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	<title>Comments on: Fatherless Citizens</title>
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		<title>By: Immigration Frustrations at EcoPunk.info</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-2030</link>
		<dc:creator>Immigration Frustrations at EcoPunk.info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 06:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] as Celeste Fremon at Witness L.A. observes, the immigration law passed 10 years ago, supposedly intended to force officials to deport [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as Celeste Fremon at Witness L.A. observes, the immigration law passed 10 years ago, supposedly intended to force officials to deport [...]</p>
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		<title>By: frcuxqpzuc</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-1930</link>
		<dc:creator>frcuxqpzuc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hello! Good Site! Thanks you! ngmhwvozwzxz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello! Good Site! Thanks you! ngmhwvozwzxz</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 22:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/#comment-475</guid>
		<description>rlc, that&#039;s a real stretch.  It&#039;s one thing to base our early system of laws of 300 ytears ago from our country of origin, and it&#039;s quite another thing to base our laws of today on new legislation from foreign lands.  Also, treaties and civil laws governing international commerce are mutually agreed upon by the countries, including our elected representatives.  We don&#039;t make treaties to waive punishments for domestic criminal acts of &lt;i&gt;individuals&lt;/i&gt; who are here illegally.  Criminal law of foreign lands should not govern our domestic application.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rlc, that&#8217;s a real stretch.  It&#8217;s one thing to base our early system of laws of 300 ytears ago from our country of origin, and it&#8217;s quite another thing to base our laws of today on new legislation from foreign lands.  Also, treaties and civil laws governing international commerce are mutually agreed upon by the countries, including our elected representatives.  We don&#8217;t make treaties to waive punishments for domestic criminal acts of <i>individuals</i> who are here illegally.  Criminal law of foreign lands should not govern our domestic application.</p>
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		<title>By: richard locicero</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>richard locicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 20:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Woody I&#039;ll forgive your ignorance of the Constitution as they probably don&#039;t teach much law other than UCC - if that - in Accounting School but here goes. Treaties are also ratified by the Senate and they are the Law of the the Land. We have BINDING Commercial treaties with the EU (see the WTO for example) so EU law is used all the time. Besides, wheteher you like it or not US Multinational Corportations have to get the approval of the EU Commissioners fro Competition before they engage in activities like mergers an aquisitions.And let us not get started on matters like Intellectual Property.

But all that is irrelevant anyway. From the earliest days of our Federal Judiciary principals of the English Common Law have be cited as precedents in deciding cases and controversies, as they like to say. 

So Sorry Woody, the &quot;Foreign Law&quot; horse left the barn a long time ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woody I&#8217;ll forgive your ignorance of the Constitution as they probably don&#8217;t teach much law other than UCC &#8211; if that &#8211; in Accounting School but here goes. Treaties are also ratified by the Senate and they are the Law of the the Land. We have BINDING Commercial treaties with the EU (see the WTO for example) so EU law is used all the time. Besides, wheteher you like it or not US Multinational Corportations have to get the approval of the EU Commissioners fro Competition before they engage in activities like mergers an aquisitions.And let us not get started on matters like Intellectual Property.</p>
<p>But all that is irrelevant anyway. From the earliest days of our Federal Judiciary principals of the English Common Law have be cited as precedents in deciding cases and controversies, as they like to say. </p>
<p>So Sorry Woody, the &#8220;Foreign Law&#8221; horse left the barn a long time ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Celeste Fremon</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Celeste Fremon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Pokey, could you possibly arm yourself (with guns AND money), go to DC, turn lobbiest and push  Pokey&#039;s Law through with our guts-challenged congress?  Okay, clause number 5 is a bit of a problem, but we can work on that in committee.  Otherwise, we&#039;re good to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pokey, could you possibly arm yourself (with guns AND money), go to DC, turn lobbiest and push  Pokey&#8217;s Law through with our guts-challenged congress?  Okay, clause number 5 is a bit of a problem, but we can work on that in committee.  Otherwise, we&#8217;re good to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/#comment-465</guid>
		<description>rlc, the Supreme Court Justices were duly nominated and ratified by our government representatives whom we elected--according to our Constitution.  Whom did we elect to put EU laws over us?  Go ahead and follow Gore, just like those Mexicans followed the loser nutcase who formed a parallel government--minus an army, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rlc, the Supreme Court Justices were duly nominated and ratified by our government representatives whom we elected&#8211;according to our Constitution.  Whom did we elect to put EU laws over us?  Go ahead and follow Gore, just like those Mexicans followed the loser nutcase who formed a parallel government&#8211;minus an army, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Pokey</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Pokey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 01:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Immigration Law according to POKEY&lt;/b&gt;

1) - Deporting legal immigrants retroactively for past problems is obscene (I thought this was against constitution) Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Ã¢â‚¬Å“No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.Ã¢â‚¬Â.     Did our law makers not read it?

2) - We should define Ã¢â‚¬Å“aggravated felonyÃ¢â‚¬Â, as a sane/normal person would (as opposed to idiot judges), which does not include stealing a video game. 

3) - Legal immigrants who have been here 10 or more years are not be subject to deportation.    

4) Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Illegal immigrants over 12 years old who have spent MORE THAN HALF THEIR LIVES in the USA are not be deportable. 

5) Ã¢â‚¬â€œ All other illegal immigrants should be deported.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Immigration Law according to POKEY</b></p>
<p>1) &#8211; Deporting legal immigrants retroactively for past problems is obscene (I thought this was against constitution) Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Ã¢â‚¬Å“No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.Ã¢â‚¬Â.     Did our law makers not read it?</p>
<p>2) &#8211; We should define Ã¢â‚¬Å“aggravated felonyÃ¢â‚¬Â, as a sane/normal person would (as opposed to idiot judges), which does not include stealing a video game. </p>
<p>3) &#8211; Legal immigrants who have been here 10 or more years are not be subject to deportation.    </p>
<p>4) Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Illegal immigrants over 12 years old who have spent MORE THAN HALF THEIR LIVES in the USA are not be deportable. </p>
<p>5) Ã¢â‚¬â€œ All other illegal immigrants should be deported.</p>
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		<title>By: richard locicero</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>richard locicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 20:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/#comment-450</guid>
		<description>Woody I didn&#039;t vote the Supremes so that means I can ignore Scalia and consider Gore to be the Prez?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woody I didn&#8217;t vote the Supremes so that means I can ignore Scalia and consider Gore to be the Prez?</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 19:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/#comment-448</guid>
		<description>Kathleen, we should not consider laws from other nations in legal interpretations because we didn&#039;t vote for the people who made them.  Let&#039;s stick with our own laws, and if our legislators want to consider outside sources, then at least it would be our guys, whom we elected, doing that.

BTW, the U.S. has done more for human rights than any other country in the world.  We&#039;re the one who step up to the plate against dictators, we&#039;re the one who provides food and medical care for needy people across the globe, and we&#039;ve provided a haven of escape for people to come here and better their lives.  

Forget everything that your professors told you and listen to me.  If you don&#039;t do it now, then one day, many years in the future, you will say to yourself, &quot;That guy on Fremon&#039;s blog was right.  I should have listened to him.  Look at all the wasted years.&quot;  I do this as a public service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathleen, we should not consider laws from other nations in legal interpretations because we didn&#8217;t vote for the people who made them.  Let&#8217;s stick with our own laws, and if our legislators want to consider outside sources, then at least it would be our guys, whom we elected, doing that.</p>
<p>BTW, the U.S. has done more for human rights than any other country in the world.  We&#8217;re the one who step up to the plate against dictators, we&#8217;re the one who provides food and medical care for needy people across the globe, and we&#8217;ve provided a haven of escape for people to come here and better their lives.  </p>
<p>Forget everything that your professors told you and listen to me.  If you don&#8217;t do it now, then one day, many years in the future, you will say to yourself, &#8220;That guy on Fremon&#8217;s blog was right.  I should have listened to him.  Look at all the wasted years.&#8221;  I do this as a public service.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/comment-page-1/#comment-445</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://witnessla.com/crime-and-punishment/2007/admin/family-relief/#comment-445</guid>
		<description>I mention international law because it speaks to the issue of human rights, an area in which I think America has an abysmal legacy.  Our leaders like to pay lip service to human rights when it suits their agenda and just as easily condone, support, ignore, and perpetrate abuses when they so choose. Unfortunately, and shamefully, the US is not a signatory to several of the treaties which affect the issue of deportation. We have, however, ratified the Vienna Convention, the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination, and the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, among others.  While these certainly don&#039;t form a part of domestic law, they are binding on the US and should be respected. Furthermore, our Constitution does allow for deference to the &quot;Laws of Nations&quot;, as it was known in the eighteenth century, in matters of individual rights and liberties. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are also not intended to protect only US citizens, but anyone within our borders.  

When it comes to the issue of deportation in particular, international law is relevant because every deportation requires the action of 2 states: the US and the receiving nation which has to issue travel documents. Those nations who have ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child, for instance, are in clear violation of that treaty when their acceptance of a deportee impacts a child.  In some cases, the receiving countries are acting in contradiction to their own internal laws.  They do so because of intimidation and various threats (loss of aid and visas for example) made by the US.

I see no reason why, especially in this age of globalization, we should not consider international standards of law.  There are any number of logical precedents for it, not only by &quot;liberal&quot; judges.  Particularly when human rights are at stake, I feel we have an obligation to do so. Keeping families intact is central to preserving and bettering society as a whole, here and abroad. Americans like to think of ourselves as the upholders of freedom and democracy and human rights, but we are turning into a nation of hypocrites. It&#039;s time our actions were in line with our pronouncements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mention international law because it speaks to the issue of human rights, an area in which I think America has an abysmal legacy.  Our leaders like to pay lip service to human rights when it suits their agenda and just as easily condone, support, ignore, and perpetrate abuses when they so choose. Unfortunately, and shamefully, the US is not a signatory to several of the treaties which affect the issue of deportation. We have, however, ratified the Vienna Convention, the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination, and the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, among others.  While these certainly don&#8217;t form a part of domestic law, they are binding on the US and should be respected. Furthermore, our Constitution does allow for deference to the &#8220;Laws of Nations&#8221;, as it was known in the eighteenth century, in matters of individual rights and liberties. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are also not intended to protect only US citizens, but anyone within our borders.  </p>
<p>When it comes to the issue of deportation in particular, international law is relevant because every deportation requires the action of 2 states: the US and the receiving nation which has to issue travel documents. Those nations who have ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child, for instance, are in clear violation of that treaty when their acceptance of a deportee impacts a child.  In some cases, the receiving countries are acting in contradiction to their own internal laws.  They do so because of intimidation and various threats (loss of aid and visas for example) made by the US.</p>
<p>I see no reason why, especially in this age of globalization, we should not consider international standards of law.  There are any number of logical precedents for it, not only by &#8220;liberal&#8221; judges.  Particularly when human rights are at stake, I feel we have an obligation to do so. Keeping families intact is central to preserving and bettering society as a whole, here and abroad. Americans like to think of ourselves as the upholders of freedom and democracy and human rights, but we are turning into a nation of hypocrites. It&#8217;s time our actions were in line with our pronouncements.</p>
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