Putting away bad guys is no game to me, never has been from day one, and neither is the lack of responsibility the left takes for doing their best to keep the streets less safe for me and mine. I take that real seriously and will fight the efforts of anyone who attempts to do it.

Your last paragraph in your response was posted for what reason but to tell people so many are unjustly locked away for long periods of time. The Gang Terrorism Act was adopted because there was a need for it and I don’t know anyone I ever worked with that thought differently. Really Celeste what exactly are you trying to convey to people except that you’re a gang apologist when you end with this…

“My, times have certainly changed. These days if a juvenile has the bad judgment to get in a car with someone else who is up to no good and fires a gun at a third person and misses, but a gang allegation can be proved, the non-shooter kid—even if he has no priors—can do 25 to life. In one case that I know, 35 to life”.

So the shooter missed, why would that even matter, does that make it OK with you or lesser or the crime lesser in it’s severity? Did you address the points I made about the stats and does saving future crime victims, which 3 Strikes definitely has done even matter to you or people who think like you? Seems to me with your response your lamenting the fact some gangster, who happened to be behind the wheel that night, got put away because he got caught and the shooter missed his target. One less dead body in L.A. and you’re upset?

That to me is an incredibly weak response to an attempt murder by an obvious gang member who knew the risk associated with what he was doing. How many stories have to unfold where innocent bystanders are killed or gangsters kill…ooops, someone who wasn’t actually a gang member before you guys get it?

You seem to grieve people who act in a criminal manner and get long sentences because the system is a little too harsh for you, even when the stats show that treatment is saving lives. I will never understand that thinking. Be upset about the guy who got railroaded for killing his mom, not this gangster.

I always shake my head at how anyone could defend these thugs. Your response was typical for liberals, it’s all about feelings with you guys and the stats that show you’re wrong never really matter except as a passing thought.

I responded to what you posted, which I though made important points, and attempted to have a constructive conversation with you about Three Strikes, which I assumed we could do, even though we come at the issue from different directions.

My bad.

Instead of responding in kind, you fastened on to one thing I said in passing about the huge changes in sentencing policy, mostly having to do with the fact that Matthews did so little time for murder.

But you ignored the actual conversation we could have had and instead, yanked my passing point out of context, and then waved it around over your head like some sort of trophy that proves how Right—capital R—you are, and how hopelessly Naive and Wrong, (capital N, capital W) I am.

Not a game I’m terribly interested in, sorry.

Carry on.

These are constantly the types of tales that liberals point to that shows the system’s so unfair. I pulled over a gang ride after a drive by in the mid-90’s (one dead one wounded..a child) one night rolling 5 deep. The driver was the father of the shooter and he had to crawl out of the car because many years earlier he was shot and couldn’t walk any more. Great example for his kid huh? There was a plea and not sure what he got but we can all tell stories and I have plenty more that sound like this with fathers, uncles, aunts, moms and grandparents pushing this life on their kids.

Here’s some stats from just two years, first 3 Strikes year to last I had stats for, but since most of you people won’t look them up because crime stats since 3 Strikes to some of you is like Kryptonite to Superman you’ll keep putting out the nonsense you do. I doubt many will look at the site I linked you to because the truth isn’t all that pretty to those who use “stories” about people they might know or heard about to make a point. Look at the years prior to 3 Strikes until now and please, then try presenting a case that shows it isn’t working.

Three strikes stats. All the stats that show reductions and cost savings by putting the very worst behind bars for longer periods of time can be seen on the site.

1994
Ca pop 31,524,000
Pris pop 125,605
Violent crime 318.946
Prop crime 692,717

2007
Ca pop 37.713,000
Pris pop 171,444
Violent crime 191,493
Prop crime 457,885

Don Q: So whats the solution? More draconian and punitive laws that lock up more of the poor ass black and Latino and white underclass?

Only the criminal ones, and they deserve it. More posturing like Don’s does what to make the community safe? Maybe Don could figure out how many “of the poor ass black and Latino and white underclass” have been saved by putting the criminal element in their neighborhoods away for a long time.

Or doesn’t that matter to you Don?

My, times have certainly changed. These days if a juvenile has the bad judgment to get in a car with someone else who is up to no good and fires a gun at a third person and misses, but a gang allegation can be proved, the non-shooter kid—even if he has no priors—can do 25 to life. In one case that I know, 35 to life.

I’m not sure if anyone’s still reading this thread, but I saw your comment and thought it brought up some good points. I was in favor of Prop. 66 as I think Three Strikes, as written, is too broad. But your example of this horrible Mr. Matthews was a compelling one. So I went back and reread the proposed statute, and I think you’re right. It has some holes that are problematic.

Matthews was a 3rd striker in ‘86, because of the juvenile convictions—but of course there was no 3 Strikes in 1986, so he continued to walk around. And the last crime would have failed to put him away under Prop 66, according to my reading of it too.

One solution would be to have a catch all category that would cover people like him who have already committed three serious and violent crimes, that would have struck them out if we could do it retroactively. So if they commit a 4th felony, that trips the “L” lever.

Also, I note that threatening a witness would have gotten him that third strike, but threatening a judge (twice) would not have, which seems like another vexing hole in Prop 66.

Anyway,…. interesting. I still want to see Three Strikes amended, but you have pointed out that Prop 66 wasn’t quite well calibrated enough.

We are, indeed very, very glad that Mr. Matthews is doing 25 to life and not walking the streets with his “Fag Finder Reminder”—or whatever.

(This does not discount my belief in poetry, but he can write his from a safe and very restricted distance, thank you very much.)

I’m sure many here were in favor of Prop. 66 that Thank God was defeated. Here’s just one guy that would have been out if it had passed. There are other examples on the site and you should take a look yourself.

I’ll post stats in a short time regarding crime rates.

Name: Steven “Cutthroat” Matthews
Criminal history: A member of the Aryan Brotherhood, served time for robbery and kidnapping as a juvenile in the 1960s. Arrested for murder in the late 1970s, acquitted. Two weeks later, arrested for killing a person in a bar.

Convicted of murder in 1978, along with three counts
of attempted murder. Paroled in 1986. Within days, raped his mother, forced her to perform oral sex and threatened to kill her. Convicted and sentenced to 17 years in prison, where he wrote the judge, threatening to “track him down.” Paroled again in 1996. Parole revoked 24 hours later for failing a drug test and again threatening the judge.

Arrested in 2003 for being a felon in possession of two deadly weapons — a two-foot machete and a rock hammer with “Fag Finder Reminder” etched on the head. Now serving 25 years to life.

Proposition 66 release date: Under Proposition 66, Mr. Matthews’ sentence would be reduced to a maximum of three years. Because of time served and “good time” credits, he would be eligible for release in early 2005.

Reg, you started with the obscene name calling in other posts, that’s a sign the battle is done and you have nothing and are nothing. Can’t handle the responses leave the kitchen.

Not so fast, Mavis. SureFire still has some major ammo left on his side of this argument. He can call you a drug addict, surmise that you’re in a geriatric’s ward and suggest…oh, I don’t know…maybe that somebody pull your feeding tube. You really underestimate the depth of his analytical and rhetorical powers in these disputes…

And speaking of statistics” eh” mentions (but does not provide) some incomplete and misleading stats, no doubt meant to scare the be Jesus out of the white folks. But if looked at carefully and considered they do tell a story.

1. Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Trends …
Jul 11, 2007 … Charts and tables about homicide trends by race in the United States.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm –

The story they tell IMO, is that even though blacks are represented disproportionately as homicide offenders they are also represented disproportionately as homicide victims.
The circumstances of the homicides are also interesting, a disproportionate number related to drugs and gang violence. Hmmm, could it be that blacks kill other black people more often because of the environment (the ghetto), that they exist in and that drugs and gangs and violence are more likely to occur in this atmosphere?
So back to the old cause and effect and poverty breeds’ violence and why do these violent poverty stricken areas exist in a country as wealthy as ours?
Could it possibly be due to the effects of hundreds of years of racism?