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	<title>Comments on: The Fire This Time</title>
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	<description>street news, views and stories of justice and injustice</description>
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		<title>By: Listener</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5782</link>
		<dc:creator>Listener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/#comment-5782</guid>
		<description>Martha Groves&#039; article raises some interesting issues.  The competing interests between private and public land use is a gnarly one wherever it plays out. The Conservancy is quite correct to defend the public&#039;s access to public lands.  And, as the population grows, some loose sense of proportionality might dictate greater access to the public sphere ought to be afforded.  

What &lt;i&gt;access&lt;/i&gt; should amount to is, I suppose, what the argument might be about.  Private land holders do have their homes at stake.  However, it&#039;s not automatically clear to me that a private home owner&#039;s claim ought to trump the public&#039;s.  And, as Richard has argued before, living in these fragile areas is an aesthetic choice.  Looks like there are plenty of risks and responsibilities to go around for all involved.  

Only one thing is certain to me, if I had a home in that area, I&#039;d be opting for &lt;strong&gt;maximum&lt;/strong&gt; defensive measures (brush clearing, fire retardant roof, etc), leaving optimums as a &lt;i&gt;nice theory&lt;/i&gt; for someone else to study.  It&#039;s be one of those times when it&#039;d be worth it to throw the book at those things I could control.  And, I&#039;d be a really &lt;i&gt;bad neighbor&lt;/i&gt; to anyone who did much less.  Borrowing the notion of vaccine, protection for one easily translates into protection for others.  Herd immunity as it were.  Guess that&#039;s why I&#039;m happy to be a &lt;i&gt;flatlander&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martha Groves&#8217; article raises some interesting issues.  The competing interests between private and public land use is a gnarly one wherever it plays out. The Conservancy is quite correct to defend the public&#8217;s access to public lands.  And, as the population grows, some loose sense of proportionality might dictate greater access to the public sphere ought to be afforded.  </p>
<p>What <i>access</i> should amount to is, I suppose, what the argument might be about.  Private land holders do have their homes at stake.  However, it&#8217;s not automatically clear to me that a private home owner&#8217;s claim ought to trump the public&#8217;s.  And, as Richard has argued before, living in these fragile areas is an aesthetic choice.  Looks like there are plenty of risks and responsibilities to go around for all involved.  </p>
<p>Only one thing is certain to me, if I had a home in that area, I&#8217;d be opting for <strong>maximum</strong> defensive measures (brush clearing, fire retardant roof, etc), leaving optimums as a <i>nice theory</i> for someone else to study.  It&#8217;s be one of those times when it&#8217;d be worth it to throw the book at those things I could control.  And, I&#8217;d be a really <i>bad neighbor</i> to anyone who did much less.  Borrowing the notion of vaccine, protection for one easily translates into protection for others.  Herd immunity as it were.  Guess that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m happy to be a <i>flatlander</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: L.A. Resident</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5773</link>
		<dc:creator>L.A. Resident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/#comment-5773</guid>
		<description>Even with all the fire-fighters big equipment to fight the fire, the fire-fighters actually caught a lucky break because the Santa Ana winds subsided the day of the fire. If the strong winds had continued during the day, you would have seen a really, really big disaster.

I am always impressed by the local news coverage, especially with the helicopter camera video footage. You could see the houses which burned were completely surrounded by large trees and brush. While some homes that did not burn, had a fire-break around the house.

The people in Malibu need to hire an architect I saw television recently. The architect was showing a house in Lake Arrowhead he designed to be fire-proof. The house had no exposed cracks or crevices for embers to get caught under and start a burn. He also used fire-resistant building materials. The house he showed was in the middle of a bunch of homes which had burned down during the recent fire in Lake Arrowhead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even with all the fire-fighters big equipment to fight the fire, the fire-fighters actually caught a lucky break because the Santa Ana winds subsided the day of the fire. If the strong winds had continued during the day, you would have seen a really, really big disaster.</p>
<p>I am always impressed by the local news coverage, especially with the helicopter camera video footage. You could see the houses which burned were completely surrounded by large trees and brush. While some homes that did not burn, had a fire-break around the house.</p>
<p>The people in Malibu need to hire an architect I saw television recently. The architect was showing a house in Lake Arrowhead he designed to be fire-proof. The house had no exposed cracks or crevices for embers to get caught under and start a burn. He also used fire-resistant building materials. The house he showed was in the middle of a bunch of homes which had burned down during the recent fire in Lake Arrowhead.</p>
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		<title>By: Celeste Fremon</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5772</link>
		<dc:creator>Celeste Fremon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/#comment-5772</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Listener.  They&#039;re fun to do, from time to time.

RLC, yeah, the bonfire thing.  Good lord. I think it&#039;s reasonable to shoot people stupid enough to do such a thing.  (I&#039;m kidding.  Sort of.)

For about a minute on Saturday afternoon, when I was up at the command center, somebody let slip that they were looking at arson.  But then yesterday, CNN suggested that the investigators had concluded that it really was the bonfire at the end of the road. This morning&#039;s Martha Groves article seems to suggest they aren&#039;t so sure again.

http://www.latimes.com/la-me-politics26nov26,0,226205.story?coll=la-home-center



In Northwestern Montana, the Robert fire of 2003 burned nearly 60,000 acres, and was started by stupid, drunk kids in the hills with a bonfire and a keg. 

Since I live it a high fire area, I&#039;m not down with Mike D.&#039;s POV per se.  If you want to get technical, I guess you could say I live in 2 high fire areas, if one includes the family cabin in West Glacier.  But in both areas, we take just about every possible precaution---as do our neighbors.

It&#039;s the people---both developers and residents---who have the arrogance to believe that they hold the high card in any game of poker with the natural world who cause me to have extremely angry and vengeful thoughts. In addition to causing the County and state a pile of money, they endanger the rest of us who live nearby.

Unfortunately, this all calls for far stiffer building regulations.  But even that won&#039;t fix things, as there isn&#039;t the political will to make the regulations retroactive.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Listener.  They&#8217;re fun to do, from time to time.</p>
<p>RLC, yeah, the bonfire thing.  Good lord. I think it&#8217;s reasonable to shoot people stupid enough to do such a thing.  (I&#8217;m kidding.  Sort of.)</p>
<p>For about a minute on Saturday afternoon, when I was up at the command center, somebody let slip that they were looking at arson.  But then yesterday, CNN suggested that the investigators had concluded that it really was the bonfire at the end of the road. This morning&#8217;s Martha Groves article seems to suggest they aren&#8217;t so sure again.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/la-me-politics26nov26,0,226205.story?coll=la-home-center" rel="nofollow">http://www.latimes.com/la-me-politics26nov26,0,226205.story?coll=la-home-center</a></p>
<p>In Northwestern Montana, the Robert fire of 2003 burned nearly 60,000 acres, and was started by stupid, drunk kids in the hills with a bonfire and a keg. </p>
<p>Since I live it a high fire area, I&#8217;m not down with Mike D.&#8217;s POV per se.  If you want to get technical, I guess you could say I live in 2 high fire areas, if one includes the family cabin in West Glacier.  But in both areas, we take just about every possible precaution&#8212;as do our neighbors.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the people&#8212;both developers and residents&#8212;who have the arrogance to believe that they hold the high card in any game of poker with the natural world who cause me to have extremely angry and vengeful thoughts. In addition to causing the County and state a pile of money, they endanger the rest of us who live nearby.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this all calls for far stiffer building regulations.  But even that won&#8217;t fix things, as there isn&#8217;t the political will to make the regulations retroactive.</p>
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		<title>By: richard locicero</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5771</link>
		<dc:creator>richard locicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/#comment-5771</guid>
		<description>Hey! Who cares about fires in Malibu when Kevin is reporting that Samantha of &quot;Sex and the City&quot; is moving to LA in the movie. Now that&#039;s news!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey! Who cares about fires in Malibu when Kevin is reporting that Samantha of &#8220;Sex and the City&#8221; is moving to LA in the movie. Now that&#8217;s news!</p>
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		<title>By: richard locicero</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5770</link>
		<dc:creator>richard locicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/#comment-5770</guid>
		<description>When I think of the Malibu fires I remember Mike Davis&#039;s essay &quot;let it burn&quot; where he argues that the developers greed created the situation by placing construction where it never should have gone. Then I remember Jill Stewart in the old paper (before she got to trach the WEEKLY) approvingly citing RE falck &quot;Brady Westwater&quot; denouncing Davis as a marxist scaremonger. Wonder how she&#039;ll have her reporters cover the latest fires in the &quot;Weakly&quot;?

And can we say something about the stupidity of local residents (I mean the whole area - not just Malibu)? This fire apparently had a human origin. Not Arson but reports of people &quot;Camping&quot;and setting Bonfires. Bonfires? During a Santa Ana? I don&#039;t know. Some people make you wonder if the creationists are right. I mean Evolution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I think of the Malibu fires I remember Mike Davis&#8217;s essay &#8220;let it burn&#8221; where he argues that the developers greed created the situation by placing construction where it never should have gone. Then I remember Jill Stewart in the old paper (before she got to trach the WEEKLY) approvingly citing RE falck &#8220;Brady Westwater&#8221; denouncing Davis as a marxist scaremonger. Wonder how she&#8217;ll have her reporters cover the latest fires in the &#8220;Weakly&#8221;?</p>
<p>And can we say something about the stupidity of local residents (I mean the whole area &#8211; not just Malibu)? This fire apparently had a human origin. Not Arson but reports of people &#8220;Camping&#8221;and setting Bonfires. Bonfires? During a Santa Ana? I don&#8217;t know. Some people make you wonder if the creationists are right. I mean Evolution?</p>
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		<title>By: Listener</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5768</link>
		<dc:creator>Listener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/fire/2007/admin/the-fire-this-time-2/#comment-5768</guid>
		<description>Great post, Celeste.  I have a sense of the time and effort these &lt;i&gt;story boards&lt;/i&gt; of yours must take, but they are so engaging to read.  Scary times in those hills.  Imagine you all have the same keen sense of fire out there that we have for tornados here.  Sometimes you can just &lt;i&gt;feel&lt;/i&gt; them coming.  I&#039;m looking forward to your extension to the CDCF firefighters.  How long does your fire season last?  Or, perhaps, what is the most dangerous window of time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Celeste.  I have a sense of the time and effort these <i>story boards</i> of yours must take, but they are so engaging to read.  Scary times in those hills.  Imagine you all have the same keen sense of fire out there that we have for tornados here.  Sometimes you can just <i>feel</i> them coming.  I&#8217;m looking forward to your extension to the CDCF firefighters.  How long does your fire season last?  Or, perhaps, what is the most dangerous window of time?</p>
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