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	<title>Comments on: NOT AGAIN:  The DEA Evidently Didn&#8217;t Get the Memo</title>
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		<title>By: John Moore</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-111398</link>
		<dc:creator>John Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 02:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-111398</guid>
		<description>Reg,
  The over-extension of the interstate commerce clause is demonstrated by your examples. For the government to regulate (or outlaw) something because it &lt;b&gt;might have or &lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;might&lt;/b&gt; cross state lines is an over-reach, and goes well beyond the wording of the constitution and intent of the founders.

  &quot;States rights&quot; are part of the founding of our country and are explicitly written into the constitution:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Many of us (usually conservatives) believe that the Constitution should be applied as written and intended, because it has an amendment process to keep it current.

Unfortunately, many others (usually on the left) prefer the &quot;living Constitution&quot; view, preferring the fiats of judges to the wisdom of the people (via the amendment process) to &quot;modernize&quot; the application of the Constitution.

Of course, too many on both sides let their goal of drug prohibition blind them to the unconstitutionality of many of the laws enacted in that cause.

.........

As for the &quot;real world&quot; argument... principles exist as principles. The application and political strength of those principles is of course subject to the political process. The purpose of the Constitution was to greatly and strictly limit the powers of the Federal Government. That purpose has been long ignored as inconvenient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reg,<br />
  The over-extension of the interstate commerce clause is demonstrated by your examples. For the government to regulate (or outlaw) something because it <b>might have or </b><b>might</b> cross state lines is an over-reach, and goes well beyond the wording of the constitution and intent of the founders.</p>
<p>  &#8220;States rights&#8221; are part of the founding of our country and are explicitly written into the constitution:</p>
<blockquote><p>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.</p></blockquote>
<p>Many of us (usually conservatives) believe that the Constitution should be applied as written and intended, because it has an amendment process to keep it current.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, many others (usually on the left) prefer the &#8220;living Constitution&#8221; view, preferring the fiats of judges to the wisdom of the people (via the amendment process) to &#8220;modernize&#8221; the application of the Constitution.</p>
<p>Of course, too many on both sides let their goal of drug prohibition blind them to the unconstitutionality of many of the laws enacted in that cause.</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;real world&#8221; argument&#8230; principles exist as principles. The application and political strength of those principles is of course subject to the political process. The purpose of the Constitution was to greatly and strictly limit the powers of the Federal Government. That purpose has been long ignored as inconvenient.</p>
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		<title>By: "reg"</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-111272</link>
		<dc:creator>"reg"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 18:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-111272</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Wilson was so progressive and an enemy of states rights he is alleged to have outlawed heroin but utterly failed to enforce the 14th Amendment.  He rather famously hosted a screening of Birth of a Nation at the White House and was close friends with the novelist who wrote the source material. So I don&#039;t think Wilson, unfortunately, was anything other than a racist hack when it came to the historically encoded and reality-based version of &quot;states rights.&quot;   

Also, drugs have a nasty habit of crossing state lines - even being imported from abroad, so while I&#039;m not a fan of drug laws the federal interest, certainly in volume sales, is well-established and undoubtedly constitutional. Even chocolate chip cookies are subject to federal regulation and inter-state commerce laws when they enter the retail market (despite the fact that it&#039;s common for Ma to whip up a batch in her kitchen - something she&#039;d better not try with methamphetamine or distilled alcohol.)  I don&#039;t think state medical marijuana laws can do much more than shift the debate and try to re-shape the focus of enforcement, future federal law-making and constitutional interpretation.  &quot;States Rights&quot; don&#039;t exist as some Platonic ideal  (vis. the history of the 14th Amendment) but in a real world of ideological contention, cultural bias, empiricism/pragmatism and political conflict.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Wilson was so progressive and an enemy of states rights he is alleged to have outlawed heroin but utterly failed to enforce the 14th Amendment.  He rather famously hosted a screening of Birth of a Nation at the White House and was close friends with the novelist who wrote the source material. So I don&#8217;t think Wilson, unfortunately, was anything other than a racist hack when it came to the historically encoded and reality-based version of &#8220;states rights.&#8221;   </p>
<p>Also, drugs have a nasty habit of crossing state lines &#8211; even being imported from abroad, so while I&#8217;m not a fan of drug laws the federal interest, certainly in volume sales, is well-established and undoubtedly constitutional. Even chocolate chip cookies are subject to federal regulation and inter-state commerce laws when they enter the retail market (despite the fact that it&#8217;s common for Ma to whip up a batch in her kitchen &#8211; something she&#8217;d better not try with methamphetamine or distilled alcohol.)  I don&#8217;t think state medical marijuana laws can do much more than shift the debate and try to re-shape the focus of enforcement, future federal law-making and constitutional interpretation.  &#8220;States Rights&#8221; don&#8217;t exist as some Platonic ideal  (vis. the history of the 14th Amendment) but in a real world of ideological contention, cultural bias, empiricism/pragmatism and political conflict.</p>
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		<title>By: John Moore</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-110546</link>
		<dc:creator>John Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-110546</guid>
		<description>Well, you&#039;re right. That great progressive Wilson was able to get through a law violating states rights way back then.

Where in the Constitution does it give the &lt;b&gt;Federal&lt;/b&gt; government the power to regulate drugs or anything else that doesn&#039;t cross state lines?

The New Dealers did run into states rights issues because I guess the courts were less friendly to economic violations of the Constitution than to those affecting personal liberty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you&#8217;re right. That great progressive Wilson was able to get through a law violating states rights way back then.</p>
<p>Where in the Constitution does it give the <b>Federal</b> government the power to regulate drugs or anything else that doesn&#8217;t cross state lines?</p>
<p>The New Dealers did run into states rights issues because I guess the courts were less friendly to economic violations of the Constitution than to those affecting personal liberty.</p>
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		<title>By: reg</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-110514</link>
		<dc:creator>reg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-110514</guid>
		<description>Which year of FDR&#039;s presidency was the Harrison act, which effectively outlawed heroin and cocaine at the federal level passed ?  I forget ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which year of FDR&#8217;s presidency was the Harrison act, which effectively outlawed heroin and cocaine at the federal level passed ?  I forget &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: John Moore</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-110450</link>
		<dc:creator>John Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-110450</guid>
		<description>Reg, the 14th Amendment was passed specifically to protect against practices such as segregation, and even today most states rights supporters support that interpretation.

The drug enforcement powers come from obscene extensions of the Commerce Clause, which were championed by the liberals of the New Deal because they allowed many New Deal programs that otherwise would have required Constitutional Amendments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reg, the 14th Amendment was passed specifically to protect against practices such as segregation, and even today most states rights supporters support that interpretation.</p>
<p>The drug enforcement powers come from obscene extensions of the Commerce Clause, which were championed by the liberals of the New Deal because they allowed many New Deal programs that otherwise would have required Constitutional Amendments.</p>
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		<title>By: "reg"</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-110199</link>
		<dc:creator>"reg"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 04:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-110199</guid>
		<description>&quot;Elitist!&quot;   

 Ouch...


 &quot;Perhaps if the left was a stronger supporter of states&#039; rights over federal encroachment...&quot; we could have segregated medical marijuana facilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Elitist!&#8221;   </p>
<p> Ouch&#8230;</p>
<p> &#8220;Perhaps if the left was a stronger supporter of states&#8217; rights over federal encroachment&#8230;&#8221; we could have segregated medical marijuana facilities.</p>
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		<title>By: John Moore</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-110174</link>
		<dc:creator>John Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 02:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-110174</guid>
		<description>Perhaps if the left was a stronger supporter of states&#039; rights over federal encroachment, the DEA wouldn&#039;t be enforcing local laws.

But then isn&#039;t if funny how liberals only want the feds defer to the state laws when it suits them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps if the left was a stronger supporter of states&#8217; rights over federal encroachment, the DEA wouldn&#8217;t be enforcing local laws.</p>
<p>But then isn&#8217;t if funny how liberals only want the feds defer to the state laws when it suits them.</p>
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		<title>By: Celeste Fremon</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-110021</link>
		<dc:creator>Celeste Fremon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-110021</guid>
		<description>FYI:  The proposed ordinance floated by the LA City Attorney&#039;s office, which is still being tinkered with and will be coming up for committee work in City Council the next couple of weeks, addresses---among other things----issues like dispensary density and regulates activity in and around the dispensaries.  (No smoking out in the parking lot and so on.)

I looked at the draft ordinance last night and some of it still a little nutso and based on paranoia that has no demonstrable basis, it&#039;s getting there.

By and large, by the way, dispensaries do their best NOT to draw attention, rather than the reverse.  When I reported on the issue for the Weekly I noticed that, if anything, they&#039;re hard to find as their signage, if they have any, is so subtle.  

Based on my observation, most of the stuff in that LA Times article about the worried &quot;not-in-my-neighborhood&quot; people, was based on paranoia and projected imaginings, not actual fact.

A SIDE NOTE:  

Several school quarters ago, one of my UCI students did a story about a landlord who had a space in his  building that had been vacant for some time, and he had to do decide whether or not to rent the space to some dispensary people, who turned up and were interested. My student detailed all the hassle he went through because of perception of the problems that the dispensary might bring, rather than the fact of it.  It was intriguing.  In the end, the landlord said no because he didn&#039;t want to deal with the bad blood  from the neighbors, not because of any real trouble that he determined the dispensary would bring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI:  The proposed ordinance floated by the LA City Attorney&#8217;s office, which is still being tinkered with and will be coming up for committee work in City Council the next couple of weeks, addresses&#8212;among other things&#8212;-issues like dispensary density and regulates activity in and around the dispensaries.  (No smoking out in the parking lot and so on.)</p>
<p>I looked at the draft ordinance last night and some of it still a little nutso and based on paranoia that has no demonstrable basis, it&#8217;s getting there.</p>
<p>By and large, by the way, dispensaries do their best NOT to draw attention, rather than the reverse.  When I reported on the issue for the Weekly I noticed that, if anything, they&#8217;re hard to find as their signage, if they have any, is so subtle.  </p>
<p>Based on my observation, most of the stuff in that LA Times article about the worried &#8220;not-in-my-neighborhood&#8221; people, was based on paranoia and projected imaginings, not actual fact.</p>
<p>A SIDE NOTE:  </p>
<p>Several school quarters ago, one of my UCI students did a story about a landlord who had a space in his  building that had been vacant for some time, and he had to do decide whether or not to rent the space to some dispensary people, who turned up and were interested. My student detailed all the hassle he went through because of perception of the problems that the dispensary might bring, rather than the fact of it.  It was intriguing.  In the end, the landlord said no because he didn&#8217;t want to deal with the bad blood  from the neighbors, not because of any real trouble that he determined the dispensary would bring.</p>
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		<title>By: dacalicious</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-109996</link>
		<dc:creator>dacalicious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 21:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-109996</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the update, Celeste. WBC, notably enough, the people complaining (was it Silver Lake or TOLUCA Lake, I&#039;m too lazy to look it up) weren&#039;t even AWARE of the number of shops in their neighborhood until they looked, &amp; nobody said people were smoking their purchases in front of the stores. They were just AFRAID they would. As for the Feds&#039; raids, this is the same &quot;legal&quot; gangsterism they &amp; select local officers have been practicing for some time -- invading a local business, often without a warrant, on some specious excuse, commandeering as much cash as they can find, &amp; breaking whatever&#039;s breakable. Not to mention in at least one case last year forcing an entire staff of young men -- &amp; women -- showing no resistance to lay down on their bellies at the point of AK47s while having their wrists bound with plastic handcuffs. This is &quot;cop culture&quot; at its worst, &amp; it will take a real effort by the Obama administration to curb their actions, as opposed to some happy talk in an interview or two. Let&#039;s hope it&#039;s coming!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the update, Celeste. WBC, notably enough, the people complaining (was it Silver Lake or TOLUCA Lake, I&#8217;m too lazy to look it up) weren&#8217;t even AWARE of the number of shops in their neighborhood until they looked, &amp; nobody said people were smoking their purchases in front of the stores. They were just AFRAID they would. As for the Feds&#8217; raids, this is the same &#8220;legal&#8221; gangsterism they &amp; select local officers have been practicing for some time &#8212; invading a local business, often without a warrant, on some specious excuse, commandeering as much cash as they can find, &amp; breaking whatever&#8217;s breakable. Not to mention in at least one case last year forcing an entire staff of young men &#8212; &amp; women &#8212; showing no resistance to lay down on their bellies at the point of AK47s while having their wrists bound with plastic handcuffs. This is &#8220;cop culture&#8221; at its worst, &amp; it will take a real effort by the Obama administration to curb their actions, as opposed to some happy talk in an interview or two. Let&#8217;s hope it&#8217;s coming!</p>
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		<title>By: WBC</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/comment-page-1/#comment-109985</link>
		<dc:creator>WBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/medical-marijuana/2009/admin/not-again-the-dea-evidently-didnt-get-the-memo/#comment-109985</guid>
		<description>I agree with this take in general, BUT at the same time, some residents in generally liberal and too-hip SilverLake were in the Times day or two ago for opposing so many (a dozen within a couple of blocks) pot dispensaries in their hood.  Said it attracts a dubious element, people who get sham Rx&#039;s and even smoke the pot right outside soon as they get out of the shops.  

So the issue seems to be better regulation, something the city&#039;s been wanting to get a handle on for a while but doesn&#039;t seem to have it right yet.  And yes, I agree that in the meantime, the DEA should stay out of it -- issue alerts and advisories/ promptings to the city about problem spots, but give the city the year it said it needs to sort things out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with this take in general, BUT at the same time, some residents in generally liberal and too-hip SilverLake were in the Times day or two ago for opposing so many (a dozen within a couple of blocks) pot dispensaries in their hood.  Said it attracts a dubious element, people who get sham Rx&#8217;s and even smoke the pot right outside soon as they get out of the shops.  </p>
<p>So the issue seems to be better regulation, something the city&#8217;s been wanting to get a handle on for a while but doesn&#8217;t seem to have it right yet.  And yes, I agree that in the meantime, the DEA should stay out of it &#8212; issue alerts and advisories/ promptings to the city about problem spots, but give the city the year it said it needs to sort things out.</p>
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