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	<title>Comments on: Feds launch Dispensary Raids Just After LA City Council Passes Preliminary Med Pot Vote &#8211; UPDATED</title>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-6034</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>i love cannabis i smoke it so what it is my body my mind my right i am not hurting anyone i am not infringing on someone else&#039;s right to live free why can&#039;t people just get back to living there life and if they want to smoke up thats there right not the feds they are not in control of my body i am so i say fuck the dea and the drug war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i love cannabis i smoke it so what it is my body my mind my right i am not hurting anyone i am not infringing on someone else&#8217;s right to live free why can&#8217;t people just get back to living there life and if they want to smoke up thats there right not the feds they are not in control of my body i am so i say fuck the dea and the drug war.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2942</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So that I get the last word, here it is:  WORD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So that I get the last word, here it is:  WORD</p>
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		<title>By: Celeste Fremon</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2903</link>
		<dc:creator>Celeste Fremon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 04:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/#comment-2903</guid>
		<description>Really excellent debate Joe, Woody and Listener.  I&#039;ve enjoyed reading it.  Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really excellent debate Joe, Woody and Listener.  I&#8217;ve enjoyed reading it.  Well done.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2902</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 03:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/#comment-2902</guid>
		<description>Joe, I hate to say it, but I&#039;ve just gotten too worn out on federal interference into state matters to raise any resistance to it.  I just gripe.  

I&#039;ve always been for a limited central government to allow people at a local level to determine what is in their best interests.  Unfortunately, Washington, D.C. has an insatiable appetite for power and control.  Plus, politicians are afraid to lose votes by telling the populace that it&#039;s not the job of the government to take care of them from cradle to grave--so, they continue to take more control of lives.

On the matter of marijuana laws specifically, I really would have to read the legal arguments presented from both sides.  However, I generally find myself in agreement with Justice Scalia, who tends to favor following the original intent of laws rather than bend them.  I do not accept the concept of a &quot;living constitution.&quot;  

From a personal and moral approach, I do not favor legalization of drugs, and I recognize that liquor prohibition resulted in many positives with families and personal lives.  I don&#039;t smoke, drink, or use drugs.  I&#039;ve seen what it has done to others, and I have no interest in being tempted to ruin my life.

Democrats and Libertarians come together in favor of liberalizing drug laws.  As a conservative, I would oppose drug use.  However, I would not use the power of an armed federal goverment to do that.  Leave more decisions up to the states, but also make the states responsible for consequences. 

The commerce clause has been extended to ridiculous extremes, without my going into detail.  This nation is a union of states, but the federal government no longer feels that it should answer to the states.  (The state legislatures used to elect Senators.)  At least we still have the Electoral College to represent the states, even though that gets attacked by whoever loses. 

I enjoyed the discussion and must say that it&#039;s one of the few in which someone didn&#039;t tell me to have intercourse with myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, I hate to say it, but I&#8217;ve just gotten too worn out on federal interference into state matters to raise any resistance to it.  I just gripe.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always been for a limited central government to allow people at a local level to determine what is in their best interests.  Unfortunately, Washington, D.C. has an insatiable appetite for power and control.  Plus, politicians are afraid to lose votes by telling the populace that it&#8217;s not the job of the government to take care of them from cradle to grave&#8211;so, they continue to take more control of lives.</p>
<p>On the matter of marijuana laws specifically, I really would have to read the legal arguments presented from both sides.  However, I generally find myself in agreement with Justice Scalia, who tends to favor following the original intent of laws rather than bend them.  I do not accept the concept of a &#8220;living constitution.&#8221;  </p>
<p>From a personal and moral approach, I do not favor legalization of drugs, and I recognize that liquor prohibition resulted in many positives with families and personal lives.  I don&#8217;t smoke, drink, or use drugs.  I&#8217;ve seen what it has done to others, and I have no interest in being tempted to ruin my life.</p>
<p>Democrats and Libertarians come together in favor of liberalizing drug laws.  As a conservative, I would oppose drug use.  However, I would not use the power of an armed federal goverment to do that.  Leave more decisions up to the states, but also make the states responsible for consequences. </p>
<p>The commerce clause has been extended to ridiculous extremes, without my going into detail.  This nation is a union of states, but the federal government no longer feels that it should answer to the states.  (The state legislatures used to elect Senators.)  At least we still have the Electoral College to represent the states, even though that gets attacked by whoever loses. </p>
<p>I enjoyed the discussion and must say that it&#8217;s one of the few in which someone didn&#8217;t tell me to have intercourse with myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2899</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 02:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/#comment-2899</guid>
		<description>That was my last post on this thread.  Thank you a vigorous and civil debate Woody.  I hope we can do it again.  Also, hope you stocked up on enough liquor to get you through the rest of Sunday.  Is that Minnesota, Utah or Texas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was my last post on this thread.  Thank you a vigorous and civil debate Woody.  I hope we can do it again.  Also, hope you stocked up on enough liquor to get you through the rest of Sunday.  Is that Minnesota, Utah or Texas?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2898</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 02:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/#comment-2898</guid>
		<description>If the case against Vick is federal, I don&#039;t support it.  I never said the federal government shouldn&#039;t or couldn&#039;t place limits on civil liberties.  They can place limits on them if those limits are expressly allowed by the constitution.  During prohibition the federal government had a constitutional basis for regulation of alcohol, the 18th amendment, which, as we all know, was subsequently repealed.  I do not support additional federal regulation of alcohol unless, interstate commerce is specifically involved.  

I&#039;ve already acknowledged that the Supreme court has ruled in favor of the DEA&#039;s right to raid dispensaries.  I happen disagree with their interpretation of the law.  I also noted that the most conservative justice, Scalia, dissented in the relevant case, because he felt the federal government was overreaching and that to rule in their favor amounts to what you have termed &quot;judicial activism&quot; in the face of a power clearly designated to the states.  What I&#039;m interested in is YOUR opinion.  You have previously stated your distaste for judicial activism on these pages.

Do YOU think that in this case the court is in the case engaging in &quot;judicial activism&quot;?  If yes, do you support judicial activism in this case.

Do YOU generally support a broad interpretation of the &quot;commerce clause&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the case against Vick is federal, I don&#8217;t support it.  I never said the federal government shouldn&#8217;t or couldn&#8217;t place limits on civil liberties.  They can place limits on them if those limits are expressly allowed by the constitution.  During prohibition the federal government had a constitutional basis for regulation of alcohol, the 18th amendment, which, as we all know, was subsequently repealed.  I do not support additional federal regulation of alcohol unless, interstate commerce is specifically involved.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve already acknowledged that the Supreme court has ruled in favor of the DEA&#8217;s right to raid dispensaries.  I happen disagree with their interpretation of the law.  I also noted that the most conservative justice, Scalia, dissented in the relevant case, because he felt the federal government was overreaching and that to rule in their favor amounts to what you have termed &#8220;judicial activism&#8221; in the face of a power clearly designated to the states.  What I&#8217;m interested in is YOUR opinion.  You have previously stated your distaste for judicial activism on these pages.</p>
<p>Do YOU think that in this case the court is in the case engaging in &#8220;judicial activism&#8221;?  If yes, do you support judicial activism in this case.</p>
<p>Do YOU generally support a broad interpretation of the &#8220;commerce clause&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: listener_on_the_sidelines</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2897</link>
		<dc:creator>listener_on_the_sidelines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/#comment-2897</guid>
		<description>Woody, no reputable empirical work ever claims to prove anything.  A preponderance of evidence does, however, serve to confirm, or disconfirm a theory.  That preponderance of evidence has nothing to do with consensus building.  You may get consensus on a social issue - you will find agreement or disagreement on the results of an empirical study.  When there is a preponderance of evidence, you can look like a darned fool arguing against it without amassing evidence to the contrary.  No one is arguing the correlation between cannabis use and incidence of psychosis.  The preponderance of evidence is there.  What is &lt;strong&gt;NOT&lt;/strong&gt; there is the direction of the causal chain.  So, to state that smoking marijuana causes psychosis is way outside the evidence.  Statements like, &lt;em&gt;My first hand observations, however, have been that people who use heavy drugs first tried marijuana. Once one high becomes commonplace, there is a tendency to move to the next step up.&lt;/em&gt; are anecdotal at best, and irrelevant to the study cited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woody, no reputable empirical work ever claims to prove anything.  A preponderance of evidence does, however, serve to confirm, or disconfirm a theory.  That preponderance of evidence has nothing to do with consensus building.  You may get consensus on a social issue &#8211; you will find agreement or disagreement on the results of an empirical study.  When there is a preponderance of evidence, you can look like a darned fool arguing against it without amassing evidence to the contrary.  No one is arguing the correlation between cannabis use and incidence of psychosis.  The preponderance of evidence is there.  What is <strong>NOT</strong> there is the direction of the causal chain.  So, to state that smoking marijuana causes psychosis is way outside the evidence.  Statements like, <em>My first hand observations, however, have been that people who use heavy drugs first tried marijuana. Once one high becomes commonplace, there is a tendency to move to the next step up.</em> are anecdotal at best, and irrelevant to the study cited.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2896</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/#comment-2896</guid>
		<description>Joe, the Constitution is occasionally amended and often radically interpreted, but it is still the same Constitution.  

You say that it wasn&#039;t enforced earlier, but it was enforced.  It&#039;s just that others later decided to give it a new interpretation.  Separate but equal was constitutional until that was changed by the courts in the 1950&#039;s.  

The example of treason is one in which the feds do limit &quot;rights,&quot; which is what I said that they do.  It doesn&#039;t matter how it is done.

The feds involve themselves over alcohol through prohibition, ending prohibition, taxing alcohol, busting up stills, requiring that the product be kept to certain standards of sanitation and meet labeling requirement, etc.  If the ACLU wasn&#039;t so busy getting the Ten Commandments tossed out of public buildings, they would probably be working to get beer sold on Sundays. 

Note that it is the feds who have taken Michael Vick to the Grand Jury for dog fighting after the local and state gave it a pass.  

The feds do involve themselves in everyday life.  They don&#039;t allow the states to keep any powers that they want--which is just about everything.  

I don&#039;t have to lay out the constitutional basis for federal involvement in marijuana.  They do it and no one, not even the ACLU, has come up with a supportable case to stop them.  It seems that the burden is on you or marijuana supporters to explain why it is unconsitutional and to stop the feds.  However, that issue has been addressed by courts and the feds are still allowed to do it and are doing it.

Believe me, it wasn&#039;t people like me who encouraged the federal government to take over state duties and to extend its role as a nanny state.  I don&#039;t like it, but that&#039;s the way it is for me, who thinks that one should be able to read and write to vote, and for you, who thinks that marijuana should be legal.

However, I accept it rather than encourage lawless resistance.  You could always move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, the Constitution is occasionally amended and often radically interpreted, but it is still the same Constitution.  </p>
<p>You say that it wasn&#8217;t enforced earlier, but it was enforced.  It&#8217;s just that others later decided to give it a new interpretation.  Separate but equal was constitutional until that was changed by the courts in the 1950&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>The example of treason is one in which the feds do limit &#8220;rights,&#8221; which is what I said that they do.  It doesn&#8217;t matter how it is done.</p>
<p>The feds involve themselves over alcohol through prohibition, ending prohibition, taxing alcohol, busting up stills, requiring that the product be kept to certain standards of sanitation and meet labeling requirement, etc.  If the ACLU wasn&#8217;t so busy getting the Ten Commandments tossed out of public buildings, they would probably be working to get beer sold on Sundays. </p>
<p>Note that it is the feds who have taken Michael Vick to the Grand Jury for dog fighting after the local and state gave it a pass.  </p>
<p>The feds do involve themselves in everyday life.  They don&#8217;t allow the states to keep any powers that they want&#8211;which is just about everything.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have to lay out the constitutional basis for federal involvement in marijuana.  They do it and no one, not even the ACLU, has come up with a supportable case to stop them.  It seems that the burden is on you or marijuana supporters to explain why it is unconsitutional and to stop the feds.  However, that issue has been addressed by courts and the feds are still allowed to do it and are doing it.</p>
<p>Believe me, it wasn&#8217;t people like me who encouraged the federal government to take over state duties and to extend its role as a nanny state.  I don&#8217;t like it, but that&#8217;s the way it is for me, who thinks that one should be able to read and write to vote, and for you, who thinks that marijuana should be legal.</p>
<p>However, I accept it rather than encourage lawless resistance.  You could always move.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2894</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/#comment-2894</guid>
		<description>Woody.  Actually, they weren&#039;t dealing with the same constitution that existed prior to the civil war.  The 15th amendment was a post civil war amendment.  The constitution was amended using a legal process spelled out in... you guessed it, the constitution.  Sadly, the federal government did not enforce it until many years later.  That doesn&#039;t change the fact that their was a constitutional basis for federal intervention in the Jim Crow south and that intervention was based on state imposed limits on constitutionally protected rights spelled out inn the 15th amendment to the constitution.  Consumption of alcohol and dog fighting are not prohibited or protected by the constitution.  Therefore, they are left up to the states.  If not protected or prohibited by the states, they are left up to local government.   Also...     

- San Francisco couldn&#039;t legalize treason because it specifically designated as a crime in the constitution.

- The constitution does not protect or ban the possession of alcohol.  Neither does, I suspect, you state constitution.  Therefore, your county is well within in rights to introduce an ordinance regulating it.

Lets simplify.

- Please lay out for me, a constitutional basis for federal regulation of medical marijuana.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woody.  Actually, they weren&#8217;t dealing with the same constitution that existed prior to the civil war.  The 15th amendment was a post civil war amendment.  The constitution was amended using a legal process spelled out in&#8230; you guessed it, the constitution.  Sadly, the federal government did not enforce it until many years later.  That doesn&#8217;t change the fact that their was a constitutional basis for federal intervention in the Jim Crow south and that intervention was based on state imposed limits on constitutionally protected rights spelled out inn the 15th amendment to the constitution.  Consumption of alcohol and dog fighting are not prohibited or protected by the constitution.  Therefore, they are left up to the states.  If not protected or prohibited by the states, they are left up to local government.   Also&#8230;     </p>
<p>- San Francisco couldn&#8217;t legalize treason because it specifically designated as a crime in the constitution.</p>
<p>- The constitution does not protect or ban the possession of alcohol.  Neither does, I suspect, you state constitution.  Therefore, your county is well within in rights to introduce an ordinance regulating it.</p>
<p>Lets simplify.</p>
<p>- Please lay out for me, a constitutional basis for federal regulation of medical marijuana.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-2888</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/state-government/2007/admin/breakingfeds-launch-raids-just-as-city-council-passes-preliminary-med-pot-vote/#comment-2888</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Well, my html coding got messed up on that last part.  Here it is again.&lt;/i&gt;


Why the U.S. (thanks to Jimmy Carter) thinks that the federal government even has the right to decide policies of school boards elected by local and state citizens.  &lt;b&gt;There is no power that the federal government will reserve to states anymore if the feds want it&lt;/b&gt;.

&lt;b&gt;LotS&lt;/b&gt;, it&#039;s not about scientific proof about marijuana.  Isn&#039;t it about &quot;consensus,&quot; or so the Al Gore types claim on another issue.  You can come up with whatever study that you want to &quot;prove&quot; whatever you want.  My first hand observations, however, have been that people who use heavy drugs first tried marijuana.  Once one high becomes commonplace, there is a tendency to move to the next step up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Well, my html coding got messed up on that last part.  Here it is again.</i></p>
<p>Why the U.S. (thanks to Jimmy Carter) thinks that the federal government even has the right to decide policies of school boards elected by local and state citizens.  <b>There is no power that the federal government will reserve to states anymore if the feds want it</b>.</p>
<p><b>LotS</b>, it&#8217;s not about scientific proof about marijuana.  Isn&#8217;t it about &#8220;consensus,&#8221; or so the Al Gore types claim on another issue.  You can come up with whatever study that you want to &#8220;prove&#8221; whatever you want.  My first hand observations, however, have been that people who use heavy drugs first tried marijuana.  Once one high becomes commonplace, there is a tendency to move to the next step up.</p>
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