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	<title>Comments on: Can the LA Times Book Review Be Saved?</title>
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		<title>By: richard locicero</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-21113</link>
		<dc:creator>richard locicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-21113</guid>
		<description>Would that the old HER-EX were still around! What a shame! But then I even miss the HERALD-TRIBUNE. Now there was a writer&#039;s paper!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would that the old HER-EX were still around! What a shame! But then I even miss the HERALD-TRIBUNE. Now there was a writer&#8217;s paper!</p>
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		<title>By: Lionel Rolfe</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20944</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel Rolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20944</guid>
		<description>I have not enjoyed the LA Times Book Review in years. It was particularly pitiful under David Ulin. But the fact that the Times isn&#039;t going to even have a book review speaks volumes about the implosion going on over on Spring Street. I used to write for the Times book section under Digby Diehl, who also did an admirable job editing the book section of the old Herald-Examiner. That paper was actually gaining Sunday circulation when a deal was struck with the Chandlers to kill it. My bird -- a very intelligent African Gray named Oliver -- misses the book section too. It fit the bottom of his bird cage so nicely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not enjoyed the LA Times Book Review in years. It was particularly pitiful under David Ulin. But the fact that the Times isn&#8217;t going to even have a book review speaks volumes about the implosion going on over on Spring Street. I used to write for the Times book section under Digby Diehl, who also did an admirable job editing the book section of the old Herald-Examiner. That paper was actually gaining Sunday circulation when a deal was struck with the Chandlers to kill it. My bird &#8212; a very intelligent African Gray named Oliver &#8212; misses the book section too. It fit the bottom of his bird cage so nicely.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20920</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20920</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an interesting notion, dick adler.  But what was most important for the NYRB was the guidance of the founders--Robert Silvers, Barbara &amp; Jason Epstein, Elizabeth Hardwick, and A. Whitney Ellsworth--and the incredible pool of writers they had.  Talent and vision would be more important than money.  Hell, start out with a blog and put up PDFs.  Arthur Magazine is a good example of what can be done on a limited budget, but that&#039;s more idiosyncratic.

It certainly doesn&#039;t help that so many independent bookstores have closed in LA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting notion, dick adler.  But what was most important for the NYRB was the guidance of the founders&#8211;Robert Silvers, Barbara &amp; Jason Epstein, Elizabeth Hardwick, and A. Whitney Ellsworth&#8211;and the incredible pool of writers they had.  Talent and vision would be more important than money.  Hell, start out with a blog and put up PDFs.  Arthur Magazine is a good example of what can be done on a limited budget, but that&#8217;s more idiosyncratic.</p>
<p>It certainly doesn&#8217;t help that so many independent bookstores have closed in LA.</p>
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		<title>By: dick adler</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20900</link>
		<dc:creator>dick adler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20900</guid>
		<description>The NYReview, still the best, was started during a newspaper strike. Who in LA has the money and taste to start one here, now? David Geffen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NYReview, still the best, was started during a newspaper strike. Who in LA has the money and taste to start one here, now? David Geffen?</p>
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		<title>By: Celeste Fremon</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20897</link>
		<dc:creator>Celeste Fremon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20897</guid>
		<description>Woody, the cartoon is HILARIOUS.   And you&#039;re right, screw the letters, I say we take somebody hostage. (Kidding.  Sort of.)

Nice, thoughtful post, WBC.  You&#039;re right, David U., like me, is assuredly on the left (and a good friend), but he&#039;s also a great and very knowledgeable lover of books---both high brow and not (we first bonded over our fanaticism over certain mystery novels).  

Yet, if people like you feel left out when you read the BR, that&#039;s not good. That suggests mre of a balance is needed.  In terms of Opinion, I know there&#039;s a strong effort to print and recruit conservative Op Ed writers.  I certainly see &#039;em in the Opinion section---but then again, my pal Susan Brenneman is usually the one who edits those folks (for some reason) and I keep an eye on her work.

LL---Iâ€™m afraid that the LA Times isnâ€™t going to do more stories on gangsters being saved by poetry.  Thatâ€™s my job.  AND youâ€™ll be &lt;em&gt;delighted&lt;/em&gt; to know that thereâ€™s another such story coming this week---probably tomorrow morning, Friday latest.

Also, about City Hall, I think David Z.â€™s excellent AND he works his butt off, I promise you.  But they need more than just him and the editors need to let him off his leash---which is I think what likely irritates you.  When he was at the LA Weekly, he was far, far more critical of City Hall.  Now heâ€™s stuck in the land of LA Times neutral speak, which is not the best use of his talents, in my personal opinion.

Hi RLC, for my money both Wasserman and Ulin are great BR editors---each with different strengths. But Wasserman got out before the slashing, burning and pressure to dumb down began.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woody, the cartoon is HILARIOUS.   And you&#8217;re right, screw the letters, I say we take somebody hostage. (Kidding.  Sort of.)</p>
<p>Nice, thoughtful post, WBC.  You&#8217;re right, David U., like me, is assuredly on the left (and a good friend), but he&#8217;s also a great and very knowledgeable lover of books&#8212;both high brow and not (we first bonded over our fanaticism over certain mystery novels).  </p>
<p>Yet, if people like you feel left out when you read the BR, that&#8217;s not good. That suggests mre of a balance is needed.  In terms of Opinion, I know there&#8217;s a strong effort to print and recruit conservative Op Ed writers.  I certainly see &#8216;em in the Opinion section&#8212;but then again, my pal Susan Brenneman is usually the one who edits those folks (for some reason) and I keep an eye on her work.</p>
<p>LL&#8212;Iâ€™m afraid that the LA Times isnâ€™t going to do more stories on gangsters being saved by poetry.  Thatâ€™s my job.  AND youâ€™ll be <em>delighted</em> to know that thereâ€™s another such story coming this week&#8212;probably tomorrow morning, Friday latest.</p>
<p>Also, about City Hall, I think David Z.â€™s excellent AND he works his butt off, I promise you.  But they need more than just him and the editors need to let him off his leash&#8212;which is I think what likely irritates you.  When he was at the LA Weekly, he was far, far more critical of City Hall.  Now heâ€™s stuck in the land of LA Times neutral speak, which is not the best use of his talents, in my personal opinion.</p>
<p>Hi RLC, for my money both Wasserman and Ulin are great BR editors&#8212;each with different strengths. But Wasserman got out before the slashing, burning and pressure to dumb down began.</p>
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		<title>By: richard locicero</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20896</link>
		<dc:creator>richard locicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20896</guid>
		<description>Evan, the LATBR was, under Wasserman, Consistantly better than the the NYT. And only surpassed by the New York REVIEW OF BOOKS. I would often compare essays on the same work and Wasserman&#039;s people were better in every way - more knowledgable, bette3r writers, and more cincise and to the point.

Unfortunatly, Same Zell is of the Woody variety. Do you have any books at all Woddster except accounting texts and Regnery hatchet jobs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan, the LATBR was, under Wasserman, Consistantly better than the the NYT. And only surpassed by the New York REVIEW OF BOOKS. I would often compare essays on the same work and Wasserman&#8217;s people were better in every way &#8211; more knowledgable, bette3r writers, and more cincise and to the point.</p>
<p>Unfortunatly, Same Zell is of the Woody variety. Do you have any books at all Woddster except accounting texts and Regnery hatchet jobs?</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20892</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20892</guid>
		<description>Not too long ago, the LATBR was in my opinion, sometimes better than the NYTBR.  Under Wasserman, the reviews were more like essays, and it resembled the New York Review.  I don&#039;t like how skimpy it&#039;s gotten since, but something is better than nothing.  This was the last straw, and I&#039;ve canceled my subscription.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not too long ago, the LATBR was in my opinion, sometimes better than the NYTBR.  Under Wasserman, the reviews were more like essays, and it resembled the New York Review.  I don&#8217;t like how skimpy it&#8217;s gotten since, but something is better than nothing.  This was the last straw, and I&#8217;ve canceled my subscription.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20883</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20883</guid>
		<description>You guys are like a mini-U.N.  You write letters and pass useless group sanctions against your enemy, thinking that will change things, other than making you feel good.

This cartoon &lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.xkcd.com/451/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;(LINK)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; may explain the value and expertise of those who review books.  You can get anyone to make up the reviews.  Just don&#039;t expect a private company to pay for them just because you want that and write letters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys are like a mini-U.N.  You write letters and pass useless group sanctions against your enemy, thinking that will change things, other than making you feel good.</p>
<p>This cartoon <b><a href="http://www.xkcd.com/451/" rel="nofollow">(LINK)</a></b> may explain the value and expertise of those who review books.  You can get anyone to make up the reviews.  Just don&#8217;t expect a private company to pay for them just because you want that and write letters.</p>
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		<title>By: lost liberal</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20869</link>
		<dc:creator>lost liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20869</guid>
		<description>I am taking great pleasure at the demise of the Los Angeles Times, a newspaper which has its city hall reporter playing the piano at city hall instead of writing stories about the corruption in city hall. Builders and Developers are contributors to the same folks making decisions about their projects and the L.A. Times sees nothing or knows nothing. The FBI could come to Los Angeles and indict the Mayor and every city council member for corruption and the L.A. Times staff would know less than Colonel Klink and Sergeant Schultz (I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing).

The L.A. Times just needs to write a few more stories about the poor misunderstood gang members being victims of society who just needing to read poetry to be a reformed outstanding citizen, to provide the â€œbalancedâ€ reporting some complain about.  And maybe another sob story about the poor immigrant being deported back home for the 5th time. 

My real concern is what old newspaper will I now use to line the bottom of my parrotâ€™s cage, the parrot really enjoyed the L.A. Times and put it to good use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am taking great pleasure at the demise of the Los Angeles Times, a newspaper which has its city hall reporter playing the piano at city hall instead of writing stories about the corruption in city hall. Builders and Developers are contributors to the same folks making decisions about their projects and the L.A. Times sees nothing or knows nothing. The FBI could come to Los Angeles and indict the Mayor and every city council member for corruption and the L.A. Times staff would know less than Colonel Klink and Sergeant Schultz (I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing).</p>
<p>The L.A. Times just needs to write a few more stories about the poor misunderstood gang members being victims of society who just needing to read poetry to be a reformed outstanding citizen, to provide the â€œbalancedâ€ reporting some complain about.  And maybe another sob story about the poor immigrant being deported back home for the 5th time. </p>
<p>My real concern is what old newspaper will I now use to line the bottom of my parrotâ€™s cage, the parrot really enjoyed the L.A. Times and put it to good use.</p>
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		<title>By: WBC</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/comment-page-1/#comment-20828</link>
		<dc:creator>WBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/los-angeles-times/2008/admin/can-the-la-times-book-review-be-saved/#comment-20828</guid>
		<description>It would be absurd not to have at least some version of a Sunday Book Review -- in my college years, I used to read the entire NY Book Review (which is almost book=length by comp), the NY Review of Books, and skim some others -- but then I was working in the lit world at the time.  Still, tho I don&#039;t have that kind of time or dedication anymore, I can&#039;t imagine a &quot;real&quot; paper without a book review.  (Even papers like the Kansas City Star have always prided themselves on a decent one!)

But I&#039;ll admit, one reason I stopped taking the LA Times review too seriously is the leftist bias in most of the regular reviewers (like David Ulin), which often colors the review too much with personal bias; and it&#039;s also reflected in many of the the books they choose to review.  (This leftist bias has been noted by a lot of readers as a criticism of the Opinion section, even the slant of the articles themselves lately, even the headline slants -- which I&#039;ve noted on an occasion or two.)

Despite all this, if there were a genuine commitment to saving let alone improving the paper, it could be done just by focusing on more diverse points of view, including some from the more conservative writers that left-leaning intellectuals and professor types have a personal contempt for, but who speak for some readers -- just look at the online comments.  Most people, in my opinion, just want to be informed of what&#039;s going on in their communities and City Hall, without a political slant at all, insofar as possible.  

But Zell&#039;s leveraged buyout, as discussed in your earlier thread, never contemplated anything but taking it apart.  If it&#039;s any consolation, he seems to be dessimating his hometown paper the Tribune, too, though not quite as thoroughly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be absurd not to have at least some version of a Sunday Book Review &#8212; in my college years, I used to read the entire NY Book Review (which is almost book=length by comp), the NY Review of Books, and skim some others &#8212; but then I was working in the lit world at the time.  Still, tho I don&#8217;t have that kind of time or dedication anymore, I can&#8217;t imagine a &#8220;real&#8221; paper without a book review.  (Even papers like the Kansas City Star have always prided themselves on a decent one!)</p>
<p>But I&#8217;ll admit, one reason I stopped taking the LA Times review too seriously is the leftist bias in most of the regular reviewers (like David Ulin), which often colors the review too much with personal bias; and it&#8217;s also reflected in many of the the books they choose to review.  (This leftist bias has been noted by a lot of readers as a criticism of the Opinion section, even the slant of the articles themselves lately, even the headline slants &#8212; which I&#8217;ve noted on an occasion or two.)</p>
<p>Despite all this, if there were a genuine commitment to saving let alone improving the paper, it could be done just by focusing on more diverse points of view, including some from the more conservative writers that left-leaning intellectuals and professor types have a personal contempt for, but who speak for some readers &#8212; just look at the online comments.  Most people, in my opinion, just want to be informed of what&#8217;s going on in their communities and City Hall, without a political slant at all, insofar as possible.  </p>
<p>But Zell&#8217;s leveraged buyout, as discussed in your earlier thread, never contemplated anything but taking it apart.  If it&#8217;s any consolation, he seems to be dessimating his hometown paper the Tribune, too, though not quite as thoroughly.</p>
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