Comments on: MOCA and HOMEBOY: LA Treasures at Risk

By: Looney

Looney — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:22:02 +0000

HOMMIES CAN’T KEEP THEIR HANDS OUT OF THE COOKIE JAR…PLAIN AND SIMPLE! IT’S TIME WE STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE FOR THE HOMIES’ OWN DOING! PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO “FIX” HOMIES BECAUSE SUBCONSCIOUSLY THEY ARE TRYING TO FIX THEMSELVES…THEIR SHORTCOMINGS. YOU CAN’T “FIX” YOURSELF BY “FIXING” ANYONE ELSE!

By: Celeste Fremon

Celeste Fremon — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:41:46 +0000

Great commentary going on here.

By: Raul

Raul — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:38:35 +0000

I’m just a simple nobody but man, there are all kinds of good points here. I wouldn’t mind seeing people thrive more. I’m raza and I hate to see my people getting the short end of the stick. Like this vato said, maybe we just need a little extra help. I know father g is firme and all but you know people still look at us like were nada, like gente have to save us and shit. I’ve done tiempo in la pinta I todo el pedo. I tried to read a little in there…tu sabes…get a little knowledge going cause you know all these gabas no more than us and u never know what they are up to. I wish they can school us in that regard so we can handle our own and don’t be all tirados. Sabes que I don’t like people feeling sorry for me. If ur gonna teach me something than teach me. Ya estubo con todo ese pedo que we’re pobres’n’shit. Los homies need cletcha pa que sepan the real ropes. Take it from a vato that has been there.

By: Clever

Clever — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:26:30 +0000

Hey Alex — no offense taken. We are just here to challenge each other as well as learn from each other. The idea is for all us to get out of tunnel vision and narrow-mindedness. By evaluating the many perspectives and approaches we hope to get an appreciation of all that exists. More power to Homeboy Industries for doing what it does. Most definitely we have to keep all bases covered. If one agency falls short in one regard, maybe the next one can catch it. Ultimately, I think you and I come to agree on the main thing…PEOPLE first! I strongly believe in the Homeboys and have the utmost confidence that they can become more than they see themselves as. Although, at times we treat them as if they will not get to far. Planting seeds is a good thing, not only in Homeboys but in the people who render the services. I’m sure that we all have room to amp up our game!

By: Alex R.

Alex R. — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:19:55 +0000

To Clever,
I apologize if you took my last comment as if I judged you. My intentions are not to put anyone down or to criticize anyone, simply to share MY thoughts about Homeboy and clarify the meaning of the organization. Iâ€™ll repeat myself & clarify it.

â€œThere are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only few will catch your heart. Pursue those.â€ â€“ Michael N. Homeboy industries has caught my heart, so I pursue it.. It might not touch your heart and thatâ€™s ok, doesnâ€™t make you any less of a person. Like you said â€œWe are working to the same ends with different approachesâ€â€¦

Homeboy Industries is changing the world one homeboy/girl at a time. It is the biggest GANG intervention program in the U.S. the focus of homeboy is exactly that, working with homeboys/girls, and by doing so it alters the world to a positive direction. There are 1,000s of programs and organizations that believe in CHANGE, Homeboy is just one approach. You can be on this wagon, or the next, the paths we take are leading to the same ends.

By: Clever

Clever — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:01:51 +0000

Melissa, your questions are profound and valid and merit some good answers. If Homeboys philosophy is about accepting everyone as they are, and keeping the doors open to when Homeboys are ready for “change,” than shouldn’t this apply across the board? Why than are we asking people on the outside to change, pay attention, and fund this program? Shouldn’t we accept their apathy and negligence? After all, God loves everyone as they are…isn’t this what is preached at Homeboy? If what I say holds true, than Homeboy is selective as to what they believe is “good” and as to what people are “good.” This sounds like the same old Christian prescription. If it’s not about “changing” the homeboys but of “accepting” them, then why ask everyone else to change? Sounds to me like Homeboy has the same old agenda of converting people to their Christian paradigm. Nothing wrong with it. However, it perpetuates the cycle of colonization and imperialism. If history has taught us that change is imposed as well as inevitable, than why not shift into a new direction once again. Change doesn’t mean the ultimate solution, but it is necessary and natural. Five centuries, Christianity didn’t mind changing others. They believed in change, although the way they went about it was brutal. Why are they fearing change now? The change progressive thinkers preach is not violent at all. It is a change in perspective…it is a paradigm shift…not a re-inventing of the wheel. By changing perspectives we begin to create a new language. From language we derive our understanding of, and agreement(s), of life, henceforth, belief systems and mindsets are formulated. The idea of “helping” can definitely hold new meaning and approaches. Agape love is Christian and valid. Compassion is universal as well as it Christian. Forgiveness is also Christian and universal. But think about how difficult these values are to practice from people on the other side of the spectrum. How about that mother who lost her child to “that thug?” How about that daughter “that the thug raped?” What if one of your dearest loved ones was murdered or shot by a homie? The values of compassion, forgiveness, etc. seem easier preached than practiced. Just to share a personal story with you, I witnessed my fathers sentencing to ten years in prison many years back to Corcoran State Prison, and his permanent deportation upon his release. It broke my heart to pieces. I was really angry at the system and felt it was a huge injustice. My father was a hard working law abiding man. I often questioned why certain Homeboys roamed the streets getting away with murder (literally) while my father was locked up. It killed me inside. Many people are angry and hurt out there Mellisa, that the gangsters have taken their loved ones. Should we not feel compassion for these people? As I said, there are many complex questions in life that cannot be answered. I do believe, however, in overcoming pain and anguish and definitely I believe in change. I also believe that opportunity is out there for everyone. We are providing opportunity for everyone. Roosevelt High School provides bilingual education for those who want to master English. Public schools are there for young people to learn and take advantage of education. Yes, some fall through the cracks and others have other talents. That is why there are the East L.A. Skills Center and the Occupational Center where you can learn vocational trades, like mechanics, air conditioning repair, etc. You have Art Share Los Angeles, free of charge to those with artistic talent, and who wish to pursue artistic endeavors. You have job agencies, free bus tokens, welfare money, for those who need a push, food stamps, WIC, etc. etc. I don’t understand where the idea “of no opportunity comes from.” Do the homies require to be taken by the hand to these places? It’s hard to believe that there are no opportunities that you speak of. The question is, what will it take to get the Homeboys to get to this services on their own? Oh…”it’s because they can’t cross enemy territory.” O.K…so there you have it. It’s not that there is nor opportunity. It’s that they are gang members. Again, we all must change together…not one group of people or another. The Homeboys have/must stop walking around like they are walking targets. It is really up to them to change, and not the rest of the community and society. It’s as easy as growing your hair, removing your visible tattoos and changing your attitude. I think people are ready to forgive for those who are willing to take steps towards change.

By: Melissa Z

Melissa Z — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:44:06 +0000

To Clever
I appreciate your point of view and I believe you make a valid point. I agree that enabling people…to do wrong, is harmful.

However, how do we determine where providing opportunity to those who need it, want it, and are willing to make changes, ends, and enabling begins?

Obviously each and every individual has a different outcome. So, do we sacrifice the ones who will change, for the one’s who won’t?

And in regards to the hypothetical question you posed, my answer is this;
I believe I would do whatever I could to help my brother. I would never lose hope that he would one day be healed.
I would maintain my faith, even if from a distance.
All because I know that if it were me that were seemingly hopeless, I would want someone to have faith in me.
I would want someone to show me unconditional love.

And maybe I sound like some bleeding heart…like a delusional idealist, but I don’t care. I believe we are all gifts. We are all valuable. Some just realize it more than others.
I also believe that has everything to do with the type of foundation and environment you are provided with since inception, and social conditioning in general.
That is why people in third world country’s can survive. They know nothing else.
That is why many of our people believe we are not worthy or capable of greatness. They know nothing else.
As for the term “homeboy,” it is whatever you make of it. Maybe one person pictures a gangster. I think of a friend. What people refer to you as, does not necessarily make it definitive of you. Just like everything else, it is a matter of percetion.

If it is possible for us to provide a new foundation to those who were not afforded that luxury at birth, why wouldn’t we?

-
Melissa

By: Clever

Clever — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:31:19 +0000

Mr. Alex R., it seems you are also very quick to judge and not give some matters a little more thought. You pick and choose what you want to pick apart in people’s words and miss the bigger point. I believe in interdependence. Within interdependence there is such a thing as individuals. Each person in the large connected web have individual unique talents and unique traits…and I mean every single person. Of course there are many things that catch my heart…as well as my eye. I’ve lived many intense experiences in my life and have witnessed the many injustices in the world. One thing that I have gotten over is the need to feel “touched” and all hockie pokie all the time. It’s not a good idea for you, and Homeboy, to foreclose prematurly on identity. You hold fast to your conclusion of what service is. The term “Homeboy” unfortunately is associated with negative connotations. It shouldn’t, but it is. It is a label. I call the “homies” lazy asses as because I can and because they can be. I also know in my heart that they can be amazing. We are working to the same ends with different approaches. This doesn’t mean that you “only catch with your heart” and I “with my eye.” I am a full-blown human being, therefore, on occasions I will be on different moods. I allow myself to be…not stringent and forceful one view point. I am not the one to define “goodness” and “non-goodness.” This all is interpreted by ones own value system, indoctrination and domestication, as well as religiously. What I do attempt whole heartedly is to be as open-minded as possible to stretch myself far and learn to appreciate that many perspectives that exist, as well as the many approaches to the world’s problems. I’m not going to sit here and give you lines of quotes that I have read because I’d rather learn about life myself and create my own quotes along the way. I want to leave a trail, not follow your path. You seem to be a Homeboy Bandwagoner and think as the same. I doubt father Greg will dislike you if you actually have a real opinion. What is more, I doubt that God will stop loving you. I don’t mind having a discussion with you. I see and hear some of your points but I have heard them all from prior Homeboy Bandwagoners. Nothing new seems to come out of it. “The homeboys have it bad, nobody listens to them, one homeboy at a time,” etc. All good and dandy but we need some more alternatives. We need an extra push. What do you suggest? All that Homeboy provides sounds excellent. What angle is Homeboy missing that would energize the Homeboys and get them to be self-advocates sooner because lord knows they are having babies faster than they grow mentally. Not only are they having babies fast and leaving them to tax payers but they are also quick learners when it comes to committing crimes. In my opinion it takes a few brains to think out crimes. How can we shift this thought process to more productive means? We should sit down and have this discussion Alex. What do you say? Change is inevitable. Let’s combine all approaches and hope for some serious results.

By: Alex R.

Alex R. — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:17:06 +0000

To Clever, just to clear some things out.
The word “homeboys” is a title, not a form or way to consider these men & women a “disability” or to be looked down on, simply a title. And again, you judge Homeboy Ind. on individuals. I donâ€™t consider the homeboys/girls that print our shirts, bake our bread, kook our food, clean our buildings/streets, run the many classes homeboy ind offers, and those that simply show up everyday to better there lives, I would not consider or refer to them as LAZY ASS’S. so â€We ARE our brothers keepers.â€ And I agree, “Birds need to learn to fly and leave the nest” and this is something that Homeboy Industries does, some just take longer than others, but we are nobody to judge anyone. Lastly when you use examples of third world countries & the country we live in, you open the fields to many topics. â€“Alex.

â€œThere are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only few will catch your heart. Pursue those.â€ â€“ Michael Nolan.

By: Clever

Clever — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:48:41 +0000

To Melissa Z: Indeed we are our brothers keeper. That’s why I know that if you’re brother is fucking up and he can do better, you will let him know. I doubt that you will support your brother, pay his rent, buy his food, etc. for the rest of his life. To be your brothers keeper is to give him a hand, and a push, in times of need, not to support and sustain his lazy ass. In regards to “being down and out,” I’m sure every person on the planet has experienced it. That what life is comprised of, up’s and down’s. You are right, Hope is what keeps us alive. Just look at people in Bangladesh. How can they be alive one more day? People with literal crumbs for food. Yet, here they are, hanging on. For these folks it is seriously about HOPE! For homeboys, it’s about getting off their ass and realizing that they are capable of taking care of business. If they keep leaving their duty to obtain food to others, they will never leave the nest. Yes, there is a thing called compassion. That is why I will not continue to psychologically cripple them by doing the thinking and hunting for them. Compassion is what is best and doing what is necessary for the development of individuals, at all levels. Birds need to learn to fly and leave the nest. This is a natural phenomena. Think about it, why is it that people can manage to survive in third world countries with minimal resources and no welfare system, yet the homeboys can barely make it on their own in a first world country? I believe it is domestication and false conditioning which breed in inner city youth a sense of incapacity and fear. The more we speak of how they are “down and out” the more we breed this mindset. Let us speak in different terms now in this new century. Let’s really give them hope and something to believe with a re-newing of their minds. In fact, let’s stop calling them homeboys and simply refer to them as people. To say “homeboys” almost automatically entails “disability.” Let’s get over the mindset of “what we’ve been through” and get into the mode of “what I can do, and will do!” Finally, we are living in the last chapter of our sacred bible. Let’s close it and begin writing the new scrolls…for the next humanity!!