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	<title>Comments on: You, Me and the Making of Evil</title>
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		<title>By: richard locicero</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-976</link>
		<dc:creator>richard locicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 17:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-976</guid>
		<description>Even more interesting than the Zimbardo experiment was the inquiry by Stanley Milgram of Yale into what we would call criminal behavior of the type displayed by Nazi prison guards. Milgram wanted to see what would make people engage in torture and set up the following. Subjects were told that they would participate in an experiment to see how pain affected learning. Test subjects were hooked up to wires leading to a genrator wihyich would give them electric shocks. The subjects would administer shocks as a &quot;Stimulus&quot; to push the &quot;Learners&quot;. A rheostate showed various levels from 1 to 10 with everything above 7 in red and listed as &quot;Danger&quot;

(in reality there was no electric shock and the &quot;learners&quot; were acting students from the Drama School)

Milgram expected most subjects would refuse to give &quot;dangerous&quot; shocks. He was the one shocked however. With a few exception all were willing to go all the way to ten. Some cried, some got agitated, but they did it when told by the staff that the experiment would be ruined in they didn&#039;t. 

Milgram wrote a very disturbing book about this called &quot;Obedience to Authority.&quot; Read it and weep. Read it with Zimbardo and you&#039;ll give up on any notion of our innate goodness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even more interesting than the Zimbardo experiment was the inquiry by Stanley Milgram of Yale into what we would call criminal behavior of the type displayed by Nazi prison guards. Milgram wanted to see what would make people engage in torture and set up the following. Subjects were told that they would participate in an experiment to see how pain affected learning. Test subjects were hooked up to wires leading to a genrator wihyich would give them electric shocks. The subjects would administer shocks as a &#8220;Stimulus&#8221; to push the &#8220;Learners&#8221;. A rheostate showed various levels from 1 to 10 with everything above 7 in red and listed as &#8220;Danger&#8221;</p>
<p>(in reality there was no electric shock and the &#8220;learners&#8221; were acting students from the Drama School)</p>
<p>Milgram expected most subjects would refuse to give &#8220;dangerous&#8221; shocks. He was the one shocked however. With a few exception all were willing to go all the way to ten. Some cried, some got agitated, but they did it when told by the staff that the experiment would be ruined in they didn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Milgram wrote a very disturbing book about this called &#8220;Obedience to Authority.&#8221; Read it and weep. Read it with Zimbardo and you&#8217;ll give up on any notion of our innate goodness.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-967</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 00:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-967</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s have the prisoners and guards take turns being over each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s have the prisoners and guards take turns being over each other.</p>
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		<title>By: Pokey</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-962</link>
		<dc:creator>Pokey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-962</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;The Oregon Accountability Model&lt;/b&gt;

Perhaps one of the most successful and comprehensive strategies comes from Oregon. OregonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Accountability Model (OAM), a six part model of best correctional practices, takes into account all phases of a prisonerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s life as he moves through the corrections process.

ACCOUNTABILITY is a critical component of the OAM for both prisoners and Corrections staff. Offenders have their plan from the first day they enter prison thus letting them know what is expected of them. THE STAFF is held accountable as to how effective they are helping the inmate implement his plan.

FAITH-BASED programs and corrections work closely together through projects like Home for Good - a partnership aimed at providing antidotes to the anti-social associates and environments many offenders come from.

&lt;b&gt;THE PROGRAM&lt;/b&gt;
1. Criminal Risk Factor Assessment and Case Planning.  -- Every inmate received by the Department of Corrections is assessed and a plan is developed for that individual to help him through prison and guide a successful reentry back into the community.

2. Staff/Inmate Interactions.  -- This step in the process acknowledges that prison staff interaction with inmates can shape positive behavior.  Prison staffs are encouraged to offer POSITIVE FEEDBACK TO INMATES and provide INCENTIVES for good behavior.

3. Work and Programs. -- Part of the plan each prisoner receives upon prison entry includes prison programs that would best mitigate the risks that inmate may be subject to.    Most prisoners also have jobs and responsibilities in the prison. 

4. Children and Families.   --  This program seeks to work with the children of inmates in an attempt to break the cycle of family incarceration (children of the incarcerated) are SEVIN TIMES more likely to end up in prison than the rest of the population.

5. Reentry. -- Oregon has 7 facilities physically located in areas most likely to receive the inmates upon exit from prison.  This allows relatively easy access for the prisoner to partially reenter the community.  These facilities also are specifically focused on reentry and assist the inmate with housing, jobs, and other things he/she may need to make the transition into society.

6. Community Supervision and Programs.   -- The Department of Corrections works intimately with the community based programs including the faith based community, other government agencies, and nonprofits to offer technical assistance and resources in order to support their work. The goal of the Department of Corrections between steps 5 and 6 is to offer a seamless transition for offenders so that they have the best chance possible to become productive citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>The Oregon Accountability Model</b></p>
<p>Perhaps one of the most successful and comprehensive strategies comes from Oregon. OregonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Accountability Model (OAM), a six part model of best correctional practices, takes into account all phases of a prisonerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s life as he moves through the corrections process.</p>
<p>ACCOUNTABILITY is a critical component of the OAM for both prisoners and Corrections staff. Offenders have their plan from the first day they enter prison thus letting them know what is expected of them. THE STAFF is held accountable as to how effective they are helping the inmate implement his plan.</p>
<p>FAITH-BASED programs and corrections work closely together through projects like Home for Good &#8211; a partnership aimed at providing antidotes to the anti-social associates and environments many offenders come from.</p>
<p><b>THE PROGRAM</b><br />
1. Criminal Risk Factor Assessment and Case Planning.  &#8212; Every inmate received by the Department of Corrections is assessed and a plan is developed for that individual to help him through prison and guide a successful reentry back into the community.</p>
<p>2. Staff/Inmate Interactions.  &#8212; This step in the process acknowledges that prison staff interaction with inmates can shape positive behavior.  Prison staffs are encouraged to offer POSITIVE FEEDBACK TO INMATES and provide INCENTIVES for good behavior.</p>
<p>3. Work and Programs. &#8212; Part of the plan each prisoner receives upon prison entry includes prison programs that would best mitigate the risks that inmate may be subject to.    Most prisoners also have jobs and responsibilities in the prison. </p>
<p>4. Children and Families.   &#8212;  This program seeks to work with the children of inmates in an attempt to break the cycle of family incarceration (children of the incarcerated) are SEVIN TIMES more likely to end up in prison than the rest of the population.</p>
<p>5. Reentry. &#8212; Oregon has 7 facilities physically located in areas most likely to receive the inmates upon exit from prison.  This allows relatively easy access for the prisoner to partially reenter the community.  These facilities also are specifically focused on reentry and assist the inmate with housing, jobs, and other things he/she may need to make the transition into society.</p>
<p>6. Community Supervision and Programs.   &#8212; The Department of Corrections works intimately with the community based programs including the faith based community, other government agencies, and nonprofits to offer technical assistance and resources in order to support their work. The goal of the Department of Corrections between steps 5 and 6 is to offer a seamless transition for offenders so that they have the best chance possible to become productive citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: Pokey</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-961</link>
		<dc:creator>Pokey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-961</guid>
		<description>Oregon has managed to keep its Ã¢â‚¬Å“get tough policyÃ¢â‚¬Â while simultaneously offering prisoners the skills needed to re-enter society.

http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/PUBAFF/docs/oam/oam_flyer.pdf
http://www.mosac.mo.gov/Documents/alternative-sentencing.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oregon has managed to keep its Ã¢â‚¬Å“get tough policyÃ¢â‚¬Â while simultaneously offering prisoners the skills needed to re-enter society.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/PUBAFF/docs/oam/oam_flyer.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/PUBAFF/docs/oam/oam_flyer.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.mosac.mo.gov/Documents/alternative-sentencing.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mosac.mo.gov/Documents/alternative-sentencing.pdf</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pokey</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-957</link>
		<dc:creator>Pokey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-957</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;The Oregon Accountability Model&lt;/b&gt;

Perhaps one of the most successful and comprehensive strategies comes from Oregon. OregonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Accountability Model (OAM), a six part model of best correctional practices, takes into account all phases of a prisonerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s life as he moves through the corrections process.

&lt;b&gt;Accountability&lt;/b&gt; is a critical component of the OAM for both prisoners and Corrections staff. Offenders have their plan from the first day they enter prison thus letting them know what is expected of them. THE STAFF is held accountable as to how
effective they are helping the inmate implement his plan.

&lt;b&gt;Faith-based Programs&lt;/b&gt; and corrections work closely together through projects like Home for Good - a partnership aimed at providing antidotes to the anti-social associates and environments many offenders come from.

&lt;b&gt;THE PROGRAM&lt;/b&gt;
1. Criminal Risk Factor Assessment  and Case Planning.  -- Every inmate received by the Department of Corrections is assessed and a plan is developed for that individual to help him through prison and guide a successful reentry back into the community.

2. Staff/Inmate Interactions.  -- This step in the process acknowledges that prison staff interaction with inmates can shape positive behavior.  Prison staff are encouraged to offer POSITIVE FEEDBACK TO INMATES and provide INCENTIVES for good behavior.

3. Work and Programs. -- Part of the plan each prisoner receives upon prison entry includes prison programs that would best mitigate the risks that inmate may be subject to.    Most prisoners also have jobs and responsibilities in the prison. 

4. Children and Families.   --  This program seeks to work with the children of inmates in an attempt to break the cycle of family incarceration (children of the incarcerated) are SEVIN TIMES more likely to end up in prison than the rest of the population.

5. Reentry. -- Oregon has 7 facilities physically located in areas most likely to receive the inmates upon exit from prison.  This allows relatively easy access for the prisoner to partially reenter the community.  These facilities also are specifically focused on reentry and assist the inmate with housing, jobs, and other things he/she may need to make the transition into society.

6. Community Supervision and Programs.   --  The Department of Corrections works intimately with the community based programs including the faith based community, other government agencies, and nonprofits to offer technical assistance and resources in
order to support their work. The goal of the Department of Corrections between steps 5 and 6 is to offer a seamless transition for offenders so that they have the best chance possible to become productive citizens.

&lt;b&gt;Oregon has managed to keep itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Ã¢â‚¬Å“get tough policyÃ¢â‚¬Â while simultaneously offering prisoners the skills needed to re-enter society.&lt;/b&gt;


http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/PUBAFF/docs/oam/oam_flyer.pdf
http://www.mosac.mo.gov/Documents/alternative-sentencing.pdf

&lt;b&gt;CaliforniaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Recidivism -- Highest in the Nation?&lt;/b&gt;
http://ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/pdf/bulletin_2005_vol-1_is-1.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>The Oregon Accountability Model</b></p>
<p>Perhaps one of the most successful and comprehensive strategies comes from Oregon. OregonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Accountability Model (OAM), a six part model of best correctional practices, takes into account all phases of a prisonerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s life as he moves through the corrections process.</p>
<p><b>Accountability</b> is a critical component of the OAM for both prisoners and Corrections staff. Offenders have their plan from the first day they enter prison thus letting them know what is expected of them. THE STAFF is held accountable as to how<br />
effective they are helping the inmate implement his plan.</p>
<p><b>Faith-based Programs</b> and corrections work closely together through projects like Home for Good &#8211; a partnership aimed at providing antidotes to the anti-social associates and environments many offenders come from.</p>
<p><b>THE PROGRAM</b><br />
1. Criminal Risk Factor Assessment  and Case Planning.  &#8212; Every inmate received by the Department of Corrections is assessed and a plan is developed for that individual to help him through prison and guide a successful reentry back into the community.</p>
<p>2. Staff/Inmate Interactions.  &#8212; This step in the process acknowledges that prison staff interaction with inmates can shape positive behavior.  Prison staff are encouraged to offer POSITIVE FEEDBACK TO INMATES and provide INCENTIVES for good behavior.</p>
<p>3. Work and Programs. &#8212; Part of the plan each prisoner receives upon prison entry includes prison programs that would best mitigate the risks that inmate may be subject to.    Most prisoners also have jobs and responsibilities in the prison. </p>
<p>4. Children and Families.   &#8212;  This program seeks to work with the children of inmates in an attempt to break the cycle of family incarceration (children of the incarcerated) are SEVIN TIMES more likely to end up in prison than the rest of the population.</p>
<p>5. Reentry. &#8212; Oregon has 7 facilities physically located in areas most likely to receive the inmates upon exit from prison.  This allows relatively easy access for the prisoner to partially reenter the community.  These facilities also are specifically focused on reentry and assist the inmate with housing, jobs, and other things he/she may need to make the transition into society.</p>
<p>6. Community Supervision and Programs.   &#8212;  The Department of Corrections works intimately with the community based programs including the faith based community, other government agencies, and nonprofits to offer technical assistance and resources in<br />
order to support their work. The goal of the Department of Corrections between steps 5 and 6 is to offer a seamless transition for offenders so that they have the best chance possible to become productive citizens.</p>
<p><b>Oregon has managed to keep itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Ã¢â‚¬Å“get tough policyÃ¢â‚¬Â while simultaneously offering prisoners the skills needed to re-enter society.</b></p>
<p><a href="http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/PUBAFF/docs/oam/oam_flyer.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/PUBAFF/docs/oam/oam_flyer.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.mosac.mo.gov/Documents/alternative-sentencing.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mosac.mo.gov/Documents/alternative-sentencing.pdf</a></p>
<p><b>CaliforniaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Recidivism &#8212; Highest in the Nation?</b><br />
<a href="http://ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/pdf/bulletin_2005_vol-1_is-1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/pdf/bulletin_2005_vol-1_is-1.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pokey</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-954</link>
		<dc:creator>Pokey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 19:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-954</guid>
		<description>&quot;Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.&quot;

--- the complete famous quotation by Lord Acton in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887


The point about the girl-friend is she said to Zimbardo &quot;YOU HAVE CHANGED (EVIL)&quot;.  ----  This seems to me what made him realize the extent that he had turned to the dark side.

&lt;b&gt;STRUCTURAL CHANGES AND CHECKS&lt;/b&gt;
Only structural changes and checks can prevent this type of thing from happening in our prisons.

In a conversation with a prison guard, I was surprised to hear that when she transfered from LA County Jail to another prison in Oregon, she was admonished by the other staff to treat the prisoners with respect.

She was used to treating the prisoners like garbage and was very surprised.

However - Oregon will be spending &lt;b&gt;more on prisons than on Higher Education&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Oregon taxpayers now spend roughly the same money to incarcerate 13,401 inmates as they do to educate 438,000 university and community college students. But spending on prisons is growing at a faster rate than education and other state services.


The cost-benefit ratio of prison expansion has also diminished. In 1994, each additional $1 spent on incarceration yielded $3.31 in reduced crime costs, the study said. By 2005, the benefit per $1 spent was $1.03, barely above the break-even point. 

&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212; the complete famous quotation by Lord Acton in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887</p>
<p>The point about the girl-friend is she said to Zimbardo &#8220;YOU HAVE CHANGED (EVIL)&#8221;.  &#8212;-  This seems to me what made him realize the extent that he had turned to the dark side.</p>
<p><b>STRUCTURAL CHANGES AND CHECKS</b><br />
Only structural changes and checks can prevent this type of thing from happening in our prisons.</p>
<p>In a conversation with a prison guard, I was surprised to hear that when she transfered from LA County Jail to another prison in Oregon, she was admonished by the other staff to treat the prisoners with respect.</p>
<p>She was used to treating the prisoners like garbage and was very surprised.</p>
<p>However &#8211; Oregon will be spending <b>more on prisons than on Higher Education</b></p>
<blockquote><p>
Oregon taxpayers now spend roughly the same money to incarcerate 13,401 inmates as they do to educate 438,000 university and community college students. But spending on prisons is growing at a faster rate than education and other state services.</p>
<p>The cost-benefit ratio of prison expansion has also diminished. In 1994, each additional $1 spent on incarceration yielded $3.31 in reduced crime costs, the study said. By 2005, the benefit per $1 spent was $1.03, barely above the break-even point. </p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Celeste Fremon</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-952</link>
		<dc:creator>Celeste Fremon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 14:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-952</guid>
		<description>Pokey, ....um....in terms of the girlfriend (now wife), I think you&#039;ll find that&#039;s what I said above.

The point isn&#039;t whether people are flawed or not. That&#039;s hardly new news.   The issue is what, in a functional sense, to do so that  our flaws don&#039;t wreak quite as much havoc.

I think y&#039;all are missing the point of the research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pokey, &#8230;.um&#8230;.in terms of the girlfriend (now wife), I think you&#8217;ll find that&#8217;s what I said above.</p>
<p>The point isn&#8217;t whether people are flawed or not. That&#8217;s hardly new news.   The issue is what, in a functional sense, to do so that  our flaws don&#8217;t wreak quite as much havoc.</p>
<p>I think y&#8217;all are missing the point of the research.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pokey</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-951</link>
		<dc:creator>Pokey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 14:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-951</guid>
		<description>Hmmmm --- maybe we are ALL flawed human beings (think this was covered in the Bible somewhere) - read Geneses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmm &#8212; maybe we are ALL flawed human beings (think this was covered in the Bible somewhere) &#8211; read Geneses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pokey</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-950</link>
		<dc:creator>Pokey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 14:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-950</guid>
		<description>Zimbardo, who after a week of running the prison was described as EVIL by his fiancÃƒÂ©e (now wife), who by his own account was the ONLY person out of 20 psychologists and administrators who had toured the facility and witnessed the deprived treatment of the prisoners, felt it was wrong and should stop.

She is the one who convinced him to stop, not the breakdown of 4 students.

Hmmmmm, maybe Zimbardo is EVIL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zimbardo, who after a week of running the prison was described as EVIL by his fiancÃƒÂ©e (now wife), who by his own account was the ONLY person out of 20 psychologists and administrators who had toured the facility and witnessed the deprived treatment of the prisoners, felt it was wrong and should stop.</p>
<p>She is the one who convinced him to stop, not the breakdown of 4 students.</p>
<p>Hmmmmm, maybe Zimbardo is EVIL.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-946</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 13:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/gangs/2007/admin/you-me-and-the-making-of-evil/#comment-946</guid>
		<description>So, people in authority act just like humans, as do the people under them.  What a surprise.  It&#039;s hard to ask more of them than what others can do.  The problem is with human nature.  Except for the success of churches turning around lives, I don&#039;t see a lot of success by others and government programs to change the way people act naturally.  If you can solve this rather than just complain about, then you&#039;ll become very wealthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, people in authority act just like humans, as do the people under them.  What a surprise.  It&#8217;s hard to ask more of them than what others can do.  The problem is with human nature.  Except for the success of churches turning around lives, I don&#8217;t see a lot of success by others and government programs to change the way people act naturally.  If you can solve this rather than just complain about, then you&#8217;ll become very wealthy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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