moore Says:
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Rob, I’m not going to discuss your insane stuff on immigration.
……..
Because you don’t have an answer.
……………….
North Vietnam was a Soviet proxy state.
………….
A what? What in the fuck is that? Are you making this up?
…………………………..
Ho Chi Minh, a founding member of the French Communist Party and who spent 20 years at Comintern in the USSR, was operating as an extension of Soviet policy. This is demonstrated by his siding with the French to destroy the nationalist forces, before turning on the French for his communist revolution.
………….
None of this explains why North Vietnam or the Viet Cong were a threat to our national security.
………………
If you are aware of the Kennan doctrine, then you know why we fought in Vietnam.
………….
I’m aware of it. Still doesn’t explain how Vietnam was a threat to our national security.
You’re giving me reasons as to why we “fought” in Vietnam, when that isn’t what I asked you.
I asked you how North Vietnam or the Viet Cong were a threat to the national security of the United States. You still haven’t answered.
……….
Since you imagine it is economic systems, it would appear that you need to learn a bit of cold war history, starting with Harry Truman’s administration.
………………
The Cold War does not explain Vietnam’s threat to the national security of the United States.
………………..
We fought in Vietnam for the same reason we fought In Korea.
………………
Against communism…an economic policy. Correct. I know that. But where you seem to be confused is where I’m asking you what threat North Vietnam or the Viet Cong was to our national security.
………………
We won in Korea,
……………
America, Fuck yeh! Still doesn’t explain how Vietnam and the Viet Cong were a threat to U.S. national security.
…………
so South Korea is now a free, prosperous state.
……………
They even have their own version of Dancing With the Stars, the true fruits of Democracy. Still doesn’t explain how North Vietnam and the Viet Cong were a threat to U.S. national security.
……………..
The liberals in the US snatched defeat form the jaws of victory,
………….
Good. Because it’s a way we shouldn’t have been in to begin with. Because North Vietnam and the Viet Cong were not threat to our national security, and you know it.
………………
so a few million SE asians died as a result
…………….
They would have died anyway, or perhaps not, depending on their ability to fight for their own country. If we stayed, thousands more American soldiers would have died, for a war they shouldn’t have been in to begin with.
………………
and Vietnam is an economic backwater still ruled by a dictatorship.
…………….
What business is that of the United States?
………………..
Thjs was obvious to me when I was 18, and joined the service.
…………..
You should have done drugs instead. You’re lucky to be alive, idiot.
………………..
You need to stop worrying about 150 year old wars if you are going to lecture me abut 40 year old ones, and learn your history.
…………….
And you need to stop lying about North Vietnam’s threat to our national security, and while you’re at it, stop talking about Mexican immigration altogether, since it’s blatantly obvious you don’t have a clue about the Mexican American War and how it affects not only society today, but your personal politics as well.
Rob when did you start caring about american soldiers? You said yourself you could care less about 9-11 that it didn’t affect you at all because you didn’t know anyone there so why do you care about soldiers you don’t know and care about 150 year old war that had people in it you don’t know?
Dumb fucks like Rob and Reggie can spin what I said all they want but knowing two cops who died because they didn’t pull the trigger when they should have makes me real aware of the fact more assholes need to be killed prior to what this bitch did. He said he was going to do it and did, said he was going to kill others as well but nobody fucking cared. Never said every asshole cops run into need to be capped but more, oh yeah. You mother fucking bitches spin it any way you want.
I’m the type of goon you would want to show up when either of you pussies needed help and you know it. Bitch like the assholes you are about me, but that’s the fact. You want cops to do all the dirty work and than attempt to act like you fucking know better after they do it, but neither of you know a fucking thing about police work.
Here’s the type of guy you are Rob, you probably hosted a party after the cops were ambushed because you’ve posted enough of your hate for them to make me real aware that would be your response you gutless bitch.
That this board allows your fucking gutless rants is enough to qualify it as a cop hate site in my book and Reg attacking me and not mentioning the slain officers shows what a bitch he is.
Maybe if the now dead fuck head would have followed through with these other threats it might have warranted a thread here. Like I’ve said, supporters and relatives of criminal and gang scum are no better than the animals themselves, what other proof you people need?
——————–
Maurice Clemmons threatened to kill more than just cops in the days before he massacred four Lakewood police officers at a coffee shop in Parkland.
Schoolchildren and others also were on his list of targets, according to court records filed Wednesday.
A witness told Pierce County sheriff’s detectives that Clemmons told friends and family gathered for Thanksgiving dinner at his aunt’s home in Pacific that he planned to kill “cops, children at a school†and “as many people as he could in an intersection,†according to an affidavit filed by prosecutors.
Clemmons had bailed out of jail the day before.
————-
“You mother fucking bitches spin it any way you want.”
Dude you’re unhinged. And your expletives are sloppy and uncreative.
“a totally delusional, crypto-fascist horse’s ass steeped in his feel-good revisionist history and crank political resentments.”
Now THAT’s how you do it. Makes me want to re-watch Deadwood.
That Clemmons! What weak pussy-ass liberal was responsible for him getting out of jail and killing cops?
Oh.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/35260_Is_Huckabee_a_Sucker_for_Jailhouse_Conversions
Well, it was for Jesus, so, uh… Can’t win ’em all, I guess. Mistakes were made. Etc.
Wait: it was Jesus’ fault! Jesus H. Cop-Killer. Made Clemmons’ soul free, for the price of a few cops. But all of them are surely in heaven now! Of course–the Lord’s Plan. Now it makes sense.
Sure Fire, how did I spin what you said? You suggested that police should murder people who they think might kill cops in the future. Is that not what you said? Maybe you were joking, that’s fine. But you haven’t indicated such yet. Because if you weren’t joking, then you’re as much of a criminal apologist as anyone. We need law, and we need law enforcement. We don’t need douchebags who support criminal behavior like you.
The scroll wheel on my mouse is fantasic, I can quickly scroll past the boring and repetitive comments of Rob Thomas.
I writing a thank you letter to Logitech, for selling the LX-7 wheel mouse hoody-hoo !!!!!!!!
Learn to fucking read Robbie, I already explained myself.
“I’m the type of goon you would want to show up when either of you pussies needed help and you know it. ”
The last time some cops showed up to help they weren’t goons, but they did manage to keep me from getting into trouble by showing up in time to stop me from running a punk over with my car who had just held a gun to my head and snatched my wallet.
Go fuck yourself, you whining freak. You’re a sick piece of shit. If you want sympathy – which you obviously desperately crave – don’t start out with crap like calling Celeste’s blog a “cop hating site.” You’re the bitch here, asshole.
Also, you’ve got nuthin’ Surefire except Drunk At the End of the Bar bullshit. Your comment is meaningless – any fat-assed old fart watching Bill O’Reilly could say the same shit. It doesn’t address anything except your fits of anger. So NO! – you’re not the guy I “want to show up” to do police work. I don’t hate cops, but I do hate raving, angry assholes. If I need a cop, the last thing I want is a poor excuse who better fits the second category and doesn’t understand the difference. Some cops are great and lots are okay – but some such as yourself need to go on a taxpayer-funded disability, screw their heads back on and then look for work in the private sector. I’m sure you’d make a great bouncer at a bar – with a few drinks in ’em the patrons would be duly impressed.
Back to something that matters more than one sleazy jerk trying to turn this into a hate-thread, here’s an Andrew Sullivan post that made my morning – a comment from one of his readers in Afghanistan, a soldier who saw through the Iraq scam and was dispirited by the “muddle through” strategy advocated by Bush, McCain et. al. in Afghanistan, but who sees the prospect for some serious progress with the new focus by Obama and his generals operating with greater troop strength:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/12/email-from-kandahar-were-going-to-win-this-one.html
At this point I disagree with Sullivan on withdrawal. If this effort fails and Karzai, expecting a blank check, does nothing to gain credence with his people, we need to reassess. But I’m willing to give McChrystal 2 years with the forces he needs to change the dynamics. I don’t support an endless occupation.
Here’s a reaction to Obama’s speech that should make Woody feel less alone…
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/dec/04/mayor-fires-at-obama-online/
What you know about the law could fit on the head of a pin Robbie. For you to question what officers did is fucking hilarious. What the fuck does this head up ass statement even mean “Only a judge can authorize a warrant to detain a family member based on the suspicion that they are harboring the suspect. It was payback.”
Where did you find that nonsense? No warrant is needed to detain someone dummy. You’re just making shit up you cop hating fuck, you know squat about the law. Maybe you can fly to Oakland and have a parade for the now dead asshole like they did with their own cop killer.
Sympathy Reg? You’re a joke dude, costantly a fucking joke. You wanted to run a guy over for stealing your wallet? Wow Reg, you’re quite the man, guess you’re a big death penalty supporter. Long as you have a target that’s standing still right? I guess cuffed as well so you can run his ass over with your ride. LOL, that’s quite a manly response. Most guys would just want a few minutes alone to kick his ass, not you though, murder by auto, how nice.
Only cops that you feel are ok Reg are those that fit your simple minded idea of what a cop should be. I guess that means a cop that would stop you before you murdered someone who made you another in a long list of crime victims, but not one who thinks we should be a lot more severe with the scum we have roaming our streets like that same guy that made you his bitch huh?
Tell you what dumb ass, bet that cop who helped you feels exactly the way I do but has to put on that face he detests to make you believe different when on the street.
You and Rob get that parade going.
By the way Robbie, ever want a lesson in the law you just ask me ok? Where your soul mate Reg thinks I’m the bouncer type ( I’m a Yoga guy dude) I also have an extensive understanding of the law. That includes what cops can and can’t do in the course of an investigation or arrest including what constitutes a legal detainment and when the proper time is to Mirandize a suspect, if you need to do it at all. Well, at least as far as this state goes I have those type smarts, but I’d guess Washington runs pretty much the same as we do and are held to the same standards of ethical and legal conduct officers here are.
I just don’t talk like some half drunk elitist fuck trying to prove to everyone how much better I am than anyone else on the planet. Maybe that’s why I need the “sympathy” huh Reggie? I don’t speak and post like you so I must be inferior right?
I’ll struggle on though and strive to learn me some better way to talk professor.
Hey Reg went to your link about that mayor, pretty funny stuff. You on Facebook Reg? We couldn’t be friends with your willingness to murder people for simply robbing you. I’d be a little bit uncomfortable with that, you’re just a bit too violent for me.
So the bottom line is without the help of a cop, you’d be in the joint huh? I would never have thunk that? Back to wrapping presents and listening to Christmas carols.
Surefire – you’re raving again. I’ll take your imagined scenario of my trying to injure guy who was standing still and handcuffed as projection on your part.
Facebook ? Yeah – cuz I’m 12 years old and the internet is my life. You’re a fucking joke. Go be internet friends with another adolescent, attention-seeking asshole like the former governor of Alaska.
“bet that cop who helped you feels exactly the way I do”
Is your main mission here to bring disgrace to the reputation of law enforcement officers ? Great job, Big Man !
Bit of a weak response Reg, I expected better but seeing that I’m talking to an almost murderer I’m not surprised.
Go fuck yourself, you whining asshole.
That’s all you have Reg..”Go fuck yourself”? You’re a pretty limited guy. I thought you were some type of posting legend, haven’t people laughed at my attempts to screw with you? This is what everyone’s impressed with, “Go fuck yourself”?
What a donk.
350 million on Facebook you elitist fucking bitch (I’m in Reg mode now), think that all of those people are 12. You are one miserable fucking jerk.
I hate elitist fucks and your every word that you post here says that. What a bitch.
Reg, and Sure Fire. This does not qualify as dialogue. Both of you. Good gravy.
I’ve not been paying attention (because, like the post said, I’ve been buried in work until today), and fortunately this is an old thread.
But if one of you has some sort of emotional episode that leads you to have the bad sense to take a dive into the mud, I would REALLY, REALLY appreciate it if the other would be the grown up and not leap in and go for the full-on mutts-in-the-mud action.
Jeeze-us!
Okay, I read a little further up the thread.
For the record, I’m on Facebook, reg, and I find it enormously useful in a multiplicity of ways. This isn’t to say that you need to like it. There is much idiocy and time wasting to be found there too.
But around 60 plus percent of the best So Cal writers and writing teachers I know are on Facebook, as are a lot of my east coast writer/novelist/poet pals. It provides us with a sort of digital town square so that we might keep up with each other in a day to day manner, in a way that we otherwise could not.
(MySpace, on the other hand is just plain irritating.)
celeste, why are the comments off on the “Ginger” thread? Just wondering and where I didn’t go to all your links there was also a “Kick a Jew” incident from what I’ve heard. I’m not sure where.
Thanks, Sure Fire. They’re on now.
Ever since the site’s software was updated, I find that on about one out of every 25 posts, the comments are off and I have to turn them on manually. Can’t figure out what causes it. But I always appreciate when someone flags it because usually I don’t notice.