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	<title>Comments on: HILLARY and the Winning XX Factor</title>
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		<title>By: maggie</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-2/#comment-5645</link>
		<dc:creator>maggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>By the way, Gabriel makes about as much (non)sense as reg does and he probably is also unburdened with a college education.  -- Honestly, &quot;reg,&quot; if it weren&#039;t for the nature of your comments, I&#039;d give you high marks for taking the time to read (obviously a lot) and analyze politics and society.  But in your case, it&#039;s like a would-be violinist who&#039;s never had any training, it&#039;s just a lot of noise.  And my ears hurt, so I&#039;ve put on those earplugs you mentioned.

Your last 2 paras under 55 are a real classic, though -- in no way reflecting Bloom&#039;s clear, plain and organized English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, Gabriel makes about as much (non)sense as reg does and he probably is also unburdened with a college education.  &#8212; Honestly, &#8220;reg,&#8221; if it weren&#8217;t for the nature of your comments, I&#8217;d give you high marks for taking the time to read (obviously a lot) and analyze politics and society.  But in your case, it&#8217;s like a would-be violinist who&#8217;s never had any training, it&#8217;s just a lot of noise.  And my ears hurt, so I&#8217;ve put on those earplugs you mentioned.</p>
<p>Your last 2 paras under 55 are a real classic, though &#8212; in no way reflecting Bloom&#8217;s clear, plain and organized English.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavriel de dias Montez de Amontollado y tan muchos preguntas</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-2/#comment-5644</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavriel de dias Montez de Amontollado y tan muchos preguntas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I didn&#039;t read it, except anyone who calls my reasonable objection to the fringe job Brooks and her comments &quot;indefensible crap sputtered,&quot; is such a fringe nutcase himself, that I&#039;ll never read anything he says again.  Just looking at his &quot;name&quot; conjures up an ill feeling, of some bitter person whose glory time was when they were marching with the Black Panthers and taking over student unions (like the one at Cornell Bloom writes about) with guns, imprisoning professors... Ah, the glory days that sputtered out as soon as MOST of them grew up.

His &quot;being unburdened by a university education&quot; says a lot.

Seems to ramble about college grads being illiterates based on his random sampling of those with marketing and business degrees (or engineering) -- exactly where you turn if you can&#039;t put three sentences together.  And no decent Ivy League university has a &quot;communications&quot; major (those are all from second-rate places for aspiring newsreaders etc.):  they have rigorous English and philosophy training, with demands for proficiency in modern foreign languages and often Latin.  So many of these people go on to law school for a &quot;real job.&quot;

None of them would sit through any of reg&#039;s incoherent, bitter slings, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t read it, except anyone who calls my reasonable objection to the fringe job Brooks and her comments &#8220;indefensible crap sputtered,&#8221; is such a fringe nutcase himself, that I&#8217;ll never read anything he says again.  Just looking at his &#8220;name&#8221; conjures up an ill feeling, of some bitter person whose glory time was when they were marching with the Black Panthers and taking over student unions (like the one at Cornell Bloom writes about) with guns, imprisoning professors&#8230; Ah, the glory days that sputtered out as soon as MOST of them grew up.</p>
<p>His &#8220;being unburdened by a university education&#8221; says a lot.</p>
<p>Seems to ramble about college grads being illiterates based on his random sampling of those with marketing and business degrees (or engineering) &#8212; exactly where you turn if you can&#8217;t put three sentences together.  And no decent Ivy League university has a &#8220;communications&#8221; major (those are all from second-rate places for aspiring newsreaders etc.):  they have rigorous English and philosophy training, with demands for proficiency in modern foreign languages and often Latin.  So many of these people go on to law school for a &#8220;real job.&#8221;</p>
<p>None of them would sit through any of reg&#8217;s incoherent, bitter slings, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-2/#comment-5640</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Did anyone actually read all of that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did anyone actually read all of that?</p>
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		<title>By: "reg"</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-2/#comment-5625</link>
		<dc:creator>"reg"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/#comment-5625</guid>
		<description>Regarding Allen Bloom (not that this has anything with the utterly indefensible crap sputtered above about Iran, Rosa Brooks, Zakaria or anything else), I&#039;ve read him and, while he was obviously a bit of a crank whose life and demise was steeped in irony - given the uses and agendas his name has become routinely attached to - I don&#039;t simply reject his perspective. The biggest difference is that I probably have far less concern for academia than Bloom does. I&#039;m often thankful that I&#039;m unburdened by a university education. Many of those least capable of critical thinking I encounter have university degrees - generally in things like marketing, management, business administration or &quot;communications&quot; (whatever that is). The smartest, least agenda-driven review of Bloom I&#039;ve read is Jim Sleepers from a few years back in the Times Book Reveiw:


Far from being a conservative ideologue, Bloom, a University of Chicago professor of political philosophy who died in 1992, was an eccentric interpreter of Enlightenment thought who led an Epicurean, quietly gay life. He had to be prodded to write his best-selling book by his friend Saul Bellow, whose novel &#039;&#039;Ravelstein&#039;&#039; is a wry tribute to Bloom. Far more than liberal speech codes and diversity regimens, the bÃªtes noires of the intellectual right, darkened Bloom&#039;s horizons: He also mistrusted modernity, capitalism and even democracy so deeply that he believed the university&#039;s culture must be adversarial (or at least subtly subversive) before America&#039;s market society, with its vulgar blandishments, religious enthusiasms and populist incursions.

&#039;&#039;The semitheoretical attacks of right and left on the university and its knowledge, the increased demands made on it by society, the enormous expansion of higher education,&#039;&#039; Bloom wrote, &#039;&#039;have combined to obscure&#039;&#039; the universities&#039; mission &#039;&#039;to maintain the permanent questions front and center&#039;&#039; and &#039;&#039;to provide a publicly respectable place . . . for scholars and students to be unhindered in their use of reason.&#039;&#039;

Some conservatives may insist they are saying exactly that. But Bloom warned that liberal education is threatened as well by &#039;&#039;proponents of the free market,&#039;&#039; whose promise of social well-being &#039;&#039;no longer compels belief,&#039;&#039; and by religious belief that, &#039;&#039;contrary to containing capitalism&#039;s propensities, as Tocqueville thought it should, is now intended to encourage them.&#039;&#039;

Bloom argued that our capitalist economy and liberal-democratic order turn civic virtue to mercenary ends. To cultivate &#039;&#039;the use of reason beyond the calculation of self-interest,&#039;&#039; he contended, &#039;&#039;it is necessary that there be an unpopular institution in our midst that . . . resists our powerful urges and temptations.&#039;&#039;

(snip)

Bloom wanted liberal education to resist both &#039;&#039;whatever is most powerful&#039;&#039; and the &#039;&#039;worship of vulgar success.&#039;&#039; True openness, he said, &#039;&#039;means closedness to all the charms that make us comfortable with the present.&#039;&#039; He disdained professors who strive to become counselors to the king and forget that &#039;&#039;the intellectual, who attempts to influence . . . ends up in the power of the would-be influenced.&#039;&#039; (end clip)


(Perhaps his student Paul Wolfowitz should have taken Allen Bloom&#039;s counsel more seriously. The right-wing hacks who tout Allen Bloom only read about half of him.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Allen Bloom (not that this has anything with the utterly indefensible crap sputtered above about Iran, Rosa Brooks, Zakaria or anything else), I&#8217;ve read him and, while he was obviously a bit of a crank whose life and demise was steeped in irony &#8211; given the uses and agendas his name has become routinely attached to &#8211; I don&#8217;t simply reject his perspective. The biggest difference is that I probably have far less concern for academia than Bloom does. I&#8217;m often thankful that I&#8217;m unburdened by a university education. Many of those least capable of critical thinking I encounter have university degrees &#8211; generally in things like marketing, management, business administration or &#8220;communications&#8221; (whatever that is). The smartest, least agenda-driven review of Bloom I&#8217;ve read is Jim Sleepers from a few years back in the Times Book Reveiw:</p>
<p>Far from being a conservative ideologue, Bloom, a University of Chicago professor of political philosophy who died in 1992, was an eccentric interpreter of Enlightenment thought who led an Epicurean, quietly gay life. He had to be prodded to write his best-selling book by his friend Saul Bellow, whose novel &#8221;Ravelstein&#8221; is a wry tribute to Bloom. Far more than liberal speech codes and diversity regimens, the bÃªtes noires of the intellectual right, darkened Bloom&#8217;s horizons: He also mistrusted modernity, capitalism and even democracy so deeply that he believed the university&#8217;s culture must be adversarial (or at least subtly subversive) before America&#8217;s market society, with its vulgar blandishments, religious enthusiasms and populist incursions.</p>
<p>&#8221;The semitheoretical attacks of right and left on the university and its knowledge, the increased demands made on it by society, the enormous expansion of higher education,&#8221; Bloom wrote, &#8221;have combined to obscure&#8221; the universities&#8217; mission &#8221;to maintain the permanent questions front and center&#8221; and &#8221;to provide a publicly respectable place . . . for scholars and students to be unhindered in their use of reason.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some conservatives may insist they are saying exactly that. But Bloom warned that liberal education is threatened as well by &#8221;proponents of the free market,&#8221; whose promise of social well-being &#8221;no longer compels belief,&#8221; and by religious belief that, &#8221;contrary to containing capitalism&#8217;s propensities, as Tocqueville thought it should, is now intended to encourage them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Bloom argued that our capitalist economy and liberal-democratic order turn civic virtue to mercenary ends. To cultivate &#8221;the use of reason beyond the calculation of self-interest,&#8221; he contended, &#8221;it is necessary that there be an unpopular institution in our midst that . . . resists our powerful urges and temptations.&#8221;</p>
<p>(snip)</p>
<p>Bloom wanted liberal education to resist both &#8221;whatever is most powerful&#8221; and the &#8221;worship of vulgar success.&#8221; True openness, he said, &#8221;means closedness to all the charms that make us comfortable with the present.&#8221; He disdained professors who strive to become counselors to the king and forget that &#8221;the intellectual, who attempts to influence . . . ends up in the power of the would-be influenced.&#8221; (end clip)</p>
<p>(Perhaps his student Paul Wolfowitz should have taken Allen Bloom&#8217;s counsel more seriously. The right-wing hacks who tout Allen Bloom only read about half of him.)</p>
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		<title>By: Gavriel de dias Montez de Amontollado y tan muchos preguntas</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-2/#comment-5624</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavriel de dias Montez de Amontollado y tan muchos preguntas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Lo siento, mi hermano Che no sabe informacion de el jefe Bush exactamente.  Por favor, revolver manana.  Todos los locos revuelen acqi, tu hermana, una &quot;hermana wack job,&quot; yo, juana de sepulveda del toro de sanchez y perez,  yo, promiso que voy a volver manana.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lo siento, mi hermano Che no sabe informacion de el jefe Bush exactamente.  Por favor, revolver manana.  Todos los locos revuelen acqi, tu hermana, una &#8220;hermana wack job,&#8221; yo, juana de sepulveda del toro de sanchez y perez,  yo, promiso que voy a volver manana.</p>
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		<title>By: che guevara</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-2/#comment-5621</link>
		<dc:creator>che guevara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/#comment-5621</guid>
		<description>Muchos gracias, senor Los angeles, y por favor, recuerdiese de mi amigo y compadres, hugo chaves y el hermano, el jefe de Iran, Sr. Ihmanehisad -- lo siento, no me recuerde el nombre exactamene.  Pero uno punto, tengo con seguridad:  Presidente Bush y la segundo, Cheneey, estan locas.  Y quieres, conoce que los Bushes, padre y el doce, estan diablos y locos, Ahora, por favor, dame la comida libre que usted me promese?   Tengo doce en las esquelas, y tengo que irme, hay muchos trabahos manana, y es manana ahora.  Pero, es mejor de todos los ciudades de &quot;Latinismo,&quot; donde, mis jefes no les gustan los idiocas.  Los idiocas tienen casas y casandos, solamente aqui.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Muchos gracias, senor Los angeles, y por favor, recuerdiese de mi amigo y compadres, hugo chaves y el hermano, el jefe de Iran, Sr. Ihmanehisad &#8212; lo siento, no me recuerde el nombre exactamene.  Pero uno punto, tengo con seguridad:  Presidente Bush y la segundo, Cheneey, estan locas.  Y quieres, conoce que los Bushes, padre y el doce, estan diablos y locos, Ahora, por favor, dame la comida libre que usted me promese?   Tengo doce en las esquelas, y tengo que irme, hay muchos trabahos manana, y es manana ahora.  Pero, es mejor de todos los ciudades de &#8220;Latinismo,&#8221; donde, mis jefes no les gustan los idiocas.  Los idiocas tienen casas y casandos, solamente aqui.</p>
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		<title>By: L.A. Resident</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-2/#comment-5617</link>
		<dc:creator>L.A. Resident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I hope there is plenty of wine at the dinner party, a certain lady sure needs to &quot;chill&quot; with a few glasses of wine. There is nothing like going ballistic with those imaginary terrorist loving, and radical leftist of the 70&#039;s in the age of cyber-space. 

&lt;b&gt;Oh yea, I almost forgot â€¦â€¦..
Que Viva Che Quevara y Fidel Castro,  Que Viva la Revolucion !!!!!  &lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope there is plenty of wine at the dinner party, a certain lady sure needs to &#8220;chill&#8221; with a few glasses of wine. There is nothing like going ballistic with those imaginary terrorist loving, and radical leftist of the 70&#8217;s in the age of cyber-space. </p>
<p><b>Oh yea, I almost forgot â€¦â€¦..<br />
Que Viva Che Quevara y Fidel Castro,  Que Viva la Revolucion !!!!!  </b></p>
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		<title>By: maggie</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-2/#comment-5616</link>
		<dc:creator>maggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 06:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Celeste, I think I&#039;d decline the invite, but if you have him at any dinner party, don&#039;t forget the Tums -- no, make that Prilosec, Benefiber, and of course Beano.  With all that hot and unpleasant air going around...

Reread Allan Bloom&#039;s Closing of the American Mind, about your gen and what they did to academia and society.  Title = apt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Celeste, I think I&#8217;d decline the invite, but if you have him at any dinner party, don&#8217;t forget the Tums &#8212; no, make that Prilosec, Benefiber, and of course Beano.  With all that hot and unpleasant air going around&#8230;</p>
<p>Reread Allan Bloom&#8217;s Closing of the American Mind, about your gen and what they did to academia and society.  Title = apt.</p>
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		<title>By: reg</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-5615</link>
		<dc:creator>reg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 06:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What? No possum?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What? No possum?</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/national-politics/2007/admin/hillary-and-the-winning-xx-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-5612</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Celeste, I figured that, if reg and I were at a dinner table at the same time, he would be the server.  However, if I ever had the opportunity to serve him, the main course would be crow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Celeste, I figured that, if reg and I were at a dinner table at the same time, he would be the server.  However, if I ever had the opportunity to serve him, the main course would be crow.</p>
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