Community Health & Safety Guns

NOT AGAIN: An Ordinary School Morning in Santa Fe, TX, Is Shattered by Deadly Gunfire

Celeste Fremon
Written by Celeste Fremon

On Friday night, May 18, Santa Fe High School’s varsity baseball team was scheduled to play in the regional quarterfinals. The school’s sports teams have an enthusiastic fan base in the town of Santa Fe, which is located in Galveston County, Texas, less than 45 miles south of Houston, so a lot of people were reportedly going to the game.

On Sunday afternoon, May 20, members of Santa Fe’s class of 2018 were to gather in the school’s auditorium, at 5 p.m, wearing their caps and gowns, for their baccalaureate ceremony, which is a one-hour religious service honoring the newest graduating class.

The prom was already held May 12, the Saturday before.

Final exams were to begin next week. Formal graduation is set for June 1. Or at least it was.

This wonderfully ordinary schedule, however, was upended early on Friday morning when Santa Fe High School became the site of one more deadly school shooting.


What happened

A little after 7:30 a.m., at the beginning of the school day at Santa Fe High, a young man wearing a dark trench coat entered a school classroom during an art class. He carried with him two guns—-a shotgun and a .38 caliber revolver. Seconds after entering the classroom, he began shooting, and students began running.

Some of them made it out safely. Others didn’t. A few barricaded themselves in the art class room’s supply closet, but the shooter fired through the door. Several of the school’s police officers tried to stop the gunman.

One of those courageous cops was gravely wounded.

Amid the chaos, someone pulled a fire alarm.


Texas Governor Greg Abbot at Friday afternoon press conference after Santa Fe H.S. shooting

Ten killed

According to Texas Governor Greg Abbot, ten people were killed in the Friday’s carnage, with 13 more injured. The dead are two teachers, Glenda Perkins and Cynthia Tisdale, and eight students, Kimberly Vaughan, Shana Fisher, Angelique Ramirez, Christian Riley Garcia, Jared Black, Christopher Jake Stone, Aaron Kyle McLeod, and Sabika Sheikh, a foreign-exchange student from Pakistan.

(The LA Times has affecting profiles of each of those who were killed.)

Cynthia Tisdale was a well-liked substitute who came back to work after her husband was diagnosed with cancer, and she needed the work.

Among those wounded was a school police officer named John Barnes, who had retired from a career with the Houston PD, reportedly feeling it was time for a less stressful job. Barnes, who after confronting the shooter, was shot in both arms, was was in critical condition due to blood loss when he reached University of Texas Medical Branch, where physicians were reportedly able to stabilize him.

A second school police officer managed to get to Barnes and pull him to safety,

Another of the ten who were wounded was Rome Shubert, the pitcher for the school’s baseball team, who has committed to playing baseball at the University of Houston. Shubert was shot in the back of the head at his neck, but the wound was not serious.

Shubert had on his “game day” t-shirt, which now is covered with blood.

Police have praised the actions of the law enforcement officers who each in various ways engaged the shooter.

Santa Fe, TX, student being interviewed after shooting

In a video that went viral after the shooting, a reporter from Houston’s ABC affiliate interviewed one student from Santa Fe High School, a seventeen-year-old girl named Paige Curry, who had been in a classroom three doors down from where the killing took place. The reporter, Foti Kallergis, asked Curry if she couldn’t believe a shooting had happened at her school.

She said, no. She could believe it.

“It’s been happening everywhere,” the girl said. “I’ve always kind of felt like eventually, it was going to happen here, too. I don’t know. I wasn’t surprised. I was just scared.”

According to the Washington Post’s count the shooting at Santa Fe high school is the 16th school shooting of 2018.


The shooter

The suspect shooter is 17-year-old named Dimitrios Pagourtzis, who was an honor roll student at the high school. The two guns the shooter used belonged to his father, who reportedly did not know they were in his son’s possession.

He has now confessed, according to police, to doing the shooting.

Pagourtzis has been charged with capital murder and aggravated assault on a peace officer.

Gov. Abbot said during a press conference that Pagourtzis, who had no previous criminal history, wrote in paper journals and also on his computer and cell phone, that he wanted to commit the shooting and then commit suicide afterward.

He told police later, that he did not shoot people he liked, because he wanted them to tell his story.

Father Stelios Sitaras of Assumption of the Virgin Mary Greek Orthodox Church in Galveston, Texas, told the AP, that the teenage shooting suspect was “a quiet boy. You would never think he would do anything like this.”

Other classmates who spoke with reporters had similar descriptions of Pagourtzis as a quiet but nice and generally caring kid, who used to play junior varsity football at the high school, was an avid video game player, but who had an avid interest in guns.

One local father said his son, who also played on one of the school’s football teams, told him that Pagourtzis had been bullied by some of the players and the coaches.

Reportedly, two more people were interviewed as “person’s of interest.” One of those interviewed reportedly had an unusual reaction to the shooting. The second may possibly have known something about the shooting advance. Eventually, however, it was determined that Pagourtzis acted completely alone.

According to officials, Pagourtzis posted a photo on his Facebook page of a long duster jacket emblazoned with a variety of symbols including the Iron Cross, a German military award associated with the Nazis, who last issued the award, and a hammer and sickle. He also posted a photo of a t-shirt with the message BORN TO KILL.

His family attended a Greek Orthodox church where the teenager was a member of a traditional Greek dance group.

New information suggests one of the first people shot was Shana Fisher, a girl Pagourtzis liked who did not reciprocate his affection.

Shana Fisher’s mother told the Los Angeles Times in a Facebook message that the boy “continued to get more aggressive and her daughter finally stood up to him and embarrassed him in class. Rodriguez said. ‘A week later he opens fire on everyone he didn’t like,’ she wrote.”

On Monday, after a weekend of morning for the students, the facility, the families, and the town Pagourtzis’ lawyer, Nicholas Poehl, disputed the story of an amorous rejection by one of his client’s victims, and referred instead to a “mental health history.”


The place

Santa Fe is a politically conservative city of around 12,200 people located outside of Galveston. The city was named for the Santa Fe Railroad, which at the time the town was founded, ran at its borders along Texas Route 6.


In response to Friday’s school shooting, students stage “lie in” outside congressional offices

The aftermath

On Friday afternoon a group of Montgomery County, MD, high school students entered the U.S. Capitol building demand that House Speaker Paul Ryan pass gun reform legislation. They laid down in the hallway outside Ryan’s office door. When Capitol police asked them to leave, most did but four reportedly remained. The police arrested the four, who were reportedly charged with misdemeanors.

At Santa Fe High School, district administrators posted the following message:

All schools in Santa Fe ISD will be closed on Monday, May 21st, and Tuesday, May 22, 2018. We will update you as soon as a plan for returning to school is finalized.

We know that our students and staff are going to need counseling to help them grieve. They also are going to need an outlet to share their fears and concerns. We will have additional school counselors and other support resources available to our SFISD students and staff. We will send additional information soon. Parents, please do not hesitate to ask for help if you notice a change in your child’s typical demeanor.

In the meantime, please continue to pray for our SFISD community as we grieve.

No mention of graduation.

Yet on Friday night, it turned out the Santa Fe’s baseball team decided they were going to play anyway, determined to stand up to violence and sorrow. The two players who were injured in the shooting attended the game to cheer their fellow team from the stands.


EDITOR’S NOTE: We have updated this story multiple times as appropriate.

64 Comments

  • Prayers go out to the families of the victims. Just goes to show that tragedies happen anywhere at anytime from the most impoverished communities to the most conservative communities. This is no left or right issue, its America’s issue.
    We have to look beyond a “wall” to fight the ills that are already embedded in America.

  • It’s a change in culture. What brought that about? Access to or amount of weapons, please, don’t even try. Our youth has been desensitized to violence, been taught to kill as much as possible to win in games, to not value human life unless it’s the bad guys life, better treat him right. The left defends, “DEFENDS” MS13 when Trump calls them animals, some would here as well. We overwhelmed here with the stories of gunned down cops or kids, citizens in our poorest neighborhoods, no and again the shooting fields of Chicago are blazing. Because they come last here and it’s that culture change that has given us more dead kid. Be proud.

    • Stop the blame game. Let’s start a conversation for solutions. Read the first post and allow it to sink in.
      Bullets don’t know the difference between left, right, black, brown, yellow or white. The terror is not from outside our borders but within.

      • “Let’s start a conversation for solutions.”

        The 2nd Amendment says a “well regulated militia” and I like the idea that only a “well regulated militia”–the Military, Police, et al–can have guns. Some exceptions, of course–the Grandmother who lives alone in a cabin out in the boondocks, etc.–but the idea that, generally, guns should be confined to a “well regulated militia” sure sounds good to me.

    • Sure Fire:

      Because law enforcement response times are too long out in the boondocks. Anybody that can demonstrate that kind of vulnerability would be exempt from my idea of confining the use of guns to a “well regulated Militia.”

  • The left doesn’t want a conversation and the silliness of people like Celeste want you believe you can teach evil people to be good by being nice to them. That you can magically create a law that will make bad guys give up their. You’re functionally retarded if you believe that and a coward if you give into these traitors to what’s best for our country.

    • You appear to be so fixated and distracted by the left and by the editor of this blog, that you’re blinded by any reasonable dialogue. Hopefully you’re not a spokesperson for any organization. Can we as cops and concerned parents come to the table without the personal anger and attitude. Shootings are a reality for all.

  • If you think there’s reasonable dialogue to be had with the left point out their leaders that have shown they want that dialogue and what ideas of theirs you’re in agreement with or where you think there’s middle ground. Understand now that they were just offered a DACA deal by this administration and said no because they didn’t like the enhanced border security that went along with it. Show me one issue that most “LEO’S”, support that the far left that’s taken over the Democratic Party line up with. As for the woman who runs this site, she is anything but a friend to law enforcement, and she has lied about putting up more positive cop stories here. She doesn’t respond when I post about it, why do you have an issue with it? I hate the left, I’m against everything they stand for today and they make cops lives more dangerous to perform and the public more at risk with their actions. This is way more than just about me.
    Hey Celeste, post next time you’ll be on a talk show, I’ll call and debate you. That would be great.

  • Accept things the way they are including more dead kids or work for change in the culture. You pussies on the left do nothing but talk, can’t keep up, I understand that. 334 dead in school shootings in the last 30 years, how’s that compare to Chicago in one year? White boys responsible there CF, Reckoning, Still Laughing…Leo? Go ahead, try to make some point you can actually articulate and beat me up with. Facts don’t care about your feelings, Ben knows best, and I certainly don’t.

    • Sure Fire, are you willing to raise YOUR taxes to pay for all those people you want to throw in jail? Please let me know.

      • Yes. Saving lives by keeping bad guys in jail isn’t a money issue to me. You don’t let real bad guys out because it’s crowded. Too bad, build more though there are other options.

  • The Left. No sustainable agendas. No solutions, just complaints and critiques. Never Trump, but no better solutions. ZERO fiscal solutions except have the hard working Americans pay for entitlements and open borders. Cops are the Core Problem Issues in the communities. Decriminalize most felonies. Early release. No concept of rehabilitation or accountability.

    The Left has gone mad and are taking the country right along with it. California is lost cause. Rampant crime, drugs and needles everywhere, homelessness that the Left could give a flying fuck about.

    The fact that BLM and the ACLU are even acronyms tells the whole story.

    • The NRA is an acronym as well. The right believes in unicorns and the Tooth Fairy, which explains their cartoonish world view. Nary a solution they offer, unless it involves dragging the nation back to 1950.

  • LATBG. Here’s the difference. The Conservatives on here offer what we feel to be solutions and ways to sustain them. You may disagree with them, but nevertheless, we offer them.

    You offer next to nothing. The very few you do throw out there are not backed up by ANY sustainable plan. You’re all idealistic fools who are completely void of any reality.

    What you’re seeing in most parts of California, Chicago and Baltimore is indisputable proof what your Horseshit creates.

    Congrats!!

  • And the protection the NRA provides will be what prevents your Horseshit from enveloping the entire country.

    • The very fact that you’re still in California says a lot. There’s Idaho and Canada. Even if you’re not retired is no reason not get on your donkey and leave. Typical blowhard.

  • Unicorns Tooth Fairy?? What does that even Fucking mean??

    You’ve heard solutions by us on Crime and Punishment, the economy, Immigration, entitlements, welfare etc etc. You offer Jack Shit!!!

    How do you explain the historic jobless rate for Blacks and Hispanics??? Before you say the wasted 8 years of NoBama, I’ll tell you the very provable reasons. Deregulation, Reduced Taxes and the resulting Trickle Down. It worked for Reagan and it’s working for Trump. The Dems will ruin it, like Carter and Clinton did, and the cycle of the Left keeping people on their Plantations will continue.

  • Hmm… the FBI and DOJ coulda no wrong when it came to realing in out of control local police under the O’Bsma administration. Yet the ATF supported by the DOJ gave weapons to the cartels and lost track of them. The country exploded when politicians and the media went off half-cocked and blamed local law enforcement for all the ills of the inner city and a of a segment of society THEY let down, took for granted and could care two cents about.

    Fast forward to today, when we have a non-politician elected as President by the people under a process the constitution outlines, yet we have members of our society hell bent on bringing down the leader of the country they live in and pledge allegiance to? The premier law enforcement watch dog everyone put their faith in has shown its true politically-biased-agenda-pushing-colors. The left can keep on talking out of the side of its mouth, avoiding facts and twisting words but Americans can see through BS. Just because you try to scream the loudest, and repeat mid-informative ndoesn’t magically impart believability and credibility to

    So let Hilliary keep on insulting those hard working folks between the coast, let states like CA and New York keep going against the grain, keep on insulting folks with Christisn faith and allow the media to keep on spreading their biased filled propaganda. The economy is humming along, Black unemployment is at an all time low, and the USA actually has standing amongst the leaders of the world after eight years. President Trump won’t even have to lift a finger to get re-elected.

    • Speaking of Christians, we are aware of biblical teachings concerning the Antichrist and his followers in the last days. We are there.

    • The Right was hell bent on bringing Obama down all to no avail. The right viewed it as a double dose of hatred for eight years even with landslides wins. The fact that he was Black further fueled their hatred. You can lie and deny all you want but it won’t change the fact. How dare a Black man be POTUS. It’s in the history books. Read it

  • Ironic that the story of murdered high school students morphs into race and political posturing. It’s sad but it also shows the true color of individuals who present their personal agendas in the midst of a national tragedy. No excuses for it, period.

    • Isn’t this what the anti-gun lobby does every chance they can get. The only reason they are somewhat quiet this time is due to the fact the monster used a shotgun and hand (gun which caused massive the carnage), not an “assault weapon”. Doesn’t fit the mantra-like anti-gun narrative they’ve been so quick to jump on.

  • I guarantee you I have written more on kids being murdered than any of you here including Celeste. I don’t save my thoughts though for only school shootings. My first post said it’s the change in culture that’s brought about the carnage, I stand by it. We don’t get our priorities in order culturally there’s no hope.

  • John Q. You couldn’t be more wrong. Once Obama was elected, there was no torrid of Impeachment or media smashing him every day no matter what.

    We called Obama out on his failed policies, but 99% of people wished him the utmost success, because his success was their success. Obama was a failure because of his Lefty policies that have been and always will be unsuccessful. The color of his skin had nothing to do with it. Time to knock the chip off and research history. Maybe take a class or two on economics. Maybe a Political Science Class. The excuses are getting exhausting.

  • P.S…. If Colin Powell would have run for POTUS when everyone was trying to convince him to run, he would have won by the largest landslide in American history.

    The race card is torn and if you keep playing it, the true victims of racism will no get the treatment and validation they deserve.

    • No “Ownership”, You play the race card with your slight of words and “plantation” banter. Not long ago you were called out by a commentor who refused to respond to your silliness as you stereotyped blacks. Save your excuses for someone who doesn’t know any better. Anyone who follows WLA can read right through you. It’s obvious.

  • The story Celeste put up had political posturing in it Factoid or did you miss the student protesters arrested rea the gun control issue she threw in there?
    Celeste is a pro BLM, empty the prisons, reduce felonies to misdemeanors, demilitarize the police person as she shows constantly and makes no attempt to hide that.
    Cops, most here anyway, know she’s the enemy of law enforcement but not enough get the bigger message that she and people like her are an enemy to the communities they want to send the bad guys back to. That’s where the future victims live that they don’t give a damn about.

  • John Q; I don’t Stereotype shit. I speak directly. I despise seeing the race card played when it has no bearing. I hate that more young black men idolize black Rappers, Athletes and Actors before looking up to black Professors, business owners and civil servants.

    I hate that black civic leaders and elected officials have tricked their constituents into actually believing the majority of cops are racist.

    I hate the fact that Democrats have created generations of welfare recipients. Ask yourself this, “why are election cycles the only time Democrats cater to black communities ??????

    So John Q, stay on your Plantation Row the Left has planted for you. Let the blacks who don’t drink the Coolaid lead the way. IE Ben Carson, Alan West, Condelezza Rice, Diamond & Silk and the 10’s of Thousands that actually have knocked the chip off their shoulders.

    • Kanya West has issues, but his statement regarding slavery was taken out of its full context. Slavery did not last 400 years in the USA, and if someone is still living with the mentality as if it did, they have bigger problems.

      Many independent thinking Blacks, have learned to recognize the take-for granted, keep-them down policies of the far left sect of the Democratic Party . Those folks voted for the candidate whose ideals were best for cage country, their family and posterity…Donald Trump.

        • Oh…spelling Kanye West. He’s a black (African American) entertainer, producer, celebrity that’s married to Kimberly Kardashian. Kim Kardashian is the daughter of Kris and the late Armenian-American lawyers Robert Kardashian.

          Let me know if you find any errors or need clarification?

          • You mean the same Kanye West that recieved a black history lesson and reality check by Van Lathan on TMZ.

  • Gangster took his kid to ER last week, said he fell. Broken bone in arm or maybe shoulder. X-rays show lots of healed injuries in this 4 yr old. Boy won’t stop screaming and exam shows severe burns to genitals, legs etc. Cops get him, wife shows them video on his cell where he beat boy and lowered him into large pot of boiling water. Wife is now hiding from his gang and family…#GANGANIMALCULTURE.

    • Oh…I’m sure the young man can get psychological help, government side and medication to make him all fight. Jail is not going to help him at all. Per the activist liberal judges and the Democratic model, putting the “victim of society”, in jail would be cruel and unusual punishment due to overcrowding and cost the state to much money.

      Oh…the child is just a young victim…who really cares about him.

  • Now Now fellas. The father was trying to get his life together. Maybe a Foster Child or something. He was probably harassed by the Evil Man in Uniform on a weekly basis. And the bus he needed to catch to pick up his SSI check was constantly running late.

    Give the guy a break

  • Remember, Celeste, CF, Still Laughing and the other Leftists on here only care about such horrific abuse if a cop, Probation Officer or social worker can be held somehow responsible.

  • More change of culture thanks to the efforts of the left is our almost daily airing of pursuits and today’s was something to see. No fear of any real
    punishment thanks to the “non-violent” nature of the crime and think this fuckhead won’t be right back at it when out, maybe really hurt or kill someone next time. People like Celeste would rather chance that then make them do real time.

  • At the time of the killing of a Baltimore County police officer, the 16 yr old suspect was AWOL from house arrest in juvenile system in Baltimore. 4 arrests for car theft over about 5 months. Stole car while in program in Montgomery Co in March
    This is the new “criminal justice reform” sweeping the land where criminals are given umpteen breaks, probation, diversion pgms., parole, etc.. until they kill someone. RIP Officer Caption.

    None of you care about this only about these poor kids as more cops die.

    Fuck you.

    Questions?

  • Baltimore County Police Off Amy Caprio, killed Tuesday when, investigators say, 16 yr old admits he drove vehicle at her.

  • This article definitely took a turn, however there is nothing that can be said to console or lessen the impact on those affected. I think the dialogue generated, though maybe not seen by anyone who can effect change, is reflective of the views of many in our society who are getting feed up with both, do-nothing, hand-wringing political parties.

    Continuing to make guns the issue not only neglects the fundamental underlying root cause of this violent behavior, but ignores what’s broken. This is a social, societal problem of epic proportions that has changed the norm of what is deemed acceptable behavior and response.

    No religion in school, accountability for ones own actions, respect for others, moral standard or responsibility to anyone or anything, breeds chaos and leads to apathetic individuals who are numb. We have created a generation that can care less about anything or anyone besides themselves and their Facebook friends.

    If your not taught how to be a decent human being and member of the humanities, held to any standard or held accountable for violating rules/laws, how can we magically expect folks to do the right thing?

    All the social scientist, philosophers, big-brain thinkers, realist and pragmatic psychological practitioners need to sit down and really ponder what will happen if we do don’t fix things now, how to change it and where we will be if our course is not corrected.

    Our “leaders” are clueless hacks that pander, and simply bend like reeds in the wind depending on their own individual self-serving special interest and bias.

    A paradigm shift/correction needs to happen before its to blame. History has shown a pattern of “Great Civilizations” imploding by their own hand from within.

    • ….both, do nothing, hand wringing political parties. Wow, what a turn. In an earlier post you cited “liberal judges” and the democratic model…..
      Make up your mind and pick a side or are you talking out of your ass. Be consistent in your beliefs and get rid of your banality.

      • “Pick a side”…I guess your mindset represent all that is wrong and dysfunctional in our society and politic today. No meeting if the minds, or compromise, or civil discussion. Instead, just dig in, close your mind, and throw insults. I guess people like you are like old dogs and leopards, they can’t learn new tricks or change their spots.

        Oh…I hope my “banality” wasn’t too much for your one-sided mind to bear.

  • Lets Hear More; Outstanding!!

    Best part was what you said about “ignoring what’s broken.” Very well said. Dealing with the Core Issues is something the Left is incapable of doing.

    And if you read the Lefties response to your post, you will see all they have are insults and immature snipes. No real retort or solutions.

  • Meanwhile in Chicago…

    It has now been 38 months since #Chicago last logged a day w/ out a shooting and/or a homicide. Since 2/28/15: 2,101 killed, 9,577 wounded.

    SJW’s Do Not Care

  • Yes, folks, Let’s Hear More is correct, the lack of religion is what is causing these problems. What happened to the good ‘ol days when most folks wanted a great, white Christian nation. The KKK were god-fearing Christians. What you mean is Christian religion. We have more Muslims in the country than ever, same with Hindus, Sikhs (yes, they are different from Hindus), and Buddhist. I suspect you miss the days when they were all Christians.

    Not held accountable? Can we even say that when we arrest and imprison in unprecedented numbers, and we throw in a few innocent folks, to boot. We have the most people in prison of any industrialized nation.

    And, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Societal problem of epic proportions? Crime is at an all time low. Even in cities like Chicago were the crime rate is relatively high and increasing, it is still lower than the peak in the 90s. You can long for the days of white might, of good ‘ole christian values when coloreds, as you probably called them, women and gays knew their place, but I like the present better. No doubt you think homosexuality an abomination, as the good books says. Be honest.

    Ownership, Diamond and Silk? Are you kidding me. You forgot, Frederick Douglas, whom Trump said is up to good things, Clarence Thomas and Steppin Fetchit. And, we cannot forget all of the ones that came on slave ships in search of better life, as the great Ben Carson says.

    Let us be honest, people with guns kill people. Do take the gun out of that equation, my fellow cowboys. And, stop your racist rants. I do not care how you couch them, you are a racist bunch of LEO cowboys.

    • CF…..I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. The crap that spews forth from your perverted psyche is like an assault on one’s intelligence. Who mentioned anything about Christianity or Islam in the prior posts……Who?

      Oh….and to cherry pick the 90’s as a point of comparison regarding crime statistics in Chicago, reminds me of the old phrase…”watch me pull a rabbit out identity ass”. Why didn’t you pick the time of the Crusades for that matter.

      Cherry picking information to try and support a WEAK argument, and calling people racist just because your argument is WEAK…..definitely right out-of the loony leftist playbook of “distract, deflect and dodge and destroy”. Again, just because you scream, throw temper tantrums on the floor and lie, doesn’t mean the adults in the room will roll over, cower in fear and let you get your way….child.

      Seek out professional help….you need it.

      • While both of you are extreme in your comments, neither of you are completely wrong or right as valid views are equally shared by readers.
        To totally dismiss each other adds no strength to either opinionated argument.

        More of a 415 verbal than anything else.

        • Agreed…come together, negotiate, round-table, concession, compromise…..all terms that don’t exist in today’s climate. It’s either my way or now way has become the mantra. I, like many was taught “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”, “pause and think before you speak” and “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me”. These old sayings have (had) a lot of truth, however when you realize not everyone went to the same “school as you” so to speak, you sometimes have to stop playing by the “queens rules of etiquette “, get down and dirty, and meet people on their same level.

          The new age term “words matter” comes to mind as evident by the ease with which CF and others so freely spew insults, call people racists, fabricate fictious what-if scenarios out of then air and “custom tailor facts” to support weak arguements.

          They’re is a time and place to take the high ground, but sometimes you just have to step down in the mud and “brawl”.

          • Ok…..so no holds barred, no whining or crying or complaining when it comes to the opponent’s style.

    • Nobody said no holds barred…that’s just the style CF adopted and those are the “de-facto” rules set by his/her comments.

      Let’s not try and feign outrage and disgust after the doors been swung wide open.

      Simply, if ones take a position and wants to spew lies, launch vile personal attacks against people, make wildly false statements and try to pass opinion off as fact, they should be prepared to be challenged.

  • CF: Hey brother I bet you support the kneeling of NFL players during the National Anthem also don’t you? Sure they have a first Amendment right to do so. And I as a consumer I have a right to boycott their games and not watch the games on TV. With no income there goes their salaries and benefits….and the NFL goes down the tube…and they protest themselves right out of a job. As a consumer, I want to keep politics out of sports. Its where I go to be entertained to forget about the worlds ills for a couple of hours. They can protest on their dime and their time. What say you CF?

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