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	<title>Comments on: Slashing &amp; Burning Education:  WWFDRD?</title>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9783</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9783</guid>
		<description>An economist on one of today&#039;s morning shows explained the education budget deficit is the result of the down housing market in California and the reduction in tax revenues from that.  He said that it would take about $120 per person to make up that difference.  Choices must be made, and one of your choices isn&#039;t ending the Iraq mission and taking that money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An economist on one of today&#8217;s morning shows explained the education budget deficit is the result of the down housing market in California and the reduction in tax revenues from that.  He said that it would take about $120 per person to make up that difference.  Choices must be made, and one of your choices isn&#8217;t ending the Iraq mission and taking that money.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9756</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9756</guid>
		<description>BTW, from the article that I linked and WBC dissected comes this paragraph:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Given all these hurdles, it would be virtually impossible for the average voter, who lacks the time to gather the required financial data and the accounting training to interpret them, to fulfill his or her theoretical role of holding the public schools accountable. A financial manager with Los Angeles Unified admitted that he had been &quot;counseled&quot; to use financial euphemisms when speaking about accounting matters so as to conceal or downplay what is actually going on in the district. With a public totally uninformed about the real state of public school finances, real accountability is illusory.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

LAUSD must be the ENRON of education, as they screw the taxpayers, who are its investors, with deceptive accounting disclosures and demands for more money.  I would have no desire to invest in a company or an education system that consistently lies about its financial information.  Fix that first, then we can talk about more money--or less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, from the article that I linked and WBC dissected comes this paragraph:</p>
<blockquote><p>Given all these hurdles, it would be virtually impossible for the average voter, who lacks the time to gather the required financial data and the accounting training to interpret them, to fulfill his or her theoretical role of holding the public schools accountable. A financial manager with Los Angeles Unified admitted that he had been &#8220;counseled&#8221; to use financial euphemisms when speaking about accounting matters so as to conceal or downplay what is actually going on in the district. With a public totally uninformed about the real state of public school finances, real accountability is illusory.</p></blockquote>
<p>LAUSD must be the ENRON of education, as they screw the taxpayers, who are its investors, with deceptive accounting disclosures and demands for more money.  I would have no desire to invest in a company or an education system that consistently lies about its financial information.  Fix that first, then we can talk about more money&#8211;or less.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9753</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9753</guid>
		<description>rlc, want better teachers?  Grade them and pay according to results rather than give good and bad ones the same salaries.  It appears that I might agree with the concept of the site that Randy linked.  More money won&#039;t fix a system that is broken and protected by the unions.  

If schools were Iraq, we would have given up a long time ago--so, you might as well take money from education and give it to our military.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rlc, want better teachers?  Grade them and pay according to results rather than give good and bad ones the same salaries.  It appears that I might agree with the concept of the site that Randy linked.  More money won&#8217;t fix a system that is broken and protected by the unions.  </p>
<p>If schools were Iraq, we would have given up a long time ago&#8211;so, you might as well take money from education and give it to our military.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Paul</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9750</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9750</guid>
		<description>Screwed up the link it&#039;s for this school:

http://www.tepcharter.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Screwed up the link it&#8217;s for this school:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.tepcharter.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tepcharter.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Randy Paul</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9749</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9749</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If those are RNC talking points, then they get them from me, as I never read theirs.&lt;/i&gt;

You don&#039;t read them, you parrot them.

As for throwing money at schools, maybe we should see how &lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tepcharter.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;this school does in terms of its teacher salaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If those are RNC talking points, then they get them from me, as I never read theirs.</i></p>
<p>You don&#8217;t read them, you parrot them.</p>
<p>As for throwing money at schools, maybe we should see how <b><a href="http://www.tepcharter.org/" rel="nofollow"></a></b>this school does in terms of its teacher salaries.</p>
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		<title>By: WBC</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9746</link>
		<dc:creator>WBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9746</guid>
		<description>There is a pattern:  indoctrinated thinking over reality.  &quot;You guys&quot; don&#039;t and can&#039;t listen and just ignore statistics and facts, being so indoctrinated that you discount anything that doesn&#039;t support your preconceived views.  So the problems become ever worse by your own doing, and you blame those who&#039;ve been overtaxed for less and less, compared to other cities and states, and had enough, leaving you with even less of a tax base to bash.  Talk about circular &quot;logic.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a pattern:  indoctrinated thinking over reality.  &#8220;You guys&#8221; don&#8217;t and can&#8217;t listen and just ignore statistics and facts, being so indoctrinated that you discount anything that doesn&#8217;t support your preconceived views.  So the problems become ever worse by your own doing, and you blame those who&#8217;ve been overtaxed for less and less, compared to other cities and states, and had enough, leaving you with even less of a tax base to bash.  Talk about circular &#8220;logic.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: richard locicero</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9745</link>
		<dc:creator>richard locicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9745</guid>
		<description>As I said, &quot;Magical Thinking.&quot; Only brain-dead conservatives could believe that resources (thats &quot;Money&quot; to you guys) has no impact on results. Want better teachers? PAY THEM!!!! Think you can teach kids computer skills on Apple IIs? Tech subjects on Vac Tube Eqt? Funny, but all that stuff costs money. There is no magic school fairy that will fix things.

Oh, and for your information there is no magic Road Fairy for fixing gridlock. No magic cop fairy for crime prevention. No magic Health fairy for public health .  .  .

(See a pattern?) No, sadly you probably don&#039;t!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said, &#8220;Magical Thinking.&#8221; Only brain-dead conservatives could believe that resources (thats &#8220;Money&#8221; to you guys) has no impact on results. Want better teachers? PAY THEM!!!! Think you can teach kids computer skills on Apple IIs? Tech subjects on Vac Tube Eqt? Funny, but all that stuff costs money. There is no magic school fairy that will fix things.</p>
<p>Oh, and for your information there is no magic Road Fairy for fixing gridlock. No magic cop fairy for crime prevention. No magic Health fairy for public health .  .  .</p>
<p>(See a pattern?) No, sadly you probably don&#8217;t!</p>
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		<title>By: WBC</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9742</link>
		<dc:creator>WBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9742</guid>
		<description>Interesting link, Woody.  For the year given, 2000, L A and San Francisco both spent above the state average per student, at just under and just over $10,000/per pupil, respectively, while San Diego spent significantly less, around the state average (under $8000).  Yet, in S. F. and S. D., students at all grade levels tested on the SAT-9s (from 2nd to 11th) had an avg. of about half scoring at least 50% or above.  In L. A., only about 25% did on avg., as low as 19% for 9th graders.  (Even a 50% rate is pretty dismal, considering the benchmark is a score of 50% or above.  L A&#039;s test scores suggest widespread illiteracy.)

Clearly, the liberal notion that throwing more money at the problem and raising taxes on homeowners (less than 38% in L A County even own homes now, we have such an unusually high % of renters) will &quot;fix&quot; everything is bogus.  What are the real differences between the cities?  Percentage of illegals and people in poverty to whites and the middle class, maybe?  

Look at the demographics and communities of San Diego and S. F. by comparison -- these are borne out by recent data released the the State for L A.  Any wonder that looking around at other cities, seeing what homeowners get there for their tax dollars, more are moving out than moving into L A.  Per SCAG (Southern Calif. Assoc. of Governments) there&#039;s an annual net exodus of several hundred thousand people, from blue collar to &quot;affluent&quot; while the only net immigration and population growth is from Mexico and Central America, and their high birthrates.  

One reason being, the lack of local schools for these people, with even schools in the heart of affluent Westwood like Emerson Middle and University High consisting mostly of kids bused in, and the attendant problems with gangs, low academic achievement, etc.  They&#039;ve got gang counselors, uniforms to discourage gang affiliation and all the hallmarks of inner city schools -- people who&#039;ve sent their kids there report intimidation of white kids unless they adopt the prevalent culture, so naturally there are fewer and fewer local kids.  You gonna keep taxing these people?  Even as home values declined?  Same is true of blue collar people who can&#039;t even afford Catholic schools, and have to move.  This is a tragedy for L A, which needs people living closer to their jobs, and who otherwise would love to stay in this dynamic, culturally sophisticated city.

Sure, the libs and UTLA and LAUSD Board want to just raise taxes on the homeowners again, and there&#039;s talk of wanting to repeal Prop 13 -- if they get away with it, watch the increased exodus and further crash of the real estate market.  And who will they try to hit on then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting link, Woody.  For the year given, 2000, L A and San Francisco both spent above the state average per student, at just under and just over $10,000/per pupil, respectively, while San Diego spent significantly less, around the state average (under $8000).  Yet, in S. F. and S. D., students at all grade levels tested on the SAT-9s (from 2nd to 11th) had an avg. of about half scoring at least 50% or above.  In L. A., only about 25% did on avg., as low as 19% for 9th graders.  (Even a 50% rate is pretty dismal, considering the benchmark is a score of 50% or above.  L A&#8217;s test scores suggest widespread illiteracy.)</p>
<p>Clearly, the liberal notion that throwing more money at the problem and raising taxes on homeowners (less than 38% in L A County even own homes now, we have such an unusually high % of renters) will &#8220;fix&#8221; everything is bogus.  What are the real differences between the cities?  Percentage of illegals and people in poverty to whites and the middle class, maybe?  </p>
<p>Look at the demographics and communities of San Diego and S. F. by comparison &#8212; these are borne out by recent data released the the State for L A.  Any wonder that looking around at other cities, seeing what homeowners get there for their tax dollars, more are moving out than moving into L A.  Per SCAG (Southern Calif. Assoc. of Governments) there&#8217;s an annual net exodus of several hundred thousand people, from blue collar to &#8220;affluent&#8221; while the only net immigration and population growth is from Mexico and Central America, and their high birthrates.  </p>
<p>One reason being, the lack of local schools for these people, with even schools in the heart of affluent Westwood like Emerson Middle and University High consisting mostly of kids bused in, and the attendant problems with gangs, low academic achievement, etc.  They&#8217;ve got gang counselors, uniforms to discourage gang affiliation and all the hallmarks of inner city schools &#8212; people who&#8217;ve sent their kids there report intimidation of white kids unless they adopt the prevalent culture, so naturally there are fewer and fewer local kids.  You gonna keep taxing these people?  Even as home values declined?  Same is true of blue collar people who can&#8217;t even afford Catholic schools, and have to move.  This is a tragedy for L A, which needs people living closer to their jobs, and who otherwise would love to stay in this dynamic, culturally sophisticated city.</p>
<p>Sure, the libs and UTLA and LAUSD Board want to just raise taxes on the homeowners again, and there&#8217;s talk of wanting to repeal Prop 13 &#8212; if they get away with it, watch the increased exodus and further crash of the real estate market.  And who will they try to hit on then?</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9739</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9739</guid>
		<description>Celeste, did you research how California computes its &quot;per pupil spending&quot; and how that &lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://special.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/educat/per_pupil_spending/index.html#Conclusion&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;formula is misleading&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; and how it changed when education lobbyists wanted to skew the statistics to get more money and how it is dishonestely understated?  There are numerous links with proof, but I&#039;m not taking a chance of including them with your filter that blocks comments with more than one.  

I never accept statistics from liberals because I inevitably find that they are lying with them--not you, you just fall for them.

But, if you want more money for schools, it sounds like its time for a huge property tax and sales tax increase in California.  Enjoy!  The rest of the nation appreciates getting the businesses that move out of your state because of the high taxes.

This post is a complete waste--except for whiny liberals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Celeste, did you research how California computes its &#8220;per pupil spending&#8221; and how that <b><a href="http://special.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/educat/per_pupil_spending/index.html#Conclusion" rel="nofollow">formula is misleading</a></b> and how it changed when education lobbyists wanted to skew the statistics to get more money and how it is dishonestely understated?  There are numerous links with proof, but I&#8217;m not taking a chance of including them with your filter that blocks comments with more than one.  </p>
<p>I never accept statistics from liberals because I inevitably find that they are lying with them&#8211;not you, you just fall for them.</p>
<p>But, if you want more money for schools, it sounds like its time for a huge property tax and sales tax increase in California.  Enjoy!  The rest of the nation appreciates getting the businesses that move out of your state because of the high taxes.</p>
<p>This post is a complete waste&#8211;except for whiny liberals.</p>
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		<title>By: Celeste Fremon</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/comment-page-1/#comment-9737</link>
		<dc:creator>Celeste Fremon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/education/2008/admin/slashing-burning-education-wwfdrd/#comment-9737</guid>
		<description>FYI: According to the state&#039;s legislative analyst&#039;s office, California is 25th in the US in terms of per pupil spending, and in terms of dollar amount spends just under the national average. If Schwarzenegger&#039;s threatened education cuts go through, that figure will drop by nearly $800 per student per year.

By the way, I don&#039;t believe that Arnold wants to make these cuts.  I honestly think he gets it. At heart, I think he&#039;d like to be an education advocate. Unfortunately, I don&#039;t believe he&#039;s a strong enough deal broker to be able to wrestle the Repubs in the state leg (and the Dems, they&#039;re not blameless) into doing what needs to be done, which includes raising some taxes, making prison budget cuts and releasing those 22,000 low-level, non-violent offenders a few months early. (The horror!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI: According to the state&#8217;s legislative analyst&#8217;s office, California is 25th in the US in terms of per pupil spending, and in terms of dollar amount spends just under the national average. If Schwarzenegger&#8217;s threatened education cuts go through, that figure will drop by nearly $800 per student per year.</p>
<p>By the way, I don&#8217;t believe that Arnold wants to make these cuts.  I honestly think he gets it. At heart, I think he&#8217;d like to be an education advocate. Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t believe he&#8217;s a strong enough deal broker to be able to wrestle the Repubs in the state leg (and the Dems, they&#8217;re not blameless) into doing what needs to be done, which includes raising some taxes, making prison budget cuts and releasing those 22,000 low-level, non-violent offenders a few months early. (The horror!)</p>
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